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On August 18 2014 02:02 micronesia wrote:
I went to the range today, and they had people hitting off of grass. I started with my wedges, and never left my wedges. I couldn't even hit my wedges. I know grass is less forgiving than range mats, but I don't think that's sufficient to explain the difficulty I was having. I did not seem to be making a consistent mistake so I couldn't really troubleshoot properly. I was thin on some, fat on others, and other things I wasn't sure what even went wrong.
This game...
Get in front of a camera and see what's going on. If you're thin AND fat shots, you almost certainly have a lot of vertical movement during your swing. One of the drills that I find helpful in that situation is to plant all of my weight on my front foot at address. I find that it stabilizes bouncing through the swing.
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United States24813 Posts
"Bouncing" is not something I normally have a problem with. I do occasionally pick myself up too early if I'm not careful. Given my history I am doing something wrong with my upper body rather than my lower body, although anything is possible. I recently have put a great deal of effort into focusing my my balance and weight shift, and observe at the end of my swing if I did something wrong in that regard. I'm much better than I used to be at shifting my weight to my front foot, and notice immediately if I ever finish off-balance. If I do, I have a method for correcting it before my next shot. There were a couple of shots today where I was off balance (feel like falling forward at the end of the swing), and I was able to resolve the issue immediately each time with a few practice swings.
As helpful as seeing yourself on camera can be, I'm sure, it depends a lot on your situation. When you are on a crowded driving range on a bright sunny day it's difficult to capture a good video of yourself swinging, and even if you do you can barely see it until you get home. Then when you get home you can't work on the problem until the next time you go to the range, and by then your problems will most likely be different. That's why I have so much more luck having a pro watch me swinging... he can see my swing clearly where I obviously cannot, and also is better at identifying problems than I am. There are some things I do wrong that I would notice right away in a video, and there are some things I would miss unless a pro pointed it out to me... I think I'm getting better at learning the smaller things to watch out for, though.
Ultimately it comes down to this: Why am I still struggling so much? Golf is obviously difficult, but my standards are not that high. I feel like I have been playing starcraft 2 eight hours a day since it came out and still can't get out of silver.
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On August 08 2014 21:56 Rapwnzl wrote:
played 9 holes last weeks - Weyregg, Austria
awful
only hit 2 greens
and got 14 stableford points... a little bit depressing
but I nearly got 2 chip ins, which got me excited but didn't help me much..
nearly bought new irons - Cleveland 588 TT, because mine are ~ 8 years old (cleveland tour action 2)
but I'm movin right now, so i decided to wait for next year
Dang, haven't heard about stable-ford in forever!
On August 18 2014 02:02 micronesia wrote:
I went to the range today, and they had people hitting off of grass. I started with my wedges, and never left my wedges. I couldn't even hit my wedges. I know grass is less forgiving than range mats, but I don't think that's sufficient to explain the difficulty I was having. I did not seem to be making a consistent mistake so I couldn't really troubleshoot properly. I was thin on some, fat on others, and other things I wasn't sure what even went wrong.
This game...
Yea, coming from mats to grass can be strange, as if you aren't really in tune you can develop bad habits like coming in a hair fat. On the mat you're distance will be minimally impacted and if you aren't really tuned in to your feel you might not even know you're doing it.
That said, grass is infinitely more satisfying to hit off and you can get better shot quality from it as well imo.
When you are on a crowded driving range on a bright sunny day it's difficult to capture a good video of yourself swinging, and even if you do you can barely see it until you get home.
Very true. If you have a shady spot near the range and/or a bright phone it can be easier.
Then when you get home you can't work on the problem until the next time you go to the range
Disagree here though. You can easily work on most aspects of your swing at home without hitting balls. You could perfectly refine your backswing without a ball, and you can also work reasonably well on downswing/fullthrough stuff as well.
