EPTDHM Winter Season Finals 2021 - Group Stage + Playoffs - P…
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Kreuger
Sweden862 Posts
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JJH777
United States4418 Posts
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Poopi
France12912 Posts
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koalabro
59 Posts
On November 13 2021 04:21 JJH777 wrote: Damn I was really hoping Maru would get Clem to see if he can improve his perfect TvT (besides TY) record further. Dark feels like the hardest possible opponent. Maru is way better than TY at TvT. Always has been and always will be. | ||
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JJH777
United States4418 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:20 koalabro wrote: Maru is way better than TY at TvT. Always has been and always will be. I agree completely. That was just referring to the fact that a bo3 vs TY is Maru's only TvT loss this year. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:20 koalabro wrote: Maru is way better than TY at TvT. Always has been and always will be. That's evidently not true. It's not true in the h2h, not true if you look at the historical record. | ||
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aringadingding
481 Posts
On November 13 2021 03:55 MarianoSC2 wrote: Holy shit what a game. Showtime is really good at Protoss lategame, Maru had to work super hard for that win ! Yeah, he is good. Very good. But he will not be anyway NEAR a success in a bigger tourney. Zest, Trap, (maybe parting?) those guys can go deep sometimes in bigger tourney, but apart from them I dont see any toss making finishing on top in the future (apart from NA, or maybe the occational ST) | ||
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Poopi
France12912 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:25 Xain0n wrote: That's evidently not true. It's not true in the h2h, not true if you look at the historical record. Maru is way ahead in aligulac rating in TvT, and since they both play in Korea the ratings should be pretty accurate. It’s not even close. TY is a very good preparation player however, so he can make some upsets happen when given the time. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
Maru > Dark Scarlett < Zest Serral > Rogue Maru > Trap Zest < Serral #BELIEVE | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:40 Poopi wrote: Maru is way ahead in aligulac rating in TvT, and since they both play in Korea the ratings should be pretty accurate. It’s not even close. TY is a very good preparation player however, so he can make some upsets happen when given the time. Is this a real answer? TY is not active anymore. Aligulac's rating tells us that Maru is stronger at the moment... Both their career TvT record(iirc TY's TvT win rate is even higher than Mvp's and the best in GSL's history) and their h2h leave no doubt, TY was the stronger mirror player overall. | ||
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Poopi
France12912 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:56 Xain0n wrote: Is this a real answer? TY is not active anymore. Aligulac's rating tells us that Maru is stronger at the moment... Both their career TvT record(iirc TY's TvT win rate is even higher than Mvp's and the best in GSL's history) and their h2h leave no doubt, TY was the stronger mirror player overall. http://aligulac.com/records/race/?race=T TY highest TvT’s rating is #5 (#4 if we exclude Clem who face mostly foreign terrans). Since he stopped playing relatively recently, the ratings haven’t inflated that much (though Maru was the main terran to benefit from TY departure). With TY being so good at preparation, that explains why he was able to do so well against Maru in tournaments such as GSL. You can ask the terrans that played against both, I am pretty sure they would rather face TY in a weekender than Maru (and since foreign terrans don’t play in preparation style tournaments they do not really care about TY’s boost in such tourneys) | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On November 13 2021 05:46 virpi wrote: Trap > Clem Maru > Dark Scarlett < Zest Serral > Rogue Maru > Trap Zest < Serral #BELIEVE I believe! (that it will end in 4-0 series featuring two failled proxy and a roach-ravager-bane bust) | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 13 2021 06:08 Poopi wrote: http://aligulac.com/records/race/?race=T TY highest TvT’s rating is #5 (#4 if we exclude Clem who face mostly foreign terrans). Since he stopped playing relatively recently, the ratings haven’t inflated that much (though Maru was the main terran to benefit from TY departure). With TY being so good at preparation, that explains why he was able to do so well against Maru in tournaments such as GSL. You can ask the terrans that played against both, I am pretty sure they would rather face TY in a weekender than Maru (and since foreign terrans don’t play in preparation style tournaments they do not really care about TY’s boost in such tourneys) Since TY became a top player he has been consistently excellent in TvT, preparation format or not; Maru, on the other hand, was relatively weak in TvT in 2018 for example(it was his worst matchup in his best year). When Maru became godlike in TvT again at the end of 2020, it was TY who beat him the most(three times); their WESG(a non preparation format) final was won by TY. The overall numbers are in favor of TY, your are blinded by your love for Maru here. | ||
