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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
 GSL Season 1Streams & CastersFormat
Map Pool Group A![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1971.jpg)  INnoVation vs  Leenock![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4571.jpg)  Zest vs ScarlettResults+ Show Spoiler [Matchlist] + CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
Poll: Who Advances Group A? INnoVation & Scarlett (37) Zest & INnoVation (17) Scarlet & Zest (14) Leenock & INnoVation (7) Leenock & Scarlett (3) Zest & Leenock (2) 80 total votes Your vote: Who Advances Group A? (Vote): INnoVation & Scarlett | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 06:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Is the map pool accurate? Because I'd have expected them to switch to the new ladder maps between rounds. Does GSL ever switched maps mid season? They never even follow the ladder map pool anyway | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 06:47 Fango wrote: Does GSL ever switched maps mid season? They never even follow the ladder map pool anyway They did so last year season 1 under more or less identical circumstances. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 06:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: They did so last year season 1 under more or less identical circumstances. Oh maybe they do then. Strange considering they don't follow the ladder exactly anyway | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
As far as the players go, Inno won't even break a sweat, Leenock is toast, Zest vs Scarlett for the decider. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
INno should be fine so it's between Zest and Scarlett, both would make me happy so I should wake up happy tomorrow  . | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13968 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13968 Posts
On February 10 2018 08:31 Fango wrote: Is whoever gets 2nd place in this group is facing a probable 0-3 in the ro8? they have to play the winner of Group B...so yes, they are getting obliterated 3-0 | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 08:46 Cricketer12 wrote: they have to play the winner of Group B...so yes, they are getting obliterated 3-0 In the unlikely event that TY wins group B, they could get a nice 3-2 reverse sweep | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 09:10 Zaros wrote: I'd like to see Zest and Scarlett get through but inno has easy first match Inno has easy every match. That was the whole point of him putting so much effort into making this group the way it is. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Bogus 2-0wned LeenockZest 1-2 Scarlett Bogus 2-0wned ScarlettLeenock 2-1 ZestLeenock 2-1 Scarlett I believe in Leenock! | ||
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
Bogus >LeenockZest < ScarlettBogus =ScarlettLeenock> ZestLeenock < ScarlettEdit: I'm on the train to GSL and TL formatting on mobile is impossible | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
INnoVation is actually an autonomous exoskeleton secretly built and piloted by Scarlett. Checkmate, athiests! | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
I fully expect an Inno 1st Zest 2nd finish though. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33197 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Edit: The all in might work. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:19 The_Templar wrote: Roaches only...? AND Ravagers | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
I wonder if Scarlett can't do something similar with greater effect. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:20 The_Templar wrote: Strange unit composition. Do roaches and ravagers actually do OK against marines? Pure marine, sure. With tanks, hell no | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:21 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Pure marine, sure. With tanks, hell no Yeah, I didn't think so. It's a strange choice IMO when you've already seen tanks. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:21 The_Templar wrote: Yeah, I didn't think so. It's a strange choice IMO when you've already seen tanks. Not like he had much choice. Losing so many drones, a failed roach timing, the game was basically over by that point | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:21 The_Templar wrote: Yeah, I didn't think so. It's a strange choice IMO when you've already seen tanks. It was probably still his best option. THere was a high chance Inno would push him again if he tried to go hydras and just kill him. He was pretty dead | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:21 The_Templar wrote: Yeah, I didn't think so. It's a strange choice IMO when you've already seen tanks. well he had already taken a lot of economic damage, i guess he thought it was all or nothing | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
