On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
I posted this in the Snute retirement thread but I suppose it would be much better suited to this one instead.
On September 08 2018 18:37 207aicila wrote: Not gonna lie, it's pretty frustrating to see first the player spot mismanagement by DreamHack and then these absurd groups of death while half the other groups would have been free wins for someone of Snute's calibre...
In general it kinda sucks to have so many fan favourites out in groups already... Especially when you know some of the players who somehow scraped by a victory against them are going to promptly get 3-0d by Serral or uThermal anyway.
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
Could we not somehow use WCS Point Rankings to some degree? To rank players and put them in certain groups.
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
Could we not somehow use WCS Point Rankings to some degree? To rank players and put them in certain groups.
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
Could we not somehow use WCS Point Rankings to some degree? To rank players and put them in certain groups.
Wouldn't that be a little too top-favoured?
Is seeding players more unfair than doing the exact opposite and screwing over people who are better in favor of the worse ones having easier groups than them?
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
Could we not somehow use WCS Point Rankings to some degree? To rank players and put them in certain groups.
maybe, but what should "some degree" mean? and a lot of players (especially at the beginning of the season) don't have any points when they start in the early group stages. and if a player has one good weekend (remember two of the three runner ups this year where complete underdogs), they get even more values out of two or three good days. that wouldn't be fair either.
and in addition the system shouldn't get to predetermined, or it gets more repetitive as it is already with all 4 WCS stops having the exact same setup
On September 08 2018 19:22 Fango wrote: SpeCial would beat the majority of players in this ro16. That group was a crime.
well, with only 4 spots for the european qualifier, you will always have a number of top players coming form the groupstages 1+2, it's hard or impossible to avoid those loopsided groups with this setting i think
It may be hard but it's something dreamhack/wcs should be doing. Having some of the best players in the tournament facing off in early rounds is stupid. Snute losing in group stage 2 going 1-2 against Reynor and 3-2 against Harstem is a tragedy.
Especially with only four of these events giving wcs points. It feels like bracket luck over skill for half these blizzcon spots.
oh, i totally agree with you, that something needs to change in that regard.
my suggestion is to redistribute the qualifing spots, since i have no clue how to change the seeding to avoid these problems in a fair way
Could we not somehow use WCS Point Rankings to some degree? To rank players and put them in certain groups.
Wouldn't that be a little too top-favoured?
Is seeding players more unfair than doing the exact opposite and screwing over people who are better in favor of the worse ones having easier groups than them?
probably not.
but consider this:
player A has more WCS points than player B, both advance from the same group in stage2, B as the first, A as the second.
how should get the "easier" group in stage 3? the player with more WCS points, or the one with the better result in the previous group?
and if the solution is a mixture of both, then what would be a fair ratio?
i honestly can't think of one, and i guess the guys at dreamhack have a similar problem, cause i can imagine that they want to have to top players in the tournament for as long as possible as well and aren't totally happy with the way it is right now
I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
On September 08 2018 21:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
"It does not favour anyone" is a bit misleading; more like it favours people randomly, not based on skill.
I'm voting for blank portraits to win and there's nothing you purists can do about it. I'm also ready to see series of disappointing games. Has to win it all Serral on a full T I L T, bordering a slump, only making it to the semis More retirement tweets I need a burger, Hesburger
On September 08 2018 21:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
Random draw inherently favours the weaker players because it ignores actual skill when seeding them. It gives them a better chance at advancing further than they probably should (e.g. a top 40 player making the ro8 is more likely). It also gives top players a greater chance at losing in early rounds.
A "fair" system isn't one than seeds everyone equally, it's one that seeds them based on how good they are.
On September 08 2018 21:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
Random draw inherently favours the weaker players because it ignores actual skill when seeding them. It gives them a better chance at advancing further than they probably should (e.g. a top 40 player making the ro8 is more likely). It also gives top players a greater chance at losing in early rounds.
A "fair" system isn't one than seeds everyone equally, it's one that seeds them based on how good they are.
A fair system is a system which does not favor anyone. Random seeding in itself does not favor anyone, it's random. The outcome will obviously favor some players over others, nothing one can ever do about that in a bracket or even any tournament system. What you are talking about is favoring worse players compared to a fixed, unfair system simply because they could get lucky.
Notice how i said i would prefer seeding as well, because i think it makes for more entertaining tournaments, there is no need to call it fairer when it isn't.
