EPTTo add some context. I'm renting a two bedroom duplex type apartment right now. they are selling one of the units on my circle which is not as nicely finished as mine for $500k I would have to move further out of the city to even get a small 2 bedroom townhouse for that price.
The LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 1626
| Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn |
|
ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
To add some context. I'm renting a two bedroom duplex type apartment right now. they are selling one of the units on my circle which is not as nicely finished as mine for $500k I would have to move further out of the city to even get a small 2 bedroom townhouse for that price. | ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Warhammer tournaments have long been plagued with netlisting, which is exactly what it sounds like, people find what armies are winning and build exactly that. It's not the most fun, especially when that number of armies gets smaller - currently in 40k there are around 5 lists that make the top ranks. It's much better in Age of Sigmar, though, less netlisting because of the format, but it's still a thing that happens. People have brought on the idea of sideboards. I know this is a concept in MTG, so I thought I'd ask you guys. Do you find sideboards make for a more fun environment, or just more bookkeeping? My worry is that it's another layer of complexity that people don't want to take part in, but it's also potentially a way to discourage netlisting and shake up a stale meta. | ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On April 05 2017 00:18 Seuss wrote: I've been out of my 20s for more than 3 years now! Regardless, owning a home isn't an age-based decision, it's a finances/outlook-based decision. Case in point, it made perfect sense for me to stick to renting an apartment for $650/mo when I was single and looking for work that might have meant moving across the country. When I got married and we wanted more space it didn't make sense to spend $900-1000/mo on a larger apartment or $1500/mo renting a house when a mortgage was only going to be $1100-1300/mo. Jesus Christ this makes me sad. I'm paying double that for a townhouse that is likely way smaller than where you are. Fuck this city | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Suppose you have an aggro deck that races too fast for a control deck to interact with; or a combo deck that combos off before a midrange deck can kill them. Without sideboards, these matchups are largely non-games. The player on the losing end just doesn't really get to do anything, and they more or less get a freeloss not because they played poorly but because they got unlucky and drew a lopsided matchup. With sideboarding, they have the option to change up to 1/4 of their deck, making these matchups actually have play to them. They put skilled play back into situations where there otherwise would be none, not just because of the skill of sideboarding, but because you can have the ability to interact meaningfully against decks that you couldn't in game 1. It's not really a solution to the netdecking/netlisting problem, but rather the inevitability of lopsided deck matchups, particularly in powerful formats. I don't know if WH40k has an analogue to this in terms of how lopsided games can be or how much changing a lineup could make them less lopsided. | ||
|
mordek
United States12705 Posts
 | ||
|
Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On April 05 2017 01:57 Requizen wrote: I want to own because it's going to cost around as much as we're paying in rent, but I'll be putting that money towards something I'll own rather than just paying off someone else's mortgage. Rent payments give you nothing in the future, mortgage payments mean that eventually you'll own a home (sort of). Keep in mind that by renting, if shit goes wrong, you're not on the paying end for it. Meanwhile, with a house, that's all on you. Upkeep can be a bitch if you look at the big picture. There's benefits to both. | ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On April 05 2017 03:52 TheYango wrote: From a balance perspective, sideboarding is a huge aspect of making matchups that are very lopsided by nature much more interactive and actually have play to them. Suppose you have an aggro deck that races too fast for a control deck to interact with; or a combo deck that combos off before a midrange deck can kill them. Without sideboards, these matchups are largely non-games. The player on the losing end just doesn't really get to do anything, and they more or less get a freeloss not because they played poorly but because they got unlucky and drew a lopsided matchup. With sideboarding, they have the option to change up to 1/4 of their deck, making these matchups actually have play to them. They put skilled play back into situations where there otherwise would be none, not just because of the skill of sideboarding, but because you can have the ability to interact meaningfully against decks that you couldn't in game 1. It's not really a solution to the netdecking/netlisting problem, but rather the inevitability of lopsided deck matchups, particularly in powerful formats. I don't know if WH40k has an analogue to this in terms of how