 hope he can bounce back and have a good game or two vs Inno | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:29 pvsnp wrote: Leenock going LBM Scarlett should be watching this game... this is one of her mains strat in tvz iirc | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:33 The_Templar wrote: Honestly I'm pretty sure innovation won that engagement. He 100% did, the lings engaged way too early | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: He 100% did, the lings engaged way too early Yeah tastosis called that wrong for suresies. Lost all of his mutas at the end for no reason | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:40 Charoisaur wrote: Just tuned in, why did Leenock have no Hydras? It was ling/bane/muta. It worked out pretty well though his later engagements were poor and lost him the game. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:40 Charoisaur wrote: Just tuned in, why did Leenock have no Hydras? He's a Korean Zerg. He stubbornly plays ling bane muta despite the fact its terrible | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:40 Charoisaur wrote: Just tuned in, why did Leenock have no Hydras? He tried to surprise Inno with mutas (and succeeded, he sniped Inno's double drop and didn't have to play against any WM). Wasn't enough for him to win, though. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: ins't Maru the player that's been in the most GSLs of the entire ro16? I think ByuN and Maru are the only active players who were in the first GSL season | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:43 Fango wrote: I think ByuN and Maru are the only active players who were in the first GSL season TLO. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Holy shit he actually did. Losira as well | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:45 Fango wrote: I don't see a world where the elite terrans (inno, ty, maru, alive etc) lose to LBM in its current state If they get caught with a bunch of tanks, and their opponent is Dark | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:45 Fango wrote: I don't see a world where the elite terrans (inno, ty, maru, alive etc) lose to LBM in its current state LBM did good for Leenock just now. He was even or even slightly ahead before he starting taking bad engages (and the bad engages weren't because of LBM either). | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:43 Fango wrote: I think ByuN and Maru are the only active players who were in the first GSL season Thank god I'm not going crazy. Also Top was in season 1 | ||
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
edit: i guess she didnt | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
Every game allin with toss unable to defend due to no MSC | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:54 Kommander wrote: Zest looks completely lost in PvZ I wouldn't say that so quickly. It was a pretty short game. | ||
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haik__
5 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:53 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Why 4 oracles though? Wern't the extra 2 built as emergency defense? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:54 Kommander wrote: Zest looks completely lost in PvZ Protoss in general seems lost in PvZ tbh | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:55 haik__ wrote: Wern't the extra 2 built as emergency defense? I think maybe the third one was started before. Not sure; I'd have to rewatch. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:56 Topin wrote: was that eGGz? according to tastosis yes | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:56 Charoisaur wrote: People blame Zest but those allins look way too hard to defend. Like Blink era Possibly Protoss should stop going 1 gate stargate fast expands | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:57 chipmonklord17 wrote: Possibly Protoss should stop going 1 gate stargate fast expands What? Stargate is only the thing to do if you want to have a chance to stop these. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote: What? Stargate is only the thing to do if you want to have a chance to stop these. Its looked to me like no one ever has enough units to defend. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:57 chipmonklord17 wrote: Possibly Protoss should stop going 1 gate stargate fast expands Stargate openers look really risky to me vZ. Personally, I usually open Zealot but, disclaimer, I am the third farthest thing from a professional player. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Its looked to me like no one ever has enough units to defend. If you get a very good read (which can be hard) you can stop basically any early zerg all-in if you open stargate-phoenix-oracle. Anything else is a build order loss to some all-in or the other. | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:53 chipmonklord17 wrote: Didn't she do the exact same thing 3 days ago? | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Protoss are remembering that oracles are good again, be afraid zergs Has knows the true way. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Yes, on the exact same map no less | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:02 Moobutt wrote: Kinda boring that ZvP is just Zerg allin Typical canadian zerg scared of macro games. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 Charoisaur wrote: If she wasn't a foreigner people would call her a cheesy patchzerg who's abusing the current metagame Oh no, she's totally cheesing the hell out of P lately, and when I say lately I mean in the last month or so, but sometimes that's what you gotta do. In another thread somebody pointed out that Scarlett is just doing NoRegret builds, just a lot better. Similar to how Has made a million Oracles a couple patches ago and failed at it before people like Stats started making a million Oracles and winning with it. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
