EPT
Super Tournament 3
AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament/2021/3Streams & Casters
Format
- Single-elimination bracket:
- Round of 16 are Bo5.
- Quarterfinals are Bo5.
- Semifinals are Bo5.
- Finals are Bo7.
Map Pool
Semifinals
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2031.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1099.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1850.jpg)
Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
[GSL] Super Tournament 3 - Finals Day
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Map Pool CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Gilgamesh_
36 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On December 02 2021 17:32 Argonauta wrote: but but.. I was told that late game Terran ghost lib was unbeatable for the zergs.... what is this? It maybe would be if they were even. Rogue mined double of what Cure did. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 17:32 Argonauta wrote: but but.. I was told that late game Terran ghost lib was unbeatable for the zergs.... what is this? Only applies if you play like Maru  | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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tigera6
3398 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On December 02 2021 17:50 deacon.frost wrote: Rogue needs a nickname change to Zapp Brannigan www.youtube.com | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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tigera6
3398 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
On December 02 2021 17:57 swarminfestor wrote: I thought Rogue's ZvT was just not impressive based on his recent performances with Special and Kelazhur. It seems like the preparation really matters. I think Rogue's unique in that his "baseline" form where he's against a random person he hasn't prepared for is weaker than the other premiere level zergs. However, if he has the time (and motivation) to prepare for them, I think he's second to none. So he puts in the effort a couple times a year to win a couple premiere tournaments, and then just plays Maple story the rest of the time lol. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:00 tigera6 wrote: Cure gotta go home early and play in NeXT. Gotta made a real kill at NeXT, crushing Reynor and Serral for good. At least no Maru, Rogue, Solar and Trap is present there. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Absolute monster mode. | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:00 tigera6 wrote: Cure gotta go home early and play in NeXT. Online tournaments is where all the glory is at | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
EDIT: That said, really liking State's casting. Dude's doing an amazing job. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Prediction: Casters hype up Solar for 2 games and Maru 3-0s him EDIT: That said, really liking State's casting. Dude's doing an amazing job. Litterally their job. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Feeling good about my score prediction now sadly. | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:10 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Prediction: Casters hype up Solar for 2 games and Maru 3-0s him EDIT: That said, really liking State's casting. Dude's doing an amazing job. Got a great voice too for this | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Treveis
11 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:20 Mozdk wrote: I guess if Solar had opened gold, he would just autowin with early ling aggression. Right? Looks like it. Honestly that attack of his did surprisingly well from the worst possible set of decisions going into it. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
Edit: Rogue too, for that matter. His first two games weren't as fast, but at least he got a 3-0 too. | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
If he manages to beat Solar and Rogue to win yet another tournament, that’s probably the most dominant he has ever been outside of Code S. Hopefully he keeps this invincible form for KatoWice | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:35 Poopi wrote: One more game Maru! If he manages to beat Solar and Rogue to win yet another tournament, that’s probably the most dominant he has ever been outside of Code S. Hopefully he keeps this invincible form for KatoWice Maru in Korea and outside Korea was always an issue though For w/e reason. But it would be great to see him lift up the trophy, NGL./ | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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LHK
204 Posts
That said i def want maru v rogue | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 18:57 Niravroh wrote: Such a painful move command with those queens It was probably creep command and IMO much more important considering how vulnerable would have been the 4th base. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:08 swarminfestor wrote: Actually, which Zerg unit can fight toe on toe with Ghost? Zerglings / banelings. Gg Maru! Not too difficult of a match, but Rogue will be a different beast | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:10 Poopi wrote: Zerglings / banelings. Gg Maru! Not too difficult of a match, but Rogue will be a different beast With infestor doing some tricks to help bannes detonating Ghost, I cannot think other unit can survive against Ghost's snipe. | ||
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Gilgamesh_
