Netease returns with the first season of their flagship esports competition in 2021.
Format
16 player dual tournament. All 16 slots will be determined through server qualifiers: 7 from KR, 6 from EU, 2 from NA and 1 from CN. Playoffs changes to best of 5 with best of 7 finals.
Prize pool
1st: $7,668/¥50,000, plus 250 EPT points 2nd: $4,601/¥30,000, plus 180 EPT points 3rd: $3,067/¥20,000, plus 125 EPT points 4th: $1,534/¥10,000, plus 125 EPT points 5th-8th: $920/¥6,000, plus 75 EPT points 9th-12th: $460/¥3,000, plus 50 EPT points 13th-16th: $153/¥1,000, plus 25 EPT points
I think it is dumb to have only one person per qualifier, but you may also have a lot of more chance if you fail. Anyway, it is always good to have another tournament that has EPT points.
On April 19 2021 01:39 pzlama333 wrote: I think it is dumb to have only one person per qualifier, but you may also have a lot of more chance if you fail. Anyway, it is always good to have another tournament that has EPT points.
Same. Feel that they could just do like 3 with top 2 advance + one wildcard with winner advance for KR, and 3 for EU with top 2 advance, cuts down resources and time need for the admins and avoid this KR #7's conflict with TSL7 KR quali.
Qualifier is already on the way, and Solar is the first player to qualify, through the CN qualifier. Seems like a pretty stack 6-7 days of qualifier to come.
On April 21 2021 00:54 tigera6 wrote: To add more flavor, Showtime went with 10 Stalkers build against Clem only to find out he researched Glaive instead.
Yes so sad for Tobias when he tried to blink in Clem's main base and understood that he has researched glaive... Instant GG.
GG to Clem for beating Serral in such convincing way... Not worried about the king of the north he will qualify next time except if hyperion cross his way
On April 20 2021 20:55 thickertom wrote: hyperion won Reynor in EU Server Q1...
That's a 2000+ difference in aligulac rating--I can't remember the last time anything of the sort happened. Pretty crazy. And hyperion is presumably dealing with at least 200 ping?
On April 20 2021 20:55 thickertom wrote: hyperion won Reynor in EU Server Q1...
That's a 2000+ difference in aligulac rating--I can't remember the last time anything of the sort happened. Pretty crazy. And hyperion is presumably dealing with at least 200 ping?
Is there a cast of that? Seems like a walkover to me, if not, then it's hilarious.
On April 20 2021 20:55 thickertom wrote: hyperion won Reynor in EU Server Q1...
That's a 2000+ difference in aligulac rating--I can't remember the last time anything of the sort happened. Pretty crazy. And hyperion is presumably dealing with at least 200 ping?
Is there a cast of that? Seems like a walkover to me, if not, then it's hilarious.
On April 20 2021 20:55 thickertom wrote: hyperion won Reynor in EU Server Q1...
That's a 2000+ difference in aligulac rating--I can't remember the last time anything of the sort happened. Pretty crazy. And hyperion is presumably dealing with at least 200 ping?
Is there a cast of that? Seems like a walkover to me, if not, then it's hilarious.
I wonder three things : 1) how this will affect their aligulac ratings 2) what the chess equivalent of such a series would be... Something like Carlsen losing to a 2200 player ? And I'm not even taking the EU server factor into account ! 3) is it the biggest rating (still on aligulac) gap in a series that the lower rated player won ?
On April 20 2021 20:55 thickertom wrote: hyperion won Reynor in EU Server Q1...
That's a 2000+ difference in aligulac rating--I can't remember the last time anything of the sort happened. Pretty crazy. And hyperion is presumably dealing with at least 200 ping?
Is there a cast of that? Seems like a walkover to me, if not, then it's hilarious.
I wonder three things : 1) how this will affect their aligulac ratings 2) what the chess equivalent of such a series would be... Something like Carlsen losing to a 2200 player ? And I'm not even taking the EU server factor into account ! 3) is it the biggest rating (still on aligulac) gap in a series that the lower rated player won ?
In the current aligulac period for ZvZ (which does include a few other ZvZs for both players) Hyperion has gained 53 points, and Reynor has dropped 82, so a 135 point swing.
It's pretty hard to do a comparison to chess since top level chess is so draw heavy, and top players much more rarely play much weaker players, but a 700 FIDE elo does sound about right. That gives an expected value of: 0.02 which is fairly similar to hyperion's odds against Reynor in a bo3 (though given that it's chess it's basically the chance of a 2000 drawing Carlsen).
