EPT2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 394
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:14 Salteador Neo wrote: This year Messi achieved some nice stuff actually. Most goals ever in liga and cl. WC finals and (ehem) mvp. And in total he is only like...2 or 3 goals? behind CR with around 7 less penalties. And of course more assists. If he won this year it would be less of a fraud than last year. But he won't because he does not deserve it. The bias is strong. "Most goals ever in liga and cl. " This is a lifetime achievement, not a 2014 achievement. Ronaldo had most CL goals in 2013-2014 (17) and La Liga 2013-2014 (31). "WC finals and (ehem) mvp. " Clearly undeserved MVP there. "nd in total he is only like...2 or 3 goals? behind CR with around 7 less penalties. And of course more assists." 3 goals behind with 7 more games. So that's .83 goals per app, and .339 assists per app for Messi, vs 1 goal per app and .345 assists per app for Ronaldo. As for why Neuer most likely wont win player of the year: variance in GK quality has far fewer influence in the outcome of a team than variance of quality in a forward. Hence the huge difference in transaction values and the lack of individual awards for goal keepers. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18772 Posts
Spain won 2 EC and one WC with Casillas who isn't any good (with the ball). Real DESTROYED the best Bayern side probably ever with Casillas. Dortmund won two German championships vs Bayern who are/were in every way superior to Dortmund. Argentina got to the final of the WC with a gk who didn't play together with the team at all. I doubt Courtouis, Cech or Hart are any good with the ball. Yet they were all vital gks in their winning campaigns. Neuer was one of the key players for Germany in the WC yes, but not because of his "abilities with the ball" but because he is very good at predicting run paths of players. Also his body (tallness) allows him to make these risky plays Where did this myth appear from? | ||
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themartinez
Sweden254 Posts
On December 02 2014 05:04 sharkie wrote: Why do people think a gk need to be good on the ball? That baffles me so much. Spain won 2 EC and one WC with Casillas who isn't any good (with the ball). Real DESTROYED the best Bayern side probably ever with Casillas. Dortmund won two German championships vs Bayern who are/were in every way superior to Dortmund. Argentina got to the final of the WC with a gk who didn't play together with the team at all. I doubt Courtouis, Cech or Hart are any good with the ball. Yet they were all vital gks in their winning campaigns. Neuer was one of the key players for Germany in the WC yes, but not because of his "abilities with the ball" but because he is very good at predicting run paths of players. Also his body (tallness) allows him to make these risky plays Where did this myth appear from? I do not know anyone who said a gk HAVE to be good on the ball, HOWEVER it is always a advantage | ||
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daSilvaz
809 Posts
On December 02 2014 04:56 Micro_Jackson wrote: I really disagree with that. Dont get me wrong Buffon was and is still great but he is a goal line keeper with great reflexes. Outside the box he relied on his great speed. But he is a 90s goalie which means he isnt great with the ball on his foot. I made an argument in the past that Oliver Kahn, a real legend would not make the roster of 2014 german team because he isnt good enough on the ball which is at least 50% of Neuers play. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. Keep in mind while Neuer is a part of maybe the best BM ever, Buffon was in Juve's worst and as dumb as it is discussing individual awards on a colective sport, that also counts to how good one looks or not. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On December 02 2014 05:03 warding wrote: The bias is strong. "Most goals ever in liga and cl. " This is a lifetime achievement, not a 2014 achievement. Ronaldo had most CL goals in 2013-2014 (17) and La Liga 2013-2014 (31). "WC finals and (ehem) mvp. " Clearly undeserved MVP there. "nd in total he is only like...2 or 3 goals? behind CR with around 7 less penalties. And of course more assists." 3 goals behind with 7 more games. So that's .83 goals per app, and .339 assists per app for Messi, vs 1 goal per app and .345 assists per app for Ronaldo. As for why Neuer most likely wont win player of the year: variance in GK quality has far fewer influence in the outcome of a team than variance of quality in a forward. Hence the huge difference in transaction values and the lack of individual awards for goal keepers. I don't really care about stats and records since messi's superiority is obvious to the naked eye. If you want to not have double standards though you need to not count cristiano's cl 17 goal record, since half of it belongs to the previous season. Messi deserves it much more though. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On December 02 2014 04:35 daSilvaz wrote: Funny i never saw such campaigns over a GOD called Gianluigi Buffon and was at his prime much better than Neuer, guess being german has it's perks. Having said that, these kind of awards are dumb as fuck. I agree 100%. I have said previously that buffon is an all time great. Neuer has yet to prove that. The only reason I said neuer after messi is that I don't want cristiano winning it, lol. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On December 02 2014 05:04 sharkie wrote: Why do people think a gk need to be good on the ball? That baffles me so much. Spain won 2 EC and one WC with Casillas who isn't any good (with the ball). Real DESTROYED the best Bayern side probably ever with Casillas. Dortmund won two German championships vs Bayern who are/were in every way superior to Dortmund. Argentina got to the final of the WC with a gk who didn't play together with the team at all. I doubt Courtouis, Cech or Hart are any good with the ball. Yet they were all vital gks in their winning campaigns. Neuer was one of the key players for Germany in the WC yes, but not because of his "abilities with the ball" but because he is very good at predicting run paths of players. Also his body (tallness) allows him to make these risky plays Where did this myth appear from? It just adds another dimension to your gameplan. You can add half a duzend more triangles on the field. Messi or Ronaldo arent a necessity to win but you rather want them on your team then dont have them. On December 02 2014 06:07 Steveling wrote: I agree 100%. I have said previously that buffon is an all time great. Neuer has yet to prove that. The only reason I said neuer after messi is that I don't want cristiano winning it, lol. What exacly does Neuer has to do to prove it what he hasnt done yet? | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:18 Micro_Jackson wrote: It just adds another dimension to your gameplan. You can add half a duzend more triangles on the field. Messi or Ronaldo arent a necessity to win but you rather want them on your team then dont have them. What exacly does Neuer has to do to prove it what he hasnt done yet? He was never the hero that stopped wave after wave of attacks. He was never the titanium wall deflecting shot after shot while his defence was in shambles. There hasn't being a single trophy any of his teams won, which you could point at neuer and say "man, he carried us here". And take a look at that | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Mensol
14536 Posts
Just leaving this video here. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Imagine cristiano or suarez in these counter attacks, sure goals. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
Neuer should win Ballond'Or, he deserves more than anyone. And Robben should've been in top three instead Cristiano Ronaldo. He carried Netherlands so hard. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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daSilvaz
809 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:35 Mensol wrote: :D okay. Neuer should win Ballond'Or, he deserves more than anyone. And Robben should've been in top three instead Cristiano Ronaldo. He carried Netherlands so hard. And he and Neuer both were destroyed by Cristiano and his Real, ppl keep talking about wc acomplishments but id like to see what they would say if Neuer had Postigas for teamates...zzzzz | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:32 Mensol wrote: Just leaving this video here. The only impressive thing there is the kick to set up the counter attack. The rest is just risky play vs a weak opponent. How was flapping at that cross a "highlight"?! | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
These werent just risky plays. All of these were perfectly calculated and executed plays. Germany would've lost this game if they had any other GK than Neuer, this includes Buffon/Casillas/Kahn etc.etc. in their primes. One can say that Neuer is the Lev Yashin of the modern football with the style he brings. Thats why he deserves to win ballondOr. In my time at United, it is probably the finest display of goalkeeping against us. I am sure there have been other feats but tonight I saw a very good one. This comes from Alex Ferguson when Schalke played semi final against Manchester United. You can watch his performance from here. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On December 02 2014 07:05 Mensol wrote: Weak opponent? Algeria? They gave a better fight than both Brazil and France to Germany. These werent just risky plays. All of these were perfectly calculated and executed plays. Germany would've lost this game if they had any other GK than Neuer, this includes Buffon/Casillas/Kahn etc.etc. in their primes. One can say that Neuer is the Lev Yashin of the modern football with the style he brings. Thats why he deserves to win ballondOr. This comes from Alex Ferguson when Schalke played semi final against Manchester United. You can watch his performance from here. That's insulting. It's also quite wrong, yashin's play was nothing like a sweeper. He's btw the only keeper to win the ballon. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:25 Steveling wrote: He was never the hero that stopped wave after wave of attacks. He was never the titanium wall deflecting shot after shot while his defence was in shambles. There hasn't being a single trophy any of his teams won, which you could point at neuer and say "man, he carried us here". And take a look at that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY9t8n2b_w4 You clearly missed the Porto and ManU games when he was with Schalke. You are right he didnt won a title on his own. But neither did Messi nor Ronaldo. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
But we are talking about keepers, other keepers have carried their teams to trophies, neuer hasn't. | ||
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