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Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 13:58:42
June 09 2017 13:57 GMT
#33501
I've had a few games where the deck just completely blanks after turn 5 or so. Other games its been how did I complete this quest on turn 3 (Or have a 12/12 van cleef :3 but that's just rogue) Might be my list though, I just netdecked and queued and been learning.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 14:30:29
June 09 2017 14:27 GMT
#33502
Heads up if anyone wants some cheap over-ear headphones:
Today's meh.com deal

On June 09 2017 22:49 phyvo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [quest rogue rant] +
Man I dislike the design of rogue quest so much. It feels like it misses the whole point of bouncing battlecries. There's interesting battlecry stuff above 1 mana but you don't see any of it because bouncing 1 mana 5/5s for value and chargers is better because everything has been turned into a bland 5/5. And what's worse quest rogue seems explicitly designed to blow up any non-optimal meme deck. You can tech your meme deck against aggro or control as you wish but there's no way for a lot of classes to tech a deck against quest rogue aside from aggroing their face. It's just dumb, in practice a faster-killing jade deck.

I've played more rogue than anything else but quest rogue sucks.


Yeah, Giuseppe and I have been talking about it a lot recently. It's just too non-interactive, you can't do anything to affect the tempo of the game.

But I think the more frustrating part for me is that it requires 3 cards to complete your quest - any 1-drop, 2 return-to-hands. Beyond that, it's just "well, I hope I draw what I need to kill him by turn 6"
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
June 09 2017 14:28 GMT
#33503
On June 09 2017 22:49 phyvo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [quest rogue rant] +
Man I dislike the design of rogue quest so much. It feels like it misses the whole point of bouncing battlecries. There's interesting battlecry stuff above 1 mana but you don't see any of it because bouncing 1 mana 5/5s for value and chargers is better because everything has been turned into a bland 5/5. And what's worse quest rogue seems explicitly designed to blow up any non-optimal meme deck. You can tech your meme deck against aggro or control as you wish but there's no way for a lot of classes to tech a deck against quest rogue aside from aggroing their face. It's just dumb, in practice a faster-killing jade deck.

I've played more rogue than anything else but quest rogue sucks.

My biggest gripe with quest rogue is how it basically turns the game into solitaire.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
June 09 2017 14:43 GMT
#33504
Somebody still needs to try Faeria so I can finish the play a game against a friend quest.

Making friends is hard okay.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
June 09 2017 16:01 GMT
#33505
On June 09 2017 23:28 Jek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 22:49 phyvo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [quest rogue rant] +
Man I dislike the design of rogue quest so much. It feels like it misses the whole point of bouncing battlecries. There's interesting battlecry stuff above 1 mana but you don't see any of it because bouncing 1 mana 5/5s for value and chargers is better because everything has been turned into a bland 5/5. And what's worse quest rogue seems explicitly designed to blow up any non-optimal meme deck. You can tech your meme deck against aggro or control as you wish but there's no way for a lot of classes to tech a deck against quest rogue aside from aggroing their face. It's just dumb, in practice a faster-killing jade deck.

I've played more rogue than anything else but quest rogue sucks.

My biggest gripe with quest rogue is how it basically turns the game into solitaire.


See, this would be one of my gripes, but I'm a huge mill rogue fan and people complained about mill for exactly the same reason (although IMO mill wasn't nearly as bad, when I went up against other mill players with non-mill decks I rarely got frustrated the way I do vs quest).

I should probably play more wild but I still refuse to craft Dr. Boom.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
June 09 2017 16:15 GMT
#33506
What makes Quest Rogue different from Mill Rogue or Freeze Mage is that you have 5 turns versus drawing entire decks, and a lack of tech options. With other "solitaire" decks you're probably going to draw most of your deck before you lose, meaning you're probably going to draw your tech cards. Quest Rogue doesn't give you many tech options, nor the chance to draw them, so you have to mulligan hard for tech/tempo and hope.

Dr. Boom isn't a necessary card for Wild. He's still a good card, but there's been enough power creep since GvG that he's not the overwhelming force he once was.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
June 10 2017 02:14 GMT
#33507
I prefer Miracle Rogue, well... the Sherazin/Giants miracle rogue, not the all-in one that goes as far as playing the "give you 2x bloom petals or whatever their name is" spell and can drop both arcane giants on turn 6.
It gives me the right amount of synergies and tempo and tension to have fun while still remaining somewhat competitive.

Screw quest mage tho, at least quest rogue works this way because it's been built for it. I've lost more games to RNG providing the right (damage+mana) board clear, or discovering another ice block, etc. than I've lost to a quest rogue having a god hand.