If you happen to have any sort of yard space you can even grab some whiffle balls and hang up a piece of cloth and hit into that. $10 solution to hitting some balls at home.
and by then your problems will most likely be different
Don't really agree here. Usually one problem doesn't go away. For example, it's pretty atypical to go from being laid off and then the next day you're suddenly way across the line. Doesn't really happen. You might have different result problems (i.e. thin, fat, slices, low, etc.) but the underlying swing issues don't change from day to day.
That's why I have so much more luck having a pro watch me swinging... he can see my swing clearly where I obviously cannot, and also is better at identifying problems than I am. There are some things I do wrong that I would notice right away in a video, and there are some things I would miss unless a pro pointed it out to me... I think I'm getting better at learning the smaller things to watch out for, though.
Absolutely. A competent pro is a massive asset. Only downside is the $-$$$$ factor.
Ultimately it comes down to this: Why am I still struggling so much? Golf is obviously difficult, but my standards are not that high. I feel like I have been playing starcraft 2 eight hours a day since it came out and still can't get out of silver.
Golf is really fkin hard. Out of curiosity, how much would you say you have been practicing per day and for how long?
It's also fickle too. I went all summer practicing like crazy and had minimal results the first 4 months. Suddenly shit started clicking and I went from shooting mostly in the 100s to mostly in the 80s in a span of just a few weeks.
I know in my case I was a hopeless 120s+ shooter in my first couple years, and I would practice maybe a couple times a week for an hour and play once or twice a month. I missed the cut freshman year of HS and wasn't even close, but that summer I practiced like crazy. Easily 6, if not 8 or more hours a day. That next season I think I averaged 87 for HS golf.
So in other words I spent easily over 1000 hours practicing this game until I broke 90. Several hundred or more before I even broke 100.
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United States24813 Posts
On August 18 2014 15:18 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2014 21:56 Rapwnzl wrote:
played 9 holes last weeks - Weyregg, Austria
awful
only hit 2 greens
and got 14 stableford points... a little bit depressing
but I nearly got 2 chip ins, which got me excited but didn't help me much..
nearly bought new irons - Cleveland 588 TT, because mine are ~ 8 years old (cleveland tour action 2)
but I'm movin right now, so i decided to wait for next year Dang, haven't heard about stable-ford in forever! Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 02:02 micronesia wrote:
I went to the range today, and they had people hitting off of grass. I started with my wedges, and never left my wedges. I couldn't even hit my wedges. I know grass is less forgiving than range mats, but I don't think that's sufficient to explain the difficulty I was having. I did not seem to be making a consistent mistake so I couldn't really troubleshoot properly. I was thin on some, fat on others, and other things I wasn't sure what even went wrong.
This game... Yea, coming from mats to grass can be strange, as if you aren't really in tune you can develop bad habits like coming in a hair fat. On the mat you're distance will be minimally impacted and if you aren't really tuned in to your feel you might not even know you're doing it. That said, grass is infinitely more satisfying to hit off and you can get better shot quality from it as well imo. Show nested quote +When you are on a crowded driving range on a bright sunny day it's difficult to capture a good video of yourself swinging, and even if you do you can barely see it until you get home. Very true. If you have a shady spot near the range and/or a bright phone it can be easier. Show nested quote +Then when you get home you can't work on the problem until the next time you go to the range Disagree here though. You can easily work on most aspects of your swing at home without hitting balls. You could perfectly refine your backswing without a ball, and you can also work reasonably well on downswing/fullthrough stuff as well. If you happen to have any sort of yard space you can even grab some whiffle balls and hang up a piece of cloth and hit into that. $10 solution to hitting some balls at home. I'll admit, if you can practice your swing without a golf ball at home, you can at least start to work on it. I, however, cannot. I live in an apartment building and can't swing my club without destroying something lol.
Don't really agree here. Usually one problem doesn't go away. For example, it's pretty atypical to go from being laid off and then the next day you're suddenly way across the line. Doesn't really happen. You might have different result problems (i.e. thin, fat, slices, low, etc.) but the underlying swing issues don't change from day to day.