The last question is the most interesting one to me. I certainly can't remember any upset of the sort. This could probably be queried from the aligulac postgres db.
edit: I'm looking through the Aligulac db right now and this seems to be the biggest upset in SCII history.
First day of AM qualifier on the way and we dont see any top AM player in it, which is kinda strange. Is it because the time of the main tournament shall be in 6-7pm local time, which is too early for AM player in general, so they might want to skip this one?
On April 22 2021 12:52 tigera6 wrote: First day of AM qualifier on the way and we dont see any top AM player in it, which is kinda strange. Is it because the time of the main tournament shall be in 6-7pm local time, which is too early for AM player in general, so they might want to skip this one?
My gues would be, that they didn t bother, because they expected more top Players from EU and Kr and figured they had no Chance qualifying anyways. Super happy for MaxPax. Qualifying with 2-0 Zest, 2-0 Has at 4am is quite the Power move
On April 22 2021 13:51 warnull wrote: The AM qualifiers start at 10pm EDT, which is way too late in the day for people on the east coast, like Scarlett.
Yesterday the EU qualifier took just like 3 and half hours. I really don't think time is the issue
EDIT: MaxPax basically just played through the night and won.
On April 27 2021 22:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: his TvP looked exceptionally strong, I really hope he shows such prowess in his GSL semis
It was amazing. He showed such diversity of build and strats. He defended against all kinds of aggression, from proxy Void Rays, to proxy 1-gate Zealot, to fast 4-gate blink stalkers. He played macro games, and mine drops, against completely different kinds of Protoss players (Trap, Zest, PartinG).
I hope that he can lift his 5th GSL trophy this season.
Based on what I saw here it looks like Maru should absolutely murder Trap in the semis. Their strenght in the matchup seems worlds apart. And I dont believe in a general narrative that Trap was hiding builds and shit like that. If he wanted to hide, he wouldnt have attended these qualifiers.
On April 28 2021 19:19 MarianoSC2 wrote: Based on what I saw here it looks like Maru should absolutely murder Trap in the semis. Their strenght in the matchup seems worlds apart. And I dont believe in a general narrative that Trap was hiding builds and shit like that. If he wanted to hide, he wouldnt have attended these qualifiers.
Yeah, the idea of Trap playing 3 qualifers, each 3-4 hours long, only to lose in the end because he was "hiding" some PvT build is not that convincing Plus, I dont really see Trap as a Toss who come up with new, innovative build like Zest or Parting. His PvT game is more about macro and micro nowadays.
Why Neeb doesn't play in NA qualifications? And what happened with Astrea, he improved so much last year but now didn't see him play anything for months, he took a break?
On April 29 2021 15:35 riche wrote: Why Neeb doesn't play in NA qualifications? And what happened with Astrea, he improved so much last year but now didn't see him play anything for months, he took a break?
On April 29 2021 18:40 darklycid wrote: Mega lineup and then there are maxpax and creator sneakin in (also kinda mehish on the toss side overall imo)
I just dont really understand the method of seeding during some of the qualifier, it just seems like most the top KR players got pushed into one side of the bracket and eliminate each other, while the other side of the bracket was pretty much straight forward.
On April 29 2021 18:40 darklycid wrote: Mega lineup and then there are maxpax and creator sneakin in (also kinda mehish on the toss side overall imo)
I just dont really understand the method of seeding during some of the qualifier, it just seems like most the top KR players got pushed into one side of the bracket and eliminate each other, while the other side of the bracket was pretty much straight forward.
Showtime vs lambo in the very first round of the last eu qualifier, i think you're onto something here
On April 29 2021 18:40 darklycid wrote: Mega lineup and then there are maxpax and creator sneakin in (also kinda mehish on the toss side overall imo)
I just dont really understand the method of seeding during some of the qualifier, it just seems like most the top KR players got pushed into one side of the bracket and eliminate each other, while the other side of the bracket was pretty much straight forward.
Showtime vs lambo in the very first round of the last eu qualifier, i think you're onto something here
I can only assume they're dumping everyone into the bracket at random.
Group C would favor the KR players imo, group D would depend on the form of Reynor to see if Solar or Cure would make it. Group B is absolute stacked with MaxPax as a real dark horse. Group A is also insane with any player can get out of the group.
also, Grp B is the group of death of the groups of death
Yes!