On September 08 2018 22:46 TheDougler wrote: I feel like seeding that makes sense, plus a double elim format would've gone a long ways here. Oh well, there's still hope at least.
Did they ever give a reason to not do double elim?
On September 08 2018 21:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
Random draw inherently favours the weaker players because it ignores actual skill when seeding them. It gives them a better chance at advancing further than they probably should (e.g. a top 40 player making the ro8 is more likely). It also gives top players a greater chance at losing in early rounds.
A "fair" system isn't one than seeds everyone equally, it's one that seeds them based on how good they are.
A fair system is a system which does not favor anyone. .
Correct.
And as Fango eloquently explained, a fully random system DOES favour those who would normally be at a disadvantage under a purely meritocratic system.
On September 08 2018 22:46 TheDougler wrote: I feel like seeding that makes sense, plus a double elim format would've gone a long ways here. Oh well, there's still hope at least.
Did they ever give a reason to not do double elim?
Was it just time?
No idea.
Man, imagine if Scarlett (2nd in her group) got the place in the bracket that Time did (2nd in his group). She probably could've top 4'd if not made it to the finals (though Reynor or Neeb would be tough). Instead she's probably out to Serral in the RO8 again.
On September 08 2018 21:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I personally would prefer seeding because in my opinion it makes for a more exciting tournament, seeing the perceived best players duke it out in the later stages. But random draw is the "fair" solution because it does not favor anyone.
Random draw inherently favours the weaker players because it ignores actual skill when seeding them. It gives them a better chance at advancing further than they probably should (e.g. a top 40 player making the ro8 is more likely). It also gives top players a greater chance at losing in early rounds.
A "fair" system isn't one than seeds everyone equally, it's one that seeds them based on how good they are.
A fair system is a system which does not favor anyone. Random seeding in itself does not favor anyone, it's random. The outcome will obviously favor some players over others, nothing one can ever do about that in a bracket or even any tournament system. What you are talking about is favoring worse players compared to a fixed, unfair system simply because they could get lucky.
Notice how i said i would prefer seeding as well, because i think it makes for more entertaining tournaments, there is no need to call it fairer when it isn't.
Seeding players based on how good they are is not unfair. It's not fair to fuck over someone like SpeCial or ShoWtimE in favour of some random player you've never heard of.
By that reasoning giving more prize money to the top places is unfair. If a player is better/gets further in a tournament do they not deserve more prize money?
Random seeding gives weaker players a better chance at advancing further than stronger ones. Therefore you can say it favours them. In my opinion that is unfair, as a fair system would result in the better players being the ones who advance the furthest.
On September 08 2018 23:19 The_Red_Viper wrote: Will Jon Snow stop Serral from achieving the possible fourllowup?? Would be a huge upset
If that happens, that would be a serious blow to the hype train. Wouldn't be good for his Blizzcon chances I think.
i would think that a single maploss in a ro16 match won't say to much about a tournament two months ahead, but maybe my latest delivery of melange was somewhat blended
On September 08 2018 23:19 The_Red_Viper wrote: Will Jon Snow stop Serral from achieving the possible fourllowup?? Would be a huge upset
If that happens, that would be a serious blow to the hype train. Wouldn't be good for his Blizzcon chances I think.
i would think that a single maploss in a ro16 match won't say to much about a tournament two months ahead, but maybe my latest delivery of melange was somewhat blended
I think you misread their posts; the premise is that JonSlow beats Serral not that he just wins a map or two.
On September 08 2018 23:19 The_Red_Viper wrote: Will Jon Snow stop Serral from achieving the possible fourllowup?? Would be a huge upset
If that happens, that would be a serious blow to the hype train. Wouldn't be good for his Blizzcon chances I think.
i would think that a single maploss in a ro16 match won't say to much about a tournament two months ahead, but maybe my latest delivery of melange was somewhat blended
I think you misread their posts; the premise is that JonSlow beats Serral not that he just wins a map or two.
and if he gets crushed 3:0 (he won't) now, what does this tell me about his form in november in (one of the two) the biggest tournament of the year?
On September 08 2018 23:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: JonSnow could have been ahead after that ling/bane, he got a whole bunch of drones read but didn't kill them.
he also got a big pack of zerglings, it was quite mindblowing how he was suddenly behind.
On September 08 2018 23:56 blunderfulguy wrote: Broccoli power was not enough. Better luck next time. GGs.