Quick write-up for paper card game:
+ Show Spoiler +
12-man pod again, though I wouldn't have minded 2x 6-man (esp. with only 5 of us veterans, we could have had decently balanced pods).

P1P1 between Lord of the Accursed and Scaled Behemoth, Lord requires zombies but I like it more so I take it. 2nd pick is Start // Finish and I feel encouraged to stay in BW if I can, then P1P3 gives me a choice between Insult // Injury and Trial of Solidarity.
... what.
Pack was opened by the store clerk who played to even our numbers, I think it was his 2nd or 3rd draft? He took Magma Spray over it, no idea what my neighbour picked. Either way it makes me think BW and BR could be wide open, especially with a P1P4 Stir the Sands.

Then B and R both dry up, G is nothing special and U is wide open but well... it's U (I picked up Rags // Riches but that's because I'm in B and have a lord). I'm picking up as much B as I can, a Cartouche, a couple Wander in Death, etc. since with nothing wheeling I feel like it's more important to stay open and cut hard enough to make sure your colour should be open.
P2P1 is Archfiend of Ifnir so rewarded I guess? I'm still on the BW plan if I can but I can absolutely no W at all (wth?) and not many R cards, though there's a Merciless Javelineer which I'm really tempted to take. I'm sending a million Hooded Brawlers downstream, pick up a Deem Worthy...
Seeing how W is never gonna be open and R is lacking in this pack, I notice that I actually have more U playables (though of ridiculously lower quality than my W/R) partly due to the end of pack 1 and I cave in, seeing more enablers for the Archfiend showing up (plus it has some embalm too).

Very late in the pack I get hooked up with Approach of the Second Sun and Pull From Tomorrow.
Merciless Javelineer wheels and I take it P2P12, wtf.

Pack 3 I pick up some more U to shore up my curve and playables, Shadowstorm Vizier, etc. but I also see another Javelineer, 2 Grim Striders in a row (I pick up the 1st, but I'm biased as I love that card while my hand is supposed to be filled by cycling), I pick a Gust Walker very early over Fan-Bearer, and I send a Time to Reflect and Sweltering Suns (+ Warfire Javelineer in that same pack, RIP UR drafters) downstream.

Final pool has Start // Finish, Trial of Solidarity, Approach in W vs Deem Worthy, 2x Merciless Javelineer, Canyon Slough in R. It's a cycling deck... so after talking a bit with other players I go with W, and cut the Trial as I'm not aggressive. I guess that choice between Insult // Injury and the Trial P1P3 ended up not mattering, uh. I even cut the Lord from lack of zombies.
The usual winner, 2 sits to my left, was in BW in pack 1 too despite the lack of W, off of P1P2 Wayward Servant. He cut all the W that I half-expected to see pack 2, which wasn't plentiful but high quality (Outcast, Time to Reflect, etc.), and still a bunch of B (Splendid Agony x2, I didn't see even one in the whole draft) then pack 3 he got hooked up with all the W I left through (couple In Oketra's Name, a Fan-Bearer, Those Who Serve, another Time, etc.). Not sure if I got punished or if he simply had a better sit than me for BW, what with being further from the W drafters.

My deck ends up with 3x Seekers of Insight, Vizier of Tumbling Sands, 2x Wander in Death, but my interaction is limited to Cartouche of Ambition and Winds of Rebuke, so proactive/aggro is very scary. Also no Illuminations or things like that.
Then of course there's Rags // Riches, Archfiend of Ifnir, Pull From Tomorrow, Approach of the Second Sun.

Match 1 vs GB
I win 2-0 off the back of Rags // Riches, with both of us flooding (and he had to cycle 2x Greater Sandwurms earlier so less top end). First game he kills his Initiate's Companion for a 4/3 Ammit so Riches is a virtual 3-for-1, w/o counting Rags' initial value. Game 2 he plays around it more but it allows me to find something to double block his Plague Belcher and stabilise, and I find most of my bombs after casting Pull for X=5 (I'd been flooding prior to that and suddenly most of my bombs appeared in that batch).

