StarsWar 11 - Main Event (May 18-19)

On May 16 2024 07:19 JJH777 wrote:
I'm curious why Clem didn't play in this. A 12k first place prize is pretty dang good.

On May 17 2024 11:00 lepricon1992 wrote:
First time Reynor as the official caster ever！xD

On May 18 2024 18:18 buzz_bender wrote:
Oh, who is it that's casting with Reynor?

On May 18 2024 17:17 bulldozer06701 wrote:
Looking forward to Maru vs Spirit, I think Spirit will put up a good fight

On May 18 2024 19:11 Die4Ever wrote:

or not lol

On May 18 2024 19:23 Poopi wrote:
Wow, that was the most brutal 3-0 I have seen in a long time.
Poor Spirit, KR players are on another level of Starcraft 2 right now

On May 18 2024 19:23 Sent. wrote:
I can't remember the last time I saw someone switch into bio after getting 1/1 mech upgrades in TvT. TvTrolled.

On May 18 2024 19:37 lokol4890 wrote:


Maru has done those switches in the past. I could've sworn he did it against gumiho

On May 18 2024 19:40 Poopi wrote:

I mean it’s not even a bait?
Since MaxPax doesn’t play offline and Serral is on military vacation, the only strong player in Europe right now is Clem.

Hopefully the Chinese players can have the home boost and be threats. I expect Firefly and Oliveira to be dangerous

On May 18 2024 21:50 Die4Ever wrote:
interesting herO saying PvT is 60/40 in favor of protoss? but he says it'll even out over time with practice

On May 18 2024 22:39 Nakajin wrote:
I like single elim, no more second chance!

On May 19 2024 00:18 Poopi wrote:

TvP was like 50-50 before and they nerfed Terran / buffed protoss with the last patch didn’t they?
If so that’s not entirely surprising

On May 19 2024 03:42 JJH777 wrote:
Anywhere to watch the vod for free? Reynor's requires a sub.

On May 19 2024 19:21 Poopi wrote:
Yeah even if protoss is strong in PvT nowadays, I doubt Skillous could be competitive vs Maru

On May 19 2024 19:27 Poopi wrote:

That's herO's take, I didn't watch much sc2 post patch yet

On May 19 2024 20:38 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Bo9 finals might be beneficial for herO, given Maru's shoulder injury.
herO might want to drag out games.

On May 19 2024 21:27 darklycid wrote:
If Kr terrans are playing alot of mech i can See why herO thinks its 60/40

On May 19 2024 23:17 Durnuu wrote:
LMFAO I tuned out at 4-3 thinking it was a BO7
Shoutout to the organisers for superior BO7 semis and BO9 finals

On May 19 2024 23:28 Tsubbi wrote:
This time it felt more like hero throwing then maru dominating. Hero really cant keep it together when it matters.

Props to maru for his resilience.

On May 19 2024 23:39 tigera6 wrote:

Nah, its not a throw, just how these 2 play against each other. They both trying to kill the other with a strong timing push, and depending on the army count/tech/control, they could either win the game or get smashed and die to the counter.

Otherwise, I could have said Maru was throwing in game 7, up 35 army supply against herO and just walked into massive Storm, or when he decide to go mass Cyclone against Mass Phoenix.

On May 20 2024 00:24 skarsnik41 wrote:
are there VODS? oO

On May 19 2024 23:46 xelnaga_empire wrote:


Hero threw a lot. He walked up ramps he shouldn't have walked up. I saw Hero making way more mistakes than Maru in that series.

On May 20 2024 00:50 darklycid wrote:
PvT 60/40 indeed
(Tho it Looks to be more in the 50/50 direction lately)

On May 20 2024 01:11 Poopi wrote:

To me it looked like Maru played better overall and still barely won. Given the fact that SKillous even beat the reigning world champion 3-0, protoss seems in a very good spot in PvT atm.
Hopefully the players manage to learn how to adapt to the new patch and terrans can fare better in TvP

On May 20 2024 01:37 darklycid wrote:

If you are for real with the world champion Argument idk what to Tell you because that one is clearly Not a Sane one.

On May 20 2024 01:11 Poopi wrote:

To me it looked like Maru played better overall and still barely won. Given the fact that SKillous even beat the reigning world champion 3-0, protoss seems in a very good spot in PvT atm.
Hopefully the players manage to learn how to adapt to the new patch and terrans can fare better in TvP

On May 20 2024 03:31 Poopi wrote:

I mean Oliveira is imo clearly better than SKillous, so I am hopeful the results will get better over time in the match-up.

On May 20 2024 11:22 tigera6 wrote:
Lets put it this way, PvT is slighly Protoss favored unless you are Clem or Maru, with the former is still questionable because all he play against is MaxPax and his perfect macro time. Players with different style (Nightmare, Firefly) have proven to give Clem a fit at times. Cure used to be THE best TvP player in the world, but now he lost TvP more frequently, and has openly stated some challenge about the matchup since the previous balance change.

Most of Terran win against Protoss these days are within 5-6 minutes with a committed 2 base push, or deal some heavy damage (taking down the 3rd base, got some worker kills, ect.) and come back later to finish them up. Byun just played a macro style 3CC build against Nightmare in the GSL, and he got beaten because he cant get map control, allow Protoss to expand easily and lost in the macro game.

On May 20 2024 14:20 digmouse wrote:

Technically this is classified as a Major so nothing has changed kek.

On May 20 2024 12:54 dph114 wrote:

complete macro play (witthout first doing damage) is almost impossible in tvp because of how much better you need to be in late game (army control, multitask and macro). I completely agree that most terrans try to fake out toss player with some mind game and do 5min push, be it 2-1-1, 1-1-1, 3-1 or 3rax, doesnt really matter.
Maru literally did it every game and sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt, but if you dont do that timing you feel like your way behind. What happened after those timing when Hero survived? he threw really hard, attacks into chokes into ramps, bad control in fights, bad decision making. Really felt like less of Maru winning and more of Hero just throwing.