Try spinach next time.
real men eat meat
go vegan
but I like my body
Thats not a fair way of looking at it either, if we continue with that logic then why do we do anything for anyone? We do it because it's basic human decency, in society we generally accept that if our loss is significantly less than someone's gain then its the right thing to do.
On September 08 2018 23:56 blunderfulguy wrote: Broccoli power was not enough. Better luck next time. GGs.
Try spinach next time.
real men eat meat
go vegan
but I like my body
Thats not a fair way of looking at it either, if we continue with that logic then why do we do anything for anyone? We do it because it's basic human decency, in society we generally accept that if our loss is significantly less than someone's gain then its the right thing to do.
On September 09 2018 00:16 blunderfulguy wrote: "blah blah [tournament stats] blah blah [pointless information]" Okay but what did they have for breakfast???
On September 09 2018 00:16 blunderfulguy wrote: "blah blah [tournament stats] blah blah [pointless information]" Okay but what did they have for breakfast???
there's a very obvious joke about ShaDown's ID that everybody is circling around, but obviously some Zerg will make after Scarlett is cannoned out of this series.
On September 09 2018 00:17 Ej_ wrote: there's a very obvious joke about ShaDown's ID that everybody is circling around, but obviously some Zerg will make after Scarlett is cannoned out of this series.
On September 09 2018 00:16 blunderfulguy wrote: "blah blah [tournament stats] blah blah [pointless information]" Okay but what did they have for breakfast???
how else should they tell you that this series is going to be great, possibly spectacular?
On September 09 2018 00:34 Psychonian wrote: Well, I didn't expect this series to be this one sided
how one sided is it?
I assume you're not watching?
Game 1 shadown went cannon rush into losing his entire fuckin base to a proxy hatch, game 2 he goes double robo colossus and gets absolutely picked apart by multi pronged attacks including drop play
I swear these builds have had so much success when it's a lesser protoss fighting a better zerg. I wonder why we don't see it much from guys like Neeb, Stats, Classic etc. Maybe I just haven't been watching enough.
On September 09 2018 00:49 Fango wrote: I swear these builds have had so much success when it's a lesser protoss fighting a better zerg. I wonder why we don't see it much from guys like Neeb, Stats, Classic etc. Maybe I just haven't been watching enough.
It doesn't work vs good players. When Dark fucked up and lost to Classic doing it at GSl vs The World, he said he had considered retirement then.
On September 09 2018 00:49 Fango wrote: I swear these builds have had so much success when it's a lesser protoss fighting a better zerg. I wonder why we don't see it much from guys like Neeb, Stats, Classic etc. Maybe I just haven't been watching enough.
It doesn't work vs good players. When Dark fucked up and lost to Classic doing it at GSl vs The World, he said he had considered retirement then.
If Has had the mechanics of half the protoss in GSL he could have beaten Serral.
On September 09 2018 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Okay Proxy fucking everything is ridiculous in this game at this point, fucking do something Blizzard
On September 09 2018 00:49 Fango wrote: I swear these builds have had so much success when it's a lesser protoss fighting a better zerg. I wonder why we don't see it much from guys like Neeb, Stats, Classic etc. Maybe I just haven't been watching enough.
It doesn't work vs good players. When Dark fucked up and lost to Classic doing it at GSl vs The World, he said he had considered retirement then.
If Has had the mechanics of half the protoss in GSL he could have beaten Serral.
Themuszero also would've made it work against soO if he could micro.
On September 09 2018 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Okay Proxy fucking everything is ridiculous in this game at this point, fucking do something Blizzard
I agree, this is absolutely absurd
Agreed, it's disheartening how PvZ is sub 50% for YEARS and Protoss players have to cheese to have any chance to win :/
On September 09 2018 00:54 imre wrote: When you're rooting for the player doing it this shit is so fun. That's why everyone should be a Has fan.
I will admit, I'm enjoying these games despite rooting for Scarlett.
It's kinda fun when Has is the only one that does it and surprises people with it. When half the protosses that are outmatched do it and you see it coming from miles away, less so.
On September 09 2018 01:03 Shellshock wrote: I thought the secret was going to be get pneumatic carapace and droperlord and do warp prism immortals vs overlord queen
On September 09 2018 01:03 Shellshock wrote: I thought the secret was going to be get pneumatic carapace and droperlord and do warp prism immortals vs overlord queen
I thought Scarlett's going to lose in the final game. Just a question, if the 4 immortals weren't sniped, could Scarlett still win and crush the immortals?