As a Zerg player I got to Diamond as Protoss exclusively using his PvT proxy stargate void ray/tempest build. Has truly knows the way | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Not quite sure what he does in PvZ anymore. He cannon rushes quite a bit, but otherwise it's mostly standard I think. PvT with all the proxy tempests is his interesting match-up nowadays. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:05 pvsnp wrote: Will we finally see some macro from Scarlett? Absolutely not | ||
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VengefulTree
Canada637 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 nimbim wrote: Let's be real, he had only 1 shield battery and 1 pylon powering everything when the all-in came. That's not a balance issue. ^^ pls guys | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:03 chipmonklord17 wrote: As a Zerg player I got to Diamond as Protoss exclusively using his PvT proxy stargate void ray/tempest build. Has truly knows the way Every diamond terran ragequit 30% of their games because of that build | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 nimbim wrote: Let's be real, he had only 1 shield battery and 1 pylon powering everything when the all-in came. That's not a balance issue. People said the same in the blink era. People should just turtle on 2 base with 5 bunkers and tanks every game. Fact is that we see protoss players dying to those allins disproportionaly often. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:05 Fango wrote: Every diamond terran ragequit 30% of their games because of that build I'm like 10-2 with it. One of them I lost straight up and the other my opponent apparently goes 1 base 3 rax marine every TvP. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:05 Fango wrote: Every diamond terran ragequit 30% of their games because of that build My opponents don't rage too often oddly enough after I cheese them that way. They mostly sound disappointed about themselves (especially on Neon Violet after I take the opponent's gold). On February 10 2018 14:06 sashkata wrote: Was that the Harry Potter theme? Yeah. Someone should keep track of all the songs that GSL remixes. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:03 breaker1328 wrote: Oh no, she's totally cheesing the hell out of P lately, and when I say lately I mean in the last month or so, but sometimes that's what you gotta do. In another thread somebody pointed out that Scarlett is just doing NoRegret builds, just a lot better. Similar to how Has made a million Oracles a couple patches ago and failed at it before people like Stats started making a million Oracles and winning with it. Seriously? Of all Protoss players who are forced to go has build because hydra-ling-bane is absurdly strong you choose to mention Stats who used that build the least? If you try to whine at least watch some more games next time. | ||
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HotDOSBuns
Canada172 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:06 sashkata wrote: Was that the Harry Potter theme? I believe that was the theme from Swan Lake, I might be mistaken. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:06 chipmonklord17 wrote: I'm like 10-2 with it. One of them I lost straight up and the other my opponent apparently goes 1 base 3 rax marine every TvP. Honestly the only time I ever beat it was when the protoss was just awful | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:06 pvsnp wrote: Oh hey it's Ascension, I guess GSL didn't update their map pool after all. Weird. Yeah, I mean switching to the new maps wouldn't be a problem at this point, everyone has had enough games on them already. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:06 pvsnp wrote: Oh hey it's Ascension, I guess GSL didn't update their map pool after all. Weird. The finals may be the only chance to ever see Darkness Sanctuary | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:08 HotDOSBuns wrote: I believe that was the theme from Swan Lake, I might be mistaken. There was also a bit of "in the hall of the mountain king" earlier. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:09 Fango wrote: The finals may be the only chance to ever see Darkness Sanctuary We definitely saw it a couple times in the Ro32 | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:08 Fango wrote: Honestly the only time I ever beat it was when the protoss was just awful Honestly I'm a shitty protoss and I win with it THAT much. I don't even think I'm doing it right tbh | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:09 pvsnp wrote: We definitely saw it a couple times in the Ro32 We did?! | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Ok, just once. Inno beat Creator on the very first day of GSL I just doublechecked, it's never been played again | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:09 pvsnp wrote: We definitely saw it a couple times in the Ro32 We saw it exactly once between INno and Creator. It also got played a few times in ONPOONG. I think INno doesn't veto that map, so if he plays another zerg I think we have a good chance of seeing it. | ||