Group C (June 7/8): Kelazhur vs TIME, Zoun vs Dark Group B (June 9/10): Maru vs Serral (!!!), Zest vs MaxPax Group A (June 14/15): Clem vs Elazer, HeroMarine vs Trap Group D (June 16/17): Solar vs Creator, Cure vs Reynor
All groups are played over two days, initial matches on day 1, winners/losers/decider on day 2.
also, Grp B is the group of death of the groups of death
Yes!
Group C (June 7/8): Kelazhur vs TIME, Zoun vs Dark Group B (June 9/10): Maru vs Serral (!!!), Zest vs MaxPax Group A (June 14/15): Clem vs Elazer, HeroMarine vs Trap Group D (June 16/17): Solar vs Creator, Cure vs Reynor
All groups are played over two days, initial matches on day 1, winners/losers/decider on day 2.
They are really gonna play each group out over 2 days why? It's only 5 BO3 per group GSL has been doing a whole group per day forever why can't NeXT? Seems kind of dumb to have a stream for just 2 and 3 BO3's respectively per day.
On June 07 2021 19:04 tigera6 wrote: First group matches are an hour away, so its time to dig the thread up. Btw I am expecting Dark and Zoun to come out of this group.
On June 07 2021 19:04 tigera6 wrote: First group matches are an hour away, so its time to dig the thread up. Btw I am expecting Dark and Zoun to come out of this group.
The winner of Kela vs TIME has a shot.
Group B though. Can't wait for that one
Group B is going to be amazing I actually think that both starting matches are somewhat close there. And if Max gets super lucky, I could even see him advance by beating Zest twice.
On June 07 2021 19:04 tigera6 wrote: First group matches are an hour away, so its time to dig the thread up. Btw I am expecting Dark and Zoun to come out of this group.
The winner of Kela vs TIME has a shot.
On June 08 2021 20:38 Durnuu wrote: Fun third game between TIME and Zoun
Though I feel Time could have closed that game 10 minutes earlier but prefered to almost throw it
On June 07 2021 19:04 tigera6 wrote: First group matches are an hour away, so its time to dig the thread up. Btw I am expecting Dark and Zoun to come out of this group.
On May 30 2021 00:01 Nostromo1 wrote: They are really gonna play each group out over 2 days why? It's only 5 BO3 per group GSL has been doing a whole group per day forever why can't NeXT? Seems kind of dumb to have a stream for just 2 and 3 BO3's respectively per day.
NeXT is a comprehensive E-sports tournament with War3, SC2, FIFA, Hearthstone, Overwatch and so on. These events may use the same channel or be in the same time.
On June 09 2021 20:46 Xain0n wrote: Maru's turtling style simply is not working against Serral.
He get the wrong army composition by a mile, Serral was never on mass Lurker, it was still LingBaneUltra and Maru got almost none widow mines to deal with it. Serral then just simply rolling in the banes and taking control of the map while trading out for PF. Maru cant do a thing about it because he was simply too dried out despite trading heavily favorite. At one points Maru was making 5-6 Vikings for no apparent reason, maybe hes expecting the switch to Broodlord? Just simply out-played and out-strategized on both games.
On June 09 2021 20:46 Xain0n wrote: Maru's turtling style simply is not working against Serral.
He get the wrong army composition by a mile, Serral was never on mass Lurker, it was still LingBaneUltra and Maru got almost none widow mines to deal with it. Serral then just simply rolling in the banes and taking control of the map while trading out for PF. Maru cant do a thing about it because he was simply too dried out despite trading heavily favorite. At one points Maru was making 5-6 Vikings for no apparent reason, maybe hes expecting the switch to Broodlord? Just simply out-played and out-strategized on both games.
There was an Ultra? Serral dominated him start to finish and gave him no time to brearth. Did Maru even kill a drone in this game?
Yeah Serral's ZvZ is so strangely bad, considering how much zvz practice he has ... Match history (bo3+) since January 2020: non zvz: 102 wins vs 14 losses (7 of which are to Clem only and 7 to EVERY OTHER NON-ZERG COMBINED) zvz: 33 wins vs 17 losses Kinda self-explanatory. Can't win championships with Rogue, Solar, Dark and Reynor around ...