On September 09 2018 01:10 Terra1 wrote: I thought Scarlett's going to lose in the final game. Just a question, if the 4 immortals weren't sniped, could Scarlett still win and crush the immortals?
Still grats to Scarlett.
I think she wins anyway. She just has to gain time and at one point, she crushes Shadowns army because these 6 Immortals are all he'll ever have this game. And I don't think Shadown can charge in fast enough to prevent that from happening.
If uThermal or Lambo lose today it'd make tomorrow so much more heartbreaking. Scarlett is currently at 9th in WCS rankings. If she had managed to avoid Serral, she would have had a damn good shot at making Blizzcon: 2018 StarCraft II World Championship Series Circuit/Standings
Who knows though, she's beat Serral before, hopefully she can do it again.
On September 09 2018 01:10 Terra1 wrote: I thought Scarlett's going to lose in the final game. Just a question, if the 4 immortals weren't sniped, could Scarlett still win and crush the immortals?
Still grats to Scarlett.
She was still winning either way, but the Immortal snipe was the nail in the coffin.
So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
e: misread that. But Lambo has a good shot, better than Scarlett I'd say. Favourites should be uThermal and Lambo.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
Lambo is quite likely to get a blizzcon spot as well (unfortunately for Nerchio).
There's still an outside chance that Reynor could beat Serral in the finals for a blizzcon seed. It's also possible, although very unlikely, that Reynor could qualify with 2030 points after getting 1400 for reaching the finals. For that to happen, Scarlett would have to lose to Serral (fair enough) and only one of Lambo and uThermal could reach the RO8.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
I'm pretty sure Reynor would have to take the whole thing to get 2030 points, at which point it doesn't matter because he'd be going anyway.
EDIT: I just checked, and he actually would only need second place, so that's a lot more likely.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
I'm pretty sure Reynor would have to take the whole thing to get 2030 points, at which point it doesn't matter because he'd be going anyway.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
I'm pretty sure Reynor would have to take the whole thing to get 2030 points, at which point it doesn't matter because he'd be going anyway.
Reynor getting 2nd gives him 2030
However, if uThermal makes Ro8, he will have 2130 and would have the 8th spot.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
I'm pretty sure Reynor would have to take the whole thing to get 2030 points, at which point it doesn't matter because he'd be going anyway.
Reynor getting 2nd gives him 2030
However, if uThermal makes Ro8, he will have 2130 and would have the 8th spot.
On September 09 2018 01:33 Fango wrote: So it's basically down to Nerchio, Scarlett and uThermal for the last two blizzcon spots. Shame Scarlett has to meet Serral again or she'd probably get it.
How do you figure? Both uThermal and Lambo have good shots.
I'm assuming both Lambo and uThermal lose in the ro8 tbh. Which means uThermal steals the last spot unless Scarlett beats Serral and takes it.
Lambo loses in RO8 actually, Reynor could qualify with 2030 WCS points.
I'm pretty sure Reynor would have to take the whole thing to get 2030 points, at which point it doesn't matter because he'd be going anyway.
Reynor getting 2nd gives him 2030
However, if uThermal makes Ro8, he will have 2130 and would have the 8th spot.
So if all these matches go as their supposed to, uThermal will get the 8th spot. Both him, Scarlett and Lambo should lose in the ro8, and Reynor isn't gonna win the whole thing.
If Reynor does make the final, we could be looking at a world where Challenger Montreal made the difference between him going to Blizzcon and not. That's fuckin crazy.
On September 09 2018 01:42 Heartland wrote: Did the stream die?
No, but Zanster did.
Typical Swedes.
At least he didn't knock anyone up.
Wait, what?
NaNiwa.
Naniwa knocked someone up? What's the story behind this?
He had sex with Destiny's ex-gf, she got pregnant, they got married, she gave birth, they divorced she moved out. I don't know if she still lives in Sweden.
On September 09 2018 01:42 Heartland wrote: Did the stream die?
No, but Zanster did.
Typical Swedes.
At least he didn't knock anyone up.
Wait, what?
NaNiwa.
Naniwa knocked someone up? What's the story behind this?
He had sex with Destiny's ex-gf, she got pregnant, they got married, she gave birth, they divorced she moved out. I don't know if she still lives in Sweden.
On September 09 2018 01:42 Heartland wrote: Did the stream die?
No, but Zanster did.
