[GSL 2020] Code S - Quarterfinals - Day 1 - Page 18

On October 15 2020 01:30 Cricketer12 wrote:

damn, Freecs just swapped DRG for Curious big sad

Were the TY DRG games any good, or just aggro stomps?

On October 15 2020 14:38 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm no expert, but I'm a random (macro) player and used to play Toss.

PvT is kinda complicated. Protoss definitely is kinda favored in the mid/late, but only with 1 unit comp. And like Tastosis says, when they complete the puzzle by getting all the pieces (Colosus, disruptors, HT). But before that they are basically just surviving. And if they try something different (Inno vs stats game 1 and 2) it's difficult for the protoss (unless he is making an all-in).

In the past Blizzard has buffed Terran mid to incentivize all-ins and timmings, but I've always hated that approach as all-ins are map dependant and people get better at defending them overtime.

Crippling the protoss with mine drops and then a timming push with Raven + tank + MMM seems to be effective.

I wish Blizzard would try strenghtening terran mid/late. I've been wondering if they could buff/change the cyclone. I think it would be a good counter of the disruptor, being so fast and having the lock-on ability, with a little buff.

On October 15 2020 14:38 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm no expert, but I'm a random (macro) player and used to play Toss.

PvT is kinda complicated. Protoss definitely is kinda favored in the mid/late, but only with 1 unit comp. And like Tastosis says, when they complete the puzzle by getting all the pieces (Colosus, disruptors, HT). But before that they are basically just surviving. And if they try something different (Inno vs stats game 1 and 2) it's difficult for the protoss (unless he is making an all-in).

In the past Blizzard has buffed Terran mid to incentivize all-ins and timmings, but I've always hated that approach as all-ins are map dependant and people get better at defending them overtime.

Crippling the protoss with mine drops and then a timming push with Raven + tank + MMM seems to be effective.

I wish Blizzard would try strenghtening terran mid/late. I've been wondering if they could buff/change the cyclone. I think it would be a good counter of the disruptor, being so fast and having the lock-on ability, with a little buff.

On October 15 2020 18:52 RKC wrote:
Aside from dealing damage, the disruptors' strength lies in their zoning ability. They can protect bases at narrow chokes with a few tanking units whilst being greatly outnumbered.

True, siege tanks and lurkers have zoning abilities too. But they need to siege and borrow, hence less mobile and can be outmaneuvered more easily.

On October 15 2020 15:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:

The cyclone seems like a terrible fit as a dedicated counter to the disruptor. For one people either build one of them for early game defense or mass them to go battle mech--they're not something you build a few of to round out a composition. Additionally they get one-shotted by disruptors, are only as fast as a stimmed marauder, scale poorly and can't really ever get close enough to a disruptor to lock on and escape in a late game scenario. Blizzard would have to completely redesign the cyclone (yet again) for it be to anywhere near a viable counter.

I wouldn't touch the disruptor. I know it is frustrating to lost 10 supply of units instantly but you need to see the other side.

The disruptor has a shorter range than the siege tank. The "zoning" factor of the disruptor is useful sometimes, but in reality sucks compared to Lurkers/tanks/libs. You get 1 shot where you zone out enemy units for the 2 seconds the nova last, then your unit is completely useless for 21 seconds of cooldown, and due to it's medium range is easy to snipe (which is good, as it allows counterplay). And so the answer to that is having more disruptors, which can definitely buy you some time, but if you're just zoning out units you're going to lose because 21 second cooldown is very long, and you might have "zoned out" some units but eventually you run out of novas and then you have 20 supply of useless units that can't atack. And as we know without AoE a Protoss army just dies.


It's not that easy to actually hit shots with disruptors. MM can split or outrun the nova if they stim on time, and like I explained above, if you're not killing units with the disruptors you're losing the game. To make up for this the disruptor shots are very strong so if they hit you they do tons of damage. The only change that maybe could work would be reducing significantly the disruptors damage, but also reducing the cooldown and making the nova faster so it's more consistent, but I don't know if that would be good.

On October 16 2020 06:13 Slydie wrote:


Disruptors in small numbers or as a part of a small army is not an issue. When 5+ disruptors are out with chargelots and blink stalkers, ground battles in both PvP and PvT just become silly imo. Lurkers, siege tanks and liberators are better at zoning, but the mobility makes disruptors a much more frustrating unit to play against. Nerfing the movement speed can be one option to increase the skill cap.

Have you noticed how storm is almost absent except PvZ now? Disruptors do more damage instantly, and have just taken over that role, which is a bit sad to see imo. P did not really need another aoe option.

On October 16 2020 01:21 [Phantom] wrote:
I wouldn't touch the disruptor. I know it is frustrating to lost 10 supply of units instantly but you need to see the other side.

The disruptor has a shorter range than the siege tank. The "zoning" factor of the disruptor is useful sometimes, but in reality sucks compared to Lurkers/tanks/libs. You get 1 shot where you zone out enemy units for the 2 seconds the nova last, then your unit is completely useless for 21 seconds of cooldown, and due to it's medium range is easy to snipe (which is good, as it allows counterplay). And so the answer to that is having more disruptors, which can definitely buy you some time, but if you're just zoning out units you're going to lose because 21 second cooldown is very long, and you might have "zoned out" some units but eventually you run out of novas and then you have 20 supply of useless units that can't atack. And as we know without AoE a Protoss army just dies.


It's not that easy to actually hit shots with disruptors. MM can split or outrun the nova if they stim on time, and like I explained above, if you're not killing units with the disruptors you're losing the game. To make up for this the disruptor shots are very strong so if they hit you they do tons of damage. The only change that maybe could work would be reducing significantly the disruptors damage, but also reducing the cooldown and making the nova faster so it's more consistent, but I don't know if that would be good.



Yeah I agree right now they don't work, that's why I said they would need to buff it. Maybe change a little how the lock-on works/targets.




This would probably never happen, but I think a good buff for terran would be to have those flamethrower turrets they have in the campaign, as an upgrade for the CC. It could be researched on the engineering bay/armory. It would need to be a lategame upgrade, maybe require nuclear reactor? and now CC could cast those flamethrowers in exchange of energy. This would help Terrans agaisnt zealots/blink DTs, but they would also need to be careful managing scans, mules and the turrets. This would indirectly buff the terran army as they wouldn't need to leave as many units in their base, and by buffing their economy their unit output would also be buffed, which could help the lategame.

On October 16 2020 08:15 deacon.frost wrote:

Let's just the upgrade let the PFs to build units inside. Like - say - you have 12 slots in PF and you can build a helbat(4 slots), marine(1 slot) or ghost(2 slots). These units cannot exit the PF but at the same time don't cost any supply. You can play with the numbers/slots, just examples. This way Terran can reinforce PF with a blue flame, EMP and anti-air, all at once if one wants to.
When the PF is destroyed, units are burried under the debris and a short term gravestone can be shown(imagine the Worms death place )

What we don’t see, and what I think is totally doable is walling your outlying CCs/PFs with depots.

On October 16 2020 13:45 Slydie wrote:


Doable, yes, but I think there are some very good reasons why extra CCs are the late game Terran mineral sink rather than PF depot walls.