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China6329 Posts
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My guess on how this is going to play out:
Team Liquid > Mystery Gaming
Team Liquid > PsiStorm Gaming
Shopify Rebellion > Team Liquid
Dragon KaiZi Gaming > Shopify Rebellion
Basilisk > Dragon KaiZi Gaming
Onsyde Gaming > Basilisk
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If things break out right for them, Team Liquid could reach all the way to the Final, and then it will be up to Cure/Clem TvT vs Maru. Other than that, it would be a rematch of the previous season Final, and while I think Serral could just win it all for Basilisk, they better not sending him out first in the 2nd place - 3rd place match.
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TL > MyG
TL > PsiStorm
TL > SR
TL > DKZ
Basilisk > TL
Onsyde > Basilisk
I have no faith in Reynor's current form unless he's already started grinding for Katowice, and Solar/Maru are probably too good for Serral to sweep. TL vs DKZ is a coin flip, Clem is favored against every DKZ player but I can see any of them taking a game against him. Player order will probably decide a lot.
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United States33388 Posts
That Clem 0-2 against Ryung in the final week destroyed any fantasy I had that winning Atlanta magically made Clem a better WTL player as well.
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On January 05 2024 04:57 Waxangel wrote:
That Clem 0-2 against Ryung in the final week destroyed any fantasy I had that winning Atlanta magically made Clem a better WTL player as well.
Pretty much what I was thinking too. In the end 17-7 in the regular season doesn't exactly scream world-beating in the specific WTL context. For what I'm concerned that could even entertain the possibility that the team could bomb against MYG.
EDIT : I thought Bunny could draw with Cure but he let it slip. I think Liquid might at least fight SR.
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who needs clem? Cure all the way for TL lol
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Canada8989 Posts
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Both Shin and Bunny also look below average today.
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That final game...
"When your opponent does something fancy, just go f'ing kill them".
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Allright, lets see if PsiStorm has something prepared for the Liquid.
Cure was looking fantastic so far, it s going to be rough to stop him and the current DH Champion
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Namshar played his butt off and was looking closer to beat Clem than MaxPax. Some of the game was good but overall I hope tomorrow is way better than today in term of competition.
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Russian Federation391 Posts
Nice "team" league. One player wins it all :D Seriously, why not force to change players?
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On January 06 2024 03:12 RandomPlayer wrote:
Nice "team" league. One player wins it all :D Seriously, why not force to change players?
Because that is the slight-downside of Allkill. But then again, Allkill is better for the viewing experience, since there are no unnecessary matches, every map counts.
And two players of Liquid did allkills today, so this is definetly a team-effort.
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On January 06 2024 03:12 RandomPlayer wrote:
Nice "team" league. One player wins it all :D Seriously, why not force to change players?
What you're asking for would also punish teams for performing well.
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Cure and Clem both playing on their expected level today. I am getting worried about my prediction that Shopify Rebellion will be able to beat Team Liquid.
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United States33388 Posts
ACES WILD!
(love recycling all of our old Proleague headlines/titles from the BW era)
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I don't see Shopify beating TL, the Cure+Clem combo is too strong
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China6329 Posts
What is Byun even doing with that kind of a lead.
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On January 06 2024 03:23 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2024 03:12 RandomPlayer wrote:
Nice "team" league. One player wins it all :D Seriously, why not force to change players? Because that is the slight-downside of Allkill. But then again, Allkill is better for the viewing experience, since there are no unnecessary matches, every map counts. And two players of Liquid did allkills today, so this is definetly a team-effort.
Clem didn't all kill yesterday as Elazer took out Gerald
He may do it here vs ByuN though
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Canada8989 Posts
Good revive choice from TL, let's see if Cure was indeed the pickup they needed to bring them to the glory land.
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China6329 Posts
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Man Shopify vs TL has been an incredible matchup. Bringing me some true Proleague vibes.
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In the end its coming down to TL has another player that can stop SR Ace , but SR doesnt.