36 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:15 Gilgamesh_ wrote: So is this when the offline bo7 FINALS streak will be broken? It could be. Maru is in top form of TvZ match up right now. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:15 Gilgamesh_ wrote: So is this when the offline bo7 FINALS streak will be broken? I think so, Maru's form is better right now IMO. | ||
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Niravroh
165 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:15 Gilgamesh_ wrote: So is this when the offline bo7 FINALS streak will be broken? Hasn't Zest already broken it? Edit: Nvm you said finals, the series against Zest was a semifinal. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:31 deacon.frost wrote: muhahaha, most dominant Terran and most dominant Zerg ever. Said by Artosis. Noice. Korean overlords confirmed. Wasn't that a given though? Maru surpassed INno after his 4 GSL in a row. Rogue surpassed NesTea a long time ago, probably after BlizzCon+IEM+1+ code S | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:27 Niravroh wrote: Hasn't Zest already broken it? Edit: Nvm you said finals, the series against Zest was a semifinal. Yeah, Bo7 offline streak record had already broken. Only offline final record has not been broken yet. Rogue never lost in offline final matches in his career I guess. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:31 deacon.frost wrote: muhahaha, most dominant Terran and most dominant Zerg ever. Said by Artosis. Noice. Korean overlords confirmed. Let us summon Xain0n | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Gilgamesh_
36 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Emphy
5 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:38 Gilgamesh_ wrote: I kind of prefer the streak holding vs a Maru win that will still not fulfill G5L Also, the rivalry would become pretty one sided if Rogue loses again. Still don't believe that Rogue can do it today, however. GSL doesn't count Super Tournaments for the G5L anyways, or else Maru would've already had it for the Super Tournament where he beat Dark | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:43 Die4Ever wrote: GSL doesn't count Super Tournaments for the G5L anyways, or else Maru would've already had it for the Super Tournament where he beat Dark Otherwise, Rogue also got 4 titles through his first ST win. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:43 Poopi wrote: It’s alright Maru, he is full of tricks but weaker, you can still beat him Doubt that. | ||
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Gilgamesh_
36 Posts
On December 02 2021 19:43 Die4Ever wrote: GSL doesn't count Super Tournaments for the G5L anyways, or else Maru would've already had it for the Super Tournament where he beat Dark Yes, exactly. Streak is in danger though. Every GOAT contender should have his gimmick ;-) | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:06 Die4Ever wrote: Maru so lazy with closing his walls lol Lost an IEM that way. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
to Life, yea | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
Lost many games that way | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
And I love this ling heavy style. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Another to Reynor. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:09 Mozdk wrote: Never seen anyone play as well in a ZvT as Rogue today. Rogue is just a beast today. A zenith level of Zerg player who had better preparation and killer instinct than any other Zerg player in Sc2 history. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
He had a really bad economy to enable enough army to do that, so even though Maru had a late 3rd base, he was not that much behind anyways | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:29 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one thinking that they overstated how ahead Rogue was after the surround? He had a really bad economy to enable enough army to do that, so even though Maru had a late 3rd base, he was not that much behind anyways I don't think they overstated it, because Maru's whole build is designed to keep being on the map and commit more and more the whole game as key upgrades and units hits. He's played this style in big games before. It's rare though. Rogue read it, and went for the army crush move. Which is certainly fine. He also didn't make any units when the first 6 marines showed up, because he recognized the build. He had 5-6 baneslings finishing when the bigger force game. And he had his 20-26 lings. It was exactly enough to give him a good trade. Therefor ahead. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Just imagine that I had replied. Most dominant ever, Artosis likes to joke xd | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Emphy
5 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:52 Emphy wrote: maru had an eco advantage for most of the game, his ghosts are gonna be invincible No he didn't. He was ahead, then lost SCVs too early. He's mined a lot less. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
I preferred the way Rogue handled Maru on that map compared to Serral, especially since it’s no ping + well rested Maru (so much harder to face) | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:57 SamirDuran wrote: How did Maru survive those non-stop attack by Rogue is out of my mind to comprehend. If you check the map it was a constant movement of red dots. And blue dots. Insane. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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True_Spike