The funny thing is that ZvZ was arguably Serral's best matchup from his ascension to Katowice 2020, he went 76-5 losing four series to Reynor. It's not a matter of practice, it looks like he's not at ease playing in a meta and on maps that favour styles so much different from the standard one he was so utterly dominating with.
well yes and no ... I mean its strange to me that a player of this caliber would have issues adapting to meta. However your point of him being strong in this particular match-up in long games excelling in scouting, defensive army positioning and multi-tasking is valid. We all remember in Montreal every zerg was trying to counter Serral by cutting some corners knowing his super-safe style of play. Today they either don't let him get there without huge disadvantage or "force" some weird all-in play which does not suit his playstyle, regardless of what Rotti says. Still. Not being able to adapt with all the practice vs top zergs is strange to me.
The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.
I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases. However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.
Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.
In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.
On June 10 2021 02:14 Starcloud wrote: The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.
I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases. However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.
Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.
In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.
I don't buy this "it's all in his thought process/mentality" explanation. You're overreading into the things he says. Serral does mix it up, and do his fair share of "stupid" builds. It's like when people claim that "Serral is bad against mutas". Not really, it's just that mutas are very strong in ZvZ when you don't get hardcountered and die while transitioning into them.
ZvZ's simply a tricky match-up that a lot of the European pros get a lot of practice in, and the symmetry of a mirror match-up makes the skill set needed for it somewhat different than the other match-ups. There doesn't need to be a deep explanation for why Serral's not as good at it than his other match-ups. Players frequently have a worst match-up.
On June 10 2021 02:14 Starcloud wrote: The next things are purely of Serrals ZvZ. In other matchups he is still a monster, maybe even best of the best. And by no means his ZvZ is not bad, its just not supreme like his other matchups.
I think that Serral is actually bit like Idra in one particular way; they both hate ALL builds that are not optimal or that are somehow "stupid" in their opinion. They like to play "perfect" and assume that their opponents do the same in most cases. However, at ZvZ that can be ignored if you want to surprise your opponent. All it takes is to miss one round of units and its all over, however "stupid" that may be. In the old meta, even scouting things bit late didnt mean a defeat for Serral. However now that is changed and it seems Serral has difficulties to catch up. In addition, I think he still plays too passively in ZvZ. In most maps that he wins, he takes the initiative.
Like flyingdrone said above, people do the weird, even "stupid" plays to get Serral off guard. Serral is exceptionally good at scouting, but he rarely does double check on things and that is what players use against him many times. Serral scouts early roach warren ? Then opponent just drones up quickly and gets far ahead. He scouts early lair ? In 40 seconds there is a ling/bane flood in his doorsteps.
In a stream recently Serral said that "well this map I scouted xxxx and he just did yyyyyy" for multiple times. But he never said even a single thing about how to counter those situations. He even added that "If I just scouted xxxx earlier, then its an easy win. That was just poor play". If he cant change that thought process, he can never catch up the top zergs.
I don't buy this "it's all in his thought process/mentality" explanation. You're overreading into the things he says. Serral does mix it up, and do his fair share of "stupid" builds. It's like when people claim that "Serral is bad against mutas". Not really, it's just that mutas are very strong in ZvZ when you don't get hardcountered and die while transitioning into them.
ZvZ's simply a tricky match-up that a lot of the European pros get a lot of practice in, and the symmetry of a mirror match-up makes the skill set needed for it somewhat different than the other match-ups. There doesn't need to be a deep explanation for why Serral's not as good at it than his other match-ups. Players frequently have a worst match-up.
It's not as easy as you are making it to be, too; Serral's ZvZ used to be at least on par, if not better, with his other matchups and it dropped quite abruptly and quite relevantly in 2020/2021. The question is why this change happened, historically Serral's ZvZ is not his weakest and not even a weak matchup by any standard.
On June 10 2021 19:48 sneakyfox wrote: Wait there has been a Maru vs Serral match and everyone wasn't going crazy about it?
It looks like NEXT is not widely followed by the users of this forum; also, I am pretty sure that there would have been many more comments if Maru won the match but it might be just me.
On June 10 2021 14:22 parksonsc wrote: Why are we talking too much about a player who couldn't manage top 4 Europe?
Ah, I have no clue; this noname must have massively improved in three days given he 2-0d both Maru and Zest.
On June 10 2021 19:48 sneakyfox wrote: Wait there has been a Maru vs Serral match and everyone wasn't going crazy about it?
It’s kinda hard to be super hyped about cross play matches though :| Especially if it’s not a super major tournament like IEM or the DH inter. The match itself was quite boring as well Edit: Serral is in the group so seems normal to talk about it, and he got eliminated from dreamhack because of ZvZ, he can play the other match-ups just fine
Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
On June 10 2021 21:08 sneakyfox wrote: Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
What I would be more interested in discussing is Maru's change in playstyle against Zergs. He used to be the super aggressive type, very much like Clem, but in the last year or so, he has completely changed into a very defensive playstyle.
