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Okay first off, most Marines are NOT running 15 min for 3 miles, let alone 5k. I'd venture to guess 18-21 min for 3 miles is the common spread, with the average probably towards the north end of that. Most people I run into that are fitness oriented, but not aerobic specific, more general strength/looks can run around high 5/low 6 for the mile, which is in the neighborhood of 19:30-21 for a 3 mile run. Also, when you consider the focus of most military people it isn't on being a good distance runner, it's on being strong and powerful.
15 min 3 mile is good enough for collegiate D1, and unless your talent is off the charts, you don't get there without a runners physique and lots of serious training for several years. I'll leave it at this. If a single person in your BMT runs under 15:30 minutes for the 3M run, I'll send you $5. 
Onto the more important stuff:
Now running a mile in 6 - 7 minutes
Where exactly? There is a HUGE difference between 6:00 and 6:59.
On July 12 2013 12:18 AirbladeOrange wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:36 Snuggles wrote:
I want to be broken down, every little bit of me. I've tried before to change myself, but I just go straight back to my bad habits. It's been like that for years. I need to change, and if the Marine boot camp can't do it for me, then shit I don't know what will.
Also I might've jumped the gun on the 20 min 5k run minimum. It's actually 28 minutes! But of course I will still shoot for 20 minutes, I have to learn discipline. So are you running 4 days a week? Give us a rundown of exactly what you're doing right now.
Pretty much this. We need the answer to that question and then we can make a good informed decision about how to proceed. The good news is you have left yourself plenty of time, so as long as you stay focused I'm quite certain you can be running at least low 20's or better in 10 months time.
I'm thinking about running on days I lift as well, but in a timeslot far from when I lift,
You can do this if it is convienient from a time standpoint...but it isn't necessary to split the running and lifting at different times. I find if I go for a nice aerobic run after a strength session I feel much more recovered the days following with significantly less less DOMS.
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United States1865 Posts
Yeah L_Master that was my mistake for taking my buddy too seriously, and definitely jumped the gun on what I was reading. Him and many other sources were just embellishing what it actually was like. That's not to say that people never did make those times, but yeah, it can't be common, because jesus 15 min is ridiculous man. 18 min is the lowest time for the most points on the PFT, and the points change in 10 second intervals.
I am running 4 days a week ATM. But I'm looking to do more. I don't know how you can get less DOMS from running right after a workout, but more specifically a leg work out. When I finish doing squats and deadlifts my knees are buckling and don't want to even support my bodyweight @_@.
EDIT: more specifically I'm running 4 days a week, 3 miles each time, going easy with the same pace (5 for the first two, 6 with 1/4 a mile to go) for each mile. I'm planning to get off the dreadmill and onto the track with a timer on my wrist or something.
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Him and many other sources were just embellishing what it actually was like.
In my experience with many military guys, it's not so much they are bullshitting, it's more they just don't realize it. It's like hey we are running pretty hard, we are probably running six minute miles. Which then becomes 6 flat over time as details are forgotten.
And it isn't like there are no people at all that can run those times, it's just going to be very rare, especially when we start talking 15 min times or 16 min times, I'm sure some of the fit + leaner builds can run 17 no problem and then some fit guys with runner talent probably run 18/19 alot.
I'm planning to get off the dreadmill and onto the track with a timer on my wrist or something.
I'd say get off the track too. Go run somewhere nice and cruise by feel. When we start adding in workouts that is the time to get to the track. While you are building your base and increasing the mileage just enjoy it baby!
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United States1865 Posts
Hmm in that case I'll try heading out on my high school's old cross country route. It cuts through neighborhoods, it was one of the most pleasant running experiences I ever had. Nice and quiet around familiar surroundings, it was really peaceful. There were some spots of elevation but not too big of a deal. I always wondered how people mapped out their routes, my school did it for me back then but if I'm on my own I feel like I would have to bring out google maps or something to make sure I'm getting the right mileage.
So do you suggest I just working increasing mileage to start off? I was thinking of working towards 6 miles a run at the easy pace I'm going at. I really don't know how far I can go at the pace I'm going at tbh, usually half an hour on the dreadmill can make me very very bored... then moving outside is a totally different experience. Different elevations, things that can distract me, etc.
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I would say an increase of 3-5 miles per week is pretty reasonable. I'm a big fan of 3 weeks up, 1 down. So you might go 15, 18, 20; then back to 15, then 23, 25, 30; then back to 20.
If you don't know exact distance you can just run roughly by time and/or grab google earth and map the route out after you ran it. I know Wisconsin does a system were they don't actually add up miles. They use "badger miles" and basically for general runs it's just go by time and divide by 7 for miles run.
So if you are doing 12 miles now, I would first go to 5, or ideally six days a week. Then just start adding on miles. It would look something like this
3,3,3,3,3
3,4,4,3,5
4,4,5,3,6
3,3,4,3
5,4,5,3,6
5,5,6,4,7
Doesn't have to be exactly that...but gives you a basic idea.