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:06 Charoisaur wrote: People said the same in the blink era. People should just turtle on 2 base with 5 bunkers and tanks every game. Fact is that we see protoss players dying to those allins disproportionaly often. I'm in no position to judge balance in pro games, but I think if the wall is just unable to hold ANY all-in, then there is no basis for doing a balance analysis. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:11 nimbim wrote: I'm in no position to judge balance in pro games, but I think if the wall is just unable to hold ANY all-in, then there is no basis for doing a balance analysis. It's definitely holdable, the issue lies in scouting. Protoss needs near-flawless scouting to defend Zerg all-ins. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Hooray, finally some macro | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:13 Kommander wrote: It's definitely holdable, the issue lies in scouting. Protoss needs near-flawless scouting to defend Zerg all-ins. The issue doesn't lie in scouting. It lies in not being so greedy you make next to no units, and expect to live on one shield battery and a single pylon | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:14 pvsnp wrote: Looks like we're going late Hooray, finally some macro will it end after one big fight though | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:14 chipmonklord17 wrote: The issue doesn't lie in scouting. It lies in not being so greedy you make next to no units, and expect to live on one shield battery and a single pylon Disagree. Scouting is completely key. You either commit hard on the defense to be able to hold, or play as greedy as possible. Going half-an-half just loses to both all-ins and macro. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:16 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Disagree. Scouting is completely key. You either commit hard on the defense to be able to hold, or play as greedy as possible. Going half-an-half just loses to both all-ins and macro. Not building a second pylon isn't being half assed, its being stupid | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:16 chipmonklord17 wrote: by the way this is why Zerg all in all the time Not building a second pylon isn't being half assed, its being stupid Sure (though pylon positions on Neon Violet are rather awkward). He still gets destroyed even with a second pylon there. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
This... is 2018. | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
well played Scarlett!!!! | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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HotDOSBuns
Canada172 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:24 Fango wrote: Everytime I see the corruptor building attack in a pro game it looks so overpowered. It takes too many units to stop them from killing a base. Definitely a bit too strong. Maybe turn down the damage a bit? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:23 chipmonklord17 wrote: After all of the damage Scarlett has been doing, had Zest not blindly moved into lurkers Zest wins No... he was economically screwed and his golden armada only rated bronze. Losing would've just taken longer if he'd micro'ed better. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
"DELETE, DELETE, DELETE" | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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Dastansc2
81 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:24 starkiller123 wrote: zerg is so strong vs p its ridiculous Zest went full NA last game. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:24 Fango wrote: Everytime I see the corruptor building attack in a pro game it looks so overpowered. It takes too many units to stop them from killing a base. Zerg would never build them if we didn't have to though. It's a weird dynamic | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:23 chipmonklord17 wrote: After all of the damage Scarlett has been doing, had Zest not blindly moved into lurkers Zest wins Sure after all how could Protoss not win after the first carrier was made? Zest was just a terrible player who can't even win with the most OP race in the game. | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote: No... he was economically screwed and his golden armada only rated bronze. Losing would've just taken longer if he'd micro'ed better. I don't think she gets her footing back if she loses all of those lurkers without trading them for the ludicrous amount of gateway units she managed to trade for | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:24 Fango wrote: Everytime I see the corruptor building attack in a pro game it looks so overpowered. It takes too many units to stop them from killing a base. Reminds me of WoL mass void ray damage | ||
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:08 yht9657 wrote: Seriously? Of all Protoss players who are forced to go has build because hydra-ling-bane is absurdly strong you choose to mention Stats who used that build the least? If you try to whine at least watch some more games next time. Sorry I'm not gosu nerd, the point is the same, some GSL toss used it to great effect. Next time try educating instead of belittling. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:26 chipmonklord17 wrote: I don't think she gets her footing back if she loses all of those lurkers without trading them for the ludicrous amount of gateway units she managed to trade for She had the money to remax, and all of Zest's hopes were relying on that army which wasn't quite critical mass. Her engagement in the follow-up battle was a bit sloppy too, but she still won handily. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:25 Kommander wrote: To that one dude earlier who said Zerg all in because ZvP lategame is unplayable....Scarlett just proved you wrong lol. Not really. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote: She had the money to remax, and all of Zest's hopes were relying on that army which wasn't quite critical mass. Her engagement in the follow-up battle was a bit sloppy too, but she still won handily. With a better ground army trade I think he could have gotten into a position to beat down reinforcements as they came. Also this. Just because Zest played super sloppy doesn't make ZvP lategame an even playing field. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:28 pvsnp wrote: I'm thinking Scarlett goes for the shitty ravager build at least once here I'm expecting this as well... or some absurdly greedy 3 base all in. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:28 pvsnp wrote: I'm thinking Scarlett goes for the shitty ravager build at least once here Oh God, please no!! | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:33 VHbb wrote: also - why are there 2-3 seconds of Harry potter soundtrack ?? just GSL things | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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franzji
United States581 Posts
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:35 nimbim wrote: I'm really glad we get to see Inno v Scarlett, this is going to be great. As a Scarlett fan, I hope so....but it could also be a complete stomp. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:36 Morbidius wrote: Who called the shitty ravager build? Every starcraft fan heart | ||
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:35 FrkFrJss wrote: As a Scarlett fan, I hope so....but it could also be a complete stomp. Even if she lost, I'd be surprised if the series was bad. Also, I expect her to win the against anyone in the loser's match. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:36 Morbidius wrote: Who called the shitty ravager build? Who is surprised? | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:26 breaker1328 wrote: Sorry I'm not gosu nerd, the point is the same, some GSL toss used it to great effect. Next time try educating instead of belittling. Why bother? Obviously "some GSL toss" (herO, sOs, Classic or Dear) is nobody compared to the great Zerg Queen of Canada. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:34 Mordanis wrote: I'm really excited to see Scarlett against Inno. She's been really dominant against great P's, now we get to see her play against maybe the best T in the world. Her ZvT is rather bad compared to other match-ups. On February 10 2018 14:34 youngjiddle wrote: can most of us agree PvZ is pretty great right now? I think the hydra upgrade nerf was much needed. Now Protoss and Zerg still have so many options in the matchup. Have you not been reading this thread? lol. And having options is exactly the opposite of PvZ--I'm pretty sure it's the match-up with the least variety from either side. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Edit: Well, I guess a marine is the least of his problems. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:39 Topin wrote: ok that was good right? Nah. Scarlett had to kill at least 20 workers to have a chance this game. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:34 youngjiddle wrote: can most of us agree PvZ is pretty great right now? I think the hydra upgrade nerf was much needed. Now Protoss and Zerg still have so many options in the matchup. All the splitting of the upgrades really did was to nerf the 6-7 minute hydra ling timing. Zerg sill has the clear advantage in early-midgame, with the matchup evening out during the lategame. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:40 Charoisaur wrote: Wow so hyped. Winning by cheesing every game I mean, it's working. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7192 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Now if she can win a macro game, oh my god Let's not get ahead of ourselves. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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HotDOSBuns
Canada172 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:43 HotDOSBuns wrote: "I would like to thank my essential coach, NoRegreT." I would love to see this actually happen in the interview. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
Also, I've seen so many cheeses by foreigners where they commit to the aggression too hard and get wrecked by the counter attack. Scarlett is playing the cheese at a level we don't really see as well | ||
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agsub
Singapore368 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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hjkim1304
Korea (South)105 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:43 chipmonklord17 wrote: So extreme hypothetical here. Scarlett (or Major or [insert Non-Korean here]) wins GSL. Then they win foreignerland. Where do they get seeded to Blizzcon from? If you win GSL you get Korean WCS points afaik. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:43 chipmonklord17 wrote: So extreme hypothetical here. Scarlett (or Major or [insert Non-Korean here]) wins GSL. Then they win foreignerland. Where do they get seeded to Blizzcon from? Blizz hasn't planned for that | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:36 yht9657 wrote: Why bother? Obviously "some GSL toss" (herO, sOs, Classic or Dear) is nobody compared to the great Zerg Queen of Canada. What in the fuck are you on about? It was probably sOs, sorry for not knowing that for sure. You can see I'm from Canada so immediately I'm a Scarlett fanboy? And "why bother?" An answer like that is the very reason that people don't like games like LoL or OW. Their fans just get so salty over the smallest of things. I named the wrong player and now I'm not as cool as a hardcore fan of the GSL? Way to grow the game there bud. I feel sorry for you that you are so emotionally invested in Zest that Scarlett beat him by cheese and by macro and you are so upset that you have to be a dick to someone that doesn't know as much as you. Btw, she just cheesed Innovation and won. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:44 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: If you win GSL you get Korean WCS points afaik. Yes that's why I said THEN they win in foreignerland. As in they have points from both, and a seed from both. Do they just go by which ever region you had the higher points from? Not like I see that happening but its a scenario Blizzard should be prepared for. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:45 Fango wrote: I missed that game because I'm falling asleep. I'm assuming bane bust? Ling bust into roach/ling followup. INnoVation lost about 15 workers the first time around and couldn't recover at all. I don't think there were any banelings. | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:43 chipmonklord17 wrote: So extreme hypothetical here. Scarlett (or Major or [insert Non-Korean here]) wins GSL. Then they win foreignerland. Where do they get seeded to Blizzcon from? Probably from foreignerland, but I suspect that would result in a GSL regionlock or a 'pick one or the other' option in the next season. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:46 chipmonklord17 wrote: Yes that's why I said THEN they win in foreignerland. As in they have points from both, and a seed from both. Do they just go by which ever region you had the higher points from? Not like I see that happening but its a scenario Blizzard should be prepared for. You can't really compare points between regions or at least it doesn't make sense to do so. I doubt Blizzard has rules laid out for this contingency considering Blizzard doesn't have clear rules for so many reasonable scenarios. | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7192 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Soke
United States790 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:50 Moobutt wrote: This has gotta be Scarlett's game to lose, right? It would take Tefel to lose this. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Or XiGua. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Her ZvT is rather bad compared to other match-ups. Have you not been reading this thread? lol. And having options is exactly the opposite of PvZ--I'm pretty sure it's the match-up with the least variety from either side. I think Inno might disagree with that statement :D | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
EDIT: LOL | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
damn she is looking good!! GG!!!!! GET REKT MR ROBOT!! | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
I had my all caps ready | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7192 Posts
This has RENEWED MY PASSION FOR STARCRAFT AND MY DISLIKE FOR ALL THINGS TERRAN! | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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MASTERCAKES
United States127 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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HotDOSBuns
Canada172 Posts
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Phantom_Sky
Hong Kong512 Posts
Scarlett beating Zest and 2:0 Innovation First Non-Korean in GLS Ro8 ? WTF??? | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 Phantom_Sky wrote: came back for my first GSL game after 2 year Scarlett beating Zest and 2:0 Innovation First Non-Korean in GLS Ro8 ? WTF??? She's like the 4th? I think. Jinro/Idra/Nani before her | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: I should have believed with my liquibets. One of those bets you're super happy you're wrong Yeah. I have INnoVation and Zest. It's fine though because I'm a fan of all three players. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 pvsnp wrote: The amount of cheese here is disgusting She's good enough to not cheese every game. Vs Inno I think she could have played a standard game with the +1 if Inno hadn't gifted her the easy hellions since I don't think he expected such a no respect style from Scarlett | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 pvsnp wrote: The amount of cheese here is disgusting You'd think that after seeing her cheese out SoS and Zest, Inno would have played that a little safer... | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:56 Mordanis wrote: You'd think that after seeing her cheese out SoS and Zest, Inno would have played that a little safer... It's 2018 and elite Koreans still lose to Has....... | ||
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MASTERCAKES
United States127 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: I should have believed with my liquibets. One of those bets you're super happy you're wrong She's like the 4th? I think. Jinro/Idra/Nani before her MFW people forget about Huk. | ||
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XupinatoR
Spain125 Posts
