EPT
GSL Code S
Global StarCraft II League/2020/Season 3Streams & Casters
Format
- Playoffs:
- Single-elimination bracket.
- Quarterfinals are Bo5.
- Semifinals are Bo
Map Pool
Quarterfinals
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/575.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2627.jpg)
TY vs 
DRG![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/611.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
Stats vs INnoVationResults
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
[GSL 2020] Code S - Quarterfinals - Day 1
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51450 Posts
Map Pool TY vs DRG Stats vs INnoVationCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51450 Posts
Poll: TY vs DRG TY Wins (30) DRG Wins (17) 47 total votes Your vote: TY vs DRG | ||
|
umelbumel
2026 Posts
Stats 3:2 Inno | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
I think DRG takes it though. Hopefully Stats is now fully recovered after his stint at the hospital. | ||
|
dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Stats 3:2 | ||
|
AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
Stats 3:2 | ||
|
Slydie
1902 Posts
TY will have nightmares about mutas. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
I think if TY and DRG met in a weekender I’d favour the latter but given its GSL I think TY will have cooked up some good game plans, unfortunately for DRG. Think we have a tight series though. Think Stats is going to dispatch Inno quite handily just going off recent eye tests, but I wouldn’t fall out of my chair if Inno upset the form book. | ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
Stats 3 INnoVation 2 | ||
|
Whatson
United States5356 Posts
3-2 Stats, Inno's wins will be super close games, Stats' wins will be stomps. | ||
digmouse
China6327 Posts
| ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
S T A T S B O Y S | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
On October 14 2020 16:40 sneakyfox wrote: https://twitter.com/CodeSFacts/status/1316245369718820865 Think I missed this the first time https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/547937-code-s-ro16-preview-gumiho-parting-soo-dear?view=all amazing | ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
INnoVation 3 Stats 1 Especially looking forward to the first match. DRG fighting! | ||
|
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
INnoVation 0 Stats 3 | ||
|
Swisslink
2949 Posts
I could also see TY go for mech a bunch of times to make things a bit more complicated for DRG's Muta-ling-bane style. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 17:28 Edpayasugo wrote: Think I missed this the first time https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/547937-code-s-ro16-preview-gumiho-parting-soo-dear?view=all amazing Yes that was a life achievement right there  | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:31 sneakyfox wrote: Yes that was a life achievement right there I think someone else also shouted out a TL thread on GSL, in like 2014 or something, can't remember | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
Poopi
France12760 Posts
| ||
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
 | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:40 Elentos wrote: Old maps boo could this mean GSL staffs just freaked out about recent zerg performance and decided to use the old maps ?? ;OOo extreme bias right there | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
This time he basically made it look the same but went minedrop instead ;o could just be a chance happening but I like to pretend TY is doing the smartest thing possible  | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
| ||
|
Zerothegreat
United States787 Posts
| ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:45 Waxangel wrote: The last competitive TY deathaura game DRG could have VOD scouted, TY showed 2 hellions, hid hellions 3~6, and then did a surprise attack with 6 hellions followed by liberator. This time he basically made it look the same but went minedrop instead ;o could just be a chance happening but I like to pretend TY is doing the smartest thing possible More like: "oh cure beat serral and reynor using widow mines forever? okay lemme do that!" | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Oh he canceled the last round | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:51 Waxangel wrote: Missing bane speed and missing mines :0 but DRG doesnt go for ultra into lose ;o but lurker is not that strong when both race are on even economy almost an into lose unit | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:50 Poopi wrote: More like: "oh cure beat serral and reynor using widow mines forever? okay lemme do that!" Cure's mine drops did a lot of dmg against DRG when they played in the RO16 because DRG's response time was pretty bad (DRG won anyway because ????) We see what we want to see | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
| ||
|
NunedQ
Germany234 Posts
On October 14 2020 18:57 sneakyfox wrote: The misplaced CCs I was wondering if anyone else noticed that, that is actually reducing his income significantly... but right now he has a bank so its fine | ||
|
Zerothegreat
United States787 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
Zerothegreat
United States787 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:01 NunedQ wrote: I was wondering if anyone else noticed that, that is actually reducing his income significantly... but right now he has a bank so its fine He will mine out slower is the upside lol | ||
|
NunedQ
Germany234 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:03 Waxangel wrote: Should TY still be making so many tanks when Vipers are out? Feels like you're giving yourself such little margin for error on Ghost control. It's 2 vipers vs 17 tanks | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:03 NunedQ wrote: Where are your vipers DRG? Imagine if he didn't lose 2 to a random marine drop and 4 to missile turrets. | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
obv more money beats less money, but I imagine players would still like to play these situations out as best as theoretically possible (unless they're innovation) | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:05 royalroadweed wrote: How are those ghosts getting hit by the lurkers? Doesn't snipe out range lurkers? It's same range when the lurkers are upgraded | ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:04 Edpayasugo wrote: What is the orange health icon over the lurkers/hatch? Queen transfuse is a heal over time now (a small burst and then some health over time, to be exact) | ||
|
-KG-
Denmark1203 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:05 royalroadweed wrote: How are those ghosts getting hit by the lurkers? Doesn't snipe out range lurkers? Not when they're upgraded. Upgraded Lurkers have 10 range, Snipe has 10 range. | ||
|
t5Fab
181 Posts
| ||
|
gondolin
France332 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
If you have the insane eco to have a lot of orbitals, a lot of high gas units such as tanks and ghosts, lurkers become manageable, so the opening with a lot of widow mines allowed TY to get to this stage with a wonderful 93scv economy. Once he lost 40+ of those scvs to lurkers / runbyes it didn't matter that much because he had mined out a good chunk of gas / minerals already, and built enough orbitals to scan a lot (he didn't even use mules even at 50scv as shown in unit tab). He can beat DRG in this bo5 I think | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:06 Waxangel wrote: aight you got to try Lurker tricks, back to mashing Terrans with muta-ling-bane plz IMO he can't if he takes this much damage early on | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:06 Waxangel wrote: aight you got to try Lurker tricks, back to mashing Terrans with muta-ling-bane plz old man cant handle mass meme mine : ] | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:07 sneakyfox wrote: Fun game. Viper-lurker is just so strong. The ghosts were the MVPs in the end. Shoutout to the missile turret that killed 2 vipers mid-map. Then DRG pushed into 10 tanks and a planetary with no spellcasters. Fun times. | ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:04 Elentos wrote: Imagine if he didn't lose 2 to a random marine drop and 4 to missile turrets. How much could 2 Vipers cost? 20 dollars? | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:07 Elentos wrote: Shoutout