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United States1865 Posts
That's a really nice template to go by,
I'm eyeballing the
4,4,5,3,6
3,3,4,3
3 to 6 is a challenge. I have been working out normally before coming back to TLH&F so I have some degree of fitness, I'm sure as hell that that 6 mile day is going to be very interesting lol. I trust your advice so the first 3,3,3,3,3,3 is going to be outside on the cross country course to get a feel for it.
As always thank you for the advice. On the internet you see all kinds of crap, people spouting stupid stuff. But here I'm honestly looking for solid advice to something that I really want to do with my life. Things have to change for me, and your help makes it all more possible. Thanks man.
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United States24701 Posts
I'm jealous... I need a good place to run outside. The only places I know of where it's actually safe for me to listen to music are on tracks, which get boring real quick. I can think of places that would probably be nice but they are farther away than I'm willing to go to run.
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The 6 won't be bad. It just sounds big now because you are used only to three. After doing some 4M and 5M runs...6M is just another 9 or 10 minutes. It's also meant to be a slightly longer run than the others.
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humn i think i need to visit a doctor... : / started having pain in my knee last two runs after 5-6 kilometers.
The first run i stopped and walked the rest. The 2nd run after a few days break i finnished with hardly any pain in my knee during the run but quiet some pain afterwards while walking stairs etc.
So far the pain was both times gone the day after but i guess i should still visit a doc to diagnose it.
My plan of running at least 4 times a week 10-12 km didnt really work out either and i ended up running usualy three times a week . My goal was to run a 10k race in the beginning of octobore sub 50 mins which i should be able to do now already though. Ah well i guess my knee might slow down my training efforts now
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On July 12 2013 10:24 Snuggles wrote:
Well I think this is the first time I actually have a fitness goal. I've been thinking about it really hard for a month. By the end of the spring semester after I graduate from coolidge I'm going to the Marines. But I have to be the fittest I've ever been in my entire life to make it through the physical part.
So I need to run 3 miles in 20 minutes, minimum. I was here a while ago and got help to get myself started on running. Went from barely able to do a mile to being comfortable running a mile in 10. Now running a mile in 6 - 7 minutes... running a 5k at that pace??????? That's going to be the biggest physical challenge in my life.
I've already started running again, going easy of course, did the 5k in around 35 minutes, so yeah I have a lot to work on... What do you guys recommend me to do in order to get to that level? I have 10 months to prepare. I also lift 3 days a week, and currently run on my rest days. I'm thinking about running on days I lift as well, but in a timeslot far from when I lift, Possibly, run in the morning before work, and then lift after work.
I didn't think I would have to run so hard to be a Marine, I thought it would only be a 30 minute 3 mile run which is completely okay, but my Marine friend who told me about the PFT said people were running 3 miles in 15, 18 , 20, 21 min on average @_@.
You don't need to run 3 miles in 20 minutes minimum in order to meet USMC's physical fitness standards; it's 28 minutes for males between 17 - 26. Even for the Marines, 3 miles in 20 minutes is just way too high as a minimum. Your "friend" is either buffing up being a Marine or just doesn't know the standards. More can be read up on here:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/blfitmale.htm
Edit: Whoops, seems that was already pointed out.
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On July 12 2013 04:34 BirdKiller wrote:
Just to follow up on this, it's best to listen to music with a BPM that's comparable to your steps per minute (SPM) that you're striving for. If this song just suddenly popped into my playlist, I would either tire myself out real fast (not good), fight my mental side in order to control my speed (not good), or just feel plain awkward as my SPM is out of sync with BPM (would just weird me out).
I find running with music quite similar to breathing rhythm, when I started out running my breath frequency would always be synced with my SPM, at higher intensity i I would go from 1b/4s up to 2b/3s. At fast pace you would here me like a beatbox-train form afar (bad technique+heavy breathing).
But as for running with music (not in races, or rather my first 10k race) I got used to it, after some time. I listen to either 130+bpm generic running/fitness music or music without much time signature though.
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On July 12 2013 17:08 Rhodry wrote:
humn i think i need to visit a doctor... : / started having pain in my knee last two runs after 5-6 kilometers.
The first run i stopped and walked the rest. The 2nd run after a few days break i finnished with hardly any pain in my knee during the run but quiet some pain afterwards while walking stairs etc.
So far the pain was both times gone the day after but i guess i should still visit a doc to diagnose it.
My plan of running at least 4 times a week 10-12 km didnt really work out either and i ended up running usualy three times a week . My goal was to run a 10k race in the beginning of octobore sub 50 mins which i should be able to do now already though. Ah well i guess my knee might slow down my training efforts now
Could potienally be your shoes! How old are they? Maybe you need to change them. Normally, you switch them after ~700km, depends on the shoes and on your running syle, wheight, etc.