Poland3424 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 02 2021 20:57 SamirDuran wrote: How did Maru survive those non-stop attack by Rogue is out of my mind to comprehend. Y'a I wasn't even close to being able to follow the action I don't understand how they could play these kind of games. | ||
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Emphy
5 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:11 Niravroh wrote: This is the best series of all time Mvp Squirtle would like a word That was a real high quality game though, the one before this one and, yeah great series I’m not sure if it’s even better than Maru vs Dark in Super Tournament, but I might be biased on that as I got to watch both their first persons with commentary, and sadly that feed isn’t there anymore | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
m f g the rng gods are with Maru | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Edit> Or not? Hmmm, I wonder. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:20 deacon.frost wrote: Well, Rogue will open the zergling valve and flood Maru now, so probably RIP Maru. Edit> Or not? Hmmm, I wonder. Oe yes xD | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:26 Poopi wrote: Difficult map pool for Maru, congrats Rogue Told you I doubt that Rogue is that weaker one. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3116 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:27 deacon.frost wrote: Told you I doubt that Rogue is that weaker one. I still think he is, Maru’s loss is unfortunate on berlingrad since it’s otherwise doable, and he kinda threw g6. I would favor him at IEM still. A loss in his last tournament before IEM can be beneficial but meh. | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:28 swarminfestor wrote: His offline final record is still intact, though. He never lost offline match, right? Zest in GSL afaik? | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:28 Swisslink wrote: I don‘t really understand why Maru went for the proxy 2 rax in the final game. Afterwards, Rogue was able to control the game quite well and hardly ever struggled, imo. I think is fine, I think Maru can perfectly leverage a scouted 2 proxy rax to a normal game, or, if not scouted, right away win with it. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:29 Poopi wrote: I still think he is, Maru’s loss is unfortunate on berlingrad since it’s otherwise doable, and he kinda threw g6. I would favor him at IEM still. A loss in his last tournament before IEM can be beneficial but meh. Maru threw a game, Rogue threw a game. That's the life. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
I am sorry. His offline final match, to be exact. | ||
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Swisslink
2953 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:29 Argonauta wrote: I think is fine, I think Maru can perfectly leverage a scouted 2 proxy rax to a normal game, or, if not scouted, right away win with it. Against most players I agree, but against someone like Rogue who is actually able to match Maru’s multitasking, it seems too risky. Especially considering Maru did well in the longer games. | ||
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:28 Swisslink wrote: I don‘t really understand why Maru went for the proxy 2 rax in the final game. Afterwards, Rogue was able to control the game quite well and hardly ever struggled, imo. Because the map is super zerg favored with millions of bases (so can’t really split map as well as Hardwire) + gold base like Blackburn so zerg has big eco kick. Basically blackburn having gold is very good for zerg but terran can try to split map relatively well, but on pride of altaris it’s worst of both worlds. Rogue knew he had to survive early game and his scouting pattern was on point Nice to know that Rogue is still the best zerg in the world though | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:29 Argonauta wrote: I think is fine, I think Maru can perfectly leverage a scouted 2 proxy rax to a normal game, or, if not scouted, right away win with it. Maru started crumbling when he lost the Raven. Rogue anticipated that move, preparing Queen at the right position before Maru can do the multitasking move. It same case with widow mines with drilling claw before. Rogue countered Maru before he placed widow mines. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24203 Posts
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:28 Swisslink wrote: I don‘t really understand why Maru went for the proxy 2 rax in the final game. Afterwards, Rogue was able to control the game quite well and hardly ever struggled, imo. Because if you don't Rogue spreads the creep to the gold, then takes the gold, then kills Maru. This map has shitload of bases, is hard to split and has a relatively easy to take gold base. It's zerg heaven. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
They both only lost a Single map on their way to the Finals, they are a League of their own in Korea right now. Just fitting that it went all the way to game 7 | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:31 Swisslink wrote: Against most players I agree, but against someone like Rogue who is actually able to match Maru’s multitasking, it seems too risky. Especially considering Maru did well in the longer games. On this map Maru won't win in the lategame, Maru will get his ass served the same way Cure got his. You cannot force a split map scenario on this map and there's a gold you cannot contest. If 2rax anywhere, it's this map for sure. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4011 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:28 Swisslink wrote: I don‘t really understand why Maru went for the proxy 2 rax in the final game. Afterwards, Rogue was able to control the game quite well and hardly ever struggled, imo. Terran isn't gonna win an even game vs zerg on that map. Let alone against Rogue. Maru was always going to 2rax. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 02 2021 21:51 Morbidius wrote: Why does Rogue leave the best maps for last? Its so weird, certainly you'd want the best maps for you to be the ones you will play for certain. Maybe Rogue expected Maru to proxy rax in that map when it happened at Game 7 just like he mindgamed Dark before. | ||