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On January 07 2024 00:01 Nakajin wrote:
Good revive choice from TL, let's see if Cure was indeed the pickup they needed to bring them to the glory land.
He was. If they had had to revive Clem, firstly you have Clem's dodgy TvT, and if he goes 1-1 you're down to Elazer or Skillous in the ace match, whereas Clem was an almost sure thing vs anybody other than Byun.
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What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)!
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Canada8989 Posts
On January 07 2024 00:54 Evilmj wrote:
What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)!
It's nice to have the DKZ owners deep in SC2 (and deep in money), he certainly seemed to get the game considering he had to translate 2 minutes of response from Clem haha.
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United States33388 Posts
On January 07 2024 00:54 Evilmj wrote:
What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)!
u think he could volunteer his services at ESL events? 
clearly he doesn't need the money
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On January 07 2024 00:54 Evilmj wrote:
What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)!
Seeing as I don't speak Chinese, it's hard to have an opinion. I noticed in the Lambo interview, he said ZvZ verbatim. If that's how Chinese refer to the matchup he has some grasp of the game and that's cool!
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China6329 Posts
On January 07 2024 02:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2024 00:54 Evilmj wrote:
What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)! Seeing as I don't speak Chinese, it's hard to have an opinion. I noticed in the Lambo interview, he said ZvZ verbatim. If that's how Chinese refer to the matchup he has some grasp of the game and that's cool!
Yep, we use a lot of original English phrases in day to day Starcraft talk, all the match up names for example, also some general concept like "timing".
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On January 07 2024 01:42 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2024 00:54 Evilmj wrote:
What do you guys think of WTL's English translator? He may be the most expensive translator out there, because he is one of the owners of DKZ Club, a billionaire (and also an amateur player of StarCraft II)! u think he could volunteer his services at ESL events? clearly he doesn't need the money
I guess this might be a bit hard. The WTL organization team feels more like a group of friends. For example, Xiaose is the brother-in-law of another wealthy owner of DKZ Club, and the Korean female translator is Macsed's wife（Although IG remained in the A-level league of WTL, Macsed and XY appeared in the Chinese commentary booth for the WTL playoffs).They are either relatives or have known each other for a long time. Clearly, he would prefer to be involved in e-sports events within such a familiar environment.
Additionally, he also has many business affairs to attend to. For instance, he is one of the shareholders of LGD (although I'm not sure which industry his main assets are in).
If ESL wants to invite him, it would be a good idea to do so through SCBOYS.
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China6329 Posts
TL big brain by dragging the match into midnight so the Koreans on DKZ are sleepy 
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Canada8989 Posts
On January 07 2024 02:34 digmouse wrote:TL big brain by dragging the match into midnight so the Koreans on DKZ are sleepy
Come on now, that's just mean to imply TL would use such tactics.... They are dragging the match to Clem's wake-up time.
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Gotta say the only tvp Style that doesnt Just Look dead in these pvts recently Has been Classics colossus into Carrier.
Tho clem obviously Looks Just insane as Well.
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China6329 Posts
Clem went 5-0 vs Psi, 7-2 vs Shopify and 5-1 in the last 3 series.
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So could he be the playoff MVP even if they not winning the title tomorrow?
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Canada8989 Posts
Clem to beat Basilisk tomorrow then lose to Ryung and Maru, as it was foretold.
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China6329 Posts
I wish they could schedule it so only the final is on the last day, so the 1st place team don't get nearly as big as a stamina advantage.
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United States33388 Posts
So far this is one of the most ace-dominated playoffs in SCBOY Teamleague history. I think it will be much more back and forth on sunday, tho.
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Can TL become the first European club to win the WTL playoffs championship? Or will it be BAS? Or will they all be stopped by OG?
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On January 07 2024 09:22 Evilmj wrote:
Can TL become the first European club to win the WTL playoffs championship? Or will it be BAS? Or will they all be stopped by OG?
Depends on Maru's TvT performances on that day. But I would love to see Serral and Reynor get wrecked (all-kill) by Clem. It will be the most satisfying ever happens in WYL playoffs championship.
