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On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice.
The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now.
His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals.
I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght.
His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won).
Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor.
Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence.
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On January 18 2021 08:23 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice. The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now. His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals. I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght. His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won). Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor. Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence.
Trap is the best in the world now that he’s 1-8 vs Serral after a narrow 4-3 victory?
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On January 18 2021 09:08 TentativePanda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 08:23 Xain0n wrote:On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice. The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now. His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals. I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght. His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won). Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor. Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence. Trap is the best in the world now that he’s 1-8 vs Serral after a narrow 4-3 victory?
How is Trap's career record against Serral relevant when we are speaking of his current shape?
I agree with Waxangel, we are in a new age of parity; if I had, however, to name a single player as the best in the world right now, I'd say Trap.
I already listed the reasons for my pick in the post you replied to.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 18 2021 09:08 TentativePanda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 08:23 Xain0n wrote:On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice. The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now. His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals. I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght. His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won). Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor. Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence. Trap is the best in the world now that he’s 1-8 vs Serral after a narrow 4-3 victory?
Yes. He’s been super consistent and rather underrated for some reason for over a year now.
If power ranks had been coming out I think he’d have been a lock for the top 10 for that span, and if one was to come out next week I can’t see another candidate for the top spot given his two wins recently, as well as the additional breaking of the Protoss title drought, staving off the pull into Kong status etc.
I don’t think we’ve had a real clear outstanding player clear of the field player over an extended period since 2018 Maru and Serral, and even then their achievements were subject to considerable debate because they happened in the same timespan.
Over the pretty recent past it’s got to be Trap, but I don’t think that makes him a real clear best in the world like we’ve seen in the past.
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I think any discussion regarding the best players should wait until after Katowice. I would assume that many players took a break and just started practicing again recently and some even confirmed this. So while I definitely see Trap to be among the big favorites in Katowice, i could see some power shift happening compared to the last few tournaments.
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Suddenly I just turned off twitch after the score became 3-1 thinking that Trap will not make comeback just like himself in previous DH tournaments.
Now, I just happened to know that Trap was winning. It seemed like Trap already had full confidence after winning its first tournament in several years and became a new killer from ex Jin air team after SoS, Maru, and Rogue, just like Rogue in 2017, winning championship over other tournaments consecutively in spans of not more than 3 months.
I will definitely watch the replay back.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 18 2021 10:40 Swisslink wrote:
I think any discussion regarding the best players should wait until after Katowice. I would assume that many players took a break and just started practicing again recently and some even confirmed this. So while I definitely see Trap to be among the big favorites in Katowice, i could see some power shift happening compared to the last few tournaments.
Absolutely, that said I just think Trap deserves more credit is all, he’s really improved his worst matchup and pushed through quite a few silvers and that mental block, from memory he’s either equalled or now holds singularly the record for successive Code S playoff placings etc.
Even as knowledgable a guy as Artosis would borderline masturbate in casts over how good Stats is and if it’s Trap he’s framed as some pretty decent Protoss.
It’s more against that backdrop I think Trap deserves kudos as the best player out there, at least for the last month.
As for Katowice yeah much is up in the air. I’m really hoping it’s not online, as much as I think we’ve still seen quality SC2 without offline tournaments, latency is clearly going to tip scales, especially in TvZ, in either direction.
My only nailed on prediction for Katowice is that Wombat’s Law will hold true. Given the tricky/build centric nature of the PvZ matchup a Protoss won’t win if they have to play more than one Zerg in the knockout phase.
Aside from innumerable other tournies we’ve seen if play out the last two Katowices, with Stats and Zest respectively.
No Protoss is good enough at PvZ to keep builds in their pocket vs Zerg in the Ro8 onwards, they’ll bring their best and if they win the next Zerg will counter them pretty hard.
Luckily for Trap and other Protoss players Terrans are much more competitive in tournaments these days, so having to PvZ your way to winning titles is less of a given.
PS I realise Trap had to beat two Zergs to win this tournament, but that’s an exception, by and large Wombat’s Law holds
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United States33559 Posts
On January 18 2021 08:23 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice. The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now. His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals. I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght. His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won). Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor. Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence.
I don't know if "best player in the world" carries so much weight right now.
Like, I'd still pick Serral as the highest percent chance to win any given event right now, but it's down to like, ionno, 20% chance to win a 16-man, where 2nd place might be 15%. The top players in the scene are really close, and in single elimination formats, the bracket draw has become SUPER important (and it was always really important).