Show nested quote +That's why I have so much more luck having a pro watch me swinging... he can see my swing clearly where I obviously cannot, and also is better at identifying problems than I am. There are some things I do wrong that I would notice right away in a video, and there are some things I would miss unless a pro pointed it out to me... I think I'm getting better at learning the smaller things to watch out for, though. Absolutely. A competent pro is a massive asset. Only downside is the $-$$$$ factor. Show nested quote +Ultimately it comes down to this: Why am I still struggling so much? Golf is obviously difficult, but my standards are not that high. I feel like I have been playing starcraft 2 eight hours a day since it came out and still can't get out of silver. Golf is really fkin hard. Out of curiosity, how much would you say you have been practicing per day and for how long?
I can work with the pro on a Saturday, and things are going pretty well, then not be able to hit balls on Sunday. That's what just happened to me this past weekend.
It's also fickle too. I went all summer practicing like crazy and had minimal results the first 4 months. Suddenly shit started clicking and I went from shooting mostly in the 100s to mostly in the 80s in a span of just a few weeks.
I know in my case I was a hopeless 120s+ shooter in my first couple years, and I would practice maybe a couple times a week for an hour and play once or twice a month. I missed the cut freshman year of HS and wasn't even close, but that summer I practiced like crazy. Easily 6, if not 8 or more hours a day. That next season I think I averaged 87 for HS golf.
So in other words I spent easily over 1000 hours practicing this game until I broke 90. Several hundred or more before I even broke 100.
I have supposedly, according to multiple pros, been on the cusp of going from shooting in the 100s to shooting in the 80s since like 2008. I have practiced a lot over the years, although not crazy 6-8 hour practice sessions. Unless that was mostly short game I don't see how you can practice effectively that much. As I mentioned earlier I can only get through like an hour on the range before I am fatigued and it isn't worth practicing/playing anymore that day.
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I dunno, Micronesia. I still think you should have your pro tape your swing during one of your practice sessions so that you can actually identify what's wrong. It will show pretty much every problem imaginable, from bouncing through the swing, to lifting your torso on the downswing, to having a poor release with your wrists. Tape don't lie.
And I agree with L_Master that there are a lot of exercises that you can do at home (or even at work) to practice your mechanics. One of the ones that I'm doing right now is putting a chair at an angle just in front of my hips to help me control my rotation on my backswing. I know to stop when my left hip touches the chair. I don't even use a club for this exercise. I've had the chair at other places too. I had a phase where I had trouble with my front side shifting too far forward on my downswing. The solution to that was to put the chair up against my front side. But it all starts with identifying what the issue is. I'd hope that your pro is able to see and point out what your bad tendencies are at the start of your lessons, and I would think that you'd be hearing about the same issues repeatedly.
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I have supposedly, according to multiple pros, been on the cusp of going from shooting in the 100s to shooting in the 80s since like 2008. I have practiced a lot over the years, although not crazy 6-8 hour practice sessions. Unless that was mostly short game I don't see how you can practice effectively that much. As I mentioned earlier I can only get through like an hour on the range before I am fatigued and it isn't worth practicing/playing anymore that day.
I was really ignorant then, and practiced short game minimally and with very unfocused practice. Just kinda hit random chips and putts. But if I had to say my short game v long game ration was probably 1:4 or lower.
As for how I practiced that much it's a combination for me of these:
1) Switching between what you are working on - In other words I would hit a bag or two of balls, go chip and putt for 20 mins, then come back and hit another bag of balls, then go get something to eat, then hit several more bags, etc. topped of with going out to play 9 holes
2)Building Up - It's sorta like running. I'm sure if I asked you to run 100mpw you would be like no way I'd be way to tired. But if you work up to it over time you'll be able to hit more until eventually you can pretty much go all day. Start hitting balls for 45 min or w/e works, then go to 1 hr, then 1.25 hr, etc.
