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2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 391

Forum Index > Sports
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Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
November 30 2014 18:04 GMT
#7801
Another terrible mistake from BVB's defence...

E.Frankurt 2-0 BVB
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 18:12:34
November 30 2014 18:06 GMT
#7802
Playing against Dortmund is so easy. You just need to wait.
Frankfurts 2nd goalie is amazing.
I want to see Langerak.

Weidenfeller is not Neuer. Ginter is ... not used to a goalie trying to be Neuer. http://gfycat.com/DisfiguredIllinformedBobwhite
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
November 30 2014 18:12 GMT
#7803
Awesome BVB
Get rid of everyone on the field and put 11 random people that live in Dortmund in your starting 11. Cant be worse than those retards that are playing atm
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
November 30 2014 18:25 GMT
#7804
You know i was saying that Klopp will continue at BVB till his contract expires but he may take a break just like Thomas Tuschel after this season. Tuschel to become new BVB manager ofc

He really need rest his brain. It's obvious that he's tired.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 18:29:14
November 30 2014 18:26 GMT
#7805
But don't worry guys! This isn't a bad team! It's just a 3 month run of bad form!

What a fucking joke. There's nothing that can be said. We're just fucking terrible top to bottom and there isn't a single part of the game that we do well. It's not luck, it's not form, none of those bullshit excuses. This team just isn't good. The only people that earned their spot on the pitch tonight were Aubameyang and Gundogan. How Klopp thought that starting Mkhi or Ginter was a good idea is beyond me. Those two actively make this team worse with everything they do.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
November 30 2014 18:35 GMT
#7806
On December 01 2014 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:
But don't worry guys! This isn't a bad team! It's just a 3 month run of bad form!

What a fucking joke. There's nothing that can be said. We're just fucking terrible top to bottom and there isn't a single part of their game that they do well. It's not luck, it's not form, none of those bullshit excuses. This team just isn't good. The only people that earned their spot on the pitch tonight were Aubameyang and Gundogan. How Klopp thought that starting Mkhi or Ginter was a good idea is beyond me. Those two actively make this team worse with everything they do.

This is the problem: after we hit rock-bottom now, you really have to question Zorc/Klopp for buying the players they did. And this is not a butthurt BVB fan speaking. This is someone who is really pissed but tries to be reasonable (even though that doesnt work all the time). Ginter is just aweful. I have no idea who thought he was a good buy but without him would have 3,4 or 5 goals less on the negative side. Ramos/Immobile arent even worth 2,6 millions yet alone 26 millions. Ramos CAN do ok but not really more. Micky is pretty good but shows it only 10% of the time. Gündogan is still out of form and i dont even know why Jojic is on the bench.
Its not going up with this team unless some players step up their game BIG time or Zorc/Klopp find a decent defender and someone who doesnt need 10000 attempts to score a goal.

After playday 7 or so i was sure they wouldnt end the half-season on place 13-18. On playday 10 i thought they would atleast be place 8 or so in the end. Now i dont even know if we see them in the same leagur anymore next season
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
November 30 2014 18:47 GMT
#7807
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Rokomish
Profile Joined March 2011
United States68 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 19:21:55
November 30 2014 18:53 GMT
#7808
Pirlo just scored an absolute screamer (from open play, no less) with the last kick of the game to win. Pace fades with age, but class is forever. What a stud.

https://vine.co/v/OnPFpL5gaMT
marooder diedie
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 18:59:17
November 30 2014 18:56 GMT
#7809
On December 01 2014 03:35 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:
But don't worry guys! This isn't a bad team! It's just a 3 month run of bad form!

What a fucking joke. There's nothing that can be said. We're just fucking terrible top to bottom and there isn't a single part of their game that they do well. It's not luck, it's not form, none of those bullshit excuses. This team just isn't good. The only people that earned their spot on the pitch tonight were Aubameyang and Gundogan. How Klopp thought that starting Mkhi or Ginter was a good idea is beyond me. Those two actively make this team worse with everything they do.