On May 20 2024 11:22 tigera6 wrote:
Lets put it this way, PvT is slighly Protoss favored unless you are Clem or Maru, with the former is still questionable because all he play against is MaxPax and his perfect macro time. Players with different style (Nightmare, Firefly) have proven to give Clem a fit at times. Cure used to be THE best TvP player in the world, but now he lost TvP more frequently, and has openly stated some challenge about the matchup since the previous balance change.

Most of Terran win against Protoss these days are within 5-6 minutes with a committed 2 base push, or deal some heavy damage (taking down the 3rd base, got some worker kills, ect.) and come back later to finish them up. Byun just played a macro style 3CC build against Nightmare in the GSL, and he got beaten because he cant get map control, allow Protoss to expand easily and lost in the macro game.

On May 20 2024 18:05 darklycid wrote:

Again Show me Numbers for that. Lets Looks at recent tournaments: gsl s1 2t ro4 t win, EU regional: 3t ro4 t win, na 1t ro4 p win (was even Like this when p was Seen as the weakest Race), Asia: 2t ro4 t win. So yeah i dont See any Support for These Claims.

On May 20 2024 18:16 Poopi wrote:

Well, quantitative analysis in Starcraft 2 is pretty tough since there are barely any pros left in the scene, sample sizes will be particularly small. This is why qualitative analysis can provide better results, and there has been plenty of hints towards protoss being in a good state in PvT currently: Firefly destroying Clem in the WTL 3-0, SKillous beating Oliveira 3-0 with ease, Maru completely demolishing Spirit and GuMiho in the mirror match-up but heavily struggling to beat herO, Cure who was top 2 or better in TvP for multiple years getting beaten over and over again by NightMare...

I don't see how the number of terrans in a GSL (where there are not only terrans and protoss but also zergs) are indicative numbers of the state of TvP/PvT, especially compared to fine qualitative analysis like the post you quoted: 2 base pushes, at which timing, etc.

Sure, we are plebs so maybe tigera6 qualitative analysis is utterly false, and the T / P progamers have a vastly different opinion about the games etc., but it's imho a better way to look at the match-up than checking which race won which tournament and the race representation. Especially considering how small the scene has become, with GSL qualifiers barely eliminating anyone anymore since there aren't enough top players left playing in Korea.

I get where you are coming from though, due to reasons (cough cough MaxPax not playing offline, and several top KR protoss gone to the military or playing stormgate), protoss has been under represented at the top level. Not sure if balance was the main culprit for that though.

I wanted to keep my Vitality x Onsyde Maru jersey for Esports World Cup to give Maru maximum energy, but he won GSL Code S AND this tournament... I will take it out of its blister and wear it to work tomorrow, probably

On May 20 2024 11:07 goldensail wrote:
Since herO himself said PvT is now 60/40 and the balance is "perfect", I think there's a reasonable argument for PvT being somewhat Protoss favored. Let's see how Terrans adapt.

On May 20 2024 18:52 xelnaga_empire wrote:


So PvsT is 60/40 and Hero thinks it is balanced? And because PvsT is 60/40, TL also thinks it's balanced? lol

Hero was making so many mistakes that series and if PvsT weren't 60/40, but closer to 50/50, it would have been a 5-0 for Maru.

On May 20 2024 00:45 Die4Ever wrote:

Day 1 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2148736764?t=0h57m32s

Day 2 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2149585141?t=0h41m49s

On May 21 2024 01:20 Antithesis wrote:
Terran tears are truly unrivaled in terms of entitlement.

It takes a special form of mentality to look at a tournament that was literally won by a terran, and where terrans made up 50% of the participants (the other 50% being protoss, with 0% zergs), and to somehow warp it into a lament about the state of terran because... the terran did not win hard enough in the finals? ... a player who had one miracle run in his whole life lost to another player of a similar caliber?

TvP has been hilariously lopsided in favor of terran at the top level for more than a year. This is an indisputable fact evidenced in the higher brackets of plenty of tournaments results and discussed to death on countless occasions, usually with someone explaining it away by saying that protoss is simply lacking talents.

I am more than happy that TvP has become an actual matchup again. Honestly, I did not care about most high-level TvPs for the past year because too much of it amounted to either the protoss playing flawlessly and capturing the terran's every move and making perfect reads throughout or the terran winning by default. Just imagine terran had the results protoss suffered for the past year.

On May 21 2024 18:08 Poopi wrote:

Weren't protoss complaining for months on reddit though?
It seemed to work as they have been omega buffed, so I guess they will keep doing it as long as it works

On May 22 2024 00:14 Poopi wrote:

Is it hatred though? I watched more PvP this tournament with Firefly vs herO and SKillous vs herO than TvT, since I was sleeping when Maru fought GuMiho (only watched Spirit vs Maru as TvT series). Overall I enjoy the three protoss match-ups, albeit I find PvP a bit too volatile for my taste, and PvZ seems a bit too protoss favored as of late

On May 22 2024 00:14 Poopi wrote:

Is it hatred though? I watched more PvP this tournament with Firefly vs herO and SKillous vs herO than TvT, since I was sleeping when Maru fought GuMiho (only watched Spirit vs Maru as TvT series). Overall I enjoy the three protoss match-ups, albeit I find PvP a bit too volatile for my taste, and PvZ seems a bit too protoss favored as of late

On May 20 2024 18:16 Poopi wrote:

Especially considering how small the scene has become, with GSL qualifiers barely eliminating anyone anymore since there aren't enough top players left playing in Korea.