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Cure and Clem destroyed competition last 2 days. Exc8ited to see if Basiliks zergs can stop them.
As always, no relevant protoss to be seen.
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DKZ made a mistake by sending Oliveira first, they should have saved him to snipe Clem. herO and Dark would have a better chance at Cure than Clem, and TL wasnt going to send Clem out first base on their playoff gameplan. Basilisk might just send out Serral first today, or maybe Reynor to match Cure.
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For anyone interested, the quiz segment preshow began about 40 minutes ago. First with korean players and now with some european players
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China6329 Posts
The contrast between Cure and Clem's TvZ are like two generations apart.
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Clem 2-raxing, after all this time... He's finally ascended!
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Canada8989 Posts
Wow! Clément with the builds!!!
What a time to finally pull the trigger
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Absolutely incredible game - best player in the world. Actual unreal strat.
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Can they res Reynor/Serral before bringing out the 3rd player? I say this because if they res Reynor/Serral first, he can choose Equilibrium in the 2nd map
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On January 07 2024 15:36 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2024 09:22 Evilmj wrote:
Can TL become the first European club to win the WTL playoffs championship? Or will it be BAS? Or will they all be stopped by OG? Depends on Maru's TvT performances on that day. But I would love to see Serral and Reynor get wrecked (all-kill) by Clem. It will be the most satisfying ever happens in WYL playoffs championship.
Oh my, he did it!
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On January 07 2024 21:51 Azzur wrote:
Can they res Reynor/Serral before bringing out the 3rd player? I say this because if they res Reynor/Serral first, he can choose Equilibrium in the 2nd map
Don't think so.
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On January 07 2024 21:50 Nakajin wrote:
Wow! Clément with the builds!!!
What a time to finally pull the trigger
Is this a very apt pun haha
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Clem reverse all-killing Basilisk would be hype.
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bruv Clem is putting al the work here
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Team clem doing quite Well.
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Canada8989 Posts
TL getting hard carry by a terran winning offline event in America, it's like the good old days.
Clem's somehow playing even better than in Atlanta
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On January 07 2024 23:13 Nakajin wrote:
TL getting hard carry by a terran winning offline event in America, it's like the good old days.
Clem's somehow playing even better than in Atlanta
Online at Home is Just a better comfort Zone than offline + its mostly EU Server so i can See why He is.
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Can Ryung Maru or Solar stop Clem twice?
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On January 07 2024 15:36 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2024 09:22 Evilmj wrote:
Can TL become the first European club to win the WTL playoffs championship? Or will it be BAS? Or will they all be stopped by OG? Depends on Maru's TvT performances on that day. But I would love to see Serral and Reynor get wrecked (all-kill) by Clem. It will be the most satisfying ever happens in WYL playoffs championship.
Told you. It is all-kill by Clem. Poor Basillik.
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China6329 Posts
This is undoubtedly the greatest playoffs performance WTL has ever seen.
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On January 07 2024 23:25 Argonauta wrote:
Can Ryung Maru or Solar stop Clem twice?
Clem's TvT is still beatable. Look at how he got 0-2 by Byun.
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On January 07 2024 23:25 Argonauta wrote:
Can Ryung Maru or Solar stop Clem twice?
Maru should still be favored
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Canada8989 Posts
Whatever happen next, I'd like to say that I predicted Clem dragging TL to the final, but I was silenced by my editor! #theonetimeIpredictedsomething
The last two and a half day do make me a bit worried about my take that TL is a good draw for Onsyde haha.
I do think they have it if they can make sure to draw Clem out before losing either Ryung or Maru.
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When does the last match will start? One hour or straightly after this interview?
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Now, it's time for Clem and his TL team to challenge the curse of the black horse finals and the inability of European teams to win the WTL championship.
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Brilliant idea to roll the dice with cheese! What a massive win for TL!
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On January 07 2024 23:59 Azzur wrote:
Brilliant idea to roll the dice with cheese! What a massive win for TL!
Absolutely huge - TL is arguably favored now.
Onsyde was the absolute worst team for TL - a bunch of "vT" snipers.
