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On June 18 2016 07:23 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 08:39 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2016 08:05 micronesia wrote:On June 08 2016 22:34 Sadist wrote:
I highly recommend using video if you are going through really bad spells.
Feel isnt real.
What you may think you are doing could be totally different than what you are doing. Mirrors help too. This makes perfect sense but filming yourself hitting golf balls is a huge pain in the ass. On June 09 2016 01:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 08 2016 17:32 micronesia wrote:
xDaunt I tried doing exactly that... I fully expected it would simply the swing (as you said) enough that I could at least see some changes from the total mishits, and it didn't end up helping. Whatever I'm doing seems to be too heavily ingrained right now and will need to be sanitized by a pro. Do you have a common mishit or are you just all over the place? At the time I was sending many of them low and to the right. I think my hands were getting behind the clubhead, causing the belly to get exposed, but when I tried drills/etc to prevent that from happening it didn't really help. Sounds like you are hitting the ball off the toe. How do your divots look? Also, I think I have my driver figured out. I was crushing balls off the tee yesterday, driving them somewhere outside the back bounds of the driving range. They were carrying at least 300 yards. Now I just need to figure out wtf I'm doing wrong with my hybrids (almost certainly a setup problem). Are you fairly tall? And/or at altitude? 300 yards is a massive, massive carry. Even guys like McIroy, Johnson, Day, etc. barely carry the ball 300, if that. If you're really carrying 300 you've got at least 120mph of clubhead speed to work with. Definitely wouldn't need 11.5 with that, heck even 9 degrees of loft is quite a bit for that kind of speed. How far do you hit a 7 iron and say a 4 iron?
I'm 5'9, but I'm in the Denver metro area, so there is an altitude effect. My 7 iron can go 190 (to rest). My 4 hybrid can go somewhere in the neighborhood of 220-230.
As for the driver, the 11.5 degree loft is working for me right now. I don't think that I swing up on the ball well enough to use a lower loft. Even with the 11.5 loft, I still sometimes get those lower drives and lose a ton of distance as a result.
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United States24631 Posts
On June 18 2016 07:23 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 08:43 micronesia wrote:
The artificial turf at the range does not leave divots, but I'm pretty sure I was not hitting off the toe. I'm sorry for your loss ;(
It's better than a driving range mat, but still not grass. I very rarely have access to driving ranges that let you hit off the grass the majority of the time.
Show nested quote +On June 17 2016 18:19 micronesia wrote:
Golf is hard to get good at, but worth it once you accomplish it. There's nothing like having a good day in golf!
For some reason I've been really struggling though. Because golf. We all do at times. 
Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 22:34 Sadist wrote:
I highly recommend using video if you are going through really bad spells.
Feel isnt real.
What you may think you are doing could be totally different than what you are doing. Mirrors help too. This is really true. Now if you have a coach watching you that's fine, but yea if you're diagnosing swing stuff yourself without video...risky business. I remember at one point early when I was learning back in early HS I was trying to widen my arc for more power/consistency, but in an effort to do this I kept reaching higher towards the sky. After a month or two I literally had my left arm perpendicular to the ground at the top of the swing (like as much or more than Furyk at the top). Not good. Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 08:05 micronesia wrote:On June 08 2016 22:34 Sadist wrote:
I highly recommend using video if you are going through really bad spells.
Feel isnt real.
What you may think you are doing could be totally different than what you are doing. Mirrors help too. This makes perfect sense but filming yourself hitting golf balls is a huge pain in the ass. o.O I think it's super easy. Take out phone. Press record. Place on top of golf bag, direct behind target line OR face on. Hit 3-5 balls. Walk over to phone and press stop. When home, examine video. Takes all of 30 extra seconds.
A few issues. First of all, how do you get your phone to perfectly balance on your golf bag aimed right at yourself? I haven't ever tried that so maybe it's easier than it sounds. Regardless, my smartphone has its cameras deactivated for work-related reasons, and my backup phone doesn't have a camera at all so I'd have to rig something up with my DSLR which would be a big pain and would draw way more attention than I would be interested in while on a potentially crowded driving range.
The other problem is, as you said, you review what you were doing when you get home. That doesn't give you the opportunity to fix your mistakes.
On the other hand, if recording yourself is logistically convenient I understand it's totally worth giving it a go.
Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 09:22 micronesia wrote:
Yeah I tried chipping on the course a few weeks ago and it was a bit ugly. Then I spent 5 minute on it with the pro and I did a lot better the next time :p
I've heard different advice about how to chip, but my pro's philosophy is to treat it like putting. Move the hands forward, grip the wedge like a putter, and use a longer club if you have more green to work with than distance you need to carry. A mishit with a 9 iron might end up in exactly the same place as it would have if you hit it perfectly :p I generally agree with this. The variation I use is to take the club that will land the ball about a foot on the green while ending up at the hole. Now, when you get into situations where you're more short sides or have longer chips/pitches this doesn't apply well, but if you're just off the green in the rough or fringe, or have a ton of green to work with I find it really easy to take a 7 or 9 iron and basically use my putting feel/stroke to pop that ball in there close.
I think the guidance by Gary McCord in Golf for Dummies is to aim to land the ball 2 feet on the green, but same difference.
On June 18 2016 07:49 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 10:28 micronesia wrote:
I went ahead and played 9 after work today. Didn't have time to loosen up at the range before I started which couldn't have helped, but the round went pretty terribly lol
It reminded me of all the times people told me how you should spend most of your time practicing short game and I've thought to myself "NO! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO NOT BE ABLE TO GET TO THE GREEN!"
Like, "Oh God, I two putted when I could have one putted this and got a 10 instead of a 9 oh no!"
Hopefully things can only improve from shooting 56 (with a little bit of 'assistance') lol This statement holds generally true. But not for everyone. When you're totally new, you definitely need to practice your swing far more than short game. There is more to lose there, most people don't make a 12 as a result of 3 chipping and then 5 putting. It can happen, but most totally new guys can get on the green in one or two and then in the hole in 3-4 putts at worst. Not to mention it just feels miserable and holds play up way more if you're constantly hitting shots OB, topping them, or laying sod all over them. Sounds reasonable.
After you get to where the ball goes consistently in the air and in a generally more forwards than sideways direction the short game tends to take greater precedence. When does this happen? This has been my goal for years, and I never get to this point. How often do you leave your drive on the rough just before the lady's tee? It really sucks lol
Odds are, your next shot from the rough on the uphill lie won't be very good right after screwing up your drive (and you probably don't even know what you did wrong at that point), and now if you are lucky you've made it to the beginning of the fairway in 2. Short game can only help you so much at that point. Granted, that's not every hole or the golf bag would have been at the bottom of the lake already.
Most people shooting 85-100, are generally around (within 50-100 yards) the green in two shots. A good, consistent short game will turn that kind of card into mostly pars and bogeys with the rare double. There is your 80s shooter. Seems fair.
The exception to this rule is if you're massively wild off the tee. If you hit balls consistently OB, or in location where all you can do is chip back into the fairway on a routine bases...then your long game and iron game need more focus. Those kinds of shots you can't afford.
If you just hit lots of crappy drives that generally go crooked, but in play, and then questionable iron shots that still generally make forward progress...short game will save strokes from your score that much more. To apply the discussion to my game, the concern is less about wild hooks, slices, pulls, or pushes, and more and about unexpected mishits that cause all sorts of unusual ballpaths, often way shorter than planned.
The last portion of it comes down to what you care about. For most people, I think they enjoy the game more hitting solid drives and nice pure high iron shots even if they do some damage to themselves around the green. Whereas scrapping your way around to a score in the high 80s with a bunch of bladed irons and sliced drives doesn't always feel as satisfying. So, for the typical amateur it somewhat comes down to what you enjoy and are worried about. If you really wanna beat your mates at the end of the day, short game (<100 yards) is the most likely place worth developing. If you want a game that feels better and looks prettier but at the end of the day produces higher numbers, place most of the emphasis on your driving and iron work. When your bad shots are 'thin to win' and your good shots are pure, that's a good day in my book.
This can always be checked with good score keeping too. Keep track of how long it takes you to get within 100 yards of the green (include penalties), and then how long it takes you to get into the hole from there. Both should be 2 shots. If you're taking 4 one way and 2.3 the other way...it's pretty obvious which one you should focus on. Are you intending for this advice to be for Par 4 only? I think this is an interesting idea, although I've read 60 yards is the cutoff for short vs long game...
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1) Usually I can just prop the phone up between irons or on the lip of my bad and it holds well. Having to bring a DLSR would be more of a pain.
I do realize you can't look at any film until you get back, but if their is a swing issue you find and feel important to work on that issue will still be there after you get home for the range or the next time you go. So the idea is use the film to get a look at the swing and then work on the issue at home (if you have space where you can set up a mirror inside the house that's perfect, but if not driveway still works okay) or next time you go the range.