Of course, when practicing like that it is key to avoid lazy practice. Start doing that and you can develop bad habits quick. In fact, while I doubt that is your problem by any means, make sure you are practicing smart with specific goals in mind for that session.
This is not my personal experience, unfortunately. Of course sometimes problems do persist.
You're certain of this? Reason I ask is because you don't use video too much from what I understand, so it's hard to know exactly what you're doing. Have you had situations where you literally went from one problem during a lesson to having done the opposite the next lesson?
If so, this might be where you need to look, because it's not normal for a problem to go away randomly unless you are incredibly new. Muscle memory is a pretty strong thing in the golf swing. The only scenario that makes any sense to me is if your pro gives you a drill or such thing to work on and you practice the heck out of it with exaggeration and show up next week having moved to the opposite side of the spectrum.
What I'd be curious to know Micronesia are your averages from rounds: fairways, greens, putts, and # of drives in trouble (OB, hazard, in a place where you cannot take a meaningful shot at the green). It would be a little helpful to know what's absolutely killing you in rounds.
The other thing I would say is that if you've been at this for a while and aren't getting results, then it can mean it's time to change something about how you practice. Obviously I don't have any suggestions here since I don't know your practicing,
but make sure you are entering each session with a specific goal in mind and working on that alone.
I'll admit, if you can practice your swing without a golf ball at home, you can at least start to work on it. I, however, cannot. I live in an apartment building and can't swing my club without destroying something lo
If you have an 8 foot ceiling you can still do all the backswing work in the world in your apartment. Pick up one of those tall, skinny mirrors and you can use that for feedback and grooving a good backswing.
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United States24813 Posts
I went with some coworkers after work today to a range that has golf balls with chips in them... it is a computerized range which is kind of cool. The only problem is there was some 'league' taking up the entire ground level of stalls, so we were forced to go to the 'upstairs' stalls. There is a 10+ foot drop directly in front of the mat. I couldn't get that out of my head as I was swinging. I rapidly gave up on trying to take full swings (I wasn't able to shift my weight forward because I was worried about falling due to a small fear of heights) and just pitched some shots while hanging out. Why can't they put a few more feet of 'ground' in front of the stalls for us people who don't feel comfortable shifting their weight around on top of a small cliff? The little net they put doesn't really inspire confidence.
On August 18 2014 22:02 xDaunt wrote:
I dunno, Micronesia. I still think you should have your pro tape your swing during one of your practice sessions so that you can actually identify what's wrong. It will show pretty much every problem imaginable, from bouncing through the swing, to lifting your torso on the downswing, to having a poor release with your wrists. Tape don't lie. Yea I can see about having my pro videotape me swing at some point... although it's been the same pro watching me every week for months... and each lesson I end up having to work on other things, so him taping me wouldn't really help since working with him eliminates that particular problem within a lesson or so anyway. One week my tempo's off, so we work on it. The next week I've fixed my tempo, but I'm not keeping the clubhead in front of my body long enough during the backswing. The next week I seem to be ok with the clubhead, but I'm not opening the club enough as I bring it back. The following week, due to my work the previous week, I am doing a much better job of opening the club, rather than bringing it back closed. Unfortunately, I'm not extending my left arm through the ball properly which is preventing me from hitting the ball well. The next week, I seem to do a much better job of extending my left arm, but oh fuck what's going on with my tempo. I always seem to be one or two steps away from swinging correctly, and whenever I correct something, something new shows up... often something I corrected, but had gone away for a while. Any one of these things is enough to produce a miss-hit or worse. An obvious way to combat this is by practicing sufficiently to produce muscle memory... however... a new/repeat problem comes along too quickly for me to ingrain the good swing.
