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2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 163

Forum Index > Sports
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Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
August 30 2014 23:27 GMT
#3241
Arsenal have joined Chelsea in triggering Loic Remy's release clause, according to some Sky sources. The QPR striker appeared to be on his way to Stamford Bridge when Chelsea agreed to pay the £10.5million fee set out in his contract, but Remy could now be left with a choice to make between the London rivals


Wonder who he will choose ^_^
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
owenose
Profile Joined January 2013
Germany108 Posts
August 31 2014 00:12 GMT
#3242
On August 31 2014 07:37 Pantagruel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2014 06:28 zulu_nation8 wrote:
United's problems all start at the back, we have not one, two, but three defenders who love passing the ball straight to some triple marked midfield player and giving the ball away. Blackett was the worst today at making the most intercepted 10 yard passes from the back. Evans's diagonal balls fall about 10 yards short every time and was the worst overall player today. Each time they give up possession the opposing team always counters quickly. The back three simply don't know how to deal with pressure of any kind, and take too long and make poor choices even when not under pressure, and now they're making De Gea look shaky because no one can make simple passes to unmarked players.

Di Maria looked good, he was put into a pretty deep role and did well. Otherwise same story, everyone looked confused, no synergy anywhere, mishit balls, players slipping, etc. Valencia and Young get the most touches again.


Part of the problem with a back 3 is that there is less angles to get a ball into midfield then when you have a back 4. On top of this, all 3 of United's CB are too afraid to carry the ball forward themselves. This leads to passing around the back or trying to force a ball into midfield when he's under pressure. That's the second issue, midfield. They don't present themselves for the defense to pass effectively too and they are not good enough the small spaces to turn a pressing opponent and continue to move the ball forward, so inevitably the ball goes back to defense. Then it's hoofed forward.

LvG seems hellbent on the 3-5-2 to be able to incorporate his star trio of Mata, Rooney and Robin van Persie but it's all pointless if they can never be adequately supplied with the ball.

I think as the defense gets more comfortable with the system the schoolboy errors will eventually dissipate, but the lack of service to the attacking players, won't. The simple truth is that Fletcher/Cleverley, the back 3, Young and Valencia are not good enough. These players are responsible for providing good service for the attacking players, but they are not good enough to do so. I think the system LvG is trying to instill puts an even heavier burden on them to create and that's just not smart.

With that said, when they do get the ball the front 3 have been really poor and slow. Part of that is because the center is so congested because United play without much width but Rooney, Robin van Persie and Mata in particular were absolutely too slow. They need to have much quicker speed of thought to create chances in what are going to be small spaces.

The only positive is that Di Maria looked quite good in my opinion, he was the only player that created anything in an extremely limited team today.


Kind of reminds me of LvG's time in Germany, coaching Bayern. In that period Bayern had also problems with passing the ball around in their half of the pitch, so i wont put it all on the back of United's CB's, i would also call out LvG for that. On the other hand, he was quite successful at Bayern, he did need a quarter of a season to get the team play "his" football though.

-> 1 Player getting kicked out of United may be Kagawa, the german press is all about him returning to BVB. I cant wait for that to get confirmed :D
Pantagruel
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1427 Posts
August 31 2014 00:59 GMT
#3243
I think Nigel de Jong would be a wise pick up for United. He would add some steel and quick accurate short range passing to the midfield. More then that though, he will add some confidence and stability to a team bereft of it. He's a cool customer and is really useful addition to a team, even if he's not glamorous.
RDaneelOlivaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Vatican City State733 Posts
August 31 2014 01:31 GMT
#3244
On August 31 2014 08:27 Pandemona wrote:
Arsenal have joined Chelsea in triggering Loic Remy's release clause, according to some Sky sources. The QPR striker appeared to be on his way to Stamford Bridge when Chelsea agreed to pay the £10.5million fee set out in his contract, but Remy could now be left with a choice to make between the London rivals


Wonder who he will choose ^_^

Well does he want to win trophies or does he want to play for Arsenal :p
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 31 2014 01:31 GMT
#3245
Not sure if it's the formation but the 3-5-2 seems to keep the ball in its backline most of the time. And if the defensive players see the most of the ball, they need to have some ball playing ability like Rio, Carrick, etc. Blackett and Jones went up the pitch today off the ball but no defender on the squad is comfortable with the ball. I highly doubt more practice is gonna turn Evans into a dribbling wizard, right now Jones is the most comfortable with the ball at his feet but either way, the defensive formation is always in terrible shape vs. any counterattack or quick attack. Young and Valencia played decently today, mainly because Burnley put a lot of men in the middle. But the best chances all came from Di Maria running or getting the ball up the middle. I don't know what role he played in RM but I always thought he was just a pure winger from the WC games. Definitely faster than I thought and sees the field well. Had a few rough touches but so did everyone.
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
August 31 2014 01:46 GMT
#3246
On August 31 2014 10:31 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2014 08:27 Pandemona wrote:
Arsenal have joined Chelsea in triggering Loic Remy's release clause, according to some Sky sources. The QPR striker appeared to be on his way to Stamford Bridge when Chelsea agreed to pay the £10.5million fee set out in his contract, but Remy could now be left with a choice to make between the London rivals