to the missile turret that killed 2 vipers mid-map. Then DRG pushed into 10 tanks and a planetary with no spellcasters. Fun times. He just wanted to showcase the strength of vipers (through their absence) | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:09 BerserkSword wrote: did tasteless forget about emp lol Isn't it nearly impossible to EMP vipers when lurkers have the range upgrade? Unless the zerg fucks up? | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:10 deacon.frost wrote: Isn't it nearly impossible to EMP vipers when lurkers have the range upgrade? Unless the zerg fucks up? It's also really not that useful since Vipers can just Consume to get their energy back. EMP as a tool really only works in large decisive battles which there weren't really any in that game. Using Snipe to actually kill the Vipers is a stronger tool. | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:11 Vindicare605 wrote: It's also really not that useful since Vipers can just Consume to get their energy back. EMP as a tool really only works in large decisive battles which there weren't really any in that game. Using Snipe to actually kill the Vipers is a stronger tool. That's why its used mostly against them fungal thingies | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Dude's siege tank pushes are a thing of beauty to watch. | ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:13 Vindicare605 wrote: Jesus TY. Dude's siege tank pushes are a thing of beauty to watch. Imagine if he didn't unsiege the 2nd tank. | ||
|
Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
 | ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
| ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:14 Waxangel wrote: Bah, hydras He doesn't have the eco advantage to go muta/ling/bane, does he? | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:12 deacon.frost wrote: That's why its used mostly against them fungal thingies same case with ravens tho strong flying casters are so oppressive the lesson we leaned for sc3 is never ever make good flying casters unless you can bop it in 2 hits like bw | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:15 royalroadweed wrote: Proleage TY move there. He's so good at finding and exploiting little annoying map features. it's a well known spot IMO. At elast based on my lulz diamond games | ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:15 seemsgood wrote: same case with ravens tho strong flying casters are so oppressive the lesson we leaned for sc3 is never ever make good flying casters unless you can bop it in 2 hits like bw Need a scourge-like unit to counter them | ||
|
Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
TY: "yes" | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:17 royalroadweed wrote: Need a scourge-like unit to counter them Give banelings red bull | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:15 deacon.frost wrote: He doesn't have the eco advantage to go muta/ling/bane, does he? didn't stop him from mashing Cure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:17 Waxangel wrote: didn't stop him from mashing Cure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I believe against Cure he didn't get as much damage as from TY, but my memory is foggy at best. | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Does Zerg need an espresso machine? | ||
|
FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
you mean hot6 wing ?? On October 14 2020 19:17 Waxangel wrote: didn't stop him from mashing Cure ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ offline diukure is solid at best unless he has good maps so he can become "map" terran again ;Oo | ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
NunedQ
Germany234 Posts
| ||
|
Swisslink
2949 Posts
Now a Ling-Bane-Muta game please. That's where he usually shines. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
DRG 4-1 Cure in Code S RO16 OR Cure 3-0 Serral in King of Battles RO8 | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:05 Durnuu wrote: Queen transfuse is a heal over time now (a small burst and then some health over time, to be exact) Thanks, I have been left behind! | ||
|
Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:21 Waxangel wrote: What's the more inexplicable result? DRG 4-1 Cure in Code S RO16 Cure 3-0 Serral in King of Battles RO8 Curejwa | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
I would have used hot6 if I could have come up with something, but I have flying connected with the red bull, sorry Hot6, still love you for supporting the Code S. | ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:21 Waxangel wrote: What's the more inexplicable result? DRG 4-1 Cure in Code S RO16 Cure 3-0 Serral in King of Battles RO8 Cure 3-0 Serral. DRG was killing a bunch of strong terrans other than Cure for a while so it wasn't entirely unexpected. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:22 Elentos wrote: CC first, TY emptying the bag of builds cause he knows he's in the clear for TvZ after this series. Plus style points for making a proper W A L L build | ||
|
Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
| ||
|
rayl991
Afghanistan80 Posts
| ||
|
Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:23 Oukka wrote: Is this the map where we finally see mutas from DRG? Also this seems to go into the bizarro world already :D Roach time. | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
Swisslink
2949 Posts
| ||
|
Die4Ever
United States17595 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
NunedQ
Germany234 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
Zerothegreat
United States787 Posts
 | ||
|
rayl991
Afghanistan80 Posts
| ||
|
Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:27 Fuell wrote: I thought DRG had smashing ZvT.... He does have smashing Muta-Ling-Bane vs. Terran. Today he didn't show that. And the last game was just weird? I have no idea what he tried to achieve there. | ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
I'll need to go get food for INno - Stats far earlier than I thought :x | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:28 Swisslink wrote: He does have smashing Muta-Ling-Bane vs. Terran. Today he didn't show that. And the last game was just weird? I have no idea what he tried to achieve there. Pretty sure he was very tilted. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:28 Swisslink wrote: He does have smashing Muta-Ling-Bane vs. Terran. Today he didn't show that. And the last game was just weird? I have no idea what he tried to achieve there. If TY plays a normal build it's pretty hard to hold I'd say. | ||
|
WTCO
United States646 Posts
| ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:23 royalroadweed wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral. DRG was killing a bunch of strong terrans other than Cure for a while so it wasn't entirely unexpected. What if I add Armani 2-0 Cure to the mix | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
As always, tilt in TL seems to mean "whenever player loses a game". | ||
|
serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:31 Luolis wrote: As always, tilt in TL seems to mean "whenever player loses a game". He instantly left the game when his all-in didn't work. He was clearly demotivated imo. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:31 serendipitous wrote: He instantly left the game when his all-in didn't work. He was clearly demotivated imo. Well he was dead 100% | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:30 WTCO wrote: Armani the final Zerg hope, just as we all predicted. He'll just have to go through Zest, Maru/Trap and probably Stats to win it all. No pressure. sorry fam armani is still too young for political so dude doesnt know how to prevent zerg getting nerfed : ] | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:31 serendipitous wrote: He instantly left the game when his all-in didn't work. He was clearly demotivated imo. dude u sound pretty tilted | ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:31 Elentos wrote: That makes more sense. I was wondering if any proplayer would actually say something like that. What TY means by "Terran is better than Protoss" is that he'd rather play a Terran than a Protoss... | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:27 Elentos wrote: Just very unfortunate for DRG. He tried to do this blind but TY's build happened to blindly counter his ass. It was justice though, because TY played a more wall-y build | ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:34 sneakyfox wrote: It was justice though, because TY played a more wall-y build Imagine the scenes if DRG mines out his back minerals and tries to proxy the hatch where TY took his natural. | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:42 Charoisaur wrote: ah... old Disruptors that could be negated by stimming 1 marine forward well protoss players didnt know how to use disruptors properly back then tho ;Oo | ||