Congrats Scarlett! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:56 Fango wrote: Everyone in group B will be trying to get 2nd confirmed Watch Leenock cheese out INno with the exact same two builds. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 pvsnp wrote: The amount of cheese here is disgusting So true, these Protoss and Terran players are macro cheesing like crazy today. Glad to see justice served properly. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
this feels like foreigners trolling koreans | ||
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 Charoisaur wrote: If she wasn't a foreigner people would call her a cheesy patchzerg who's abusing the current metagame scarlett a cheesy patchzerg | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:56 Fango wrote: Everyone in group B will be trying to get 2nd confirmed I hope she doesn't get aLive | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
I knew I was forgetting someone. Mana only made RO16 right? | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:56 Mordanis wrote: You'd think that after seeing her cheese out SoS and Zest, Inno would have played that a little safer... Seems like he got cocky like "I'm INNOVATION! There's no way she'd play no respect style like that" And then she had a ton of +1 lings and wrecked him | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:50 Soke wrote: My God, she's such a killer. She's like the culmination of Bly and noregret except with better execution and the capability of transitioning Excellent description! | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:58 Kommander wrote: People here complaining about cheese, but Scarlett's cheeses actually allowed her to macro to insurmountable leads. Most players would cheese and not know how to follow up most of the time. Yeah, I feel like a lesser zerg might have actually fallen apart in game 2 against INnoVation. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:57 Fango wrote: It's 2018 and elite Koreans still lose to Has....... I can't remember the last time Has beat an elite Korean tbh. | ||
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:59 The_Templar wrote: Yeah, I feel like a lesser zerg might have actually fallen apart in game 2 against INnoVation. For instance with Has, a lot of times he can get off to a great cheese start, but because of his lack of experience in macro games, he looses out in macro games. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
"Oh yeah actually I feel more comfortable in my ZvZ, bring it on group B." | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:58 Kommander wrote: People here complaining about cheese, but Scarlett's cheeses actually allowed her to macro to insurmountable leads. Most players would cheese and not know how to follow up most of the time. The games were over after the attacks. A low GM player could've closed that out | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: Hasn't Dark never lost to a foreigner in a series? Or is that someone else? He used to (in offline series), but he lost at Blizzcon. | ||
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MilleudaFolles
26 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:00 FrkFrJss wrote: For instance with Has, a lot of times he can get off to a great cheese start, but because of his lack of experience in macro games, he looses out in macro games. Has being terrible in any semblance of a normal game is part of his appeal, to be honest, but you're right. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:00 asongdotnet wrote: wow... she wants a Zerg for the ro8! dark or soO!!!! Her ZvZ's strong, but yeah Dark and soO are different from the likes of Elazer and Serral IMO. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33197 Posts
it was fucking disgusting cheese. and that's a part of the game, it's fine XD | ||
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MASTERCAKES
United States127 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:58 chipmonklord17 wrote: I knew I was forgetting someone. Mana only made RO16 right? I think he lost in ro32. He was seeded into the up/down matches and won those if I recall correctly. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: Hasn't Dark never lost to a foreigner in a series? Or is that someone else? Correct. Then he got upset eliminated by the SC2 prince Elazer at Blizzcon | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:03 Argonauta wrote: Wow I feel like, GSL masters such Zest and INno arent as used to deal with zerg cheese as us common ladder plebs They are, they just didn't expect to face those kinds of builds in GSL. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:03 Argonauta wrote: Wow I feel like, GSL masters such Zest and INno arent as used to deal with zerg cheese as us common ladder plebs Losing those hellions was very uncharacteristic for INno. He's usually really good at keeping them around. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33197 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:03 Charoisaur wrote: In a BO5 it's harder to beat someone by cheesing every game so it will be tough for her. Especially if koreans start preparing for her tell that to sOs :D | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:00 Charoisaur wrote: The games were over after the attacks. A low GM player could've closed that out I don't think Bly could have closed it out. A low GM would think "I could end this now!" and make more units and die. There's a lot more to it. I've seen a ton of all ins like that against Korean Terrans fail after a massive victory in the initial attack because they have some medivacs and some marines and multitasking of gods | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:02 MASTERCAKES wrote: I think he lost in ro32. He was seeded into the up/down matches and won those if I recall correctly. You are correct. Bless liquipedia having a special 'foreigner' article for GSL | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