Anyone can figure out why? Maps? Injury? Or does he really think that it's the most optimal way of playing against Zergs?
On June 10 2021 21:08 sneakyfox wrote: Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
What I would be more interested in discussing is Maru's change in playstyle against Zergs. He used to be the super aggressive type, very much like Clem, but in the last year or so, he has completely changed into a very defensive playstyle.
Anyone can figure out why? Maps? Injury? Or does he really think that it's the most optimal way of playing against Zergs?
I am not 100% sure but I think he only does that often in online play, so probably because of ping.
On June 10 2021 21:08 sneakyfox wrote: Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
What I would be more interested in discussing is Maru's change in playstyle against Zergs. He used to be the super aggressive type, very much like Clem, but in the last year or so, he has completely changed into a very defensive playstyle.
Anyone can figure out why? Maps? Injury? Or does he really think that it's the most optimal way of playing against Zergs?
I am not 100% sure but I think he only does that often in online play, so probably because of ping.
Maru actually does the same style in GSL as well, going turtle or proxy against Solar in the previous Code S. Since the end of last year, Maru has been alot passive with his TvZ playstyle, with moderate harrassment and then go full macro and turtle at home. Not sure why he is not mixing it up more aggressive build or even proxy in online tournament, or he thinking about saving them for the later round, knowing he would crush the TvP and move on anyway.
On June 10 2021 21:08 sneakyfox wrote: Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
What I would be more interested in discussing is Maru's change in playstyle against Zergs. He used to be the super aggressive type, very much like Clem, but in the last year or so, he has completely changed into a very defensive playstyle.
Anyone can figure out why? Maps? Injury? Or does he really think that it's the most optimal way of playing against Zergs?
I am not 100% sure but I think he only does that often in online play, so probably because of ping.
Maru actually does the same style in GSL as well, going turtle or proxy against Solar in the previous Code S. Since the end of last year, Maru has been alot passive with his TvZ playstyle, with moderate harrassment and then go full macro and turtle at home. Not sure why he is not mixing it up more aggressive build or even proxy in online tournament, or he thinking about saving them for the later round, knowing he would crush the TvP and move on anyway.
Yeah, that's why I find it strange. It seems to be such a departure from his previous style. Unless I'm mistaken and he has always been like this. It's like someone like Reynor suddenly stopped playing his aggressive ling style, and adopt Serral's full-blown defensive style (although Serral himself has changed his playstyle)
On June 10 2021 21:08 sneakyfox wrote: Mostly I'd say it's just that we already had a few matches between them and neither are at the top of their regions anymore. It would probably take a proper offline playoff match between them to reignite the hype.
What I would be more interested in discussing is Maru's change in playstyle against Zergs. He used to be the super aggressive type, very much like Clem, but in the last year or so, he has completely changed into a very defensive playstyle.
Anyone can figure out why? Maps? Injury? Or does he really think that it's the most optimal way of playing against Zergs?
I am not 100% sure but I think he only does that often in online play, so probably because of ping.
Maru actually does the same style in GSL as well, going turtle or proxy against Solar in the previous Code S. Since the end of last year, Maru has been alot passive with his TvZ playstyle, with moderate harrassment and then go full macro and turtle at home. Not sure why he is not mixing it up more aggressive build or even proxy in online tournament, or he thinking about saving them for the later round, knowing he would crush the TvP and move on anyway.
Yeah, that's why I find it strange. It seems to be such a departure from his previous style. Unless I'm mistaken and he has always been like this. It's like someone like Reynor suddenly stopped playing his aggressive ling style, and adopt Serral's full-blown defensive style (although Serral himself has changed his playstyle)
Maru has played a wide range of styles in the past though. Sure there's been times where he proxied every other game, or was all about drops, but there's also been times where he turtled quite heavily (for example when King's Cove was in the map pool, or when mass raven was good). I don't know what motivates these stylistic choices for Maru, but presumably he must think this lategame focused style of ZvT is a good style to play (and it is when he manages to get there).
His injuries could certainly play into this though.
On June 11 2021 13:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I don't know what motivates these stylistic choices for Maru, but presumably he must think this lategame focused style of ZvT is a good style to play (and it is when he manages to get there).
His injuries could certainly play into this though.
