EPTTL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 31
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
call taxi(wave): 50 fuel points pullup: 0 fuel points | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On January 19 2012 19:03 Kamais Ookin wrote: Something really important that I missed and need opinions on, is the goals I've listed even possible by the end of 2012? If it is then it will give me extra motivation and assurance that I'm not over my head! It's definitely possible except maybe the weighted pull-ups. I've on my 5th month of training and my maxes are 265x5 squat 305x5 dl 175x5 bench 110x5 press 65x1 chin-up at currently 174lb bodyweight If I didn't hurt myself due to bad form and didn't start cutting a month ago, I'm sure I'd be a lot stronger. | ||
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Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On January 20 2012 11:06 Raidern wrote: wtf can you do 65 chin ups at once? sounds like he added 65lbs and repped once. | ||
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
On January 20 2012 02:22 Raidern wrote: When is it time to change from 5x5 to 3x5? When the 4 and 5 sets feel too grueling? edit- ok, I just came across this link (http://bit.ly/wGQA6P) and will use 225 pounds squat as a milestone 225 squat is too low for a milestone, go for 250. gogogo I know you can do it! :D | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On January 20 2012 11:11 Release wrote: sounds like he added 65lbs and repped once. Yeah it was BW+65lbx1 | ||
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AoN.DimSum
United States2983 Posts
On January 20 2012 10:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: 355lb Deadlift @ 168lb body weight today x 3 felt amazing today. Going to the Dominican Republic on the 27th so I need to be getting lean. -48C with windchill here yesterday, going to be a nice vacation. Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. ....what? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
5 almost completely different topics in one post i think. | ||
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
I don't know why, but reading his post and then yours made me laugh harder than I have all week. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
Age: 20 || Height: 6'6"|| Weight: ~190lbs(Will update tomorrow after the gym) Starting Date: 1/20/12 || Goal Date: 8/27/2012 Weight goals -- 205-210lbs Training goals Bench -- 135 (3x5)|| 200 Squat -- ??? (3x5) || ??? Deadlift -- ??? || ??? Press -- ??? (3x5)|| ??? Also a sub 5:30 mile. I ran around a 5 minute mile back as a Sophomore in high school(CC runner). I would like to get back into that kind of aerobic shape again. Wont really start doing that until it warms up around here so March Nutrition goals -- 3500-4000 Cals per day. I have started to drink around a 3/4 gallon of milk per day, so this is pretty easy. Sleep goals -- 12-8AM or 8 hours. Last time I posted in this thread, Oct 2011, I was playing basketball a week later and broke my fibula. Was non weight bearing for around a month and then in a walking boot for another 3 weeks. That pretty much made me lose 10lbs, literally went to my classes and came home and elevated my foot. Everyone here recommends SS. I lifted from like Jan-August of last year and got my bench from a one rep of 125-175. Obviously lost a lot from October through now. I just lifted with some friends 2-3 days a week casually, doing random made up splits. I am not a huge fan of that but I'm not exactly sold on SS either. I am just looking to put on 15-20 Lbs of mostly muscle. Are there any other routines out there I could look at or is SS the only one you guys would recommend. Worth noting that I plan on eating a ton more this time through. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On January 20 2012 14:06 Release wrote: 5 almost completely different topics in one post i think. Man re-reading my post, wtf S; ... Although I do think everything is connected in my post besides the first paragraph, it's just tricky to keep up with ^__^ | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On January 20 2012 10:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: 355lb Deadlift @ 168lb body weight today x 3 felt amazing today. Going to the Dominican Republic on the 27th so I need to be getting lean. -48C with windchill here yesterday, going to be a nice vacation. Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. You will never find the perfect beginning program but SS is one of the best ones. Now, the reason SS is not popular is because 95% of the average people you see in the gym don't give a flying fuck about strength, they just want the biggest muscles possible on the shortest amount of time imaginable. For just gaining muscle you are indeed correct, the "bro routine" is likely to give you more muscle mass than SS, because the purpose of SS is to build Strength and give you a good base. The reason SS is one of the best (beginner)routines is just because it builds strength, and a lot of it. Say that you've done SS for 4-6 months and now you go into more bodybuilding type stuff. You will now be a lot stronger than the guy who's been doing the "bro routine" from day 1, this means you can lift more weight than him. Heavier weights => Greater hypertrophy meaning you WILL pass the "bro routine" guy in the long run. You can get big/strong doing basically anything. You probably won't ever be the biggest or the strongest just doing random shit, but that's probably not the goal of someone doing random shit either. The difference is how much time you have to invest to get there between a good and a bad routine. But yeah, people on here tend to be a bit quick on the "lol retard routine do SS" kind of thing, and as someone who never did SS this pains me a little bit but I don't really care. If you don't want to do SS don't do SS, I got my friend on SS and he did it for 2 months, then he wanted to change programs because he thought it was boring and wanted bigger muscles. Now I didn't tell him "lol are you dumb? keep doing SS until your gains stop" I told him he should probably change routine because I know if he thinks going to the gym is boring, he'll gladly take any excuse to skip a session and he probably won't give it his all. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4754 Posts
On January 20 2012 10:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: 355lb Deadlift @ 168lb body weight today x 3 felt amazing today. Going to the Dominican Republic on the 27th so I need to be getting lean. -48C with windchill here yesterday, going to be a nice vacation. Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. The SS as the best of all things attitude can be annoying in here, I agree with you. But the tangent you are on is just wrong. SS/Bill Star 5x5 gives you ugly skin? Come on, what kind of bullshit is that. If you don't want to be big, don't eat big and get stronger/bigger slower. And some guy growing big triceps by doing weightless dips does not prove anything. My pretty massive body-builder friend (who is probably on some drugs as well) gives the utmost attention to his triceps because it is basically not visible and laughable compared to his other muscle groups. He is doing Bench Press, mass reps weightless dips, shoulder presses and whatnot in mid to high rep ranges, but nothing is growing. So maybe all of these are not good for developing a big triceps? Anecdotal evidence is always anecdotal evidence. Unless you are a coach the only thing you have to account for is what works for you. If you are happy with your results, continue doing what you are doing,and maybe try if weightless dips are also good for you afterwards  | ||
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
On January 20 2012 10:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: 355lb Deadlift @ 168lb body weight today x 3 felt amazing today. Going to the Dominican Republic on the 27th so I need to be getting lean. -48C with windchill here yesterday, going to be a nice vacation. Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Leangains isn't looked down upon there are quite a few people who use it. If the guy ate like shit while on 5x5 yeah skin can get messy, it's his own fault eat quality food and your skin will thank you. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. That's just not true, if you don't get stretch marks from getting fat, the fat will just go away. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. And not a single picture was posted that day. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. I personally don't care much about strength, looks is all I care, so I was opposed to SS at first and never did it. In hindsight I should have done it as a beginner, would be much much smarter then starting with a split. It's pretty easy to get ripped or a little muscular, but if you wanna be really big as a natural athlete you have to be strong, I realised this now. Just look at all the big (hopefully) natural guys, Layne Norton, Plyoathlete and some oly/powerlifters. Every single one is strong as hell. And SS or SL will give you the best base for that. Why most people don't do SS or SL is probably because it's heavy work and heavily focuses the lower body. I know quite a few people who train and say "but i don't wanna get big legs it looks stupid". For me it became live and let live, everyone has different goals, some just wanna get a big pair of arms and a chest, they can do chest/biceps 3 times a day, I don't care. But I believe if you truly wanna be big and muscular you need to get strong and so I would put anyone who asks for that advice on SL. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On January 20 2012 14:55 Kamais Ookin wrote: Basically to sum things up I want to gain 40lbs by the end of this year and I think that's possible but I don't know if I should just continue with the GOMAD 4k~ calories diet or if that won't be sufficient enough.I have a question for bulking up. GOMAD is great and all but a thought crossed my mind. Milk is the little boy's stuff, isn't it all about chocolate milk? If I GOMAD chocolate milk I'd get close to 4k calories off of it alone. With everything else I eat in the day, I can get 6k+ calories everyday. Opinions on this? Will I turn beastly if I do this? | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On January 20 2012 10:16 FiWiFaKi wrote: 355lb Deadlift @ 168lb body weight today x 3 felt amazing today. Going to the Dominican Republic on the 27th so I need to be getting lean. -48C with windchill here yesterday, going to be a nice vacation. Why are lean-gains looked down upon here? I definitely would not want to do a program that pretty much makes me put on fat, and eating a good controlled diet isn't really difficult... Actually the reason I bring this up is because I was talking to someone at the gym today who was complaining to me about Starr's 5x5 because it made his skin ugly. Biologically it makes sense too, fat cells never disappear, they just shrink A LOT but you're still left with that ugly skin that gets rashes easier, doesn't tan equally, is more flabby etc. The more and more I read and hear peoples experiences the more I feel SS/similar programs are the lazy mans quick solution to putting on muscle mass. I myself am not big, but compared to the people in my gym, I can sincerely say I'm one of the few who don't look like shit, maybe it's me caring too much about aesthetics, and I do think once most peoples progress stops or slows down greatly, people will strive for aesthetics much more than lift gains. I feel like every other week now I'm bad-mouthing SS, but if it's just the perfect weightlifting program, it WOULD be more popular. Very few people know about it, and the ones that do is all from the internet, the reason being I think, is the internet demographics values strength over visual appeal a lot more than... other people. I dislike how people don't even seem to give the other routines a chance. For 5 months I've done my compound + isolation "bro workout" and compared to the people here, I think my progress was better, and I was a little scrawny kid when I started too. Hell, today I saw someone doing dips between two benches, legs on one bench (you know which one)... Anyways he had massive triceps (his arms around 18-19 inches), and I came to ask him if he has any tips. He says "Yeah man, for my triceps, I just do these dips, it isolates them more." I ask him how many reps does do you usually do? "As many as I can!" So you don't add any weight? "Nah, I've never added weight, just keep increasing reps". Anyways he goes to do 20 of these dips, takes a maybe 45 second breather, and he does it again. He told me he always did these types of exercises. Many people here would think "lol what an idiot", but seriously, real life experience has their merit, I just hate the attitude of anything but SS is bad for a beginner. 1. Where you from in Canada that it gets that cold lol out east? In the maritimes cold day is usually -30 with windchill. 2. If you go to Mcdonalds every day and work out you will probably get flabby. But with good diet and working hard it can definitely be removed, not permanent at all unless your pushing the morbidly obese category in which you will need surgery to remove skin. 3. I don't see how squatting heavy 3 times a week is a lazy mans solution o_O. Also when your making a point you don't have to bash other people in our little TLHF forum with things like this "compared to the people here, I think my progress was better". You could just say you had great results. (Also now got me curious what your workout was/your compound gains/pics) 4. I think SS/SL is over hyped in this forum, but that's because a lot of people around here used it with success, of course they would recommend it and be excited about it. Same as when you see a big guy doing a certain workout you see it worked for him so you wanted to try it. Also its a great started program cause it requires only 3 days a week, is really easy to track progress with 5 exercises (rather than like 20 on a split/compound). 5. Coming from someone who has tried compound/isolation splits for years in and out of the gym with decent gains. I never seen quick gains like SL and never had higher motivation due to the fact I was always going heavier. But really in the end its up to consistency. As long as you consistently go to the gym and are doing a program that works for you its fine. One of my biggest/strongest friend does compound/isolation random workout change every few months, but he works hard every time hes there 5 days a week and never misses a workout in almost 5 years. Lol just my two cents on your comments. | ||
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