Wonder who he will choose ^_^

Well does he want to win trophies or does he want to play for Arsenal :p

He's apparently an Arsenal fan, but I guess he'll go for the money at Chelsea. You never know, though. I'd fucking love to have him in front of Özil.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 31 2014 02:53 GMT
#3247
He'll choose Chelsea as it is a safer bet and $$$ rather than Arsenal.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
anomalopidae
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Slovenia549 Posts
August 31 2014 06:20 GMT
#3248
This predictor is doing horrible things for me, don't think I'll manage a single positive week
Imagine a place where the Alps meet the Mediterranean, where you can pick autumn fruits in the morning, bathe in the Adriatic in the afternoon, and go night skiing in the evening…It’s Slovenia!
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6298 Posts
August 31 2014 06:35 GMT
#3249
On August 31 2014 11:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He'll choose Chelsea as it is a safer bet and $$$ rather than Arsenal.

Arsenal has a lot of money too. He is going to be far far away from world record wages at Chelsea.
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
Maenander
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany4926 Posts
August 31 2014 07:03 GMT
#3250
On August 31 2014 10:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
But the best chances all came from Di Maria running or getting the ball up the middle. I don't know what role he played in RM but I always thought he was just a pure winger from the WC games. Definitely faster than I thought and sees the field well. Had a few rough touches but so did everyone.

Di Maria is very versatile. With Ronaldo and Bale on the wings he was very successful in a more central role.
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-31 08:26:28
August 31 2014 08:25 GMT
#3251
On August 31 2014 16:03 Maenander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2014 10:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:
But the best chances all came from Di Maria running or getting the ball up the middle. I don't know what role he played in RM but I always thought he was just a pure winger from the WC games. Definitely faster than I thought and sees the field well. Had a few rough touches but so did everyone.

Di Maria is very versatile. With Ronaldo and Bale on the wings he was very successful in a more central role.


better to have a proper midfielder (vidal) then waste di maria (who is better off as a winger) in that role. in RM he was the only one who would add an extra dimension to the team by running at defenders.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18443 Posts
August 31 2014 08:26 GMT
#3252
On August 31 2014 10:31 RDaneelOlivaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2014 08:27 Pandemona wrote:
Arsenal have joined Chelsea in triggering Loic Remy's release clause, according to some Sky sources. The QPR striker appeared to be on his way to Stamford Bridge when Chelsea agreed to pay the £10.5million fee set out in his contract, but Remy could now be left with a choice to make between the London rivals


Wonder who he will choose ^_^

Well does he want to win trophies or does he want to play for Arsenal :p


So he can choose between Arsenal and Arsenal? :o
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
August 31 2014 08:32 GMT
#3253
On August 31 2014 09:12 owenose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2014 07:37 Pantagruel wrote:
On August 31 2014 06:28 zulu_nation8 wrote:
United's problems all start at the back, we have not one, two, but three defenders who love passing the ball straight to some triple marked midfield player and giving the ball away. Blackett was the worst today at making the most intercepted 10 yard passes from the back. Evans's diagonal balls fall about 10 yards short every time and was the worst overall player today. Each time they give up possession the opposing team always counters quickly. The back three simply don't know how to deal with pressure of any kind, and take too long and make poor choices even when not under pressure, and now they're making De Gea look shaky because no one can make simple passes to unmarked players.

Di Maria looked good, he was put into a pretty deep role and did well. Otherwise same story, everyone looked confused, no synergy anywhere, mishit balls, players slipping, etc. Valencia and Young get the most touches again.


Part of the problem with a back 3 is that there is less angles to get a ball into midfield then when you have a back 4. On top of this, all 3 of United's CB are too afraid to carry the ball forward themselves. This leads to passing around the back or trying to force a ball into midfield when he's under pressure. That's the second issue, midfield. They don't present themselves for the defense to pass effectively too and they are not good enough the small spaces to turn a pressing opponent and continue to move the ball forward, so inevitably the ball goes back to defense. Then it's hoofed forward.

LvG seems hellbent on the 3-5-2 to be able to incorporate his star trio of Mata, Rooney and Robin van Persie but it's all pointless if they can never be adequately supplied with the ball.