Typical Swedes.
At least he didn't knock anyone up.
Wait, what?
NaNiwa.
Naniwa knocked someone up? What's the story behind this?
He had sex with Destiny's ex-gf, she got pregnant, they got married, she gave birth, they divorced she moved out. I don't know if she still lives in Sweden.
He also lost the guard of his child and got in a legal lawsuit for child pension apparently
On September 09 2018 01:42 Heartland wrote: Did the stream die?
No, but Zanster did.
Typical Swedes.
At least he didn't knock anyone up.
Wait, what?
NaNiwa.
Naniwa knocked someone up? What's the story behind this?
He had sex with Destiny's ex-gf, she got pregnant, they got married, she gave birth, they divorced she moved out. I don't know if she still lives in Sweden.
He also lost the guard of his child and got in a legal lawsuit for child pension apparently
who could have ever guessed Naniwa procreating was a bad idea?
It's funny to watch the skill difference between Marus games this morning and TIME now. Marus proxys was crazy crisp and he didn't lose anything but TIME lose cyclone after cyclone for almost nothing.
On September 09 2018 03:26 blooblooblahblah wrote: Cannon rush is super good on this map PvT but I don't really like how Has did this. The way printf does it on this map is way better imo.
Anything is better than trying to cannon rush and losing 3 probes.
On September 09 2018 03:26 blooblooblahblah wrote: Cannon rush is super good on this map PvT but I don't really like how Has did this. The way printf does it on this map is way better imo.
Anything is better than trying to cannon rush and losing 3 probes.
That as well lol but still, there's no reason not to proxy the gateway imo
Has made about 100 mistakes this game and I'm not exaggerating. Just wow (game not yet over at this point, but that doesnt matter). First of all, I think any diamond level player could have won from the position Has was in right at the start (credit to Has for getting in that position). Has had 3 stalkers and 1 zealot and decided not to shoot the scv making the CC which would have been a single click, and then TIME had like 3 marines and a few scvs at the top of his ramp and a just started Cyclone. Has had like 30 seconds to do a LOT of damage but chose not to. That was just the beginning lol
EDIT: But that's the story of Has I guess. Looks so bad, makes so many mistakes, but still finds a way <3
he knew there was an stargate in the main he knew there was a nexus made and therefore a probe aroudn the map, he knew mariens cannot chase blink stlakers...... Im spechless
On September 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote: "Baseraces always favor terrans because of flying buildings"
Pretty sure that last game can hardly even count as a counterexample to that, as presumably your quote assumes that both players aren't acting like idiots.
On September 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote: "Baseraces always favor terrans because of flying buildings"
Pretty sure that last game can hardly even count as a counterexample to that, as presumably your quote assumes that both players aren't acting like idiots.
On September 09 2018 03:50 TentativePanda wrote: I think any diamond level player could have won from the position Has was in
It's shocking how many times this has been said
Well, to be fair all he had to do was decide to walk up the ramp with some basic micro... I know it's hard to know exactly what's going on in that position, as he doesnt see what we see, but he really should have had a better understanding of how easy it would have been to be more aggressive there. I'm not saying Has is a diamond player, he got himself into a great position because he's a great player. But that was the wrong time to be cautious.
I thought TIME had game 4 in the bag when he killed the last High Templars, but I did not expect Has would stay calm and make all the right decisions to win the base race.
On September 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote: "Baseraces always favor terrans because of flying buildings"
Pretty sure that last game can hardly even count as a counterexample to that, as presumably your quote assumes that both players aren't acting like idiots.
On September 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote: "Baseraces always favor terrans because of flying buildings"
Pretty sure that last game can hardly even count as a counterexample to that, as presumably your quote assumes that both players aren't acting like idiots.
On September 09 2018 04:02 MarthTV wrote: Watching Has is better than gambling. The same amout of adrenalin and excitement but without the fear of losing all your money.
but the fear of losing all your money is what makes gambling exciting
On September 09 2018 04:31 Heartland wrote: watching this after the glory of Has feels like eating my own homecooked food after being at a Michelin restaurant
On September 09 2018 04:31 Heartland wrote: watching this after the glory of Has feels like eating my own homecooked food after being at a Michelin restaurant
if Has is a Michelin restaurant, it's one of those that serves you ants and tells you you're stupid for not appreciating it
The last fight of G3 semper vs heromarine was between 2-2 bio + 2-2 mech against 1-1 bio and 3 tanks... It felt like Big Gabe was just toying with semper in that game ^^
After this and the previous match, do people really think the foreign scene has caught up to Korea? Yes, you have Serral, but he's the outlier, not the norm
On September 09 2018 05:38 Bagration wrote: After this and the previous match, do people really think the foreign scene has caught up to Korea? Yes, you have Serral, but he's the outlier, not the norm
I think the argument was that the gap is not as large as it used to be, not that foreigners are as good as Koreans.