|
stilt
France2737 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:28 rayl991 wrote: No more strong zerg left, Stats may finally win this gsl Armani best mu has to be zvp tho | ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:44 seemsgood wrote: well protoss players didnt know how to use disruptors properly back then tho ;Oo actually terrans complained about 2017 disruptor even more than current one | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:46 darklycid wrote: actually terrans complained about 2017 disruptor even more than current one they were easier to use and more reliable but they didn't have as much potential to end the game with a single shot. Honestly I think reverting them was one of Blizzards worst decisions. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:47 Weavel wrote: inno has no confidence against stats Just Protoss in general actually. He left the ace match of GTC for KaiZi to TIME because he didn't feel confident vs Zoun. | ||
|
xelnaga_empire
621 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:47 Weavel wrote: inno has no confidence against stats Innovation has no confidence against Protoss. That's why Innovation backed out against Zoun in the Gold Series championship final. I don't blame Innovation. Ty said the same thing in his interview today; Ty doesn't want to play Protoss either. | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:51 xelnaga_empire wrote: Innovation has no confidence against Protoss. That's why Innovation backed out against Zoun in the Gold Series championship final. it could be bogus tho ;o we shall see | ||
|
stilt
France2737 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:47 Charoisaur wrote: they were easier to use and more reliable but they didn't have as much potential to end the game with a single shot. Honestly I think reverting them was one of Blizzards worst decisions. Wasn't the revert done for zvp in which they have a role nowadays ? | ||
|
DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:42 Charoisaur wrote: ah... old Disruptors that could be negated by stimming 1 marine forward Unless Protoss built more than one, in which case it became completely impossible to engage into them. | ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
xelnaga_empire
621 Posts
Except it's not. Ty also said he doesn't want to play Protoss in the initial interview today in GSL, before Ty's match started. | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
 | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
| ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:00 Waxangel wrote: Well, that was a game Was it | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:00 Waxangel wrote: Well, that was a game fucking awful ... | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:01 Charoisaur wrote: confused what went wrong for Stats there He took a really bad fight. | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 14 2020 19:52 stilt wrote: Wasn't the revert done for zvp in which they have a role nowadays ? possibly but I don't like their role in PvZ either | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
but he had almost no units... | ||
|
WTCO
United States646 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:01 Charoisaur wrote: confused what went wrong for Stats there Inno didn't lose his raven super early this time. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
Well he opened with 4-gate blink and did nothing with it. I think he could've held that if the fight wasnt terrible. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
He had some stuff across the map with the prism and he missed production cycles cause he got supply blocked at 117/117 and made 6 pylons | ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:04 Elentos wrote: He had some stuff across the map with the prism and he missed production cycles cause he got supply blocked at 117/117 and made 6 pylons Elazer level of supply management | ||
|
Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:02 Charoisaur wrote: possibly but I don't like their role in PvZ either While lings did kinda ruin old disruptors, I very much agree that the full revert was a mistake. The old ones were much nicer to actually use in PvT and PvP, and functioned more consistently I felt. The current dynamic of a millisecond on a snipe attempt regularly determining the winner of a battle is really meh IMO. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:07 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: While lings did kinda ruin old disruptors, I very much agree that the full revert was a mistake. The old ones were much nicer to actually use in PvT and PvP, and functioned more consistently I felt. The current dynamic of a millisecond on a snipe attempt regularly determining the winner of a battle is really meh IMO. Disruptor shouldnt exist at all. | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
| ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
| ||
|
Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
| ||
|
WTCO
United States646 Posts
| ||
|
fastr
France901 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:09 Waxangel wrote: This is also a game shhhhh bad kabigon ;ooo | ||
|
pvsnp
7676 Posts
| ||
|
t5Fab
181 Posts
maybe stats 3-2s from here, unlikely though | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
What on earth is going on? First DRG makes so many mistakes and Stats now plays even worse lol | ||
|
swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
| ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
| ||
|
pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:14 nojok wrote: Stop complaining guys, it's quarter finals and we are having series on par with GSL finals. We are complaining because the finals always have to be worse. | ||
|
rayl991
Afghanistan80 Posts
| ||
|
egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
| ||
|
pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:16 BerserkSword wrote: why is artosis questioning the only protoss player left who has won a non-NA premier tournament in the last 3-4 years Because the only protoss player left who has won a non-NA premier tournament in the last 3-4 years is down 0-2 in a Bo5. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
rayl991
Afghanistan80 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:16 BerserkSword wrote: why is artosis questioning the only protoss player left who has won a non-NA premier tournament in the last 3-4 years Because Stats is objectively and unquestionably playing poorly and making bad decisions? | ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
| ||
|
xelnaga_empire
621 Posts
| ||
|
ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:16 BerserkSword wrote: why is artosis questioning the only protoss player left who has won a non-NA premier tournament in the last 3-4 years Zest won the HSC right after the Rogue's Blizzcon so ... | ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:17 Elentos wrote: Because Stats is objectively and unquestionably playing poorly and making bad decisions? On October 14 2020 20:17 pvsnp wrote: Because the only protoss player left who has won a non-NA premier tournament in the last 3-4 years is down 0-2 in a Bo5. I mean with regards to questioning the gateway style stats chose. what does a diamond protoss player like artosis know that stats doesnt? especially against the greatest terran player of all time | ||
|
pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:20 BerserkSword wrote: I mean with regards to questioning the gateway style stats chose. what does a diamond protoss player like artosis know that stats doesnt? especially against the greatest terran player of all time He knows that it's losing Stats games. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:20 BerserkSword wrote: I mean with regards to questioning the gateway style stats chose. what does a diamond protoss player like artosis know that stats doesnt? especially against the greatest terran player of all time He is questioning - rightfully so in my opinion - why Stats discarded a style he's beaten TY, ByuN and Maru with in these first 2 games. On top of playing bad. | ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Quateras