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United States33388 Posts
liquid about to sign moustacheTerran and pirateTerran
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I think Cure goes in first to give Clem as much rest as possible
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Canada8989 Posts
Almost certainly Cure next, I wonder if you go Maru or Ryung here if you're onsyde
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So Clem did
5-0 vs Psistorm
7-2 vs Shopify Rebellion
5-1 vs DKZ
7-1 vs Basilisk
which 24-4 in total. Insane, simply insane.
I don't care what happens in the finals - Clem is the playoffs MVP by a huge margin.
And one has to think TL is the favorite in the finals now, right?
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What's the farthest a team has come from the lower playoff bracket to end up winning it all? Don't think we've ever had a bottom two team win, right?
On January 08 2024 00:15 ZeroByte13 wrote:
So Clem did
5-0 vs Psistorm
7-2 vs Shopify Rebellion
5-1 vs DKZ
7-1 vs Basilisk
which 24-4 in total. Insane, simply insane.
I don't care what happens in the finals - Clem is the playoffs MVP by a huge margin.
And one has to think TL is the favorite in the finals now, right?
He basically got Serral's WTL regular season record but exclusively against the best teams and against the best players
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Cyclone tvt looks dumb af tho.
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Canada8989 Posts
On January 08 2024 00:20 Pandain wrote:What's the farthest a team has come from the lower playoff bracket to end up winning it all? Don't think we've ever had a bottom two team win, right? Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 00:15 ZeroByte13 wrote:
So Clem did
5-0 vs Psistorm
7-2 vs Shopify Rebellion
5-1 vs DKZ
7-1 vs Basilisk
which 24-4 in total. Insane, simply insane.
I don't care what happens in the finals - Clem is the playoffs MVP by a huge margin.
And one has to think TL is the favorite in the finals now, right? He basically got Serral's WTL regular season record but exclusively against the best teams and against the best players
Back in the day we had the Dream-Scarlett team doing it I think.
Edit: Cluch win for Maru, and now Onsyde get six looks at Clem tvt, exactly what they wanted.
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The True Final Boss, Maru!
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China6329 Posts
Maru teaching other Terrans why he is the best TvT player of all time.
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All Cure had to do was hold... I believe he got a bit too greedy
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United States33388 Posts
On January 08 2024 00:20 Pandain wrote:What's the farthest a team has come from the lower playoff bracket to end up winning it all? Don't think we've ever had a bottom two team win, right? Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 00:15 ZeroByte13 wrote:
So Clem did
5-0 vs Psistorm
7-2 vs Shopify Rebellion
5-1 vs DKZ
7-1 vs Basilisk
which 24-4 in total. Insane, simply insane.
I don't care what happens in the finals - Clem is the playoffs MVP by a huge margin.
And one has to think TL is the favorite in the finals now, right? He basically got Serral's WTL regular season record but exclusively against the best teams and against the best players
in 2022, Reynor-oli Kaizi and creator-drg-bunny NV went bottom round to finals in consecutive seasons.
both alpha x and bravestar went bottom to finals when it was the gold series team league.
Jin Air won the championship from the lowest round when it was the China team league.
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Marus doom drop defense is non exsiting in both games.
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On January 08 2024 01:14 darklycid wrote:
Marus doom drop defense is non exsiting in both games.
yeah he usuallky builds a lot of turrents in hisd main base... big mistake cost him the game.
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Canada8989 Posts
Never bet against Ryung in WTL
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Ryung still has it in tvt.
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I think Clem gets revived
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I am surprised that Terran not making an early Viking to shut down the double Cyclone drop, its the equivalent of mine drop in other matchups.
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France12875 Posts
Ryung is savage, Clem destroying Serral / Reynor / Maru and other pros with ease, but 30+ years old Ryung too slow to properly play TvZ can take games off Clem as if it’s easy :D
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On January 08 2024 01:48 tigera6 wrote:
I am surprised that Terran not making an early Viking to shut down the double Cyclone drop, its the equivalent of mine drop in other matchups.