On September 09 2018 05:38 Bagration wrote: After this and the previous match, do people really think the foreign scene has caught up to Korea? Yes, you have Serral, but he's the outlier, not the norm
what does heromarine easyly outplaying a weaker opponent tell me about the skilldifference with respect to korea?
On September 09 2018 05:38 Bagration wrote: After this and the previous match, do people really think the foreign scene has caught up to Korea? Yes, you have Serral, but he's the outlier, not the norm
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
Fun fact there is currently an election in Quebec and multiple partys are proposing expansion of the Internet latout or even nationalisation of Internet infrastructure. So it will probably get a bit better for some of us!
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
That's where you'd be wrong, bruv.
Ok. But why. How much does it cost to lay a few more 600km lines of fibre from Montreal straight to NYC? and then from there, Ottawa and Toronto are easily linked up. That's 3 of your 5 biggest cities connected.
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
That's where you'd be wrong, bruv.
Ok. But why. How much does it cost to lay a few more 600km lines of fibre from Montreal straight to NYC? and then from there, Ottawa and Toronto are easily linked up. That's 3 of your 5 biggest cities connected.
Because Canadian telecom companies spend a lot of money on lobbyists.
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
That's where you'd be wrong, bruv.
Ok. But why. How much does it cost to lay a few more 600km lines of fibre from Montreal straight to NYC? and then from there, Ottawa and Toronto are easily linked up. That's 3 of your 5 biggest cities connected.
I mean, your first mistake is thinking that logic works with French Canadians.
On September 09 2018 06:45 tilhorizon wrote: what is rotterdam saying , reynor was last in group stage wcs europe montreal qualifications he lost vs lambo and clem
and than rotterdam says he is top dog besides serral to win this tournament ?
reynor is not even top 3 zergs in europe , those are lambo/elazor/nerchio
Elazer? Nerchio? Those Ro32 scrubs? Get with the times bro
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
That's where you'd be wrong, bruv.
Ok. But why. How much does it cost to lay a few more 600km lines of fibre from Montreal straight to NYC? and then from there, Ottawa and Toronto are easily linked up. That's 3 of your 5 biggest cities connected.
I mean, your first mistake is thinking that logic works with French Canadians.
How dare you we would love that, as long as those cables can prove they speak perfect french of course
On September 09 2018 06:10 Shellshock wrote: Canada and Australia have impressively bad internet
Australia at least has the excuse that it's miles away from anywhere and doesn't have the population to merit investing the billions in that infrastructure. But most of the Canadian cities are within 100km of the US, and really shouldn't be too expensive to get decent internet.
That's where you'd be wrong, bruv.
Ok. But why. How much does it cost to lay a few more 600km lines of fibre from Montreal straight to NYC? and then from there, Ottawa and Toronto are easily linked up. That's 3 of your 5 biggest cities connected.
I mean, your first mistake is thinking that logic works with French Canadians.
How dare you we would love that, as long as those cables can prove they speak perfect french of course
On September 09 2018 06:56 Topin wrote: Reynors runbys reminds me someone....
He's been compared to Life many times, and was actually asked about it during his interview with NoRegreT. He said he takes it as a huge compliment with regards to playing (obviously not some of Life's more questionable behaviors).
On September 09 2018 07:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Neeb played terribly but the invisible boys pulled through for him.
I think his strategic play this game was very good, but obviously his mechanics have been shit.
Tbh, this sums up a lot of Neeb's play this year, even in the GSL his mechanics haven't been as crisp as we would expect. He's been particularly sloppy today as well.
Lots of mistakes by Neeb put Reynor in a winning position, then Neeb builds a Dark Shrine, warps in Dark Templars, walks them across the map, kills Reynor's Hive, and then wins a scrappy battle in which he repeatedly kills Reynor's detection.
On September 09 2018 07:11 _Darwin_ wrote: Holy cow Neeb looks tired.