This is the problem: after we hit rock-bottom now, you really have to question Zorc/Klopp for buying the players they did. And this is not a butthurt BVB fan speaking. This is someone who is really pissed but tries to be reasonable (even though that doesnt work all the time). Ginter is just aweful. I have no idea who thought he was a good buy but without him would have 3,4 or 5 goals less on the negative side. Ramos/Immobile arent even worth 2,6 millions yet alone 26 millions. Ramos CAN do ok but not really more. Micky is pretty good but shows it only 10% of the time. Gündogan is still out of form and i dont even know why Jojic is on the bench.
Its not going up with this team unless some players step up their game BIG time or Zorc/Klopp find a decent defender and someone who doesnt need 10000 attempts to score a goal.

After playday 7 or so i was sure they wouldnt end the half-season on place 13-18. On playday 10 i thought they would atleast be place 8 or so in the end. Now i dont even know if we see them in the same leagur anymore next season


I made a pretty in-depth post about this in the CL thread, but BVB's problem was that their transfers over the past two years have been almost a complete bust.

Aubameyang and Sokratis are acceptable transfers. Both are ok, but aren't star-level players. They have off-matches relatively often but they still contribute and are very good. Aubameyang is an extremely one-dimensional player (speed and middling finishing) and Sokratis makes some questionable positional decisions, so they can't be the facilitators of a winning team. They need a good cast around them.

Ramos, Immobile, and Dong Won Ji are unknowns. We haven't seen any of the latter and the two former don't get enough playing time to make a definitive decision. What we have seen of them says that they are quality finishers but they can't create chances (I criticized Lewandowski about this to an extent in the past, but he's just so fucking good that he makes up for it, whereas these two don't).

Ginter and Mkhi are just abject failures. There is literally nothing positive to say about Ginter's play at this point, and while Mkhi had/has a lot of potential and had an OK season last year, he's a complete liability on the pitch. He makes terrible passes, takes far too many touches on the ball (resulting in him losing the ball all the time), and he can't shoot to save his fucking life. If he actually gets it on target then he's accomplished something, and him actually scoring is like seeing a fucking unicorn. I have absolutely no clue why the fuck he starts.

BVB made a shitload of moves to try to shore up losing Lewandowski and Gotze, and didn't make any quality signings anywhere else. There is zero depth in the defense and the midfield could use some serious work as well; Kehl is getting old, Bender is fairly invisible most of the time, and Grosskreutz isn't half as good as people ever thought he was (he's a Jack of All Trades that was buoyed by having a great team around him; his best quality is that he doesn't make huge mistakes). Even Weidenfeller isn't that reliable because people have realized he's fucking terrible at saving shots that go low; he lets in an embarrassing amount of shots 5-hole (through the legs) or around his ankles.

This team made a complete bust and wasted a lot of money in the last two transfer windows and the only way they don't get relegated is if they make some big fucking moves during the winter window. They are undoubtedly and definitely the worst team in the Bundesliga at the moment and it's simply because the team lacks quality; all of the potential that they bought has translated to jack squat on the pitch.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
November 30 2014 19:06 GMT
#7810
On December 01 2014 03:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 03:35 BlackCompany wrote:
On December 01 2014 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:
But don't worry guys! This isn't a bad team! It's just a 3 month run of bad form!

What a fucking joke. There's nothing that can be said. We're just fucking terrible top to bottom and there isn't a single part of their game that they do well. It's not luck, it's not form, none of those bullshit excuses. This team just isn't good. The only people that earned their spot on the pitch tonight were Aubameyang and Gundogan. How Klopp thought that starting Mkhi or Ginter was a good idea is beyond me. Those two actively make this team worse with everything they do.

This is the problem: after we hit rock-bottom now, you really have to question Zorc/Klopp for buying the players they did. And this is not a butthurt BVB fan speaking. This is someone who is really pissed but tries to be reasonable (even though that doesnt work all the time). Ginter is just aweful. I have no idea who thought he was a good buy but without him would have 3,4 or 5 goals less on the negative side. Ramos/Immobile arent even worth 2,6 millions yet alone 26 millions. Ramos CAN do ok but not really more. Micky is pretty good but shows it only 10% of the time. Gündogan is still out of form and i dont even know why Jojic is on the bench.
Its not going up with this team unless some players step up their game BIG time or Zorc/Klopp find a decent defender and someone who doesnt need 10000 attempts to score a goal.

After playday 7 or so i was sure they wouldnt end the half-season on place 13-18. On playday 10 i thought they would atleast be place 8 or so in the end. Now i dont even know if we see them in the same leagur anymore next season


I made a pretty in-depth post about this in the CL thread, but BVB's problem was that their transfers over the past two years have been almost a complete bust.