To be fair, Maru is the only one who can play this style against these top Zergs, with the exception of maybe Serral. He almost pulled it off against Reynor, but messed up in Games 3 onwards. Part of a style like this is probably also understanding how the other player plays, so it's not surprising that he doesn't do too well against someone like Serral. I think if he played a bit more with these top EU Zergs, he might start having better results. (It could also be why Rogue played that particular style against Maru, since Rogue knew what he would be going for).
But you're right that it could also be entirely down to his injury, although it seems like he is more or less gotten over it. His performances over the last few major tournaments have been great. He just fell a *tiny* bit short in the Semis. I think if he was in the finals, he would have won (both Katowice 2021, and GSL ST S1).
There were also a few games of Maru vs Serral in super late game split map where Serral just gave up eventually. Maybe that was his plan here. Rogue knows how dangerous Maru late game is, that's why he is roach busting 90% of the games
On June 14 2021 21:50 Harris1st wrote: So did Gabe just win vs Trap? There is so much SC2 going on right now I completely missed this :/
Yeah Gabe beat Trap quite convincingly with strong 2 base push. Protoss has been too greedy lately with getting early 3rd base and tech up into Storm, HM really shut that down.
Clem through 4:0 is not surprising. Gabe really bringing the fight to Trap kinda is. I thought even game 1 just now looked favored for Gabe but he got a bit out multitasked at the end.
Btw, just notice that Cure will be playing in Code A on Thursday, that means he cant finish the group stage until Friday. Also, on Monday, June 21, most KR players will have to be in the code S group nomination, meaning the playoff will have to start a day late as well.
I can't find tourney thread so I will comment here for the today match. What wrong with Reynor's ZvZ lately? It seemed like Reynor's ZvZ was not sharp as it used to be when he fought against Serral. Did Reynor just lose motivation after being defeated by Clem consecutively?
This is actually quite normal for Reynor. His form dip between premiere tournament, like how it was between Blizzcon 2019 and DH Global Summer last year. I am quite sure he will peak again for the coming DH event.
On June 18 2021 00:14 dysenterymd wrote: Looking at the bracket I think there's a pretty good chance of a Serral vs Maru finals, though something will probably ruin it.
most likely Trap, I think Trap can easily beat Serral
On June 18 2021 00:14 dysenterymd wrote: Looking at the bracket I think there's a pretty good chance of a Serral vs Maru finals, though something will probably ruin it.
most likely Trap, I think Trap can easily beat Serral
Trap form just dip again, I think. He was struggling against Elazer in the group stage. Maybe its a playstyle thing but I dont think Trap can beat Serral playing that way.
On June 18 2021 00:14 dysenterymd wrote: Looking at the bracket I think there's a pretty good chance of a Serral vs Maru finals, though something will probably ruin it.
most likely Trap, I think Trap can easily beat Serral
Depending on form, this can go 3:0 either way. Winner of Trap - Serral and winner of Clem - Maru will meet in the finals
On June 21 2021 22:02 VladSlymor wrote: Maru is such a beast - kudos to him! Tough couple of days for Clem, let's hope he can rest a bit and come back stronger for the season finals.
Where to watch Maru vs Clem? I missed that while watching the group nominations.
On June 21 2021 22:02 VladSlymor wrote: Maru is such a beast - kudos to him! Tough couple of days for Clem, let's hope he can rest a bit and come back stronger for the season finals.
Where to watch Maru vs Clem? I missed that while watching the group nominations.
the stream link is on the front page of this topic.
On June 21 2021 21:42 parksonsc wrote: Maru just comfortably demolished Clem in late game TvT and it did not look like 200 vs 200 supply at all. His late game raven play seems unplayable.
To give Clem an excuse, this was probably played around noon on Clem time, and he just spent 2hrs of intense fight with Dark last night on TSL. Anyway, nobody on EU really give a shit about KR player has to stay up to 3-4am to play in "global" tournament, so who give a crap about this.
Total domination by Maru against Clem. I was expecting more competitive match to be honest. Clem tried to put pressure in early stage of the game, but Maru's defense was impenetrable.
On June 18 2021 00:14 dysenterymd wrote: Looking at the bracket I think there's a pretty good chance of a Serral vs Maru finals, though something will probably ruin it.
most likely Trap, I think Trap can easily beat Serral
It wasnt even peak performance from Trap micro-wise, he didnt do any thing amazing with the harrassment. But Trap build was on point and Serral was afraid to move out until he finally saw the deathball Toss army that obliberate everything.