2) Yea, 2 feet, 1 foot; concept is the same. Get the ball far enough onto the green that if your just a little off plan you don't land on the fringe and mess up your planned roll.
3) How often do I personally leave the ball in the rough before the closest tee marker? I'm not sure I can remember doing that since I was like a freshman in HS just starting golf. I've hit some really nasty slices and hooks in there, and certainly some thin ones, but nothing so bad that I didn't advance the ball 100 yards. By the same token from a handicap perspective by season I went something like: Horrible, 14, 8, 3, 1-2, +1-2. I improved pretty quick, but also had the luxury of being a HSer that could practice for 8 hours a day everyday 5 or 6 months out of the year.
I'm not sure what you usually shoot. But I think for the typical person shooting in the 90s you hit a lot of "squirrely" shots, but not too many total duffs in a round. If your hitting that kind of shot with driver once per 18 holes that's one thing, but if it is happening 3, 4, 5 times a round then I'd definitely agree that long game should be the priority.
If you don't mind my asking, what would you say a typical good score for you over 18 (or 9 if you play that more) is, and what is a typical round?
4) That concept applies to any par. Just add one more shot for getting near the green on a 5 par and one less for a 3 par.
You could define 60 as short game too, but I tend to think of any less than full swing wedges as short game shots, and from within 100 yards I basically never make a full swing. A full 60 degree wedge goes about that far, but I don't feel as controlled with that as I do with a more sawed off sand wedge; there is a tendency to "slip under" the ball with a 60 where it basically feels like you made okay contact, but you don't get good transfer and the ball ends up about 30 yards short.
If you prefer to use 60 yards as short game cutoff, I think that's fine.
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United States24631 Posts
Sorry I was out of town and didn't reply until now.
On June 18 2016 20:26 L_Master wrote:
3) How often do I personally leave the ball in the rough before the closest tee marker? I'm not sure I can remember doing that since I was like a freshman in HS just starting golf. I've hit some really nasty slices and hooks in there, and certainly some thin ones, but nothing so bad that I didn't advance the ball 100 yards. By the same token from a handicap perspective by season I went something like: Horrible, 14, 8, 3, 1-2, +1-2. I improved pretty quick, but also had the luxury of being a HSer that could practice for 8 hours a day everyday 5 or 6 months out of the year.
For some reason I never get improvement like that. I perpetually stay in horrible on the cusp of 14 or w/e. I think my scumbag brain likes mishitting the ball.
I'm not sure what you usually shoot. But I think for the typical person shooting in the 90s you hit a lot of "squirrely" shots, but not too many total duffs in a round. If your hitting that kind of shot with driver once per 18 holes that's one thing, but if it is happening 3, 4, 5 times a round then I'd definitely agree that long game should be the priority. This is why long game has been my priority 100% of my golf career (not that I ignore short game entirely or anything)... it's too detrimental to my play when I'm so horribly inconsistent, and no bad shot is too bad to be a significant possibility at any point in the round.
If you don't mind my asking, what would you say a typical good score for you over 18 (or 9 if you play that more) is, and what is a typical round? It's been a couple of years since I finished an 18 hole round. This year, I've played 9 holes twice and I really can't give you any type of a score range yet. Last year I wasn't able to play. Honestly, it's hard to explain where I stand with golf. I think you'd just have to be there.
I'll get back on the horse this weekend for the billionth time.
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For long game vs short game I believe 9/10 long game is more important. Unless you are blading balls back and forth across the green multiple times per round its an almost given that you are losing more strokes from tee to green than on our around the green.
Its much harder to make double bogey from next to the green than it is from the tee where OB/Hazards come into play.
If you have drastic mishits frequently (like tops/shanks/etc) and you play fairly often (not like once or twice a year) I would say in all likelihood you have a lot of moving parts going on in your swing and you should try to steady a few things and make your swing a little simpler.
I still say use video. It will help dramatically. Especially if you take videos from down the line facing the target and from the side (where if you look up you are directly facing the camera) You can even get a tripod or make one yourself by taping your cell phone to a stick or something. You probably can rest the phone on your bag in all liklihood so start with that.
If you take videos of your good and bad swings you might be able to find out the difference. I will bet if you watch your swing and look at a professionals swing you will be shocked to see how little head/body tilt they have compared to you.
Also, XDaunt, if you really carry it 300 thats incredibly far. I'm not familiar with altitude numbers but generally a 300 yard carry (on average good hits) would equate to something like 325-330 off the tee routinely (and something like 350 downwind).