And I agree with L_Master that there are a lot of exercises that you can do at home (or even at work) to practice your mechanics. One of the ones that I'm doing right now is putting a chair at an angle just in front of my hips to help me control my rotation on my backswing. I know to stop when my left hip touches the chair. I don't even use a club for this exercise. I've had the chair at other places too. I had a phase where I had trouble with my front side shifting too far forward on my downswing. The solution to that was to put the chair up against my front side. But it all starts with identifying what the issue is. I'd hope that your pro is able to see and point out what your bad tendencies are at the start of your lessons, and I would think that you'd be hearing about the same issues repeatedly. I'd be willing to try a club-less drill like this. However, I don't know what drill would be useful for whatever my problem of the week is, and how I know if I'm executing it correctly, etc.
On August 19 2014 00:43 L_Master wrote:
Of course, when practicing like that it is key to avoid lazy practice. Start doing that and you can develop bad habits quick. In fact, while I doubt that is your problem by any means, make sure you are practicing smart with specific goals in mind for that session. Can you give some examples? Especially what a good goal would be if you are showing up at the range not sure of what problems to expect.
Show nested quote +This is not my personal experience, unfortunately. Of course sometimes problems do persist. You're certain of this? Reason I ask is because you don't use video too much from what I understand, so it's hard to know exactly what you're doing. Have you had situations where you literally went from one problem during a lesson to having done the opposite the next lesson?
If so, this might be where you need to look, because it's not normal for a problem to go away randomly unless you are incredibly new. Muscle memory is a pretty strong thing in the golf swing. The only scenario that makes any sense to me is if your pro gives you a drill or such thing to work on and you practice the heck out of it with exaggeration and show up next week having moved to the opposite side of the spectrum. I think I explained it poorly before, but I seem to be correcting problems with the pro on a week to week basis, but not actually getting closer to hitting nice shots overall.
What I'd be curious to know Micronesia are your averages from rounds: fairways, greens, putts, and # of drives in trouble (OB, hazard, in a place where you cannot take a meaningful shot at the green). It would be a little helpful to know what's absolutely killing you in rounds. I think this is one of those things where you'd just have to go play a few rounds with me in order to understand it. The other day the pro and I went out to play a few holes while he watched, and we step up to the first tee (actually some random hole that wasn't occupied at the moment), and I take out my driver (it's some normal par 4 or 5) after loosening up on the range. I hit a low hook into a creek just short of the fairway. That pretty much sums up what my rounds feel like. Golf is psychologically difficult enough, but when you are trying to figure out what you are doing wrong while being 2 strokes behind from the get-go, it's almost impossible to play well. I'm sure my problems are as much mental as anything else... but that wouldn't necessarily explain why I still struggle so much on the range, too.
The other thing I would say is that if you've been at this for a while and aren't getting results, then it can mean it's time to change something about how you practice. Obviously I don't have any suggestions here since I don't know your practicing, but make sure you are entering each session with a specific goal in mind and working on that alone. As I mentioned earlier, can you give examples of this? How should you practice?
Show nested quote +I'll admit, if you can practice your swing without a golf ball at home, you can at least start to work on it. I, however, cannot. I live in an apartment building and can't swing my club without destroying something lo If you have an 8 foot ceiling you can still do all the backswing work in the world in your apartment. Pick up one of those tall, skinny mirrors and you can use that for feedback and grooving a good backswing.
edit: I guess I should add, if there are particular trends in my 'badness' in golf, neither I nor the pro seem to have identified them yet, after several months of training.
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United States24813 Posts
Most of my lesson today was spent purely on my driver, because that seems to be where my problems are most noticeable. In fact, my problems with the driver barely show up if at all with my irons. Currently, my irons seem to be in a good enough state where my 'bad' shots really aren't that detrimental (not that far off my target). I'll hit balls tomorrow and see if my irons continue to work for me, or not. Historically, I would expect to have a lot of trouble with them tomorrow.