Yea, that's why the Korean dominance in foreign tournaments is so impressive when you consider that most of them were jet-lagged as hell. It's revealing to see how Neeb's form is being impact by jet-lag, and realizing that all the other Korean players had been dealing with a similar handicap
On September 09 2018 07:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Neeb played terribly but the invisible boys pulled through for him.
I think his strategic play this game was very good, but obviously his mechanics have been shit.
Tbh, this sums up a lot of Neeb's play this year, even in the GSL his mechanics haven't been as crisp as we would expect. He's been particularly sloppy today as well.
This is an entirely different level. This is donating units for free all over the place. To win a game playing like that is Has level.
Neeb made a deal with some dark God to stop losing his warp prisms last year, but he failed to uphold his side of the bargain, so all the sloppiness is coming back with interest.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
On September 09 2018 07:11 _Darwin_ wrote: Holy cow Neeb looks tired.
Yea, that's why the Korean dominance in foreign tournaments is so impressive when you consider that most of them were jet-lagged as hell. It's revealing to see how Neeb's form is being impact by jet-lag, and realizing that all the other Korean players had been dealing with a similar handicap
Well that argument is a stretch. You can't say that all koreans have had jet lag to this degree.
In fact, it's noticable when they do have it, such as MC when he lost to Idra 0-2 or 0-3 in MLG Columbus, and then the next day beat him handidly 3-0 or 4-0 in the rematch.
On September 09 2018 07:27 Myrddrael wrote: Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
There's a difference between not being your best and looking like you're a 4k MMR player.
On the plus side, if he does better than ShoWTimE in this event then he'll go up against Dark in the first round of blizzcon. So losing here isn't a complete disaster.
Neeb must be absolutely exhausted I guess. Hopefully he'll be well rested for Blizzcon. Meanwhile, I'm really hoping Reynor pulls off the ACTUALLY impossible and beats Serral in the finals. It'll be tough though, and he's got some tough opponents to beat first no doubt.
On September 09 2018 07:27 Myrddrael wrote: Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
In their quest to overhype Reynor, people will forget that with preparation and sleep, Neeb thrashed Reynor in GSL, instead hyping a far less important match with jet lag and no sleep.
On September 09 2018 07:29 stilt wrote: Neeb might be not in his best form but Reynor is amazing.
He's having relatively close games against someone who is so done that they go double stargate phoenix and lose all the phoenixes for free. He shouldn't feel amazing about any of this.
On September 09 2018 07:29 stilt wrote: Neeb might be not in his best form but Reynor is amazing.
He's having relatively close games against someone who is so done that they go double stargate phoenix and lose all the phoenixes for free. He shouldn't feel amazing about any of this.
On September 09 2018 07:27 Myrddrael wrote: Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
Preparing for TY would be an excuse if the problem was Neeb's build orders not being the most inspired, or his reads not being on point. It doesn't really explain the fact that his mechanics look terribly off.
On September 09 2018 07:27 Myrddrael wrote: Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
Preparing for TY would be an excuse if the problem was Neeb's build orders not being the most inspired, or his reads not being on point. It doesn't really explain the fact that his mechanics look terribly off.
Overpracticing one matchup can effect your mechanics in others though. What would usually be reflex/muscle memory may be slower if you haven't done it much.
But I do agree that right here Neeb is playing worse than normal. Maybe he's just tired from the late flight.
On September 09 2018 07:27 Myrddrael wrote: Everyone seems to have forgotten that Neeb literally flew in to Montreal yesterday after preparing solely for TY for weeks. Why are people surprised that he's not at his best here????
Preparing for TY would be an excuse if the problem was Neeb's build orders not being the most inspired, or his reads not being on point. It doesn't really explain the fact that his mechanics look terribly off.
Overpracticing one matchup can effect your mechanics in others though. What would usually be reflex/muscle memory may be slower if you haven't done it much.
But I do agree that right here Neeb is playing worse than normal. Maybe he's just tired from the late flight.
True enough if we're talking about something specific like splitting versus banelings or baiting out widow mine shots. Not so much if we're talking about cancelling nexi and not floating phoenixes over spores and turrets.
Neeb had the bigger and better army the whole time. This wasnt as suprising as one might think. Wasting all the banelings on probes is always risky for zerg
On September 09 2018 07:46 Fango wrote: Incontrol kept calling it over for Neeb without checking the army supply lol
Well, Incontrol's entertaining, is charismatic, has good co-caster chemistry, and that's why he's here haha
and to be fair to him there was a lot going on in other places on the map that the observer didnt show. some carriers were spawning soon after Neeb left and we didnt see the group of immortals killing the fresh base and drones at all
On September 09 2018 07:47 Fango wrote: That was a game that makes you tilted from Reynor's perspective. Seeing your opponent make a million mistakes and still losing.