Aubameyang and Sokratis are acceptable transfers. Both are ok, but aren't star-level players. They have off-matches relatively often but they still contribute and are very good. Aubameyang is an extremely one-dimensional player (speed and middling finishing) and Sokratis makes some questionable positional decisions, so they can't be the facilitators of a winning team. They need a good cast around them.

Ramos, Immobile, and Dong Won Ji are unknowns. We haven't seen any of the latter and the two former don't get enough playing time to make a definitive decision. What we have seen of them says that they are quality finishers but they can't create chances (I criticized Lewandowski about this to an extent in the past, but he's just so fucking good that he makes up for it, whereas these two don't).

Ginter and Mkhi are just abject failures. There is literally nothing positive to say about Ginter's play at this point, and while Mkhi had/has a lot of potential and had an OK season last year, he's a complete liability on the pitch. He makes terrible passes, takes far too many touches on the ball (resulting in him losing the ball all the time), and he can't shoot to save his fucking life. If he actually gets it on target then he's accomplished something, and him actually scoring is like seeing a fucking unicorn. I have absolutely no clue why the fuck he starts.

BVB made a shitload of moves to try to shore up losing Lewandowski and Gotze, and didn't make any quality signings anywhere else. There is zero depth in the defense and the midfield could use some serious work as well; Kehl is getting old, Bender is fairly invisible most of the time, and Grosskreutz isn't half as good as people ever thought he was (he's a Jack of All Trades that was buoyed by having a great team around him; his best quality is that he doesn't make huge mistakes). Even Weidenfeller isn't that reliable because people have realized he's fucking terrible at saving shots that go low; he lets in an embarrassing amount of shots 5-hole (through the legs) or around his ankles.

This team made a complete bust and wasted a lot of money in the last two transfer windows and the only way they don't get relegated is if they make some big fucking moves during the winter window. They are undoubtedly and definitely the worst team in the Bundesliga at the moment and it's simply because the team lacks quality; all of the potential that they bought has translated to jack squat on the pitch.


Sound about right and is about what i think aswell. Only difference i have is that i rate Sokratis higher, i think he is actually pretty good (i agree about his off games though).
They need to do something during the winter. This team has prooved it doesnt cut it in the Bundesliga. And their CL run will end as soon as any team is smart enough to just defend and wait. Or if they meet a monster like Real Madrid who is so good that Dortmunds aweful defending will make them score 5,6 or 7 times.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
November 30 2014 19:19 GMT
#7811
This is more then anything a psychological thing.
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 20:09:44
November 30 2014 19:59 GMT
#7812
I have to agree with both of you Micro and Stratos. For the longest time I would've said that it's completely psychological but being sad right now there are a few others thoughts.

1. Of course it's hard to do during a WC year because the preparation time is a lot shorter but we had to change our system. Last year it did not matter if a ball was 1m too high, too short or too long because Lewandowski is a monster at getting those balls. We knew that he wasn't replaceable that's why we chose not to sell him but instead of using this additional year to integrate a second attacker we scouted even longer and apparently chose to buy a player we already scouted for years. I'm not going to blame Immobile for his playstyle. He can be deadly in the right system but we aren't providing that. Maybe we never can because earning ourself so much respect the opponents stand really deep which is deadly to Immobile's approach.

We heard that he's young and he has to learn alot but that I don't agree with. He cost ~20million €. He fights, he scores when he's 1on1 against the goalie. He's like Mario Gomez. That's who you bought and that is what you have to build your system around when you want him to score.
The transfer might be brilliant from a marketing perspective: Hey look we can spend money, we are so attractive that the best Serie A scorer wants to play for us but that's it.

2. Klopp, totally understandable, lacks cojones when it comes to the starting 11. I know that we need to establish a team of 11 working together because all the injuries made us change the team again and again which lead us to instability but the guys he did chose seem to lack airiness. When Maruoka came on against Mainz I read a lot of positive remarks about him. Götze, Durm they played in our 2nd team and when they got their chance they gave it their everything. There was nothing too think about it. If they fail it's back to the 2nd team but they had a chance to get into the first team. Sure our 2nd team isn't doing too hot either at the moment but guys like Maruoka or Gyau have some first team experience and if they have a more positive approach to the game because they see a huge chance in playing they won't do any worse than our starters.