Other than that, turret placement is also crucial to prevent the maneuver of dropship.
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Canada8989 Posts
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On January 08 2024 01:56 Nakajin wrote:
Ace Ryung baby!
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the ryung revive is wild but you know..... facts are facts
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Ryung just need to win one map. Then, it is up to Solar to beat Elazer or Cure for the ace match.
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On January 08 2024 01:53 swarminfestor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 01:48 tigera6 wrote:
I am surprised that Terran not making an early Viking to shut down the double Cyclone drop, its the equivalent of mine drop in other matchups. Other than that, turret placement is also crucial to prevent the maneuver of dropship.
you need a wall of turret to do it, one or even two arent enough.
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On January 08 2024 02:14 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 01:53 swarminfestor wrote:On January 08 2024 01:48 tigera6 wrote:
I am surprised that Terran not making an early Viking to shut down the double Cyclone drop, its the equivalent of mine drop in other matchups. Other than that, turret placement is also crucial to prevent the maneuver of dropship. you need a wall of turret to do it, one or even two arent enough.
Maru usually puts a lot of turrets in his main base when he goes to the turtle mod
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holy shit 
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This has got to be the closest finals we have ever seen in WTL
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Wow, the power of Old Man's wisdom.
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One of the best finals I've ever seen! And put into context the amazing playoffs as well
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Too many tvts deciding the matches for my taste (tho tl vs basilisk made up for that kinda).
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Who does onsyde send?? Probs Maru?k
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China6329 Posts
On January 08 2024 02:26 buzz_bender wrote:
This has got to be the closest finals we have ever seen in WTL
GTC 2020 Fall finals also got to the ace with TIME/Oliveira being the clutch.
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Damn, Maru please play safe build.
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Canada8989 Posts
If Maru does the shitty one-tank medivac drop build I'll fly to Korea to personally slap him.
Outside of that, I'm happy with every result. Amazing day of game.
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Clem for playoffs mvp ryung for final match mvp.
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On January 08 2024 02:45 darklycid wrote:
Clem for playoffs mvp ryung for final match mvp.
ryung for goin 2-2 vs clem as mvp? instead of clem who you know won all his other games?
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On January 08 2024 02:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 02:45 darklycid wrote:
Clem for playoffs mvp ryung for final match mvp. ryung for goin 2-2 vs clem as mvp? instead of clem who you know won all his other games?
Well in tl vs onsyde ryung was def the mvp thats what i meant.
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Canada8989 Posts
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On January 08 2024 02:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 02:45 darklycid wrote:
Clem for playoffs mvp ryung for final match mvp. ryung for goin 2-2 vs clem as mvp? instead of clem who you know won all his other games?
won the battle but lost the war...
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On January 07 2024 23:44 Evilmj wrote:
Now, it's time for Clem and his TL team to challenge the curse of the black horse finals and the inability of European teams to win the WTL championship.
Once again
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Onsyde made sick plan to send Ryung twice to force Clem being revived two times. Tl should not revive Clem for the second time before the ace match starts, but hold him for the ace match.
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Best team should be Onsyde, but playoff MVP would be Clem.
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United States33388 Posts
Exciting finals, hopefully next one is live
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On January 08 2024 02:55 Waxangel wrote:Exciting finals, hopefully next one is live
Let hope for the offline matches.
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On January 08 2024 02:55 Waxangel wrote:Exciting finals, hopefully next one is live
I would love to watch a semi and final playoffs offline!
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On January 08 2024 02:55 Waxangel wrote:Exciting finals, hopefully next one is live
What? These matches weren't live?
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On January 08 2024 03:00 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 02:55 Waxangel wrote:Exciting finals, hopefully next one is live What? These matches weren't live?
Is it pre-recorded?
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United States33388 Posts
i meant "offline" which is a stupid term >:0
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On January 08 2024 03:11 Waxangel wrote:
i meant "offline" which is a stupid term >:0
should say "on location" 
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Congratz to Onsyde - but it does not take anything away from Clem's absolutely legendary run!