Germany867 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Finally | ||
|
SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:28 Charoisaur wrote: Feels like terran can win TvP only with a tank push or if they drag it to the super lategame Haw do Terran win super lategame? Seems very P favoured to me. | ||
|
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:20 BerserkSword wrote: I mean with regards to questioning the gateway style stats chose. what does a diamond protoss player like artosis know that stats doesnt? especially against the greatest terran player of all time Artosis could pretty easily reach GM in SC2 if he isn't already | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:28 Charoisaur wrote: Feels like terran can win TvP only with a tank push or if they drag it to the super lategame bogus could ve won but one destruction reaver hit and dude was funeral ;oo | ||
|
xelnaga_empire
621 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:30 sneakyfox wrote: Haw do Terran win super lategame? Seems very P favoured to me. Yeah, I agree. Not sure Terran can do it. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:30 sneakyfox wrote: Haw do Terran win super lategame? Seems very P favoured to me. Might be possible on some maps. But I don't think it's very feasible on the GSL map pool having watched Maru build a million turrets against PartinG and still failing to take it. | ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:32 Elentos wrote: Might be possible on some maps. But I don't think it's very feasible on the GSL map pool having watched Maru build a million turrets against PartinG and still failing to take it. Tbf maru entered the super lategame at a massive disadvantage after the dt drop. | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:33 darklycid wrote: Tbf maru entered the super lategame at a massive disadvantage after the dt drop. He also plays the grossest most turtly style that nobody else even wants to touch so I don't think it's gonna happen regardless. On a map like Oxide it seems much more feasible (i. e. Trap-Maru in King of Battles) | ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
(or just straight up dying too) | ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:34 Elentos wrote: He also plays the grossest most turtly style that nobody else even wants to touch so I don't think it's gonna happen regardless. On a map like Oxide it seems much more feasible (i. e. Trap-Maru in King of Battles) I think the extreme turtle happened because of the dt drop, he was almost dead after that and saw this as the only option for a chance at the game i guess, normally he plays much more active into the super late where it doesn't look that bad. | ||
|
Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
| ||
|
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:36 Durnuu wrote: Well theoretically terran super lategame with mass BCs could probably beat anything protoss, the problem is getting there without protoss having 10 bases to your 4 (or just straight up dying too)Yeah but its exactly this, just theorycrafting. In reality I never saw a Terran get to mass BC against toss. On this level the toss just wont let you get there... | ||
|
SpaceBoar
52 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:31 xelnaga_empire wrote: Yeah, I agree. Not sure Terran can do it. unlike tvz i feel terran players use too much flesh for thier late game army perhap old back bone unit like liberators transition is still too rough despite da buff ? ;Oo | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
| ||
|
argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
| ||
|
rayl991
Afghanistan80 Posts
| ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:37 Luolis wrote: Why did Stats not veto Submarine? So that he could win it | ||
|
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:49 Elentos wrote: This game is so much higher level than the first 2 it's ridiculous I think Stats just thought he was gonna bop Inno and didn't need to use his actual builds. Trying to not show more of this strat to Maru and TY who he could still face later. | ||
|
t5Fab
181 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
| ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:51 Elentos wrote: The last time a Protoss player won Code S, Stats reverse swept Inno in the Ro8. Think about it. Don't give me hope | ||
|
Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:51 Elentos wrote: The last time a Protoss player won Code S, Stats reverse swept Inno in the Ro8. Think about it. yeah but TY wins this season so... | ||
|
nojok
France15845 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:51 t5Fab wrote: I feel like Disruptors should be reimagined, they really go against the tempo of the rest of the matchup Make them slower and add some really dumb AI to their projectile which could misfire and also make them pay minerals for each shot. | ||
|
RKC
2847 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
TY can't into Protoss | ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Durnuu
13319 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:51 Elentos wrote: The last time a Protoss player won Code S, Stats reverse swept Inno in the Ro8. Think about it. How can protoss win a code S if Zoun isn't in the Ro8 | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:30 Anc13nt wrote: Artosis could pretty easily reach GM in SC2 if he isn't already Not sure if it would be that easy but I wouldn't bet against it | ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:30 deacon.frost wrote: Stats giving Inno the match point to Inno start being sloppy and Stats winnign because he likes to play on the edge of elimination? I told you so! Edit> more seriously, Innovation needs a storage upgrade, his HDD is very slow, how is he not using SSD?! It appears his booting time is way too long. | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
| ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
| ||
|
Penev
28446 Posts
| ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
| ||
|
Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
STATSUUU!! | ||
|
Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
GG. Good to see he turned things back around. | ||
|
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:00 deacon.frost wrote: I told you so! Edit> more seriously, Innovation needs a storage upgrade, his HDD is very slow, how is he not using SSD?! It appears his booting time is way too long. but you gotta win tournament for muneh if you want to buy better hardwares ;OO such a tough paradox | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:03 Argonauta wrote: So it turns out Stats only wanted to give us 5 games. What a legend classic Stats tbh | ||
|
Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
| ||
|
SpaceBoar
52 Posts
| ||
|
Poopi
France12760 Posts
Hopefully Maru beats Trap | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:03 Weavel wrote: PROTOSS IS ALIVE Now the freezing water bucket! Protoss got the most 2nd places of all the races in the last 3 years in the premiere tournaments. So unless it's a PvP | ||
|
darklycid
3373 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:04 Poopi wrote: So fucking sad result. Hopefully Maru beats Trap Gimme dem tears :D Happy for Stats hopefuly he wins the season before he goes. | ||
|
argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:05 deacon.frost wrote: Now the freezing water bucket! Protoss got the most 2nd places of all the races in the last 3 years in the premiere tournaments. So unless it's a PvP The last Protoss Code S win had Inno reverse swept by Stats in Ro8 tho. This alignment has a 100% accuracy rate so far. | ||
|
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
| ||
|
dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On October 14 2020 05:03 dbRic1203 wrote: TY 3:0 Stats 3:2 YES :D | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:06 Elentos wrote: The last Protoss Code S win had Inno reverse swept by Stats in Ro8 tho. This alignment has a 100% accuracy rate so far. Aaaand you just jinxed it. Thanks, man! | ||
|
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
| ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
