EPTInno, Maru, Zest, sOs, Life, Mvp, soO, Stats, Classic, herO
Team Liquid Greatest of All Time Contest - Page 49
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
Inno, Maru, Zest, sOs, Life, Mvp, soO, Stats, Classic, herO | ||
Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On May 29 2019 01:44 Charoisaur wrote: Nah, top 10 is a stretch. A couple of the tournaments MMA won were really weak. I would put it somewhere between 8 and 12 personally, there's a bunch of protoss around there that are hard to put, altought top 10 is gonna be hard here with his upcoming match up  On May 29 2019 02:31 Charoisaur wrote: Inno, Maru, Zest, sOs, Life, Mvp, soO, Stats, Classic, herO Of course Taeja would be out of your top 10 On May 29 2019 02:22 Acrofales wrote: Also, I realized I didn't comment on Nakajin's write-up. It was excellent. Thank you for that!!! Thanks! I'll take this opportunity to say that I highly doubt I'll have time to write something that do justice to BuyN-Parting and Huk-Zest, if someone is interested in living the dream of beeing a TL writer feel free to tell me. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18410 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18410 Posts
On May 29 2019 02:31 Charoisaur wrote: Inno, Maru, Zest, sOs, Life, Mvp, soO, Stats, Classic, herO Classic? Really? I'd also not rate sOs or herO over MMA... and definitely not over Taeja, who you forgot? Oh well, we'll have the top 8 soon enough  E: Oh, you also forgot MC. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
 Premier Tournaments MedalistsThis would be helpful for a lot of these discussions too | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On May 29 2019 03:45 Bagration wrote: Is there an updated list of Premier Tournament wins like this page? Premier Tournaments MedalistsThis would be helpful for a lot of these discussions too There's this one: Premier TournamentsIt's the one I used to do my seeding | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On May 29 2019 02:48 Acrofales wrote: Classic? Really? I'd also not rate sOs or herO over MMA... and definitely not over Taeja, who you forgot? Oh well, we'll have the top 8 soon enough E: Oh, you also forgot MC. Well, the issue is that sOs has one of the best achievements in the business. IEM and double Blizzcon. That's on the top of several 2nd places and GSL Cup. Those are not some 2nd tier tournaments to win. Edit> Classic has probably better chievos than MMA too. His trophies are mostly from Korea and again, several 2nd places. MMA got hit hard with his switch to WCS IMO. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On May 29 2019 04:58 deacon.frost wrote: Well, the issue is that sOs has one of the best achievements in the business. IEM and double Blizzcon. That's on the top of several 2nd places and GSL Cup. Those are not some 2nd tier tournaments to win. Edit> Classic has probably better chievos than MMA too. His trophies are mostly from Korea and again, several 2nd places. MMA got hit hard with his switch to WCS IMO. I think you're underrating how much MMA has won - he's won multiple GSLs as well and has 3 more Premier titles than sOs and Classic. Even after MMA moved to WCS EU, he still made Blizzcon finals, which shows he was competitive with the world's best. sOs is a super clutch player who has shined when he needed to, but MMA's racked up tons of achievements over the years, including in Korea. Him dominating WCS EU is additive, not subtractive, to his legacy Furthermore, to play devil's advocate (not that I necessarily believe this) one could even argue that the Korean scene today is WEAKER than it was when guys like Mvp and MMA were playing, because the talent pool is stagnant. When's the last time we've had some up and comer in the Korean scene rise up? One could argue that it's the same shrinking pool of Korean progamers who are racking up wins in a less competitive scene | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27266 Posts
On May 29 2019 07:08 Bagration wrote: I think you're underrating how much MMA has won - he's won multiple GSLs as well and has 3 more Premier titles than sOs and Classic. Even after MMA moved to WCS EU, he still made Blizzcon finals, which shows he was competitive with the world's best. sOs is a super clutch player who has shined when he needed to, but MMA's racked up tons of achievements over the years, including in Korea. Him dominating WCS EU is additive, not subtractive, to his legacy Furthermore, to play devil's advocate (not that I necessarily believe this) one could even argue that the Korean scene today is WEAKER than it was when guys like Mvp and MMA were playing, because the talent pool is stagnant. When's the last time we've had some up and comer in the Korean scene rise up? One could argue that it's the same shrinking pool of Korean progamers who are racking up wins in a less competitive scene One could argue that. It’s fewer players yeah, but they’re on a crazy level of play. A level so high that nobody can really break into it anymore, although I attribute this mostly to team houses not existing anymore. There’s nowhere for anyone in Korea to learn their trade and gradually get up to that level. We’ve seen more foreigners make the jump from decent pro gamer to Code S calibre than we have new Korean players do the same, by far. I think this is a huge, huge problem personally, one that is kind of neglected as a topic of common discussion. | ||
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burnturn
United States59 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