If only Cure got a bit more support when it mattered...
Clem vs. aligulac top 10 in this run:
2-0 Serral
3-0 MaxPax
2-0 herO
2-0 Dark
2-0 Maru
2-2 ByuN
3-1 Reynor
I'm speechless.
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I think TL needs to sign moustacheTerran and pirateTerran
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France12875 Posts
Onsyde is just too good, they have a plot armor at this point
Plus when I watch the games they lose, and proceed to win the ones I don’t watch
Gg Maru, bit of a redemption
Congrats to Clem for that monstrous playoff run, and Ryung for being so clutch for Onsyde
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Canada8989 Posts
It's been a great season, here's to hoping we get many more World team league in 2024!
Also, a big thanks to the Cranky Ducklings they've done a great job giving us coverage of each and every match all year.
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Awesoome games and really nice casting by Rotterdam!
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We're incredibly lucky to have WTL and SCBoy team.
Team leagues is just something else, something unique.
Thank you for this! (maybe digmouse can convey this message to them?)
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United States33388 Posts
On January 05 2024 04:57 Waxangel wrote:
That Clem 0-2 against Ryung in the final week destroyed any fantasy I had that winning Atlanta magically made Clem a better WTL player as well.
Damn, took away the wrong lesson. Should have realized that Clem is just weak against Ryung, not weak in the WTL
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On January 08 2024 03:40 VladSlymor wrote:
Congratz to Onsyde - but it does not take anything away from Clem's absolutely legendary run!
If only Cure got a bit more support when it mattered...
Clem vs. aligulac top 10 in this run:
2-0 Serral
3-0 MaxPax
2-0 herO
2-0 Dark
2-0 Maru
2-2 ByuN
3-1 Reynor
I'm speechless.
Ryung won the more important games in the playoffs, that Clem having a bigger body of work matters less.
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On January 08 2024 14:50 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 03:40 VladSlymor wrote:
Congratz to Onsyde - but it does not take anything away from Clem's absolutely legendary run!
If only Cure got a bit more support when it mattered...
Clem vs. aligulac top 10 in this run:
2-0 Serral
3-0 MaxPax
2-0 herO
2-0 Dark
2-0 Maru
2-2 ByuN
3-1 Reynor
I'm speechless. Ryung won the more important games in the playoffs, that Clem having a bigger body of work matters less.
Actually, Ryung and Clem went 1-1 in both their series, and Ryung didn't play anybody else. Just because he's an underdog, doesn't mean the series was more important for him than for Clem. The two players in the finals with a positive record are Maru (3-2, including an ace win) and Clem (4-2). Ryung, Solar and Elazer all have equal wins and losses. Cure went 0-3 
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On January 08 2024 16:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 14:50 Philippe wrote:On January 08 2024 03:40 VladSlymor wrote:
Congratz to Onsyde - but it does not take anything away from Clem's absolutely legendary run!
If only Cure got a bit more support when it mattered...
Clem vs. aligulac top 10 in this run:
2-0 Serral
3-0 MaxPax
2-0 herO
2-0 Dark
2-0 Maru
2-2 ByuN
3-1 Reynor
I'm speechless. Ryung won the more important games in the playoffs, that Clem having a bigger body of work matters less. Actually, Ryung and Clem went 1-1 in both their series, and Ryung didn't play anybody else. Just because he's an underdog, doesn't mean the series was more important for him than for Clem. The two players in the finals with a positive record are Maru (3-2, including an ace win) and Clem (4-2). Ryung, Solar and Elazer all have equal wins and losses. Cure went 0-3
I know but it's difficult to see another way why Ryung got the nod for being the playoff MVP instead of somebody else, which obviously wasn't popular with everybody but the logic is there.
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On January 08 2024 16:43 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 16:38 Acrofales wrote:On January 08 2024 14:50 Philippe wrote:On January 08 2024 03:40 VladSlymor wrote:
Congratz to Onsyde - but it does not take anything away from Clem's absolutely legendary run!
If only Cure got a bit more support when it mattered...