teamhouse OP even without coach park ;o | ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On October 14 2020 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: I think Stats just thought he was gonna bop Inno and didn't need to use his actual builds. Trying to not show more of this strat to Maru and TY who he could still face later. you were on point | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:07 seemsgood wrote: i dont know kev but for some fucking reasons i feel an JA player will take da trophy teamhouse OP even without coach park ;o Well, in case it's a PvP between Stats and Trap it will get interesting, because both are collectors of 2nd places | ||
|
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
| ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:07 deacon.frost wrote: Aaaand you just jinxed it. Thanks, man! Hey I got the bets right for today and I called the reverse sweep before it happened | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:08 Elentos wrote: Hey I got the bets right for today and I called the reverse sweep before it happened It works like the curse of Artosis. If you're right nobody cares and everybody forgets. If you're cursing the outcome, it's remembered! | ||
|
seemsgood
5527 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:08 deacon.frost wrote: Well, in case it's a PvP between Stats and Trap it will get interesting, because both are collectors of 2nd places zest best pvp tho dude could beat my boi and then get 4-0d against literally anyone in the final | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:09 seemsgood wrote: zest best pvp tho dude could beat my boi and then get 4-0d against literally anyone in the final Don't know how Zest would beat Trap or Maru. It would be a treat to see it, that's for sure | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:09 sneakyfox wrote: Wait are they really playing the grand finals on a Sunday and at 7 am CET? Unusual time slot for the GSL finals to be sure. | ||
|
Waxangel
United States33122 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:12 Elentos wrote: Unusual time slot for the GSL finals to be sure. Dodges the LoL world finals by one day | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:12 Elentos wrote: Unusual time slot for the GSL finals to be sure. That's what, 1 AM east coast, 10 PM west coast? 2 PM Seoul? | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Ah, some other esport is having a tournament this weekend. Doesn't explain the early start though. Catering to NA I guess. | ||
|
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:09 sneakyfox wrote: Wait are they really playing the grand finals on a Sunday and at 7 am CET? what's the problem? perfect quality morning coffee time! | ||
|
Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: what's the problem? perfect quality morning coffee time! better than regular Saturday GSL | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: what's the problem? perfect quality morning coffee time! Several hours earlier than morning coffee tbh | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:16 sneakyfox wrote: Ah, some other esport is having a tournament this weekend. Doesn't explain the early start though. Catering to NA I guess. Maybe catering to KR? Surely 14:00 KST is better than in the evening on a Sunday in Seoul. | ||
|
fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:21 sneakyfox wrote: Several hours earlier than morning coffee tbh Slacker! I'll send some morning delivery to your place to wake you up | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:24 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Slacker! I'll send some morning delivery to your place to wake you up Hold up people in Belgium get deliveries on a Sunday? | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2208 Posts
| ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:24 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Slacker! I'll send some morning delivery to your place to wake you up Let's be honest, it should be some late night delivery because it's more reasonable to stay up late than get up at that ungodly hour | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:56 Elentos wrote: Also TY won season 1, made top 4 in season 2 and now again at least top 4 in season 3. Very few players have had a year with GSL results that strong. soO, Maru, maybe Trap(if you take the year as 12 months and not as a callendar year jan-dec)... I wonder who else. Damn you! | ||
|
Zambrah
United States7157 Posts
| ||
|
digmouse
China6327 Posts
| ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:02 deacon.frost wrote: soO, Maru, maybe Trap(if you take the year as 12 months and not as a callendar year jan-dec)... I wonder who else. Damn you! Dark in 2019 too | ||
|
Elentos
55456 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:16 digmouse wrote: Sunday afternoon GSL finals actually were the norm for a long time, it's not unusual at all. The Sunday is one thing, but I think there hasn't been one scheduled for this exact time slot in LotV (I think almost every LotV GSL final started at 17:00 KST). So none for half the game's lifespan. So I would think it's ok to call it unusual. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
| ||
|
Cricketer12
United States13961 Posts
On October 15 2020 01:08 sneakyfox wrote: https://twitter.com/SC2Armani/status/1316368620289572866 damn, Freecs just swapped DRG for Curious big sad Were the TY DRG games any good, or just aggro stomps? | ||
|
Z3nith
485 Posts
On October 15 2020 01:30 Cricketer12 wrote: damn, Freecs just swapped DRG for Curious big sad Were the TY DRG games any good, or just aggro stomps? DRG probably needed to get back to Busan. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 15 2020 01:30 Cricketer12 wrote: damn, Freecs just swapped DRG for Curious big sad Were the TY DRG games any good, or just aggro stomps? They were a lot of good actually (g1 but also g2). And let's not speculate on why they brought Curious in there, that's a bannable offence on TLnet | ||
|
starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 15 2020 01:45 sneakyfox wrote: They were a lot of good actually (g1 but also g2). And let's not speculate on why they brought Curious in there, that's a bannable offence on TLnet I have no idea what you are trying to say here lol | ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland11951 Posts
| ||
|
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Fortunately he got his shit together and started used robo builds. | ||
|
RKC
2847 Posts
Matchup seems rather... uneven. And I'm saying this as a Protoss fan. | ||
|
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
PvT is kinda complicated. Protoss definitely is kinda favored in the mid/late, but only with 1 unit comp. And like Tastosis says, when they complete the puzzle by getting all the pieces (Colosus, disruptors, HT). But before that they are basically just surviving. And if they try something different (Inno vs stats game 1 and 2) it's difficult for the protoss (unless he is making an all-in). In the past Blizzard has buffed Terran mid to incentivize all-ins and timmings, but I've always hated that approach as all-ins are map dependant and people get better at defending them overtime. Crippling the protoss with mine drops and then a timming push with Raven + tank + MMM seems to be effective. I wish Blizzard would try strenghtening terran mid/late. I've been wondering if they could buff/change the cyclone. I think it would be a good counter of the disruptor, being so fast and having the lock-on ability, with a little buff. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 15 2020 14:38 [Phantom] wrote: I'm no expert, but I'm a random (macro) player and used to play Toss. PvT is kinda complicated. Protoss definitely is kinda favored in the mid/late, but only with 1 unit comp. And like Tastosis says, when they complete the puzzle by getting all the pieces (Colosus, disruptors, HT). But before that they are basically just surviving. And if they try something different (Inno vs stats game 1 and 2) it's difficult for the protoss (unless he is making an all-in). In the past Blizzard has buffed Terran mid to incentivize all-ins and timmings, but I've always hated that approach as all-ins are map dependant and people get better at defending them overtime. Crippling the protoss with mine drops and then a timming push with Raven + tank + MMM seems to be effective. I wish Blizzard would try strenghtening terran mid/late. I've been wondering if they could buff/change the cyclone. I think it would be a good counter of the disruptor, being so fast and having the lock-on ability, with a little buff. The cyclone seems like a terrible fit as a dedicated counter to the disruptor. For one people either build one of them for early game defense or mass them to go battle mech--they're not something you build a few of to round out a composition. Additionally they get one-shotted by disruptors, are only as fast as a stimmed marauder, scale poorly and can't really ever get close enough to a disruptor to lock on and escape in a late game scenario. Blizzard would have to completely redesign the cyclone (yet again) for it be to anywhere near a viable counter. | ||