Are you just using one pair? You should buy 2-3 and switch them up.
And in the end, how many years of running experience do you have? Keep in mind that your bones and especially your joints take longer to adapt. Can take up to a few years until you can cope with higher mileages.
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Even for the Marines, 3 miles in 20 minutes is just way too high as a minimum.
Maybe this is the elitist in me speaking...but when I think of the marine group I think of some of a nations toughest soldiers. If you can't even run 6:40 pace for 3 miles...well that just isn't in good shape at all. To me 20 minutes is a pretty reasonable minimum. It's enough that you are in shape, but not so much that only a serious, committed runner can meet it. Personally, I feel even the AF/Navy standards ought to be something like 10:30 for 1.5M.
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Does anyone else prefer to run in the rain when it's hot outside? My roommate looked at me like I had 5 heads when I came in soaked from a run this morning and I was just having a blast. I wouldn't do speedwork but for LSD or tempo's it's great. I mean if the humidity is already going to be 95% what's the difference.
idk, just random thoughts after I remembered that this thread existed :D
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On July 13 2013 09:55 Badfatpanda wrote:
Does anyone else prefer to run in the rain when it's hot outside? My roommate looked at me like I had 5 heads when I came in soaked from a run this morning and I was just having a blast. I wouldn't do speedwork but for LSD or tempo's it's great. I mean if the humidity is already going to be 95% what's the difference.
idk, just random thoughts after I remembered that this thread existed :D
I love running in all forms of inclement weather aside from lightning and large hail. It just adds an "epic" feel to the run and makes it quite entertaining. I'm one of those whackos who gets a kick out of the people in their cars looking at me like I am crazy when I'm running around outside in 15 degree weather with snow blotting visibility to a hundred feet.
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United States24701 Posts
On July 13 2013 07:19 L_Master wrote:
Personally, I feel even the AF/Navy standards ought to be something like 10:30 for 1.5M.
The 'excellent' rating is 10:30, although you only need 13:30 to pass the initial test before you start training at basic.
Although I'm not sure what the point is of trying to stiffen PRT standards in isolation of any other changes.
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The point of the changes in isolation is that that aspect of the PFT is the only one that measures aerobic fitness, so a change there forces a higher standard of aerobic fitness.
13:30 as a minimum is a bit silly. That's 9:00 pace for an all out effort, and if that is one's fitness then jogging for 4-5 miles at 10:00 pace would be pretty difficult...and that's not much of a pace, particularly for a combat situation.
Moreover, looking at the presidential fitness award stuff, they peg the 50th percentile of 17 year old kids at 7:04 for 1M, aka 11:00 for 1.5M. The fact that an "excellent" score for our military is only marginally higher than the national median of 17 year olds is nothing short of comical in my opinion. I would think a passing score should be something like top 1/3 at least (better than average fitness), and excellent would be top 10-15%.
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United States24701 Posts
I'm not sure why you think the entry requirements should be stiffened. The graduation requirements might make more sense, in general (although those numbers are comparable to the ones you suggested).
Stiffening the entry requirements doesn't make a stronger navy (or whatever branch). It just means more people are going to fail their initial PRT. You might argue that stricter standards means most incoming recruits are going to work harder prior to starting at training and get into better shape. However, many newcomers are already failing despite the current standards, so I don't think it would help.
If you think the military should only take people near the top of their 'class' in physical condition, then you are essentially arguing for a much smaller military... which is a viable opinion, I suppose. I think what matters more is the shape soldiers are in after their training.
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Ah, I wasn't clear. I mean that the passing standards for graduating BMT and for the general military physical test. As far as I know there is no minimum standard to get into BMT. You can be in 20 minute mile shape and still enter...you just probably wont pass, I could be wrong here...but I haven't heard of required entry, only of recommended fitness pre entry.
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On July 13 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:55 Badfatpanda wrote:
Does anyone else prefer to run in the rain when it's hot outside? My roommate looked at me like I had 5 heads when I came in soaked from a run this morning and I was just having a blast. I wouldn't do speedwork but for LSD or tempo's it's great. I mean if the humidity is already going to be 95% what's the difference.
idk, just random thoughts after I remembered that this thread existed :D I love running in all forms of inclement weather aside from lightning and large hail. It just adds an "epic" feel to the run and makes it quite entertaining. I'm one of those whackos who gets a kick out of the people in their cars looking at me like I am crazy when I'm running around outside in 15 degree weather with snow blotting visibility to a hundred feet.
This, so much. You gotta feel like a hero sometimes.
It's race day for me. 9,2k, 4 laps. The race is organized by my town and is highly advertised so there should be a recognizable crowd cheering for us. My goal is to run at the same pace like last week (4:32 min/km).
The ~10k "season" is over after that. I'm going to come back to ask for advice on how to approach my HM training.
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EPT