Barring Life, I feel we still need: Maru, INno, TaeJa, Mvp for sure. I also think soO is a lock but I guess some could argue. Then you got all the toss: Stats, Zest, sOs, Rain, herO, Parting, Classic and MC and they are just hard to rank and separate since they are all in the same kind of ball park, except Classic I guess who's a bit behind. MC don't strike has beeing that much better than other toss. And of course the few non toss who you could argue have a place: Nestea, MMA, mayyyybeeee Polt. | ||
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Moonerz
United States467 Posts
On May 29 2019 07:08 Bagration wrote: I think you're underrating how much MMA has won - he's won multiple GSLs as well and has 3 more Premier titles than sOs and Classic. Even after MMA moved to WCS EU, he still made Blizzcon finals, which shows he was competitive with the world's best. sOs is a super clutch player who has shined when he needed to, but MMA's racked up tons of achievements over the years, including in Korea. Him dominating WCS EU is additive, not subtractive, to his legacy Furthermore, to play devil's advocate (not that I necessarily believe this) one could even argue that the Korean scene today is WEAKER than it was when guys like Mvp and MMA were playing, because the talent pool is stagnant. When's the last time we've had some up and comer in the Korean scene rise up? One could argue that it's the same shrinking pool of Korean progamers who are racking up wins in a less competitive scene Multiple GSLs? He won one | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
On May 29 2019 07:08 Bagration wrote: which include a HSC, 2 WCS EU a very weak Dreamhack and an IEM where he faced DIMAGA in the finals...I think you're underrating how much MMA has won - he's won multiple GSLs as well and has 3 more Premier titles than sOs and Classic. Yeah I take sOs and Classic's Proleague results over that any day. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On May 27 2019 19:09 Xain0n wrote: Reading the previous posts, it should be clear enough. Editing was a decision Jealous took, I wanted to answer; I see no issues. Discussions usually involve two or more parties participating by mutual agreement. If one person walks away, I would expect the other to discontinue as well, instead of monologuing to passers-by. Your post doubly confuses by specifically answering Jealous and nobody else, as though he hadn't already walked away. But maybe you just like to hear yourself talk. I also feel like I shouldn't need to explain this. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On May 29 2019 07:08 Bagration wrote: I think you're underrating how much MMA has won - he's won multiple GSLs as well and has 3 more Premier titles than sOs and Classic. Even after MMA moved to WCS EU, he still made Blizzcon finals, which shows he was competitive with the world's best. sOs is a super clutch player who has shined when he needed to, but MMA's racked up tons of achievements over the years, including in Korea. Him dominating WCS EU is additive, not subtractive, to his legacy Furthermore, to play devil's advocate (not that I necessarily believe this) one could even argue that the Korean scene today is WEAKER than it was when guys like Mvp and MMA were playing, because the talent pool is stagnant. When's the last time we've had some up and comer in the Korean scene rise up? One could argue that it's the same shrinking pool of Korean progamers who are racking up wins in a less competitive scene Maybe I'm blind or my memory is bad, but I was under the impression MMA has 1 Code S title, 1 GSL Cup, 1 IEM, several WCS and then some other titles. Which 2 Code S titles he won? I don't want to downplay him, but sOs is literally 3 times world champion. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On May 29 2019 16:08 pvsnp wrote: Discussions usually involve two or more parties participating by mutual agreement. If one person walks away, I would expect the other to discontinue as well, instead of monologuing to passers-by. Your post doubly confuses by specifically answering Jealous and nobody else, as though he hadn't already walked away. But maybe you just like to hear yourself talk. I also feel like I shouldn't need to explain this. I cannot unsee what he wrote before editing and I assume he didn't radically change opinion; writing on a forum ensures he may read my answer whenever he wants, as opposed to wasting words as in your example because he has walked away. That's not meant to generate a discussion, in any of case, just to answer once since I was able of reading his original post. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On May 29 2019 16:27 deacon.frost wrote: Maybe I'm blind or my memory is bad, but I was under the impression MMA has 1 Code S title, 1 GSL Cup, 1 IEM, several WCS and then some other titles. Which 2 Code S titles he won? I don't want to downplay him, but sOs is literally 3 times world champion. I'm guessing he counted Blizzard cup as a GSL | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
Probably totally off the rails but its what I think, Taeja being the last shoe in isn't really in a strong position either, could be exchanged for a few other names. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18410 Posts
On May 29 2019 22:37 Shuffleblade wrote: I think its really hard to just make up your own goat list since its so subjective, for me that values GSLs higher than most it looks something like this. Maru, Innovation, MVP, Life, soO, Classic, Stats, MMA, sOs and Taeja. Probably totally off the rails but its what I think, Taeja being the last shoe in isn't really in a strong position either, could be exchanged for a few other names. Don't really understand anybody who has Classic in their list But even aside from that, if you value GSL so much, how are MC, Zest and Nestea not in there? Whereas you do include soO, Stats, MMA and sOs (and Taeja, but you mentioned him as an exception). | ||
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