Serral might be slumping like other Korean pro players after period of dominance as he kept losing to Reynor, Clem and Trap now. These might hurt his confidence level for months or maybe a year long if not taken seriously.
On June 23 2021 00:00 swarminfestor wrote: Serral might be slumping like other Korean pro players after period of dominance as he kept losing to Reynor, Clem and Trap now. These might hurt his confidence level for months or maybe a year long if not taken seriously.
Serral is not at the top right now that's for sure but you need to consider that losing to Reynor (the best Z), Trap (the best P) and Clem (one of the best TvZ) is something that's nothing to be ashamed of.
On June 23 2021 00:00 swarminfestor wrote: Serral might be slumping like other Korean pro players after period of dominance as he kept losing to Reynor, Clem and Trap now. These might hurt his confidence level for months or maybe a year long if not taken seriously.
Serral is not at the top right now that's for sure but you need to consider that losing to Reynor (the best Z), Trap (the best P) and Clem (one of the best TvZ) is something that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Still, he's not the monster he used to be.
He did also lose to Lambo which is a bigger upset, but it's true that Serral has been losing matches that are not huge surprises at least. Meanwhile Clem losing to Lilbow is a bit more of a head-scratcher.
The ways in which Serral has lost are a bit concerning though--usually he tries to get a perfect read on his opponent and reacts appropriately. But some of his losses were a bit uncharacteristic, where he gets caught out overdroning or teching and so on. Those are the games where it especially feels like peak Serral wouldn't have lost them.
On June 23 2021 00:00 swarminfestor wrote: Serral might be slumping like other Korean pro players after period of dominance as he kept losing to Reynor, Clem and Trap now. These might hurt his confidence level for months or maybe a year long if not taken seriously.
Serral is not at the top right now that's for sure but you need to consider that losing to Reynor (the best Z), Trap (the best P) and Clem (one of the best TvZ) is something that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Still, he's not the monster he used to be.
Well, technically you can only lose 2 matches in most global tournaments to be out of it, and there will be nothing but "best of the world" player-type in those matches. So there is nothing for Serral to be ashamed of to lose and drop out a couple tournaments, its a concern at the very least to a guy who used to dominate the global scence just around 2 years ago. And I agree with the opinion that Serral has more things to worry about in EU scene with Clem and Reynor now that it might have affected his concentration and perfomance elsewhere. Like he has to practice and think how to get over those guys, that he doesnt spend as much time to prepare for the other upcoming opponent/matchup.
Maru wasting time not to harass Solar for long time until he discovered it was too late. I think mech armies can still harass with raven or widow mines while deceiving Solar's corruptors with incoming Bcs?
Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Just now I saw someone posted that Maru was practising using Protoss in the ladder. Could this affect his TvZ style?
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
I think this is the issue. His TvZ has been very weak since the disbanding of the Jin Air team.
While this may be super unlikely, I am also wondering if he is saving builds for the Season Finals next week.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Just now I saw someone posted that Maru was practising using Protoss in the ladder. Could this affect his TvZ style?
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
I heard from Lambo in one of the stream that Maru actually had to practice against some EU Zerg in preparation against Rogue in the previous GSL Finals. Dont know who that was, but obviously no Roach all-in pressure was being practiced. As for Maru recent TvZ style, it seems like everything are all over the place. Game 1 was a pressure push, game 3 was mech, game 4 was mass widow mines dropping. But Maru didnt execute any of the strategy well, seems like he just want to try something DIFFERENT rather than trying to do it BETTER. I would say just pick a style, stick with it and get better. Btw the Terran dynamic is kinda weird, because on one hand we have Clem who hope that Zerg would beat up all the other Toss and Terrans before he demolish them later. On the other hand, we have Maru who hope that other Toss and Terran would beat all the Zerg and he can win by beating them.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Just now I saw someone posted that Maru was practising using Protoss in the ladder. Could this affect his TvZ style?
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
I heard from Lambo in one of the stream that Maru actually had to practice against some EU Zerg in preparation against Rogue in the previous GSL Finals. Dont know who that was, but obviously no Roach all-in pressure was being practiced. As for Maru recent TvZ style, it seems like everything are all over the place. Game 1 was a pressure push, game 3 was mech, game 4 was mass widow mines dropping. But Maru didnt execute any of the strategy well, seems like he just want to try something DIFFERENT rather than trying to do it BETTER. I would say just pick a style, stick with it and get better. Btw the Terran dynamic is kinda weird, because on one hand we have Clem who hope that Zerg would beat up all the other Toss and Terrans before he demolish them later. On the other hand, we have Maru who hope that other Toss and Terran would beat all the Zerg and he can win by beating them.
