• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:22
CEST 13:22
KST 20:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 927 users

NeXT 2021 Season 1 SC2 Masters - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
153 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 08 2021 12:44 GMT
#61
This game just keeps on going huh
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
thickertom
Profile Joined December 2014
China612 Posts
June 08 2021 12:51 GMT
#62
Game 2 of Kelazhur vs Dark is like ... XY vs XiGua (last year) ...
I love SC2
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6922 Posts
June 08 2021 13:13 GMT
#63
That game 3... I feel bad for Kela. That was harsh
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 08 2021 14:12 GMT
#64
Those angry, angry archons zouned Dark out!
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
June 08 2021 14:33 GMT
#65
Well done by TIME!
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 09 2021 11:46 GMT
#66
Maru's turtling style simply is not working against Serral.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3381 Posts
June 09 2021 12:03 GMT
#67
On June 09 2021 20:46 Xain0n wrote:
Maru's turtling style simply is not working against Serral.

He get the wrong army composition by a mile, Serral was never on mass Lurker, it was still LingBaneUltra and Maru got almost none widow mines to deal with it. Serral then just simply rolling in the banes and taking control of the map while trading out for PF. Maru cant do a thing about it because he was simply too dried out despite trading heavily favorite. At one points Maru was making 5-6 Vikings for no apparent reason, maybe hes expecting the switch to Broodlord?
Just simply out-played and out-strategized on both games.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6922 Posts
June 09 2021 12:19 GMT
#68
On June 09 2021 21:03 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2021 20:46 Xain0n wrote:
Maru's turtling style simply is not working against Serral.

He get the wrong army composition by a mile, Serral was never on mass Lurker, it was still LingBaneUltra and Maru got almost none widow mines to deal with it. Serral then just simply rolling in the banes and taking control of the map while trading out for PF. Maru cant do a thing about it because he was simply too dried out despite trading heavily favorite. At one points Maru was making 5-6 Vikings for no apparent reason, maybe hes expecting the switch to Broodlord?
Just simply out-played and out-strategized on both games.


There was an Ultra?
Serral dominated him start to finish and gave him no time to brearth. Did Maru even kill a drone in this game?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1214 Posts
June 09 2021 12:47 GMT
#69
The difference between Serral's ZvZ and his other match ups is really night and day.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4004 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-09 14:09:42
June 09 2021 14:03 GMT
#70
Yeah Serral's ZvZ is so strangely bad, considering how much zvz practice he has ...
Match history (bo3+) since January 2020:
non zvz: 102 wins vs 14 losses (7 of which are to Clem only and 7 to EVERY OTHER NON-ZERG COMBINED)
zvz: 33 wins vs 17 losses
Kinda self-explanatory. Can't win championships with Rogue, Solar, Dark and Reynor around ...
Drone is a way of living
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 09 2021 14:36 GMT
#71
The funny thing is that ZvZ was arguably Serral's best matchup from his ascension to Katowice 2020, he went 76-5 losing four series to Reynor.
It's not a matter of practice, it looks like he's not at ease playing in a meta and on maps that favour styles so much different from the standard one he was so utterly dominating with.
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4004 Posts
June 09 2021 14:46 GMT
#72
well yes and no ...
I mean its strange to me that a player of this caliber would have issues adapting to meta.
However your point of him being strong in this particular match-up in long games excelling in scouting, defensive army positioning and multi-tasking is valid. We all remember in Montreal every zerg was trying to counter Serral by cutting some corners knowing his super-safe style of play.
Today they either don't let him get there without huge disadvantage or "force" some weird all-in play which does not suit his playstyle, regardless of what Rotti says.
Still. Not being able to adapt with all the practice vs top zergs is strange to me.
Drone is a way of living
Starcloud
Profile Joined September 2018
137 Posts
June 09 2021 17:14 GMT
#73
The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.

I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases.
However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.

Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.

In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
June 09 2021 21:20 GMT
#74
On June 10 2021 02:14 Starcloud wrote:
The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.

I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases.
However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.

Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.

In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.


I don't buy this "it's all in his thought process/mentality" explanation. You're overreading into the things he says. Serral does mix it up, and do his fair share of "stupid" builds. It's like when people claim that "Serral is bad against mutas". Not really, it's just that mutas are very strong in ZvZ when you don't get hardcountered and die while transitioning into them.