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Poopi
France12912 Posts
On November 13 2021 06:45 Xain0n wrote: Since TY became a top player he has been consistently excellent in TvT, preparation format or not; Maru, on the other hand, was relatively weak in TvT in 2018 for example(it was his worst matchup in his best year). When Maru became godlike in TvT again at the end of 2020, it was TY who beat him the most(three times); their WESG(a non preparation format) final was won by TY. The overall numbers are in favor of TY, your are blinded by your love for Maru here. Well I don’t agree with the initial poster that Maru has always been better at TvT than TY, but he reached a higher peak in the match-up for sure. Basically ever since he got his injury / played more online and somehow started playing more late game in every match-up, he slowly but surely became a TvT master. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 13 2021 07:23 Poopi wrote: Well I don’t agree with the initial poster that Maru has always been better at TvT than TY, but he reached a higher peak in the match-up for sure. Basically ever since he got his injury / played more online and somehow started playing more late game in every match-up, he slowly but surely became a TvT master. Maru's showed his new TvT prowess at King of Battle. Since that period to TY's retirement in June 2021, Mary went 15-5 whereas TY went 19-7 in that matchup. Guess who won both their h2h? TY, 4-2 to triumph at Code S S3 2020 and 2-0 at Katowice. After that, Mary is 14-0 in TvT; no one can apparently best him in the mirror matchup in a world without TY. Is Maru better than TY as a TvT player considering the entirety of their careers? No, it's not even close. Was he better right before TY's retirement? Hard to say overall, Maru still couldn't beat him. | ||
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tigera6
3484 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 13 2021 06:45 Xain0n wrote: Maru, on the other hand, was relatively weak in TvT in 2018 for example(it was his worst matchup in his best year). You just made this up. Maru has one loss that year to TY, 1-2 in the Katowice group stage. And even then he beat TY in the GSL final which has a lot more weight there. He also lost a weird match when Keen cyclone rushed him in a GSL group, and then he easily beat him in the decider match that counts a lot more. That's it, that's all two of the notable TvT losses. It's true he didn't play much TvT in 2018 because terran in general was trash and none of the others except TY made it deep enough to be a challenge. That's not the same as Maru being weak. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
Also obligatory: | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 13 2021 14:26 Fango wrote: You just made this up. Maru has one loss that year to TY, 1-2 in the Katowice group stage. And even then he beat TY in the GSL final which has a lot more weight there. He also lost a weird match when Keen cyclone rushed him in a GSL group, and then he easily beat him in the decider match that counts a lot more. That's it, that's all two of the notable TvT losses. It's true he didn't play much TvT in 2018 because terran in general was trash and none of the others except TY made it deep enough to be a challenge. That's not the same as Maru being weak. Relatively is the key, Maru wasn't weak in TvT. I remembered Maru playing more TvT and winning less of those in 2018, even if some of those victories were achieved agaist players of much inferior caliber. I was mixing it up with his unspectacular TvT performance in 2019 which is when he felt vulnerable in the matchup. | ||
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tilhorizon
Germany191 Posts
if showtime is just 1% slower/worse than nice, nice could have won , always trying to unnecesseary hype players that truly dont have the skill to belong there we need to seriously adress the issue with to few eu slots why we have players like teebul and nice playing when we have players like reynor heromarine lambo maxpax at home, even special is not better than those put TW/HK/JP Division and Oceana / Rest of Asia devision and China Devision into 1 Division with 1 spot put Latin America division into combined America Divison for 2 spots than we have 3 more spots to eu that would be fair how can we justify telling those eu players that they despite the fact that they are better cant play because they live in eu and not in asia it would be more fair skillwise and we get better tournaments and less akward games with casters either lie ore try to make players better than they are the game should be about skill and players should not be discriminated and punished because they live in the eu "edit ore 2 more spots for eu and 1 more spot for kor" | ||
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