That is to say, you don't just keep sacking banelings into mineral lines leaving you to make banes in an emergency while neebs army is at your doorstep.
On September 09 2018 07:47 Fango wrote: That was a game that makes you tilted from Reynor's perspective. Seeing your opponent make a million mistakes and still losing.
Any of these games should tilt him. Imagine you're Reynor and you play against a guy who looks to be playing so out of shape (presumably from jetlag). And you struggle so much. And he gets a bogus win with DTs you never expected, too.
On September 09 2018 07:47 Fango wrote: That was a game that makes you tilted from Reynor's perspective. Seeing your opponent make a million mistakes and still losing.
Any of these games should tilt him. Imagine you're Reynor and you play against a guy who looks to be playing so out of shape (presumably from jetlag). And you struggle so much. And he gets a bogus win with DTs you never expected, too.
yeah Reynor looked really tilted following that game, not that i blame him lol
On September 09 2018 07:47 Fango wrote: That was a game that makes you tilted from Reynor's perspective. Seeing your opponent make a million mistakes and still losing.
Any of these games should tilt him. Imagine you're Reynor and you play against a guy who looks to be playing so out of shape (presumably from jetlag). And you struggle so much. And he gets a bogus win with DTs you never expected, too.
For the love of everything holy and Italian, Reynor is jet lagged too.
This is next level from Neeb. He could've just won the series, but if he wins this, he probably has won every single series he'll have to play against Reynor in 2019.
On September 09 2018 07:47 Fango wrote: That was a game that makes you tilted from Reynor's perspective. Seeing your opponent make a million mistakes and still losing.
Any of these games should tilt him. Imagine you're Reynor and you play against a guy who looks to be playing so out of shape (presumably from jetlag). And you struggle so much. And he gets a bogus win with DTs you never expected, too.
For the love of everything holy and Italian, Reynor is jet lagged too.
True, but unlike Neeb, his mechanics haven't decayed to 5 tiers below his normal self.
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
that is a fucking ridiculous thing to say lmao, we have seen way wayyyy worse chokes
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
REKT!
He finally closes out the game that was over 3 minutes after it started ;o
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
REKT!
He finally closes out the game that was over 3 minutes after it started ;o
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
that is a fucking ridiculous thing to say lmao, we have seen way wayyyy worse chokes
On September 09 2018 07:56 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Reynor is the worst choker i've ever seen, what the fuck is he doing, all he had to do was morph banes and amove
that is a fucking ridiculous thing to say lmao, we have seen way wayyyy worse chokes
On September 09 2018 08:03 HsDLTitich wrote: Riccardo sei per me numero uno
On September 09 2018 08:03 Bagration wrote: How far does Reynor needs to go to qualify for Blizzcon?
He needs to win it all
Riccardo è il numero 1
I should report you people for not following the forum rules and talking in Italian but that would be like reporting Finnish people for drunk Santa and Hockey gifs I guess.
All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
On September 09 2018 08:05 Yonnua wrote: All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
Current form is one thing, but Reynor is far from Neeb when it comes to career accomplishments (though he does have a few years to catch up since he's 4 years younger)
On September 09 2018 08:05 Yonnua wrote: All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
Nobody has said anything, no need to be prematurely upset
On September 09 2018 08:05 Yonnua wrote: All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
I'm as big a reynor fanboy as they come, but he still has a long way to go to be considered a superior player to Neeb, although it could be argued that his current form is better - there's almost no way Neeb could ever take down Maru. But, these things are absolutely up for debate.
On September 09 2018 08:05 Yonnua wrote: All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
Reynor is jet lagged too? And he beat Classic in GSL, it's not like he's defeating newbies and nonames these past few months.
On September 09 2018 08:05 Yonnua wrote: All it took Reynor to barely beat Neeb was a multi-day jet lag advantage, Neeb practicing exclusively for one player for a week, less than 12 hours prep time, and a match up that statistically favours zerg 55% of the time.
I look forward to this being used as an example of Reynor being a 'far superior player'.
Put the salt down , noone said anything. The only far superior player in this tournament is Mr Serral