I've only met one or two guys ever who could even think about a 300 yard carry if it wasnt downhill down wind. 270-280 carries are enormous for most amateurs who aren't scratch or better.
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United States24631 Posts
On June 28 2016 11:47 Sadist wrote:
For long game vs short game I believe 9/10 long game is more important. Unless you are blading balls back and forth across the green multiple times per round its an almost given that you are losing more strokes from tee to green than on our around the green.
Its much harder to make double bogey from next to the green than it is from the tee where OB/Hazards come into play.
If you have drastic mishits frequently (like tops/shanks/etc) and you play fairly often (not like once or twice a year) I would say in all likelihood you have a lot of moving parts going on in your swing and you should try to steady a few things and make your swing a little simpler.
I still say use video. It will help dramatically. Especially if you take videos from down the line facing the target and from the side (where if you look up you are directly facing the camera) You can even get a tripod or make one yourself by taping your cell phone to a stick or something. You probably can rest the phone on your bag in all liklihood so start with that.
On June 18 2016 09:26 micronesia wrote:
Regardless, my smartphone has its cameras deactivated for work-related reasons, and my backup phone doesn't have a camera at all so I'd have to rig something up with my DSLR which would be a big pain and would draw way more attention than I would be interested in while on a potentially crowded driving range.
I should design a driving range with built-in cameras... would get rich!
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United States24631 Posts
For an update I finally had another golf lesson today and the main problem I resolved was when I was bringing the club back it was often a little too inside which was screwing everything up. Now I ensure I bring the club back such that, as it first becomes parallel with the ground at ~waist height, the grip is pointed towards my target. I'm continuing to bring it back all the way until the club becomes parallel the ground again, which seems to work better for me than to bring it back less far. When I don't force myself to put a short pause at the top of my swing I tend to pull and/or draw the ball a little too much, but at least it isn't a devastating shot. I will play 9 as soon as the weather cooperates and we'll see how I do!
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On June 18 2016 08:40 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2016 07:23 L_Master wrote:On June 11 2016 08:39 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2016 08:05 micronesia wrote:On June 08 2016 22:34 Sadist wrote:
I highly recommend using video if you are going through really bad spells.
Feel isnt real.
What you may think you are doing could be totally different than what you are doing. Mirrors help too. This makes perfect sense but filming yourself hitting golf balls is a huge pain in the ass. On June 09 2016 01:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 08 2016 17:32 micronesia wrote:
xDaunt I tried doing exactly that... I fully expected it would simply the swing (as you said) enough that I could at least see some changes from the total mishits, and it didn't end up helping. Whatever I'm doing seems to be too heavily ingrained right now and will need to be sanitized by a pro. Do you have a common mishit or are you just all over the place? At the time I was sending many of them low and to the right. I think my hands were getting behind the clubhead, causing the belly to get exposed, but when I tried drills/etc to prevent that from happening it didn't really help. Sounds like you are hitting the ball off the toe. How do your divots look? Also, I think I have my driver figured out. I was crushing balls off the tee yesterday, driving them somewhere outside the back bounds of the driving range. They were carrying at least 300 yards. Now I just need to figure out wtf I'm doing wrong with my hybrids (almost certainly a setup problem). Are you fairly tall? And/or at altitude? 300 yards is a massive, massive carry. Even guys like McIroy, Johnson, Day, etc. barely carry the ball 300, if that. If you're really carrying 300 you've got at least 120mph of clubhead speed to work with. Definitely wouldn't need 11.5 with that, heck even 9 degrees of loft is quite a bit for that kind of speed. How far do you hit a 7 iron and say a 4 iron? I'm 5'9, but I'm in the Denver metro area, so there is an altitude effect. My 7 iron can go 190 (to rest). My 4 hybrid can go somewhere in the neighborhood of 220-230. As for the driver, the 11.5 degree loft is working for me right now. I don't think that I swing up on the ball well enough to use a lower loft. Even with the 11.5 loft, I still sometimes get those lower drives and lose a ton of distance as a result.
Wait.
Wait a second.
Did I just miss this before, or is this the first you've mentioned. Why on earth have we not played a round of golf together?!? I'm like 40 min max away from you.
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On June 28 2016 11:47 Sadist wrote:
Also, XDaunt, if you really carry it 300 thats incredibly far. I'm not familiar with altitude numbers but generally a 300 yard carry (on average good hits) would equate to something like 325-330 off the tee routinely (and something like 350 downwind).