DRG and Armani were the only left in Korean scenes. Since Solar just denied to Ro8 by Maru that time and Dark was in the same team with Rogue, I don't think they will offer themselves to be his screen partner. The rumour that Eu Zerg to be his practice partners could be true.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Just now I saw someone posted that Maru was practising using Protoss in the ladder. Could this affect his TvZ style?
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
Btw the Terran dynamic is kinda weird, because on one hand we have Clem who hope that Zerg would beat up all the other Toss and Terrans before he demolish them later. On the other hand, we have Maru who hope that other Toss and Terran would beat all the Zerg and he can win by beating them.
I feel like this is quite common actually. Top Terrans have often been good at different matchups and thus hoped to get completely different players in the draw.
On June 23 2021 21:16 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru losing to Solar should be a wake up call for him to rethink his TvZ playstyle and strategies. To be honest Marus TvZ has been looking quite week for a long time now, but still it was good enough to bop players on the level of Solar. Now it seems he is completely figured out.
Just now I saw someone posted that Maru was practising using Protoss in the ladder. Could this affect his TvZ style?
Maybe a lack of Zerg practice partner in team NV could lead to his weak TvZ playstyle currently. Maru was so good in TvZ last time because Rogue was in his the team before so that they can practise together.
I heard from Lambo in one of the stream that Maru actually had to practice against some EU Zerg in preparation against Rogue in the previous GSL Finals. Dont know who that was, but obviously no Roach all-in pressure was being practiced. As for Maru recent TvZ style, it seems like everything are all over the place. Game 1 was a pressure push, game 3 was mech, game 4 was mass widow mines dropping. But Maru didnt execute any of the strategy well, seems like he just want to try something DIFFERENT rather than trying to do it BETTER. I would say just pick a style, stick with it and get better. Btw the Terran dynamic is kinda weird, because on one hand we have Clem who hope that Zerg would beat up all the other Toss and Terrans before he demolish them later. On the other hand, we have Maru who hope that other Toss and Terran would beat all the Zerg and he can win by beating them.
Solar has a good record against Clem. Even only counting matches after Clem won his first DH EU.
I wouldn’t worry too much for Maru’s TvZ, and he can probably still practice with Rogue if it’s not to play against each other. He always had troubles versus Solar, even the bo3 he won 2-0 with the infamous nuke at IEM Katowice.
On June 24 2021 02:39 Poopi wrote: I wouldn’t worry too much for Maru’s TvZ, and he can probably still practice with Rogue if it’s not to play against each other. He always had troubles versus Solar, even the bo3 he won 2-0 with the infamous nuke at IEM Katowice.
Maru did pick Ragnarok in the GSL group selections, so he must be feeling generally good about his TvZ seems like Solar has really stepped it up lately
On June 24 2021 02:39 Poopi wrote: I wouldn’t worry too much for Maru’s TvZ, and he can probably still practice with Rogue if it’s not to play against each other. He always had troubles versus Solar, even the bo3 he won 2-0 with the infamous nuke at IEM Katowice.
Maru did pick Ragnarok in the GSL group selections, so he must be feeling generally good about his TvZ seems like Solar has really stepped it up lately
Solar has always been a very good player, I think he had beaten all of the top tier players like Rogue, Maru, Reynor, Clem, Serral and Trap a couple times within last year. He just need to string all that performance together in order to win premiere title. As for Maru TvZ, its certainly not bad, but comparing to his TvP and TvT is certainly a glaring weakness, which is head-scratching because TvZ used to be his best matchup.
On June 24 2021 13:29 parksonsc wrote: Dont forget he 3-0 Clem when Clem was already on the treak of beating Serral and Reynor.
Really? When did that happen?
Solar has always been an excellent player, but somehow he hits the ceiling of Ro8, and could not get past that in major tournaments.
I'm quite interested to see how Maru's TvZ will be like next week, particularly when he has a chance to play against Reynor. He did so well against Reynor in Katowice, but crashed and burned in the last 3 games.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vwN1gxl.png)
Dark advances
Zoun advances
TIME advances
MaxPax advances
Wardi
Easy
![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/167018772316684289/839843793574297601/Schermata_2021-05-06_alle_14.png)
MaxPax, 