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tigera6
3398 Posts
And Maru wasnt clean enough on blocking the ling run-by from doing huge damage. In the end, Rogue deserve the win, but Maru is still the best TvZ in the world especially in lategame. | ||
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VladSlymor
80 Posts
On December 02 2021 22:28 tigera6 wrote: Maru went for the exact same play on the exact same location against Scarlett in WTL, so Rogue knew exactly what he went for. Personally I dont mind how that proxy racks played out, because Rogue was forced to make lots of Lings instead of Drone. Then everything went wrong for Maru from the 3 tank push, to the Raven to the dropped Helions. None of those are fatal, but all of them together put him way behind. Even before that, I think Maru would have been in a decent spot, had he been able to save his initial marines. He did a smart bluff on his retreat by not salvaging the bunker and keeping one marine inside, but Rogue still spotted it with a drone at the Xel Naga. Brilliant play from both - thanks for the show and congratz to Rogue! | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On December 02 2021 23:51 JJH777 wrote: Haven't got to watch the games yet but how does Rogue do this days after losing to Special/Lambo and tying Kelazhur? If it was a few weeks I'd understand somewhat but his forms varies like no one else in SC2. Offline is different vs Online. I'd imagine Rogue is understandably better when he's actually awake and prepared vs when he has to play at off hours in the morning. Also Rogue knows Maru and knows how he thinks. They were teammates for years. He's his archnemesis don't let these Serral fans confuse you, Rogue is the guy who Maru fears the most. Still I'm a fan of both players. And so as long as the result is a 4-3 and one of them wins I can sit back and smile about it. At least as long as it's not a Code S. I want Maru to win that G5L more. But a Super Tournament? This result is ok with me, in fact it was what I was expecting all along. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 03 2021 00:00 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Wow, I massively underestimated Rogue's form today. He played some absolutely ridiculous ZvT - always love to see good use of burrow. Overall great series by both players. Rogue never used Infestor and Viper if I am not mistaken. No mutalisk, ultralisk or Blord is observed. The game he won mostly based on Lings/Banes surprise attack, and a couple of roaches. | ||
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tigera6
3398 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On December 02 2021 23:59 Vindicare605 wrote: Offline is different vs Online. I'd imagine Rogue is understandably better when he's actually awake and prepared vs when he has to play at off hours in the morning. Also Rogue knows Maru and knows how he thinks. They were teammates for years. He's his archnemesis don't let these Serral fans confuse you, Rogue is the guy who Maru fears the most. Still I'm a fan of both players. And so as long as the result is a 4-3 and one of them wins I can sit back and smile about it. At least as long as it's not a Code S. I want Maru to win that G5L more. But a Super Tournament? This result is ok with me, in fact it was what I was expecting all along. This would be a decent explanation if pre-Covid Rogue didn't also bomb offline tournaments shortly after winning huge ones. He's just Rogue | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On December 02 2021 22:28 tigera6 wrote: Maru went for the exact same play on the exact same location against Scarlett in WTL, so Rogue knew exactly what he went for. Personally I dont mind how that proxy racks played out, because Rogue was forced to make lots of Lings instead of Drone. Then everything went wrong for Maru from the 3 tank push, to the Raven to the dropped Helions. None of those are fatal, but all of them together put him way behind. And Maru wasnt clean enough on blocking the ling run-by from doing huge damage. In the end, Rogue deserve the win, but Maru is still the best TvZ in the world especially in lategame. Those ling run-bys were giving me IEM 2015 finals flashbacks... Really horrible to watch. This was a series that could have gone in Maru's favor, but I agree that Rogue deserved the win. That last map was especially heartbreaking. Felt like Rogue just knew Maru's whole playbook. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On December 03 2021 01:52 neutralrobot wrote: Those ling run-bys were giving me IEM 2015 finals flashbacks... Really horrible to watch. This was a series that could have gone in Maru's favor, but I agree that Rogue deserved the win. That last map was especially heartbreaking. Felt like Rogue just knew Maru's whole playbook. IEM 2015 was for like $10. He lost Katowice 2018 from not walling his natural properly, and 2020 for leaving it open. They were both for $150k | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On December 03 2021 05:27 Obamarauder wrote: Anyone else think ling runbys is just a broken concept? If theres defense up u just back off, but if not u get a crap ton of damage. yeah but everyone can do it so not really | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10345 Posts