Clem vs. aligulac top 10 in this run:
2-0 Serral
3-0 MaxPax
2-0 herO
2-0 Dark
2-0 Maru
2-2 ByuN
3-1 Reynor
I'm speechless. Ryung won the more important games in the playoffs, that Clem having a bigger body of work matters less. Actually, Ryung and Clem went 1-1 in both their series, and Ryung didn't play anybody else. Just because he's an underdog, doesn't mean the series was more important for him than for Clem. The two players in the finals with a positive record are Maru (3-2, including an ace win) and Clem (4-2). Ryung, Solar and Elazer all have equal wins and losses. Cure went 0-3 I know but it's difficult to see another way why Ryung got the nod for being the playoff MVP instead of somebody else, which obviously wasn't popular with everybody but the logic is there.
It just plain doesn't make any sense. And you seem to agree. SCBoy made a mistake there. Almost singlehandedly dragging TL through the entire gauntlet and having a positive record in the finals should obviously be an MVP, as opposed to being one of 2 people with a 2-2 record against him... it's totally fine for MVP to come from the losing team, if the losing team played 6 matches vs the winner having a single match. They messed it up, because the awards should have been Playoff MVP Clem, and best Terran Maru. I'm guessing they did some cool calculating money math there by giving Ryung a first prize instead of a second prize, amd Clem the biggest value win overall by declaring him overall best Terran (which is not an awful call, but Maru's regular season tear + 3-0 over Cure in the finals is enough to edge Clem out, imho).
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Clem absolutly destroyed the best of the best all week long
He Single handedly got Liquid into the finals with little Support by his teammates
That Ryung even was in consideration for Playoffs MVP just for taling 2 maps of him, simply shows how fucking dominant Clem was.
Clem is Playoffs MVP, giving the title to anyone else is a farce
And I would also argue, that Clem was best Terran. His schedule in the Playoffs was way harder than any regular season schedule ever could be. He played almost everyone in Top 10 Alligulac.
His gauntlet was harder than what you would see at most Premier 1v1 tournaments and he absolutely killed anyone in his path.
Giving the award to someone who didn t even win a single Bo2 is just plain wrong. Yes, I respect Onsyde for their massive balls to put their trust into Ryung, who seems to be a Clem sniper at this point and has always been a TvT expert. But giving him the MVP just because he didn t lose against the best Player is a paradox in itselve
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The “playoff MVP” is more like the Final MVP, and SVP is the actual playoff MVP in this case. And the gauntlet playoff format also messing up the overall season award imo, basically Clem got a better opportunity to show his greatness by starting from the bottom round. Not taking anything away from those victory but I think Onsyde or Basilisk would have been able to make a similar run from the same position up to the final day.
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I can kinda agree with tigera6 - obviously Clem had an awesome dominating run in playoffs and I'd call him an obvious MVP favorite.
But then Basilisk and especially Onsyde players would be in a position where they have no chance to contest MVP's title because they were much better in the regular season. "You were too good so you're penalised".
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On January 08 2024 18:15 ZeroByte13 wrote:
I can kinda agree with tigera6 - obviously Clem had an awesome dominating run in playoffs and I'd call him an obvious MVP favorite.
But then Basilisk and especially Onsyde players would be in a position where they have no chance to contest MVP's title because they were much better in the regular season. "You were too good so you're penalised".
This is the kind of unintended consequence many don't think about when having an opinion about it - then in that aspect awarding the MVP to the player who defeats the other one logging the most wins looks more logical, even if you don't approve (and I do tend to disagree with the decision too, just that in the end, it is what it is)
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On January 08 2024 18:15 ZeroByte13 wrote:
I can kinda agree with tigera6 - obviously Clem had an awesome dominating run in playoffs and I'd call him an obvious MVP favorite.
But then Basilisk and especially Onsyde players would be in a position where they have no chance to contest MVP's title because they were much better in the regular season. "You were too good so you're penalised".