3. The club needs to decide what direction they want to go into.

a) If you want to become a top club you can't say: Player X/Y (last periods these were guys like Dzeko) are too expensive as they want too much salary. If we give him so much everybody is going to ask for much more and that's not sustainable. We just now start to spend that money - on Reus as a last resort to keeping him. But we saw what happens when you rely on one player. Reus alone saved our ass last spring when he participated in 17 of 19 goals in a row or something like that. Now he's injured and we are fucked. In my opinion we should get a quality replacement in the winter. First because it provides time to Reus to get healthy again and second because we can start integrating his successor in case that he leaves. Problem: What quality player is going to join us when we can't guarantee participation in el/cl?

b) We could try to go the route of the wonderful clubs from Portugal. Buy talent, make it play 1-2 good seasons and sell for ridiculous amounts. Are we going to see a cl final again in the near future following this approach? Most likely not. Are we going to fall deep because we got used to getting carried by 1-2 exceptional players for half a decade? Most likely not.

4. We don't start Langerak. Weidenfeller developing into zombie-neuer is not a good development. Langerak isn't modern, but he's awesome.

tldr: stupid amount of stupid text. I'm sad.

e: oh god barca is playing in those dazzling jerseys again. MY EYES
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
November 30 2014 20:13 GMT
#7813
Benfica and Porto are successful with this business strategy because they are the first destiny in europe for south american talent. Dortmund cant do that.

The good news is: Due to bundesliga beeing very balanced if you ignore Bayern its "only" 10 points to 4th place, thats not impossible to do with 21 games left and teams like Wolfsburg, Augsburg or Gladbach in which i am not convinced thaht they can stay at a international spot.

So if they get their shit together, get a bit lucky and some teams fall off they can very well be top 4 again.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
November 30 2014 20:16 GMT
#7814
Oh my Suarez just missed an absolute sitter.. dat ring rust.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 30 2014 20:24 GMT
#7815
NIce game in mestalla, valencia finally back after all these years?
Damn these pink jerseys.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 20:27:16
November 30 2014 20:26 GMT
#7816
On December 01 2014 05:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Benfica and Porto are successful with this business strategy because they are the first destiny in europe for south american talent. Dortmund cant do that.

The good news is: Due to bundesliga beeing very balanced if you ignore Bayern its "only" 10 points to 4th place, thats not impossible to do with 21 games left and teams like Wolfsburg, Augsburg or Gladbach in which i am not convinced thaht they can stay at a international spot.

So if they get their shit together, get a bit lucky and some teams fall off they can very well be top 4 again.

I guess Dortmund would need to concentrate on the japanese (no idea how much marketing power we have with Kagawa. We should start playing Maruoka and show those young guys what they can achieve in Dortmund.) or the middle-east-european market. But that doesn't sound as awesome as "the next brazilian super talent" I have to admit. Still it's something I wouldn't mind seeing as a corporate strategy.

The 4th place isn't far away that's right but as Stratos_spear said we're not just on a bad run anymore. 2 of the next 3 Bundesliga teams we'll meet are Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg. We haven't look too solid against them during the last season. The third is Berlin and as we sold Schieber to them he's going to score atleast twice in that match. If you'd ask a Dortmund fan if they would take 3pts out of those 3 games I guess 50% would instantly sign that. And suddenly it's christmas and after the last game against Bremen 10 points became 16 or worst case 22. Should we get to 10th place somewhat soon we can talk about 4th to 6th place but at this moment it would just take the heat of the situation which is not what is needed.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 20:33:23
November 30 2014 20:28 GMT
#7817
Not sure Barcelona lined up with the best matchup, Valencia is really quick down the wings and on the counter, and Barcelona has the Mascherano and Busquets midfield which seems like a "break up the midfield" lineup, when Valencia isn't really building in the midfield.

Also, testy unsportsmanlike game so far.

Alves just got fortunate to not make it 4/4 Barcelona defenders on yellow cards 30 mins into the game.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18772 Posts
November 30 2014 20:31 GMT
#7818
On December 01 2014 05:26 smr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 05:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Benfica and Porto are successful with this business strategy because they are the first destiny in europe for south american talent. Dortmund cant do that.