Anyway this is a pretty exciting place for the scene to be in ahead of Katowice 
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On January 18 2021 11:38 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 10:40 Swisslink wrote:
I think any discussion regarding the best players should wait until after Katowice. I would assume that many players took a break and just started practicing again recently and some even confirmed this. So while I definitely see Trap to be among the big favorites in Katowice, i could see some power shift happening compared to the last few tournaments. Absolutely, that said I just think Trap deserves more credit is all, he’s really improved his worst matchup and pushed through quite a few silvers and that mental block, from memory he’s either equalled or now holds singularly the record for successive Code S playoff placings etc. Even as knowledgable a guy as Artosis would borderline masturbate in casts over how good Stats is and if it’s Trap he’s framed as some pretty decent Protoss. It’s more against that backdrop I think Trap deserves kudos as the best player out there, at least for the last month.
Yeah,imo Trap has been prettymuch the no 1 Protoss for almost 2 years now. He had amazing results in 2019 and 2020. And he s been insanely consistent both in Code Sand ans other tourney
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Woke up to hearing the finals were amazing, and boy it was a good series. Trap FINALLY takes down Serral in a finals of all places. Practically a reverse sweep too...
Congrats to him, GladPlane.jpg is smiling from the heavens
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Just got around to watching the finals (stupid work) and hot damn that was a series! Trap's void ray build looks hella strong against Zergs right now. Nice to see a Protoss finally taking the crown in a stacked tournament too. Also agree with Wax that nobody seems head and shoulders above the rest of the competition right now - props to whoever wins their liquibets lol.
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On January 18 2021 11:38 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2021 08:23 Xain0n wrote:On January 18 2021 06:34 irvnasty wrote:
Serral for over a year now seems to be in an odd rotation of strength. At any given moment, he seems like the world's best player in certain matchups, but vulnerable in others. For a time, he felt unbeatable other than by Reynor in ZvZ. Then, he lost series to Cure, Inno, ByuN, Clem, and Maru. Recently, he looks unbeatable in ZvT, but has also lost in ZvZ to Dark and Solar, and in ZvP to ShoWTimE and Trap.
It feels like he can train himself up to an unbeatable level in any matchup, but he can't maintain that level in a universal sense. Clearly one of the best players in the world under any circumstance. I would consider TY the world's best player, despite his having been roundly beaten by Serral this weekend, but Serral remains a certain favorite at Katowice. The results of the last two months seem to suggest that Trap is the best player in the world right now. His PvP is the best in the world(on par with Stats), his PvZ is by far the best in the world and his PvT is still top tier(might be the best in the world but what was his best matchup is the one that has progressed the least); he has also just won three titles, breaking a streak of six lost finals. I don't think that Serral has gone through an odd rotation of strenght. His ZvZ slowly went downhill after Katowice earlier this year because of the new maps and meta shifts and it has never rose to its 2018/2019 level; Serral's last series were especially bad but he was eliminated by Elazer from TSL 5 as early as May 2020(and lost earlier to him in the first HSC he won). Serral's ZvT has been generally strong this year, suffering from Terran being ahead following Cure's footsteps after KoB; he seems to have adjusted his compositions, differently from Reynor. Serral's ZvP has been great, he was literally unbeatable the whole year except for struggling with adepts timing in Katowice and the latest Skytoss resurgence. I don't know if "best player in the world" carries so much weight right now. Like, I'd still pick Serral as the highest percent chance to win any given event right now, but it's down to like, ionno, 20% chance to win a 16-man, where 2nd place might be 15%. The top players in the scene are really close, and in single elimination formats, the bracket draw has become SUPER important (and it was always really important). Anyway this is a pretty exciting place for the scene to be in ahead of Katowice
You mean bracket draw for the playoffs? Right now holding top spots is not really an advantage because it's six man round robin anyway in the Ro24. It's actually quite a pity that performing great throughout the year doesn't give more of an advantage IMO
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I just watched and enjoyed the matches.
I saluted to both Trap & Serral for delivering great performances.
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Protoss beat Zerg? New year, new era!
When is the last time Protoss won two back-to-back premiers? (counting also regionally - back-to-back GSL, DH, etc)
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Bisutopia19307 Posts
Trap's record versus Serral prior to the last patch should be thrown out. I honestly think all of Trap's results in LoTV prior to the last patch should just get a +1. That makes him a two time GSL champ and 1 time runner up in 2019.
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On January 19 2021 10:42 RKC wrote:
Protoss beat Zerg? New year, new era!
When is the last time Protoss won two back-to-back premiers? (counting also regionally - back-to-back GSL, DH, etc)
Not any time recently that's for sure. Doubtful we will ever see it again.
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EPT