Match 2 vs RW aggro/burn
Game 1 starts with Bloodlust Inciter on the play. He proceeds to miss his 3rd land drop till turn 5, but hasty Emberhorn Minotaur against a couple 1/3s is still a beating, especially when he plays Sparring Mummy next turn, grants it haste, and exerts the minotaur again. Through dubious blocks I manage to survive till I draw Approach, and I then try to cycle as hard as I can, taking 3 turns to win. Bit lucky as I played to my outs and he didn't have Insult // Injury nor Manticore of the Gauntlet when I was down to 2 life.
Game 2 I get a worse start and turn 6 Insult // Injury kills me after I had to chump a couple times.
Game 3 was the most interesting of the evening, as I didn't have an early play but neither did he (t2 Inciter is still an early Inciter but so much better for me than Entangler).
Turn 3 Vizier of Tumbling Sands, t4 Seeker of Insight, I have Rags // Riches in hand but only a single Swamp, so I'm thinking about casting it using the Vizier to untap the swamp, with the Seeker available to cycle. His board is Inciter + Minotaur Sureshot (which I can't block with my x/3s) and I have a Cartouche of Ambition in hand. Counter from Cartouche + Rags should kill about anything.
I miss the t4 play of untapping a land to cast the Cartouche shrinking the Minotaur and making attacks unlikely, then t5 Rags untapping the swamp if I don't draw one. I pass and immediatly regret it as I find the (obvious) line during his upkeep. Instead, when I do it next turn targeting the Minotaur while he has a Thresher Lizard in play, my opponent guesses that I've got Rags and plays a Cartouche of Zeal on the Lizard to put it out of range. I'll never kill the lizard until very late because of that (he kept Mighty Leap mana each turn in case I tried to block his small creatures, so he saved one from Rags too).
I find the Approach and dig super hard, using Pull + Seeker activation for 4 cards during blocks, finding stuff like Archfiend... but it's not enough and Approach is the next card after my draw. I choose to discard Wander in Death, then comes my turn and I draw my Winds of Rebuke... making it deader than a basic land. I have the mana to cast Archfiend and cycle only because I didn't discard a land, and I don't have another cycler to shrink his board.
It doesn't matter anyway as my opponent drops Manticore of the Gauntlet + Cartouche of Zeal, so I've got one effective blocker to 3 creatures and am at 2 life.
If I didn't misplay that turn 4 he'd have walked the lizard into Rags and I'd have easily saved 8+ life over the course of the game (then not had to double-block it), which would have bought me the turn to win. Only got myself to blame on that one.

Match 3 vs BW removal
A bit to the left of the other BW player, he's got 3x Final Reward, what.
Game 1 gets pretty aggro with Glory-bound Initiative, Binding Mummy, a couple zombies and Spearmasters. I get by with the Cartouche of Ambition and Shadowstorm Vizier surviving 3/x attackers when I have cyclers, and win off Approach after stabilising (read: massively discard in a single turn after finding Sniper to get rid of a 3/3 flyer while on 2 life, using Seeker of Insight and Vizier of Tumbling Sands 'cause not drawing cyclers).
Game 2 I go t1 Ruthless Sniper, t2 lose it to Supernatural Stamina when I cycle to let it block a 2/2, t3 Seeker of Insight, t4 Scorpion that I then sac to Trial of Ambition. Turn 5 goes Wander in Death, get back both creatures, replay Sniper, loot with Seeker and pay with my last land for the Sniper trigger. Sniper then eats a Final Reward. He did his job wonderfully, although I placed my counter on a bear instead of the exerted 3/1, thinking I'd have a turn to handle it). After Rags wipes the board, I cast Pull for X=3 and find Archfiend. From there, I climb back from 4 or so life by dropping Cartouche of Ambition on it and attacking, with Approach slowly getting back to the top of my deck. My opponent went from 33 life to 8 despite drawing Glory-bound Initiate and I was at 30+ myself when he scooped.

That somehow gave me 3rd place, with my round 2 opponent ending 2nd because he was paired down for round 3. 12-man pods are weird.

TL;DR:
- 12-man pods feel like sealed where you start by opening great bombs then don't play them 'cause these colours aren't supported enough
- Rags // Riches and Archfiend of Ifnir in my pool before I move into U (because it was the only option left, with bomb BR/BW cards but not the quantity)
- with Approach, Sniper and Pull From Tomorrow picked later, my deck felt like "play several bombs/strong rares and add every cycling/draw effects to get them asap." Which is every UB deck I've seen actually perform decently.
- Seeker of Insight is a garbage blocker but still feels important and the consistency of having 3 played a big part in the above context
- now I can say I've been able to play the typical good UB deck, but I'm still "salty" over missing the opportunity to play a sweet BR deck with 2x Grim Strider and 2x Javelineer (left neighbour picked up 2x Bloodrage Brawler too!)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
June 10 2017 02:39 GMT
#33508
On June 09 2017 23:43 Ketara wrote:
Somebody still needs to try Faeria so I can finish the play a game against a friend quest.