I think as the defense gets more comfortable with the system the schoolboy errors will eventually dissipate, but the lack of service to the attacking players, won't. The simple truth is that Fletcher/Cleverley, the back 3, Young and Valencia are not good enough. These players are responsible for providing good service for the attacking players, but they are not good enough to do so. I think the system LvG is trying to instill puts an even heavier burden on them to create and that's just not smart.

With that said, when they do get the ball the front 3 have been really poor and slow. Part of that is because the center is so congested because United play without much width but Rooney, Robin van Persie and Mata in particular were absolutely too slow. They need to have much quicker speed of thought to create chances in what are going to be small spaces.

The only positive is that Di Maria looked quite good in my opinion, he was the only player that created anything in an extremely limited team today.


Kind of reminds me of LvG's time in Germany, coaching Bayern. In that period Bayern had also problems with passing the ball around in their half of the pitch, so i wont put it all on the back of United's CB's, i would also call out LvG for that. On the other hand, he was quite successful at Bayern, he did need a quarter of a season to get the team play "his" football though.

-> 1 Player getting kicked out of United may be Kagawa, the german press is all about him returning to BVB. I cant wait for that to get confirmed :D


Honestly i think Van Gaal will step away from the 3-5-2 at some point. There are two ways out there to play that: you are super defensive like the Netherlands at the WC or you are playing a "controle" ball possetion based style like Guardiola wants at Munich.
I dont see either work, the defensive will not work in the league because weaker teams will play defensive as well and RVP and Rooney are not the isolationg counter attack players you would need to play against that (Robben was crucial at the WC). I guess Van Gaal wants the controle style but i dont think he has the players to do that. The most important position is the CB in the middle, thats why Bayern spend 40 million on Alonso and Benatia because of one torn ACL but i dont see that level of individual class on any defender of the current roster.

Honestly i think buying Alonso would maybe be more helpful then Di Maria. And i think at some point at least one or maybe two of Rooney, Mata and RVP will leave or change his style because Van Gaal loves his 4-3-3 and especially Mata looks very out of place in this system.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51476 Posts
August 31 2014 08:42 GMT
#3254
hey norwegians, can you give us an evaluation of Martin Odegaard? apparently at 15 years old he debut already for the senior team - has to be decent, right?
Commentator
haitike
Profile Joined June 2009
Spain2714 Posts
August 31 2014 08:45 GMT
#3255
Premier League matches are always so tactically bad compared with other leagues, but It is awesome to watch as a spectator
Twisted
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands13554 Posts
August 31 2014 09:00 GMT
#3256
On August 31 2014 17:45 haitike wrote:
Premier League matches are always so tactically bad compared with other leagues, but It is awesome to watch as a spectator


Hah yeah and I fully expect Man U to start owning in a year because of van Gaal who is tactically sound. Just needs a shitload of time to pick up the wreckage and fix it.

But yeah he needs to let go of 3-5-2.
Moderator
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
August 31 2014 09:03 GMT
#3257
Hahaha, we just got mitroglou back from fulham on loan.
Finallyyyyyyyyyy!!! So happy.
Now dear mitro, let's prove once again how good you are mate.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
August 31 2014 09:36 GMT
#3258
On August 31 2014 17:42 GTR wrote:
hey norwegians, can you give us an evaluation of Martin Odegaard? apparently at 15 years old he debut already for the senior team - has to be decent, right?

Whilst the Norwegian Tippeliga isn´t a very strong league its still astonishing how Ødegaard is tearing shit up. Technically he is brilliant, and in his 11 games he has managed 3 goals and several assists, a few of which is with backheels. Kid looks like the genuine article, flair and control in abundances!
"NO" -Has
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
August 31 2014 09:55 GMT
#3259
On August 31 2014 17:45 haitike wrote:
Premier League matches are always so tactically bad compared with other leagues, but It is awesome to watch as a spectator

I think this is a myth deriving from the fact that a high tempo game will naturally have more movement, and thus more space will be created. A high line of pressing requires tremendous tactical awareness, but its hard to notice a dynamic three man front line doing their defensive duties perfect. At least compared to Serie A as an example, where they often literally stand in formation and wait while the opponents pass the ball around.

I do agree though that teams don´t change tactics up much in Premier League, most teams have a set strategy they follow. In that regard you seldom get to se a tactical masterpiece from a manager, though for me personally Tottenham-Liverpool and Liverpool-Arsenal come to mind as games where brilliant tactics separated evenly matched teams.

Bottom line I do agree, pace and skill > tactics.
"NO" -Has
malcram
Profile Joined November 2010
2752 Posts
August 31 2014 11:33 GMT
#3260
balotelli starts
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