|
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On October 15 2020 07:28 starkiller123 wrote: I have no idea what you are trying to say here lol My bad, I got Curious and Creator mixed up lol | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 15 2020 14:38 [Phantom] wrote: I'm no expert, but I'm a random (macro) player and used to play Toss. PvT is kinda complicated. Protoss definitely is kinda favored in the mid/late, but only with 1 unit comp. And like Tastosis says, when they complete the puzzle by getting all the pieces (Colosus, disruptors, HT). But before that they are basically just surviving. And if they try something different (Inno vs stats game 1 and 2) it's difficult for the protoss (unless he is making an all-in). In the past Blizzard has buffed Terran mid to incentivize all-ins and timmings, but I've always hated that approach as all-ins are map dependant and people get better at defending them overtime. Crippling the protoss with mine drops and then a timming push with Raven + tank + MMM seems to be effective. I wish Blizzard would try strenghtening terran mid/late. I've been wondering if they could buff/change the cyclone. I think it would be a good counter of the disruptor, being so fast and having the lock-on ability, with a little buff. As per your previous comment on the second Stats/Inno game, you thought Artosis was mad? I’ve taken to watching both first person streams + the commentary. Stats was actually playing pretty damn well and was finding consistent angles of attack with his pokes and retention of units, despite Inno having a really solid defensive position. He defended the mine drops really well, did some nifty work with a prism and two archons, then totally, totally botched forcefielding his ramp to delay for storms! The comparatively easy part. Well not so much mad as totally mystified. I’m not sure what to do when it gets to late game. There’s just so much going on that it gets very difficult for Terrans to split their armies correctly, defend their territory and be out on the map in an aggressive capacity too. Protoss have across the board got better at the matchup, I’m interested to see what Maru can do against Trap as he’s shown some interesting approaches to lategame lately. Between expanding and teching behind stalkers, figuring out reliable defences to the Raven disable/tank pushes that were deadly for a bit, and using more lategame blink DTS when they actually get to lategame Protoss players have developed an approach to the matchup that is better than what they used to do. The question is to Terran have the tools to develop counter approaches given some time, or do they lack said tools? Always the tricky balance of balance, giving things time to develop vs maybe those things aren’t possible or too difficult to develop. One thing I’d been theorycrafting is giving Disruptors energy that’s equal to their attack cooldown. They’d spawn with full energy of course. This would open up occasional avenues where a Terran can catch a Protoss player and actually pounce and capitalise on EMPs. Neither would it overly cripple a Toss player, your EMPed disruptors would have energy for another shot equal to the cooldown as if they’d just fired, so the window would be short. I’m unsure, thought I’d canvass opinion. There were times in the 3rd set of Stats/Inno where Inno outmanouvered Stats and got off money EMPs, but couldn’t push into Stats because the Disruptor threat was too high. That feels a bit off to me. I’m ok it being very hard to engage into if you’re really in position well, if you do get caught out the option to punish should be there (unsieged tanks being a case in point) I went with my terrible theory craft solution in its current form so that Templars can’t nuke disruptors out of PvP. Other potential issues it would bring up would be being able to physically see which disruptors had a shot available or not from their mana bar. Would that information help opponents just enough or would it be giving them too much info? I’m unsure there. WC3 is a game all about spell casting and it would be borderline impossible to keep track of cooldowns and mana with your internal clock, SC2 isn’t such a game although casters are very important. | ||
|
RKC
2847 Posts
True, siege tanks and lurkers have zoning abilities too. But they need to siege and borrow, hence less mobile and can be outmaneuvered more easily. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 15 2020 18:52 RKC wrote: Aside from dealing damage, the disruptors' strength lies in their zoning ability. They can protect bases at narrow chokes with a few tanking units whilst being greatly outnumbered. True, siege tanks and lurkers have zoning abilities too. But they need to siege and borrow, hence less mobile and can be outmaneuvered more easily. They can, I like them in that role. They’re also pretty unique in terms of the zoning units in the game in that their zoning attack has to be manually triggered and controlled. As per my previous (probably terrible) balance tweaks they’re also unique among other zoning units in they get more and more dangerous as you close in on them. Which is only really a problem for Terrans. Zergs have vipers where you’re pulling them in to you and Protoss have aggressive blinks that instantly close distance. Terrans have to pounce on units they have a tricky time splitting against at close to the maximum range that disruptors shoot out, while having things like Chargelots or Collosus to deal in engagements with when we’re hitting late game. That combination of factors makes it really, really difficult to engage properly. We don’t see top Terrans have this issue when the game and composition ends up in gateway armies + panic disruptors hoping for miracle hits, that’s manageable. If Terran could nail EMPs to temporarily disable disruptors equivalent to their attack cooldown that would give a short window where they could pounce, or at least trade effectively against the robo units. | ||
|
Slydie
1902 Posts
| ||
|
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
The disruptor has a shorter range than the siege tank. The "zoning" factor of the disruptor is useful sometimes, but in reality sucks compared to Lurkers/tanks/libs. You get 1 shot where you zone out enemy units for the 2 seconds the nova last, then your unit is completely useless for 21 seconds of cooldown, and due to it's medium range is easy to snipe (which is good, as it allows counterplay). And so the answer to that is having more disruptors, which can definitely buy you some time, but if you're just zoning out units you're going to lose because 21 second cooldown is very long, and you might have "zoned out" some units but eventually you run out of novas and then you have 20 supply of useless units that can't atack. And as we know without AoE a Protoss army just dies. It's not that easy to actually hit shots with disruptors. MM can split or outrun the nova if they stim on time, and like I explained above, if you're not killing units with the disruptors you're losing the game. To make up for this the disruptor shots are very strong so if they hit you they do tons of damage. The only change that maybe could work would be reducing significantly the disruptors damage, but also reducing the cooldown and making the nova faster so it's more consistent, but I don't know if that would be good. On October 15 2020 15:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The cyclone seems like a terrible fit as a dedicated counter to the disruptor. For one people either build one of them for early game defense or mass them to go battle mech--they're not something you build a few of to round out a composition. Additionally they get one-shotted by disruptors, are only as fast as a stimmed marauder, scale poorly and can't really ever get close enough to a disruptor to lock on and escape in a late game scenario. Blizzard would have to completely redesign the cyclone (yet again) for it be to anywhere near a viable counter. Yeah I agree right now they don't work, that's why I said they would need to buff it. Maybe change a little how the lock-on works/targets. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/olZIkR2.jpg) This would probably never happen, but I think a good buff for terran would be to have those flamethrower turrets they have in the campaign, as an upgrade for the CC. It could be researched on the engineering bay/armory. It would need to be a lategame upgrade, maybe require nuclear reactor? and now CC could cast those flamethrowers in exchange of energy. This would help Terrans agaisnt zealots/blink DTs, but they would also need to be careful managing scans, mules and the turrets. This would indirectly buff the terran army as they wouldn't need to leave as many units in their base, and by buffing their economy their unit output would also be buffed, which could help the lategame. | ||