That just means you should change your tournament structure or your individual award structure. But you can't award teams/players for games they didn't play. Onsyde, and its players, obviously deserve prizes and massive props for (a) dominating the regular season, and (B) winning the finals. But if you have an MVP for the PLAYOFFS, that should obviously go to the player who put on the single best performance the WTL has ever seen, and not the guy who managed to snipe him in the finals, no matter how important that snipe was. In fact, if we're ignoring what Clem did to get to the finals and disregarding how he tore through DKZ, Basilisk and everyone else, I'd argue two 1-1s against him is not that impressive, and Maru going 3-2 overall and winning the ace match should be MVP of the series. So the only reason Ryung is even considered a candidate is BECAUSE Clem was so incredible.
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At least money wise Clem didn't lose anything.
- he got two awards for being super-good for 3 days
- while Maru got only one while being consistently the best for long time and bringing his team to the finals + won the ace match.
Regular season is incredibly important as it can put your team to the final right away.
It's not like in NHL or NBA where regular season isn't that important as long as you get into playoffs and hopefully not at the last day - to avoid meeting the strongest opponents in your first series.
Here regular season is extremely important.
Just think about this - if Clem was as good as Maru over the regular season he would simple destroy his own chance to have this run.
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United States33388 Posts
I think it's more a problem of nomenclature than anything. Considering how the "playoff MVP award" has been given throughout SCBOY Teamleague history, it should always have been called the "finals MVP" award.
I think calling the other award "second most valuable player" is also bad naming that causes a needless hierarchy between the two awards. They could just have called the two awards "finals MVP" and "(actual) playoff MVP" and the problem would be solved (some players could win both in certain seasons).
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On January 08 2024 23:04 Acrofales wrote:
In fact, if we're ignoring what Clem did to get to the finals and disregarding how he tore through DKZ, Basilisk and everyone else, I'd argue two 1-1s against him is not that impressive, and Maru going 3-2 overall and winning the ace match should be MVP of the series. So the only reason Ryung is even considered a candidate is BECAUSE Clem was so incredible.
This exactly - picking Ryung and not Maru is a tacit acknowledgment that you consider the previous games in the MVP award.
And this without even considering that Clem still has the best record of the three even in the final match only.
I mean, there's zero harm done here so no worries and big thanks to the WTL for the whole organization! Bbut the absolute playoff destroyer not getting the MVP title is quite a fun one.
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France12875 Posts
On January 09 2024 04:09 VladSlymor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 23:04 Acrofales wrote:
In fact, if we're ignoring what Clem did to get to the finals and disregarding how he tore through DKZ, Basilisk and everyone else, I'd argue two 1-1s against him is not that impressive, and Maru going 3-2 overall and winning the ace match should be MVP of the series. So the only reason Ryung is even considered a candidate is BECAUSE Clem was so incredible. This exactly - picking Ryung and not Maru is a tacit acknowledgment that you consider the previous games in the MVP award. And this without even considering that Clem still has the best record of the three even in the final match only. I mean, there's zero harm done here so no worries and big thanks to the WTL for the whole organization! Bbut the absolute playoff destroyer not getting the MVP title is quite a fun one.
I mean you have to give it to the winner, so it makes sense. Onsyde and Basilisk could also have destroyed MYG and others, but they didn’t get the chance because they were good in the regular format.
Plus, if Clem 2-0d Ryung like he should, he could have won TL the title and got playoffs MVP.
Not that big a deal
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Canada8989 Posts
I think giving Ryung playoff MVP is incredibly stupid, but he also needs the 700$ much more, so I fully support the decision lol.
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China6329 Posts
On January 09 2024 02:58 Waxangel wrote:
I think it's more a problem of nomenclature than anything. Considering how the "playoff MVP award" has been given throughout SCBOY Teamleague history, it should always have been called the "finals MVP" award.
I think calling the other award "second most valuable player" is also bad naming that causes a needless hierarchy between the two awards. They could just have called the two awards "finals MVP" and "(actual) playoff MVP" and the problem would be solved (some players could win both in certain seasons).
I was joking with them that Clem's "SVP" is more like "MVL" (Most Valuable Loser).
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