What a match to cap off the 2021 year, between Rogue vs Maru 2 of the GOATS <3 I'm happy Rogue won! | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On December 03 2021 10:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Wow what a match, such impressive play from both Rogue and Maru. What a match to cap off the 2021 year, between Rogue vs Maru 2 of the GOATS <3 I'm happy Rogue won! The Jaedong and Flash of SC2. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
And to out-multitask Maru with multiprong attacks is something I probably haven't seen ever. I strongly believe if Rogue just pulled the trigger on chaos he would have edged that game 5. Stopping, sitting back and letting Maru get all those libs and 20 ghosts was GG. But otherwise almost all games today was all Rogue. He had a good build and strat to take game 2 just waited too long and game 3 was just a throw. Finally I am really surprised Pride wasn't picked by Rogue sooner no Terran wins that map ever lol. Maybe he was that confident that worse case scenario it's going to game7 where I take my freewin? :D | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Lol, always moderate takes. Just no. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On December 03 2021 14:09 swarminfestor wrote: My only wish for the next year is Maru taking IEM Kato trophy while Rogue taking his fourth Code S title. Also, would like to see Clem and Reynor taking part in Code S journey although Reynor attempted to do so before. COVID makes those latter two wishes difficult to accomplish. In the past I would be thrilled to see as many foreigners as possible in Code S, but these last two years it makes sense that they aren't able to. S. Korea takes COVID VERY seriously, I doubt Reynor and Clem could make the commitment to the tournament at all even if they wanted to. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 03 2021 17:05 Vindicare605 wrote: COVID makes those latter two wishes difficult to accomplish. In the past I would be thrilled to see as many foreigners as possible in Code S, but these last two years it makes sense that they aren't able to. S. Korea takes COVID VERY seriously, I doubt Reynor and Clem could make the commitment to the tournament at all even if they wanted to. We've seen some foreign fans in the studio, so it's possibility, but the question is how much they wanna sacrifice for this. Also what happened to the foreign house? Without that it would be even harder. | ||
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cpower
228 Posts
maru really needs to step up his strategy game, why doing 2bb when you can crush him late game?... | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19246 Posts
Not sure why the negative response this post thread when everyone is just being excited. It was absolutely an amazing finals and the way these two played does remind me of a series between Jaedong and Flash. On top of that, these players have truly earned enough to be talked about at JD and Flash level. Let's get back on the same page in appreciation of these two guys. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On December 04 2021 02:31 BisuDagger wrote: Not sure why the negative response this post thread when everyone is just being excited. It was absolutely an amazing finals and the way these two played does remind me of a series between Jaedong and Flash. On top of that, these players have truly earned enough to be talked about at JD and Flash level. Let's get back on the same page in appreciation of these two guys. The final was amazing, the comparison was out of place. | ||
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tigera6
3398 Posts
On December 04 2021 02:20 cpower wrote: rogue knows he can only beat Maru in early mid game and he executed perfectly. maru really needs to step up his strategy game, why doing 2bb when you can crush him late game?... Maru cant get on equal footing with Zerg on that Pride map, Rogue will take the gold base and use that economic advantage to crush Maru before it can reach lategame. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19246 Posts
On December 04 2021 02:40 Xain0n wrote: The final was amazing, the comparison was out of place. Care to elaborate? I'm genuinely curious because I'm not sure there exist two other players that meet that comparison in SC2. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
On December 04 2021 02:20 cpower wrote: rogue knows he can only beat Maru in early mid game and he executed perfectly. maru really needs to step up his strategy game, why doing 2bb when you can crush him late game?... Rogue is a monster in late game, he’s just scarier when he has some prep time because he’s equally willing to just go and kill you. A player like Serral is much more likely to bet on his ability to grind anyone down in straight up lategame slugfests, and he’s usually right unless he’s playing Maru. Maru’s super lategame is without peer, but he can’t execute it every game, for one I imagine it’s extremely hard to play on that knife edge without making mistakes, and more importantly you need the architecture of the map to help out. I don’t think even Maru can pull that style off on Altaris, he took a risk with a proxy that didn’t pay off, but hey that happens and he transitions smoothly out of it, there’s a reason he’s made more money out of proxying buildings than many pros have building in their bases. It’s just pretty cutthroat at this level when both Rogue and Maru show up and are both playing well, if he made a blunder that last game it was pumping out a Raven and losing it nearly for free. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 04 2021 02:43 BisuDagger wrote: Care to elaborate? I'm genuinely curious because I'm not sure there exist two other players that meet that comparison in SC2. I think the current (lack of) competitiveness of SC2 makes that comparison extremely stupid at best. | ||