I've only met one or two guys ever who could even think about a 300 yard carry if it wasnt downhill down wind. 270-280 carries are enormous for most amateurs who aren't scratch or better.
Altitude of 5000ft is supposed to be worth around 10% carry advantage.
I used to feel that way about 270 yard carry, but I think it's changed a little with the Tiger and beyond era. Hitting the ball far is hip, and the advantage of length is oft discussed. It's not that hard to have 115mph clubhead speed (roughly in line with a 270 yard carry at sea level) if you're a bigger guy with a decent swing. Don't get me wrong, it's still rare, but I've played with plenty of guys in the mid single digits who routinely carry 300+ here at altitude. It felt like maybe every 2-3 tournaments I'd play with a guy who would routinely carry 300. 330 type carry (300 sea level) is a whole different story. That REALLY stands out, and I've only played with 3 people I can remember that could routinely hit the ball like that. Generic 5 handicap guy probably averages 240-260 sea level carry in my experience.
One of whom was a teammate that pretty much all he cared about was bombing the ball. He shot mostly low/mid 80s because most of his game was weak, but holy hell could he generate clubhead speed. We always had a long drive contest at the end of the HS golf season just for fun on this straightaway 370 yard par 4. Well, my sophomore year the first year I made the team, I remember him getting up there and just going for it. His first was terrible, this ugly snap hook that carried maybe 200 before diving into the trees. Then he unleashed the second one. Utter perfection. There was a pin high bunker with a tree growing out of it, and his drive completely cleared the tree. Minimum 380 in the air, possibly 400+.
Having never watched long drive or anything like that, and only having played with some kids on the team or in JV tournaments that hit the ball 270 total at altitude, watching someone hit a golf ball like that was a pretty memorable experience.
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United States24631 Posts
Noooooo I was finally ready to go back out on the course again and then it rained yesterday and today and I won't be able to play after work this week...
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United States24631 Posts
Anyone else playing lately?
I may have just figured something out on the range this evening. Question: what are your wrists supposed to do when you get to the top of your backswing with a short-mid iron?
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On July 11 2016 07:06 micronesia wrote:
Anyone else playing lately?
I may have just figured something out on the range this evening. Question: what are your wrists supposed to do when you get to the top of your backswing with a short-mid iron?
I would say not too much. The bow/cup of the wrists probably shouldn't be changing much, and then you generally don't want to start the downswing by casting the club. If anything they should hang out more or less neutral, or if you're going to "err" increase the angle between club and arm a la Sergio.
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On July 11 2016 07:06 micronesia wrote:
Anyone else playing lately?
I may have just figured something out on the range this evening. Question: what are your wrists supposed to do when you get to the top of your backswing with a short-mid iron?
I played 18 holes a couple weeks ago. Was pretty brutal. I definitely need to work on the short game. I also flubbed a lot more iron shots than I usually do. Still, I moved the ball effectively and was able to keep up with everyone else.
As for the wrists on the backswing, I'm not sure that they should be materially different between clubs. I was taught to keep them bowed downwards a bit (it's uncomfortable as all hell for me), but my shots are good as long as I keep them fairly flat.
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United States24631 Posts
Thanks guys. I understand about the bow vs cup for the wrist (and don't plan on doing much of either). But what about the other axis that your wrist can move? How much should the thumb side of your hand be twisted towards your arm (L_Master may have alluded to this but I did not understand).
The reason why I ask is I think a big part of my inconsistency might be related to what I do with my wrist at the top of my swing.
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This Open Championship is fabulous. My god are Stenson and Phil playing some incredible golf, just answering each other back and forth.
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United States24631 Posts
This may be my last post in this thread. I've done several more weekly lessons, made some progress on the range as a result, and when I go to the course I still cannot hit the ball for shit. I can't take it anymore.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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On April 15 2019 11:26 thedeadhaji wrote:
That was an epic Masters
Indeed it was. Love or hate Tiger the person, it's hard for me to imagine someone not excited to have him back playing great golf. Sets up some awesome story arcs (Nicklaus chase, Tigermania v The Young Guns, etc.) and then let's face it his skill when he is playing good, and his approach to the game are amazing to watch.
If he stays healthy, still a big IF in my mind, it's going to be a fun next 5 years for the game.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Royal Melbourne what a venue.
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On December 13 2019 08:24 thedeadhaji wrote:
Royal Melbourne what a venue.
Back from the dead this one! And yea, things I can only dream of.
On the plus side, getting close to finishing my degree, which means regularly golf might become a little more realistic for me again.
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EPT