My driver I still can't seem to swing correctly. I am starting to understand how the problems I'm having with my swing are all interconnected, which is probably why it's so difficult to fix everything. The differences between my swing and a 'perfect' swing are surprisingly subtle, yet have a huge effect on the type of shot I get.
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United States24813 Posts
This thread seems to be turning into my personal blog. Oh well.
Today seemed like a very big breakthrough. I'm now hitting my driver and long clubs much higher than I was before. My bad shots look like they will actually be playable, rather than disastrous, for the most part, while my good shots are looking awesome. I still have some work left: I seem to be a bit prone to small pushes and fades right now (the opposite of what I was doing in previous months), but I'm cautiously optimistic. If I can actually hit my clubs with a reasonable trajectory and reasonably towards my target, then I can actually play golf normally.
After the lesson, I walked over to the designated practice hole and hit some 40 yard pitches and 20 foot chips. This is a good sign that I did well enough on the range that it actually felt like there was a point to practicing some short game.
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Ah I missed some posts. Good to hear you're having some progress! It's a nice feeling when you start to see some of the fruits of your improvement! Let's hope it continues!
I actually had a pretty good session on the range today, felt like I was starting to get comfortable with one of the things I've been working on. Then again, I've sadly been able practice so little that it's hard to actually make any progress.
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Been playing golf since having a break of a few years.
Our golf club hosted golf course with a pro for 10 times. It cost me 100 euros. He's a fantastic teacher and for the first time EVER I'm building a solid foundation for my swing, pitching and chipping. This is great because before I'd correct one mistake with another mistake, but now I'm seeking to build something that is consistent and clean. The results have already been pouring in, I'm dropping my handicap every time I go play, and that's with plenty of mistakes to learn from!
This game is so much more fun when you have a direction to go to. I feel like I lucked out, because 100 euros for 10 hours of teaching with a great golf teacher (albeit with other people too, but still) is a bargain!
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Got out for 9 holes today, was able to eek out a 37, despite hitting a lot of really thin drivers.
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United States24813 Posts
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On September 11 2014 20:00 micronesia wrote:
What was par?
36. I was actually -1 through 5 with 3 good looks at birdie, then the whole not practicing much thing caught up with me and I started missing every fairway and green. Thankfully my short game was there for some support or I might have bogeyed all the way in.
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United States24813 Posts
Your lack of recent practice is clearly evident. I could shoot +1 on 9 blindfolded after amputating an arm and a leg. What a noob.
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28104 Posts
One time I was under par...
After the first hole.
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United States24813 Posts
One time I was two under par...
After the first hole.
Not kidding :p
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On September 12 2014 07:30 TheEmulator wrote:
One time I was under par...
After the first hole.
I've never been under par on the first hole from what I can recall. Btw, what is your best round, you're a pretty low index iirc
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The best I have ever been was 3 under Par but I finished on about 5 over par. I get very tired towards the end of the game haha
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On September 13 2014 06:38 Dunmer wrote:
The best I have ever been was 3 under Par but I finished on about 5 over par. I get very tired towards the end of the game haha
Ouch, 33/44 type split. Never fun. Kinda cool when it goes the other way though. I remember in one round of tryouts sophomore year I shot 49/36 to hang around make it on.
I've had 3 truly great rounds.
One I was -4 through 6, but then on the back nine tried way to hard to "guard" the lead and ended up making all kinds of tentative swings, slid back to 71, but it was still really great golf in windy conditions. The next day was even more spectacular, was playing a pretty tough course around here and just tore it apart. Went out in -1 35, but has learned from the previous day and I just tried to keep hunting birdies with good aggressive swings, ended up going -5 31 on the back for a 66. Then next day the fun ended and I shot 87.
My other great one was only a 76, but it was shot in gusty 25-40 mph winds on a course that was 8100 yards. I was really on that day, especially with my putter. Wouldn't be surprised if I made 150+ feet of putts that day.
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EPT