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Moonerz
United States446 Posts
On December 04 2021 05:06 Durnuu wrote: I think the current (lack of) competitiveness of SC2 makes that comparison extremely stupid at best. Well to be fair it does seem/feel like most tournaments are going to be won by Maru/Rogue at this point, so I can kind of understand the comparison a bit. Though I do think that if He Who Must Not Be Named never got banned that it would have been Maru and him as the Jaedong/Flash comparison and unfortunately we were robbed of that by some bad decision making. Also I don't think it's really possible for there to be such a prolonged period of dominance in SC2 just because the game inherently has more parity than BW for a variety of reasons. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Maru definitely matches Flash's dominance. Rogue's dominance is more questionable (due to the best Zerg crown being shared with the likes of Serral, Reynor and Dark). The comparison isn't perfect. But neither is it a total stretch. (Personally, I see signs of the comparison converging, but not very concrete as yet.) | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom428 Posts
But we all know the GOAT is still Mvp. edit: actually I think it's important to consider when people say the current era is "less competitive" that it has less players, but the skill level remains higher than ever before. I don't think the game has ever been as demanding on players as it is in the meta from the last couple of years. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On December 04 2021 20:01 LemonyTang wrote: Absolutely fantastic finals. But we all know the GOAT is still Mvp. edit: actually I think it's important to consider when people say the current era is "less competitive" that it has less players, but the skill level remains higher than ever before. I don't think the game has ever been as demanding on players as it is in the meta from the last couple of years. yeah but less players means that it's easier to win tournaments. The top players nowadays almost always reach the GSL playoffs and always the ro16 which means they only have to win a couple series vs similarly skilled players to win it. In 2013-2015 even the best player occasionally didn't even made it through Code A | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
So one could equally argue that victories during the early years of SC2 worth less. Also, GSL happened more frequently, so players had more chances of winning. Maru was winning during 'peak elephant' period. Winning against Rain, Inno, Classic, Stats, Zest, etc. And now fending off the new-gen champions like Rogue, Dark, Trap, etc. Maru is a champion of all seasons. I'm not even a fan of both players, but at this rate in 2021 it's really tough to still argue that Mvp is greater than Maru... (As much as I adore Boxer due to his pimp plays and being the first Terran champion, I wouldn't consider him as Tesagi GOAT of BW. Nada, iloveoov and Flash has a better claim to that crown.) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On December 05 2021 12:53 RKC wrote: Mvp was only winning before the BW elephants came stomping in (and then 'migrated' out of KR during the twilight of his career). So one could equally argue that victories during the early years of SC2 worth less. Also, GSL happened more frequently, so players had more chances of winning. Maru was winning during 'peak elephant' period. Winning against Rain, Inno, Classic, Stats, Zest, etc. And now fending off the new-gen champions like Rogue, Dark, Trap, etc. Maru is a champion of all seasons. I'm not even a fan of both players, but at this rate in 2021 it's really tough to still argue that Mvp is greater than Maru... (As much as I adore Boxer due to his pimp plays and being the first Terran champion, I wouldn't consider him as Tesagi GOAT of BW. Nada, iloveoov and Flash has a better claim to that crown.) Yeah I agree with this and it's the main reason why I think Maru has the best Goat claim. Rogue's tournament collection might look slightly more impressive but all his wins came in the Post-Kespa era in which it is significantly easier to win due to the reduced player pool. Also I think Inno should always stay in the conversation for being the most succesful player in the 'peak elephant' era | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 05 2021 19:32 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah I agree with this and it's the main reason why I think Maru has the best Goat claim. Rogue's tournament collection might look slightly more impressive but all his wins came in the Post-Kespa era in which it is significantly easier to win due to the reduced player pool. Also I think Inno should always stay in the conversation for being the most succesful player in the 'peak elephant' era Yes, same here. Although his dominant reign was patchy (pun intended!), Inno still remains in the top 3 Terran bonjwa. Around the same level as TY. Definitely higher than Mvp and Byun, in my book. I never really understood the obsession with Mvp as GOAT. Or maybe I understand too well, and grown out of it. See, for a long time, I absolutely idolised Boxer. I grew up watching BW at his peak, dropped off slightly during Nada and iloveoov era, and picked up again during Flash. For some time, I refused to acknowledge any peer to Boxer. But as I watched more games of the rest, understood the context of each era better, and basically grew more objective as I grew older, I finally relented to the reality - that I could still adore Boxer as my favourite Terran player while acknowledging that he isn't necessarily the greatest Terran player. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