|
Slydie
1902 Posts
I wouldn't touch the disruptor. I know it is frustrating to lost 10 supply of units instantly but you need to see the other side. The disruptor has a shorter range than the siege tank. The "zoning" factor of the disruptor is useful sometimes, but in reality sucks compared to Lurkers/tanks/libs. You get 1 shot where you zone out enemy units for the 2 seconds the nova last, then your unit is completely useless for 21 seconds of cooldown, and due to it's medium range is easy to snipe (which is good, as it allows counterplay). And so the answer to that is having more disruptors, which can definitely buy you some time, but if you're just zoning out units you're going to lose because 21 second cooldown is very long, and you might have "zoned out" some units but eventually you run out of novas and then you have 20 supply of useless units that can't atack. And as we know without AoE a Protoss army just dies. It's not that easy to actually hit shots with disruptors. MM can split or outrun the nova if they stim on time, and like I explained above, if you're not killing units with the disruptors you're losing the game. To make up for this the disruptor shots are very strong so if they hit you they do tons of damage. The only change that maybe could work would be reducing significantly the disruptors damage, but also reducing the cooldown and making the nova faster so it's more consistent, but I don't know if that would be good. Disruptors in small numbers or as a part of a small army is not an issue. When 5+ disruptors are out with chargelots and blink stalkers, ground battles in both PvP and PvT just become silly imo. Lurkers, siege tanks and liberators are better at zoning, but the mobility makes disruptors a much more frustrating unit to play against. Nerfing the movement speed can be one option to increase the skill cap. Have you noticed how storm is almost absent except PvZ now? Disruptors do more damage instantly, and have just taken over that role, which is a bit sad to see imo. P did not really need another aoe option. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 16 2020 06:13 Slydie wrote: Disruptors in small numbers or as a part of a small army is not an issue. When 5+ disruptors are out with chargelots and blink stalkers, ground battles in both PvP and PvT just become silly imo. Lurkers, siege tanks and liberators are better at zoning, but the mobility makes disruptors a much more frustrating unit to play against. Nerfing the movement speed can be one option to increase the skill cap. Have you noticed how storm is almost absent except PvZ now? Disruptors do more damage instantly, and have just taken over that role, which is a bit sad to see imo. P did not really need another aoe option. I’m a bit torn, Protoss are so reliant on AoE and I never liked the dance of hard counters in PvT with ghosts/Vikings vs Temps/Collosi. Having a third option that is less fitting to that dynamic and is hard as fuck to use optimally (especially at the absolute top level), and is less hard counterable as the aforementioned, but can be mitigated by micro unlike the Collosus, I like many aspects of the disruptors personally. As an isolated unit that is. Problems really emerge compositionally when you get the unholy trifecta of Protoss AoE in the same ball. Possibly with Dark Templars wandering around and teleporting with gleeful abandon elsewhere. How in the name of holy Zeus do you engage into that? I’ve taken to watching both FPVs in GSL with the commentary, glorious way to watch SC although also the commentary lags behind a bit. Anyway with that in mind Inno actually played his first match point set against Stats really quite well if you’re looking at what he can see and sensibly account for, vs what we gleam from the observer UI, at least to my eye. Even with good army movement and splitting, some money EMPs the one thing he was never able to do was pounce on Stats force and really reset the robo unit count right down. Eventually in such a standoff it gets harder and harder to plug the holes that Protoss’ mobility and ability to pump money into harass squads as their base count increases. Watching that game I proposed my making novas cost energy/equivalent to their current cooldown suggestion that Blizz will definitely implement :p Disruptors are pretty big too so carpet EMPs wouldn’t be too oppressive, I don’t think. But some cunning Terran positioning or Protoss sloppiness and it might open windows. | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 16 2020 01:21 [Phantom] wrote: I wouldn't touch the disruptor. I know it is frustrating to lost 10 supply of units instantly but you need to see the other side. The disruptor has a shorter range than the siege tank. The "zoning" factor of the disruptor is useful sometimes, but in reality sucks compared to Lurkers/tanks/libs. You get 1 shot where you zone out enemy units for the 2 seconds the nova last, then your unit is completely useless for 21 seconds of cooldown, and due to it's medium range is easy to snipe (which is good, as it allows counterplay). And so the answer to that is having more disruptors, which can definitely buy you some time, but if you're just zoning out units you're going to lose because 21 second cooldown is very long, and you might have "zoned out" some units but eventually you run out of novas and then you have 20 supply of useless units that can't atack. And as we know without AoE a Protoss army just dies. It's not that easy to actually hit shots with disruptors. MM can split or outrun the nova if they stim on time, and like I explained above, if you're not killing units with the disruptors you're losing the game. To make up for this the disruptor shots are very strong so if they hit you they do tons of damage. The only change that maybe could work would be reducing significantly the disruptors damage, but also reducing the cooldown and making the nova faster so it's more consistent, but I don't know if that would be good. Yeah I agree right now they don't work, that's why I said they would need to buff it. Maybe change a little how the lock-on works/targets. This would probably never happen, but I think a good buff for terran would be to have those flamethrower turrets they have in the campaign, as an upgrade for the CC. It could be researched on the engineering bay/armory. It would need to be a lategame upgrade, maybe require nuclear reactor? and now CC could cast those flamethrowers in exchange of energy. This would help Terrans agaisnt zealots/blink DTs, but they would also need to be careful managing scans, mules and the turrets. This would indirectly buff the terran army as they wouldn't need to leave as many units in their base, and by buffing their economy their unit output would also be buffed, which could help the lategame. Let's just the upgrade let the PFs to build units inside. Like - say - you have 12 slots in PF and you can build a helbat(4 slots), marine(1 slot) or ghost(2 slots). These units cannot exit the PF but at the same time don't cost any supply. You can play with the numbers/slots, just examples. This way Terran can reinforce PF with a blue flame, EMP and anti-air, all at once if one wants to. When the PF is destroyed, units are burried under the debris and a short term gravestone can be shown(imagine the Worms death place ) | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 16 2020 08:15 deacon.frost wrote: Let's just the upgrade let the PFs to build units inside. Like - say - you have 12 slots in PF and you can build a helbat(4 slots), marine(1 slot) or ghost(2 slots). These units cannot exit the PF but at the same time don't cost any supply. You can play with the numbers/slots, just examples. This way Terran can reinforce PF with a blue flame, EMP and anti-air, all at once if one wants to. When the PF is destroyed, units are burried under the debris and a short term gravestone can be shown(imagine the Worms death place )I was going to disagree until the gravestone touch. I’m ok to leave Terran base defence for a while though. Optimisation is needed dagnabbit! All 3 races but especially Terran have got better with building placement over the game’s strategic development, be it basic base layout, supply walls covering things, rallying to a single lowered depot to plug runby gaps etc. We see staggered depot placement to mess with chargelots too. What we don’t see, and what I think is totally doable is walling your outlying CCs/PFs with depots. | ||