The good news is: Due to bundesliga beeing very balanced if you ignore Bayern its "only" 10 points to 4th place, thats not impossible to do with 21 games left and teams like Wolfsburg, Augsburg or Gladbach in which i am not convinced thaht they can stay at a international spot.

So if they get their shit together, get a bit lucky and some teams fall off they can very well be top 4 again.

I guess Dortmund would need to concentrate on the japanese (no idea how much marketing power we have with Kagawa. We should start playing Maruoka and show those young guys what they can achieve in Dortmund.) or the middle-east-european market. But that doesn't sound as awesome as "the next brazilian super talent" I have to admit. Still it's something I wouldn't mind seeing as a corporate strategy.

The 4th place isn't far away that's right but as Stratos_spear said we're not just on a bad run anymore. 2 of the next 3 Bundesliga teams we'll meet are Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg. We haven't look too solid against them during the last season. The third is Berlin and as we sold Schieber to them he's going to score atleast twice in that match. If you'd ask a Dortmund fan if they would take 3pts out of those 3 games I guess 50% would instantly sign that. And suddenly it's christmas and after the last game against Bremen 10 points became 16 or worst case 22. Should we get to 10th place somewhat soon we can talk about 4th to 6th place but at this moment it would just take the heat of the situation which is not what is needed.


Asia is the biggest market in the world and I am really surprised no other team apart from ManUtd with Park Ji Sung ever tried to get a foothold there.

I think Kagawa was so successful with BVB that they started putting out a lot of content in Japanese.
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
November 30 2014 20:40 GMT
#7819
On December 01 2014 05:31 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 05:26 smr wrote:
On December 01 2014 05:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Benfica and Porto are successful with this business strategy because they are the first destiny in europe for south american talent. Dortmund cant do that.

The good news is: Due to bundesliga beeing very balanced if you ignore Bayern its "only" 10 points to 4th place, thats not impossible to do with 21 games left and teams like Wolfsburg, Augsburg or Gladbach in which i am not convinced thaht they can stay at a international spot.

So if they get their shit together, get a bit lucky and some teams fall off they can very well be top 4 again.

I guess Dortmund would need to concentrate on the japanese (no idea how much marketing power we have with Kagawa. We should start playing Maruoka and show those young guys what they can achieve in Dortmund.) or the middle-east-european market. But that doesn't sound as awesome as "the next brazilian super talent" I have to admit. Still it's something I wouldn't mind seeing as a corporate strategy.

The 4th place isn't far away that's right but as Stratos_spear said we're not just on a bad run anymore. 2 of the next 3 Bundesliga teams we'll meet are Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg. We haven't look too solid against them during the last season. The third is Berlin and as we sold Schieber to them he's going to score atleast twice in that match. If you'd ask a Dortmund fan if they would take 3pts out of those 3 games I guess 50% would instantly sign that. And suddenly it's christmas and after the last game against Bremen 10 points became 16 or worst case 22. Should we get to 10th place somewhat soon we can talk about 4th to 6th place but at this moment it would just take the heat of the situation which is not what is needed.


Asia is the biggest market in the world and I am really surprised no other team apart from ManUtd with Park Ji Sung ever tried to get a foothold there.

I think Kagawa was so successful with BVB that they started putting out a lot of content in Japanese.

Yeah it's one of the three languages our homepage and twitter is available in. Getting Ji for free seemed to me to be aimed at the asian market as well. A shame he started with 2 injuries. Next year the team is going for a tour in Asia aswell.
I just think that risking some investments - buying 2-3 prospects- could be fantastic in the long run.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-30 20:41:45
November 30 2014 20:41 GMT
#7820
On December 01 2014 05:28 ZapRoffo wrote:
Not sure Barcelona lined up with the best matchup, Valencia is really quick down the wings and on the counter, and Barcelona has the Mascherano and Busquets midfield which seems like a "break up the midfield" lineup, when Valencia isn't really building in the midfield.

Also, testy unsportsmanlike game so far.

Alves just got fortunate to not make it 4/4 Barcelona defenders on yellow cards 30 mins into the game.


Yeah I dont get Busquets in this lineup. He isnt really of any use at all. Rakitic would be soooo much better here. Unless there is some rotation thing, which again is a lousy reason so dono.
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