Making friends is hard okay.


maybe in a week once I'm done with finals I'll check it out.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 10 2017 02:57 GMT
#33509
On June 10 2017 01:15 Seuss wrote:
What makes Quest Rogue different from Mill Rogue or Freeze Mage is that you have 5 turns versus drawing entire decks, and a lack of tech options. With other "solitaire" decks you're probably going to draw most of your deck before you lose, meaning you're probably going to draw your tech cards. Quest Rogue doesn't give you many tech options, nor the chance to draw them, so you have to mulligan hard for tech/tempo and hope.

Dr. Boom isn't a necessary card for Wild. He's still a good card, but there's been enough power creep since GvG that he's not the overwhelming force he once was.



Mill Rogue at least had that thing where once you recognized what was happening, no matter what your deck was you could play around it.

Quest doesnt have that luxury, you h ave to mulligan for quest rogue every rogue, unless you are an aggro deck, or you just lose if they draw well.

Freeze mage is always and will forever be the devil though.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
June 10 2017 03:11 GMT
#33510
On June 10 2017 11:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2017 01:15 Seuss wrote:
What makes Quest Rogue different from Mill Rogue or Freeze Mage is that you have 5 turns versus drawing entire decks, and a lack of tech options. With other "solitaire" decks you're probably going to draw most of your deck before you lose, meaning you're probably going to draw your tech cards. Quest Rogue doesn't give you many tech options, nor the chance to draw them, so you have to mulligan hard for tech/tempo and hope.

Dr. Boom isn't a necessary card for Wild. He's still a good card, but there's been enough power creep since GvG that he's not the overwhelming force he once was.



Mill Rogue at least had that thing where once you recognized what was happening, no matter what your deck was you could play around it.

Quest doesnt have that luxury, you h ave to mulligan for quest rogue every rogue, unless you are an aggro deck, or you just lose if they draw well.

Freeze mage is always and will forever be the devil though.

The main thing that makes quest rogue different from mill rogue is that mill rogue was a complete garbage deck while quest rogue is S tier
I don't think that presence of retardedly lopsided deck counters like Golakka Crawler or Eater of Secrets makes dominant decks more sufferable either.
As you say, what makes a deck somewhat fun to play against (if playing HS could ever be described as fun) it's options and decisions.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 10 2017 04:01 GMT
#33511
Feels good when you are jade rogue and hit 5/5 jades before quest rogue hits their quest though.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-10 16:39:36
June 10 2017 16:38 GMT
#33512
So I've been catching up on the competitive LoL scene again thanks to the meme team, and apparently Riot and people in the LoL community are starting to refer to any bottom lane carry as an ADC regardless of whether or not they build any AD items, do physical damage, sustained damage, or are good vs turrets, even though the acronym makes no literal sense whatsoever in that situations.

Like, I know language changes, but could it please just *not* change in such a stupid way in such a short amount of time? Please at least use an acronym for 10 years before you completely abandon the literal meaning of what it stands for. and make things even more confusing for people who don't play your game.

What the crap is with Riot's apparently ironclad control of terminology in the game anyways?
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23448 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-10 16:47:07
June 10 2017 16:46 GMT
#33513
ad carry is short and concise and generally applies to most champions there who almost always do physical damage sustained damage and are good vs turrets compared to most other champs

they tried to replace with marksman but it was stupid so everyone ignored it
aka Teutonica
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
June 10 2017 16:51 GMT
#33514
Yeah but I remember when going adc heimerdinger meant you were trolling with AD items in whatever lane you happened to be in and not that you were building full AP in the bottom lane. From what you say it sounds like Riot only made things worse by introducing the marksmen term.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23448 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-10 17:42:44
June 10 2017 17:42 GMT
#33515
i dunno, i've heard ziggs bot but never ziggs adc

but the terminology is such a stupid thing to worry about
aka Teutonica
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-10 18:48:29
June 10 2017 18:46 GMT
#33516
its probably just the overlays on streams i guess, i cant imagine anyone saying that

but it is vitally important that any position is 3 letters, kids gotta be able to spam their preferred instalock in blinds.

On June 11 2017 01:38 phyvo wrote:
What the crap is with Riot's apparently ironclad control of terminology in the game anyways?

What, you mean like how they are forced to conform to what people call it anyway?
member marksman? member when they tried to split bruiser/fighter/tank? i member
A backwards poet writes inverse.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 10 2017 19:27 GMT
#33517
Why 3 letters when you can uniquely identify each role with just 1?
Moderator
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
June 10 2017 20:43 GMT
#33518
because its the holy number obv
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
June 11 2017 01:34 GMT
#33519
They've started trying to change it to "bot laner" a bit.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
June 11 2017 03:15 GMT
#33520
I've had an odd urge to play lately. New shiny things drew my eye maybe, who knows. I'll probably squelch the urge by losing at OW.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
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