|
Slydie
1902 Posts
What we don’t see, and what I think is totally doable is walling your outlying CCs/PFs with depots. Doable, yes, but I think there are some very good reasons why extra CCs are the late game Terran mineral sink rather than PF depot walls. | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 16 2020 13:45 Slydie wrote: Doable, yes, but I think there are some very good reasons why extra CCs are the late game Terran mineral sink rather than PF depot walls. MOstly because you still need half of the PF without the wall or with lowered depos, DTs blink on it and you won't be able to get it up nor repair, thus you'll be forced to lowerthe wall anyway | ||
|
Supah
708 Posts
Maybe make them do less damage to Mech units, so you can dance around the Orbs, but it will take an inefficient amount of Disruptors to punish siege tanks. What is it now, 2 Orbs? Make it 4 or 5. Tanks surviving and Window Mines taking 2 hits would allow Terran some room against the mobility of a Toss army. Can Ravens stop their ability once casted? | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 16 2020 16:42 Supah wrote: Whatever the answer is, it CANNOT be just make Ghost counter more Protoss units. I'm actually a little bit impressed that that's the floated conclusion. Maybe make them do less damage to Mech units, so you can dance around the Orbs, but it will take an inefficient amount of Disruptors to punish siege tanks. What is it now, 3 Orbs? Make it 4 or 5. Tanks surviving and Window Mines taking 2 hits would allow Terran some room against the mobility of a Toss army. Can Ravens stop their ability once casted? At that stage ravens will get a feedback before they reach the range, probably. As it usually goes colossi, templar, boom balls. | ||
|
Russano
United States425 Posts
I think Disruptors are fine, balance wise, but they are tremendously unfun on both sides of the equation, and a huge pain in the ass to deal with if you aren't good. I would be happy for them to removed entirely and replaced with something else.. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 16 2020 13:45 Slydie wrote: Doable, yes, but I think there are some very good reasons why extra CCs are the late game Terran mineral sink rather than PF depot walls. Mules are a pretty good unit after all. @Deacon yeah, even a half ‘moat’ leaving the mining zone free and you cut off half the surface area. Load some SCVs into the building and body block it. Their sacrifice will be remembered. I dunno, you’re not going to be able to protect every base, what you could do is sim city in such a way to buy time to pull units without having to give up promising positions. A little extra time to assess the situation properly etc. As I said Terrans have got very good at making sim cities in other locations to mess with things like charge and make it a nightmare to attack in. DTs blinking won’t be able to one shot, Zealots, Lings babes and ultras will have to chew through a shell to get to the juicy innards. One clear downside of reducing available surface area like this is it makes mass repairs less effective though, which is perhaps a reason players don’t do this. It’s quite a situational thing. Looking how games go when the base count increases Terran really is susceptible to runbys with cheap melee units. When say bases 4-6 are going up they can end up with their main army covering the access zone to quite a lot of their territory, with one base generally being too hard to cover. Say if you have bases at 2 and 8 o clock or something. Shame I suck at the game or I’d test this idea haha. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 16 2020 18:51 Russano wrote: Or you can just be Clem and charge into 10 disruptors and kill all of them, while dodging the balls so well that you only lose 6 units making them look like the worst unit in the game. I think Disruptors are fine, balance wise, but they are tremendously unfun on both sides of the equation, and a huge pain in the ass to deal with if you aren't good. I would be happy for them to removed entirely and replaced with something else.. Clem’s pretty good. Or Maru killing Collosus armies without Vikings. The problem is when a Protoss has both, maybe with Templar too in a maxed army. You’re having to kite back from Chargelots and Archons but you want to close the distance on the AoE units, all the while eating Collosus lasers. | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 16 2020 19:23 WombaT wrote: Mules are a pretty good unit after all. @Deacon yeah, even a half ‘moat’ leaving the mining zone free and you cut off half the surface area. Load some SCVs into the building and body block it. Their sacrifice will be remembered. I dunno, you’re not going to be able to protect every base, what you could do is sim city in such a way to buy time to pull units without having to give up promising positions. A little extra time to assess the situation properly etc. As I said Terrans have got very good at making sim cities in other locations to mess with things like charge and make it a nightmare to attack in. DTs blinking won’t be able to one shot, Zealots, Lings babes and ultras will have to chew through a shell to get to the juicy innards. One clear downside of reducing available surface area like this is it makes mass repairs less effective though, which is perhaps a reason players don’t do this. It’s quite a situational thing. Looking how games go when the base count increases Terran really is susceptible to runbys with cheap melee units. When say bases 4-6 are going up they can end up with their main army covering the access zone to quite a lot of their territory, with one base generally being too hard to cover. Say if you have bases at 2 and 8 o clock or something. Shame I suck at the game or I’d test this idea haha. From my view the issue is how fast and strong blink DTs are. Sure, it's a HUGE investment, but imagine 10 cloaked ghosts nuking instantly, that would be similarily wrong. I have no proper solution to this, I just think it's wrong edit> if they use chargelots/cracklings, some units will die and it's not this fast, at least against a PF. Also you can see them closing in on the minimap and/or the scan tower. This isn't happening with the blink DTs who kill things much faster. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland24125 Posts
On October 16 2020 20:17 deacon.frost wrote: From my view the issue is how fast and strong blink DTs are. Sure, it's a HUGE investment, but imagine 10 cloaked ghosts nuking instantly, that would be similarily wrong. I have no proper solution to this, I just think it's wrong edit> if they use chargelots/cracklings, some units will die and it's not this fast, at least against a PF. Also you can see them closing in on the minimap and/or the scan tower. This isn't happening with the blink DTs who kill things much faster. I personally don’t like that use. Almost impossible to defend unless you use the patented WombaT method. I’m not sure how you tweak it. It feels the intent of that upgrade is to increase DT survivability, not to jump and nuke things. A small cooldown after using it where the DTs can’t attack might give the opportunity to get units over. But that aside I can’t think of much. Depends how the meta shifts. If DTs blinking is only used to snipe things, then alternatively decloak them after a blink for a period. Which I don’t like as a proposal because it kind of eliminates the use of blink in retaining your DTs. | ||
|
Supah
708 Posts
| ||
| ||