Someone in my lifetime may come and surpass Tiger Woods’ major counts, but will there be a greater golfer? From early Tiger dominating fields and the field not really believing they can beat him, thru to him winning a major on one leg, to clinching that last one after literal and figurative car crashes. There’s quite a parallel with Mvp, he had a period where he was just the best player by a decent distance, and was still outfoxing opponents while hampered with injury. His injuries may have damaged his career, but they solidified his greatness. If he’d been the King of Wings and just tailed off in level I think people would rate him more similarly to an MC Maru certainly is in contention for both GOAT and best player, but he has had a lot of factors in his favour. Absolutely not his fault that he started early, very young and avoided injuries of course. As a perennial fence sitter I think it’s super hard to compare eras and other factors, to establish an outright GOAT requires a Wayne Gretzky level talent, being part of the conversation is the best folks can hope for | ||
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Elentos
55552 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On December 05 2021 23:50 Elentos wrote: The year is 2021, Legacy of the Void has survived more than twice as long as Mvp's career as a top level player, all of Mvp's achievements have been completely eclipsed. How does his name even come up? BROKEN BACK | ||
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On December 06 2021 04:02 JJH777 wrote: I don't think Mvp is the GOAT anymore but he still does have one of the most impressive trophy lists in SC2. 3 starleagues, Blizzcon, GSL vs The World, MLG, and more. Granted he had some benefits going for him back then with the amount of tournaments available to play in and Kespa not transferring over but he is still very high on the list. Top 5 or so depending on whether you include Life or not. The only players clearly above him imo are Maru, Rogue, and Inno. And sOs and Zest for sure. The rest are arguable but perosnally I wouldnt put Mvp into my top 15 of all time list. He just didnt plat long enough to be that relevant despite the achievements. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
$o$ had some huge wins and was generally a top player for quite a span, but Mvp had a decent period where he was considered the outright best player in the world. If we’re talking greatest of all time I definitely bump players up who were the greatest at a time, so Inno, Maru, he who must not be named etc. Also in strategy games I’ll give some bonus points for people who were there earlier and figured out and fleshed out how the game is meant to be played. Plus bonus points for what he managed through injury I don’t think it’s outrageous to put Mvp down lower by any means but those are my rationales | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On December 06 2021 18:29 MarianoSC2 wrote: And sOs and Zest for sure. The rest are arguable but perosnally I wouldnt put Mvp into my top 15 of all time list. He just didnt plat long enough to be that relevant despite the achievements. Not just sOs and Zest, TY too. TY is the former world champion and WESG champion, also the first player to win premier tournament while working as caster. That is a still huge achievement for me. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19246 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
On December 07 2021 02:42 BisuDagger wrote: You can pick at any comparison between any sport. But if there are two opposing players of any sport/game dominating for a period of time together then it makes for a fair comparison. No one is attempting to lower the degree or pedigree of which Flash and Jaedong earned their titles. It's more like, Bob has won 5 world cup checkers tournaments playing red and George has won 4 playing black. They are the Flash and Jaedong of checkers right now. After that statement, we don't need to ask how many checkers players competed in the Checkers World Cup or what the prize pool was, or what the conditions were like during the tournaments (outdoor but rainy and chilly for the first 15 cups unlike the past 9 perfect weather indoor checkers cups). The statement is a complement of achievement comparing SC1 and SC2 and unless you find a better Zerg/Terran duo from Brood War that you feel can better compare the two, then it doesn't need any more analysis. 100%, also happy cake day oh fan of Bisu! | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19246 Posts
Thanks! When I finally head to the UK we'll share a pint together even if I'm a scotch man.  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25507 Posts
On December 07 2021 03:24 BisuDagger wrote: Thanks! When I finally head to the UK we'll share a pint together even if I'm a scotch man. My da was bloody called Angus so if you think I’m against scotch you’re mistaken :p | ||
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