ZvZ's simply a tricky match-up that a lot of the European pros get a lot of practice in, and the symmetry of a mirror match-up makes the skill set needed for it somewhat different than the other match-ups. There doesn't need to be a deep explanation for why Serral's not as good at it than his other match-ups. Players frequently have a worst match-up.
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 09 2021 22:58 GMT
#75
On June 10 2021 06:20 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2021 02:14 Starcloud wrote:
The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.

I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases.
However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.

Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.

In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.


I don't buy this "it's all in his thought process/mentality" explanation. You're overreading into the things he says. Serral does mix it up, and do his fair share of "stupid" builds. It's like when people claim that "Serral is bad against mutas". Not really, it's just that mutas are very strong in ZvZ when you don't get hardcountered and die while transitioning into them.

ZvZ's simply a tricky match-up that a lot of the European pros get a lot of practice in, and the symmetry of a mirror match-up makes the skill set needed for it somewhat different than the other match-ups. There doesn't need to be a deep explanation for why Serral's not as good at it than his other match-ups. Players frequently have a worst match-up.


It's not as easy as you are making it to be, too; Serral's ZvZ used to be at least on par, if not better, with his other matchups and it dropped quite abruptly and quite relevantly in 2020/2021.
The question is why this change happened, historically Serral's ZvZ is not his weakest and not even a weak matchup by any standard.
parksonsc
Profile Joined May 2019
175 Posts
June 10 2021 05:22 GMT
#76
Why are we talking too much about a player who couldn't manage top 4 Europe?
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
June 10 2021 05:50 GMT
#77
On June 10 2021 14:22 parksonsc wrote:
Why are we talking too much about a player who couldn't manage top 4 Europe?


Given that he's playing in the current group, all this Serral talk is actually on topic for once.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6922 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-10 07:25:02
June 10 2021 07:23 GMT
#78
On June 10 2021 14:22 parksonsc wrote:
Why are we talking too much about a player who couldn't manage top 4 Europe?

I don't even...

Anyone know what happened to the second match yesterday?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3381 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-10 10:17:08
June 10 2021 09:07 GMT
#79
On June 10 2021 16:23 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2021 14:22 parksonsc wrote:
Why are we talking too much about a player who couldn't manage top 4 Europe?

I don't even...

Anyone know what happened to the second match yesterday?

It was re-scheduled to today due to some technical issue with the player.

Edit: Goddamn, it started 1hr early today, just missed the first match of Zest vs MaxPax.
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3475 Posts
June 10 2021 10:33 GMT
#80
Maxpax vs Zest was basically 4gate > 1gate
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 3
Classic vs ShoWTimELIVE!
Cure vs RogueLIVE!
Serral vs TBD
Maru vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
EWC_Arena6917
ComeBackTV 2206
EWC_Arena_2903
Hui .537
TaKeTV 446
3DClanTV 293
Berry_CruncH254
JimRising 244
Rex203
Reynor133
CranKy Ducklings109
mcanning82
SpeCial60
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena6917
EWC_Arena_2903
Hui .537
JimRising 244
Rex 203
Reynor 133
mcanning 82
SpeCial 60
ProTech49
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 9921
Bisu 1416
Flash 1408
BeSt 1136
firebathero 927
Jaedong 705
EffOrt 435
Hyuk 353
Stork 330
Zeus 267
[ Show more ]
actioN 199
Soma 175
Mini 169
ggaemo 168
ToSsGirL 164
Soulkey 159
Last 142
Mind 132
Snow 100
Hyun 98
JulyZerg 85
Pusan 79
ZerO 78
Sacsri 37
Sharp 31
NaDa 29
soO 29
sorry 28
yabsab 22
Noble 15
Movie 12
Sea.KH 9
Icarus 8
ivOry 6
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma225
XcaliburYe220
League of Legends
febbydoto7
Counter-Strike
x6flipin533
Other Games
singsing2286
B2W.Neo685
Beastyqt274
crisheroes209
Fuzer 164
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV263
League of Legends
• Stunt535
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
23h 38m
OSC
1d 2h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 22h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.