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On August 12 2019 03:18 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:11 AttackZerg wrote:
Marinelord shouldn't have engaged there.
He could have built marines and medivac groups and started picking serral off... who couldn't leave that area because he needed the money.
Really shocking ending. This and Lambos thunderbird loss to Soul were just... totally weird endings. Aside from the fact that Serral engaged into MarineLorD and that MarineLorD's army doesn't lend itself to retreating from mass infestor, I don't think 0/0 marines without stim and combat shields would have won him this game
Glad you think that.
I think dying with 4k and a billion starports is stupid.
He was doing great until he decided to be a sitting target.
Serral couldn't engage him for 15 minutes until he decided to sit forever.
He could have teleported bcs in every direction and won a base trade.
Maybe marines are the wrong choice, but they only cost minerals and Serral couldn't defend ..... so yeah... it would have been better.
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marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead??
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Northern Ireland25310 Posts
Man, discussions about the state of the game aside, Serral’s ability to just not lose even if he’s not at his best is pretty remarkable.
Soul and MarineLorD have hardly played badly at all they just can’t break the guy.
Also been a while since I watched challenger at all, really enjoying Catz’s casting, surprised he isn’t used more tbh.
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On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead??
I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals.
Not because I thought marines would be l33t.
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Northern Ireland25310 Posts
On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t.
Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards
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On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards
No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke.
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On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke.
If he had ghosts ... F nukes... Emps could have wrecked that Spellcaster army.
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Poor Marinelord, if he gets 0-2'ed now after that long exhausting game
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Northern Ireland25310 Posts
On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke.
Practicalities are no fun though 
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On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t.
upgraded hellbats are pretty fucking good at killing buildings, and with nothing else roaming the field besides roaches and lings, 1 medivac + constant hellbats would have been really nice. it was pretty clear watching marinelord that he got tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything aside from that precarious viper / bc / liberator / infestor range dance
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On August 12 2019 03:34 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke. If he had ghosts ... F nukes... Emps could have wrecked that Spellcaster army.
More likely the ghosts would have been abducted then neural'ed and then the Zerg now also has EMPs. It feels like the spell combos that late game Zerg has are too powerful compared to the other races.
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On August 12 2019 03:36 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. upgraded hellbats are pretty fucking good at killing buildings, and with nothing else roaming the field besides roaches and lings, 1 medivac + constant hellbats would have been really nice. it was pretty clear watching marinelord that he got tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything aside from that precarious viper / bc / liberator / infestor range dance
Because you have to focus entirely on the main engagement - it's a design issue of SC2 in general, across most racial matchups. You can have the best harass micro but mess up the main engagement and none of it matters
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On August 12 2019 03:37 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:34 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke. If he had ghosts ... F nukes... Emps could have wrecked that Spellcaster army. More likely the ghosts would have been abducted then neural'ed and then the Zerg now also has EMPs. It feels like the spell combos that late game Zerg has are too powerful compared to the other races.
even though interference matrix and neural are both 9 range, interference matrix very very slightly outranges the infestor (and also high templar feedback). this means, in theory, with precise control, you could scan and disable the front line of infestors, then the second line, and then teleport on top of the army without your ravens getting neuraled. disclaimer: only ever tested this in the unit test map
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On August 12 2019 03:38 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:36 SHODAN wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. upgraded hellbats are pretty fucking good at killing buildings, and with nothing else roaming the field besides roaches and lings, 1 medivac + constant hellbats would have been really nice. it was pretty clear watching marinelord that he got tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything aside from that precarious viper / bc / liberator / infestor range dance Because you have to focus entirely on the main engagement - it's a design issue of SC2 in general, across most racial matchups. You can have the best harass micro but mess up the main engagement and none of it matters
Full Theorycraft mode Engaged:
If, Mlord had waited for Serral to begin the major assault, and then teleport 2-3 bcs to every serral base .... could he have killed all of Serrals stuff before they arrived?
I think the answer is yes?
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On August 12 2019 03:41 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:38 Bagration wrote:On August 12 2019 03:36 SHODAN wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. upgraded hellbats are pretty fucking good at killing buildings, and with nothing else roaming the field besides roaches and lings, 1 medivac + constant hellbats would have been really nice. it was pretty clear watching marinelord that he got tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything aside from that precarious viper / bc / liberator / infestor range dance Because you have to focus entirely on the main engagement - it's a design issue of SC2 in general, across most racial matchups. You can have the best harass micro but mess up the main engagement and none of it matters Full Theorycraft mode Engaged: If, Mlord had waited for Serral to begin the major assault, and then teleport 2-3 bcs to every serral base .... could he have killed all of Serrals stuff before they arrived? I think the answer is yes?