lopsided games can be or how much changing a lineup could make them less lopsided. It's definitely a concern in 40k. There are certain elements of certain armies that require counters, and those counters are not useful in other situations. For example, Psychic Powers can be very powerful, to the point where people will stack several buffs on a single unit to make them a big scary deathstar. There exist units in the game that just negate all Psychic powers by essentially nullifying the warp around them. But those units are not useful in games where you aren't facing Psykers (my army, for example, has 0 Psykers), so the ability to swap it in and out between games would change those matchups insanely. There are other, more in-depth examples, but it's definitely a thing. However, the book keeping issue comes with points. Every unit costs a minimal number of points, and then you can pay certain points to add more models to the unit, and other points to give certain upgrades, or take transports, etc. Sideboards make this a bit of a nightmare, since you end up taking 457 points out of a 1850 point army, but your sideboard has 600 potential points. You know what you're swapping out, but math on the fly can be problematic, and no one wants to get accused of cheating for sideboarding in over the point limit. Is two-deck format a thing? People have also suggested two-list formats and you can choose which one you take as soon as you hit the table via pairings. | ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On April 05 2017 03:56 mordek wrote: Alternatively, you find a nice little rural town that has a big company that will hire you and your mortgage is like $550 for a 3 bedroom ranch in good condition with a yard in a quiet neighborhood. You pay for city perks You really do. Looking right now there is a direct correlation between distance to city and price per square foot/amenity. It's almost staggering how little you get for the same price once you go 5 miles East. On April 05 2017 04:06 Gahlo wrote: Keep in mind that by renting, if shit goes wrong, you're not on the paying end for it. Meanwhile, with a house, that's all on you. Upkeep can be a bitch if you look at the big picture. There's benefits to both. Being part of an Association helps, which is why we're going for a Townhome over a house. HoA takes care of things like siding and roof and pavement (on top of lawncare etc), I'm fine taking care of appliances and what not. | ||
|
Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
I might be off base but there may need to be a fundamental change to the game to get around the issue. | ||
|
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On April 05 2017 03:56 mordek wrote: Alternatively, you find a nice little rural town that has a big company that will hire you and your mortgage is like $550 for a 3 bedroom ranch in good condition with a yard in a quiet neighborhood. You pay for city perks Certainly. There are things I am totally ok with paying more for - living alone, being in the center of Western Mass population hub rather than bumfuck nowhere, regular maintenance available, etc etc. Sure, I could probably be a bit more financially prudent in this regard, but as long as I'm cognizant of what I'm actually paying for... meh. edit - also, sideboards would be a great addition to 40k imo. It's not really an oppressive amount of bookkeeping or additional overhead, and you can tailor your sideboard specifically to deal with specific decks (armies) that you can't otherwise handle in your main setup. It won't really stop netdecking, but it gives you more flexibility to deal with it. | ||
|
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
i dont know shit about 40k, so i couldnt comment on it but if theres a bunch of stuff that completely rapes a strategy, but is only unplayable because those strategies aren't 100% of the field, sideboards could change that. since the game so far wouldn't have been designed with sideboarding in mind it's certainly possible hate pieces are too strong just because they were previously fine. that would lead to players of linear strategies devoting their sideboard to counteract the hate pieces, which makes the game utterly dependent on just who drew (what's the 40k equivalent, 'deploy', fk idk) more hate or counter-hate. or it makes players say 'fuck it' and go super linear and hope to go under their hard-counters. There's a name for that, it's called Modern. and now ill get yelled at but worth | ||
|
mordek
United States12705 Posts
| ||
|
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On April 05 2017 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Jesus Christ this makes me sad. I'm paying double that for a townhouse that is likely way smaller than where you are. Fuck this city It's okay Wave. Your townhouse payments are more than my entire pre-tax income. And I work 7 days a week. | ||
|
Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On April 05 2017 05:30 Dandel Ion wrote: sideboards certainly dont stop netdecking, and it also won't make the game more interactive if there are too many narrow but extremely effective hate pieces. i dont know shit about 40k, so i couldnt comment on it but if theres a bunch of stuff that completely rapes a strategy, but is only unplayable because those strategies aren't 100% of the field, sideboards could change that. since the game so far wouldn't have been designed with sideboarding in mind it's certainly possible hate pieces are too strong just because they were previously fine. that would lead to players of linear strategies devoting their sideboard to counteract the hate pieces, which makes the game utterly dependent on just who drew (what's the 40k equivalent, 'deploy', fk idk) more hate or counter-hate. or it makes players say 'fuck it' and go super linear and hope to go under their hard-counters. There's a name for that, it's called Modern. and now ill get yelled at but worth Youre a wonderful human being and I love you. Everything dandel said. I play cheerios in modern and it can kill people on turn 2. The salt illicited from someone when they die on turn 2 is wonderful. The salt I generate when I lose because I have a bunch of do nothing cards is also great. Idk YMMV, MTG in particular is what you make of it. I find magic much more enjoyable making our own formats and drafts sets, and playing edh than any wotc sanctioned event. That said, kamigawa/theros block constructed is great. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2017 05:30 Dandel Ion wrote: that would lead to players of linear strategies devoting their sideboard to counteract the hate pieces, which makes the game utterly dependent on just who drew (what's the 40k equivalent, 'deploy', fk idk) more hate or counter-hate. or it makes players say 'fuck it' and go super linear and hope to go under their hard-counters. There's a name for that, it's called Modern. The reason Modern is like that isn't because the narrow hate is too good, it's cuz all the generalized answers to things all suck ass and the linear decks can all win through them anyway. All the narrow hate cards in Modern still exist in Legacy too, it's just most of them aren't actually that much better than the generalized answers. Also, what linear Modern deck bothers using their sideboard to counter hate cards? You just bring your own hate cards to the other guy's linear deck. The only "anti-hate" card that sees widespread use is Spellskite, and that's because it also doubles as a hate card against other linear decks too. On April 05 2017 07:24 Cixah wrote: Everything dandel said. I play cheerios in modern and it can kill people on turn 2. The salt illicited from someone when they die on turn 2 is wonderful. The salt I generate when I lose because I have a bunch of do nothing cards is also great. If someone who plays Modern any reasonable amount actually gets salty over dying on turn 2, they really shouldn't be playing Modern lol. That's just what the format is. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
About sideboards, the thing is that it relies on you chaining multiple games so they can affect the result. How is 40k played? Since an individual game can take some time (plus setup time and all), how realistic would making matches Bo3 be? | ||
|
red_
United States8474 Posts
That said owning a house is also not some middle aged thing either. It's like a combination financial/lifestyle choice, that just so happens to most commonly line up with the finances and lifestyles of those headed on the road of their 30s and up(probably slowed down on the lateral job changes for raises and have established 'career within company as opposed to industry, family, wanting the relative isolation of a house with neighbors instead of apartment with 'neighbors', etc). I think the family aspect is the only one that could get me to plant down right now and Cincy is actually a decent city cost wise. | ||
|
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Am excite. Will report back. edit - this is aggressive | ||
|
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On April 05 2017 07:33 TheYango wrote: Also, what linear Modern deck bothers using their sideboard to counter hate cards? You just bring your own hate cards to the other guy's linear deck. The only "anti-hate" card that sees widespread use is Spellskite, and that's because it also doubles as a hate card against other linear decks too. (grudge in dredge,) white leyline in adnaus, teeg in bogles, any boseju or silence you ever see living end usually has faerie marcabre and ingot chewers in the side The reason Modern is like that isn't because the narrow hate is too good, it's cuz all the generalized answers to things all suck ass and the linear decks can all win through them anyway. All the narrow hate cards in Modern still exist in Legacy too, it's just most of them aren't actually that much better than the generalized answers. I'm not saying the real problem isn't that better general answers would be pretty gud but they dont exist in modern so the best you get is sideboard hate, which leads to what i stated so im arguing that an uninteractive format (or game if you will) does not automatically become interactive through adding a sideboard citing exhibit A | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2017 09:12 Dandel Ion wrote: so im arguing that an uninteractive format (or game if you will) does not automatically become interactive through adding a sideboard citing exhibit A Sure, I agree with that. A broken format isn't something that something as simple as sideboarding will fix. | ||
| ||