Yes, but Serral just needs to build a single assimilator somewhere, and MLord would have separated his army and allowed Serral to pick his army apart. Then Serral would have his army still and MLord would have lost his.
It would have only worked if MLord could have killed every single building, but Serral (as well as most pros) would have had the sense to build some buildings to avoid instant elimination.
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On August 12 2019 03:40 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:37 Bagration wrote:On August 12 2019 03:34 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke. If he had ghosts ... F nukes... Emps could have wrecked that Spellcaster army. More likely the ghosts would have been abducted then neural'ed and then the Zerg now also has EMPs. It feels like the spell combos that late game Zerg has are too powerful compared to the other races. even though interference matrix and neural are both 9 range, interference matrix very very slightly outranges the infestor (and also high templar feedback). this means, in theory, with precise control, you could scan and disable the front line of infestors, then the second line, and then teleport on top of the army without your ravens getting neuraled. disclaimer: only ever tested this in the unit test map
Yea, but Zergs typically make 20 infestors in the late game, so interference matrix isn't very scalable in a larger engagement since it would only neutralize a single infestor
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On August 12 2019 03:45 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:41 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:38 Bagration wrote:On August 12 2019 03:36 SHODAN wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. upgraded hellbats are pretty fucking good at killing buildings, and with nothing else roaming the field besides roaches and lings, 1 medivac + constant hellbats would have been really nice. it was pretty clear watching marinelord that he got tunnel vision and couldn't focus on anything aside from that precarious viper / bc / liberator / infestor range dance Because you have to focus entirely on the main engagement - it's a design issue of SC2 in general, across most racial matchups. You can have the best harass micro but mess up the main engagement and none of it matters Full Theorycraft mode Engaged: If, Mlord had waited for Serral to begin the major assault, and then teleport 2-3 bcs to every serral base .... could he have killed all of Serrals stuff before they arrived? I think the answer is yes? Yes, but Serral just needs to build a single assimilator somewhere, and MLord would have separated his army and allowed Serral to pick his army apart. Then Serral would have his army still and MLord would have lost his. It would have only worked if MLord could have killed every single building, but Serral (as well as most pros) would have had the sense to build some buildings to avoid instant elimination.
I think anyone who has played this game or it's predecessor is familiar with an elimination race. =)
So .... what do you think if ... they had done a base trade like I described above, could mlord have killed him or do you think Serral would be able to keep a building alive.
You don't get to say Yes - No. =)
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On August 12 2019 03:48 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 03:40 SHODAN wrote:On August 12 2019 03:37 Bagration wrote:On August 12 2019 03:34 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 12 2019 03:30 AttackZerg wrote:On August 12 2019 03:27 SHODAN wrote:
marinelord could have did things better. he could have bumrushed after killing all the spores, teleport on top of the army, 1 or 2 more ravens, potentially disable 10 infestors and armor missile on the corruptors, and finish off the maneuver with an aggressive liberator siege. that's the kind of magic move I'd expect from maru or gumiho
and yeah... why are people suggesting marines when you can have hellions instead?? I was trying to think of something that would stretch the army in multiple directions and cost pure minerals. Not because I thought marines would be l33t. Whittle down the entire map to leave the Zerg army of death holding on to its last scrap of territory and form a circle of ghosts around this and nuke inwards No Infrastructure left and not enough gas to tech to to ghost/nuke. If he had ghosts ... F nukes... Emps could have wrecked that Spellcaster army. More likely the ghosts would have been abducted then neural'ed and then the Zerg now also has EMPs. It feels like the spell combos that late game Zerg has are too powerful compared to the other races. even though interference matrix and neural are both 9 range, interference matrix very very slightly outranges the infestor (and also high templar feedback). this means, in theory, with precise control, you could scan and disable the front line of infestors, then the second line, and then teleport on top of the army without your ravens getting neuraled. disclaimer: only ever tested this in the unit test map Yea, but Zergs typically make 20 infestors in the late game, so interference matrix isn't very scalable in a larger engagement since it would only neutralize a single infestor
I'm talking like 2-3 ravens, just to disable a good chunk of the infestors, not necessarily all of them.
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EPT