Scarlett's played great. Now everyone has to watch out for her early aggressions. | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
In all seriousness, I normally cheer for my Terran brethren, but I had to back my fellow Canadian here. What an absolutely crushing victory by Scarlett. Amazing preparation and execution in both games. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:02 Waxangel wrote: I don't know why ppl are trying to apologize for the cheese. it was fucking disgusting cheese. and that's a part of the game, it's fine XD Sure but it annoys me when people usually hate on players cheesing every game but Scarlett gets a pass because she's a foreigner | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Has anyone made the comparison to Life yet? Because her play is feeling very Life-esque right now Not nearly as fluid but highly aggressive, yes. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:04 Parrek wrote: I don't think Bly could have closed it out. A low GM would think "I could end this now!" and make more units and die. There's a lot more to it. I've seen a ton of all ins like that against Korean Terrans fail after a massive victory in the initial attack because they have some medivacs and some marines and multitasking of gods Please link them by all means, because the leads she got were massive. It would have taken a 1 in a thousand throw for either of those games. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:05 ilikeredheads wrote: Inno couldn't beat ARTOSIS CURSE!! Scarlett's played great. Now everyone has to watch out for her early aggressions. I agree. She has shown she can macro in ZvZ at Pyeongchang and macro in ZvP. She's also shown crazy aggression a lot in both. She's proven she's versatile and nothing is off limits for her | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:06 Charoisaur wrote: Sure but it annoys me when people usually hate on players cheesing every game but Scarlett gets a pass because she's a foreigner Dark often gets a pass too, so it's more a matter of being popular rather than being a foreigner. On February 10 2018 15:07 Parrek wrote: I agree. She has shown she can macro in ZvZ at Pyeongchang and macro in ZvP. She's also shown crazy aggression a lot in both. She's proven she's versatile and nothing is off limits for her Except possibly winning macro ZvTs. | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Please link them by all means, because the leads she got were massive. It would have taken a 1 in a thousand throw for either of those games. I mean, I kind of agree with you to a certain degree, but I have learned from much experience of watching Innovation that his marines are not like other Terran's marines... | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark often gets a pass too, so it's more a matter of being popular rather than being a foreigner. Except possibly winning macro ZvTs. Life also gets a pass | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Has anyone made the comparison to Life yet? Because her play is feeling very Life-esque right now That's just the nostalgia of seeing someone win with ling/bane rushes. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Has anyone made the comparison to Life yet? Because her play is feeling very Life-esque right now Someone else said it in this thread, I think. But I agree. People complain about cheeses, but there's an art to making cheese exciting and skillful looking. Life had it, Slayers_BoxeR had it, Maru had it, MKP sometimes had it, PartinG had it... And I think Scarlett is showing it now. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark often gets a pass too, so it's more a matter of being popular rather than being a foreigner. Except possibly winning macro ZvTs. Sure but for Dark we know that he can take on every player in the world in a macrogame so nobody thinks he doesn't deserve to advance. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:09 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: By the power of 2012! Leenock! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/fishuu/MLGLeenocktopus.jpg) | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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VengefulTree
Canada637 Posts
^^ | ||
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. Many a Korean player has lost games/matches because of arrogance in Code S | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 Charoisaur wrote: Sure but for Dark we know that he can take on every player in the world in a macrogame so nobody thinks he doesn't deserve to advance. Fair. soO also often gets a pass in ZvP though. And he isn't particularly capable of winning macro games in that match-up. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark often gets a pass too, so it's more a matter of being popular rather than being a foreigner. Dark gets a pass because he isn't reliant on it. He's proved he can still win with macro games. People hate the cheesers that only won because they cheesed and not because they're better | ||
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franzji
United States581 Posts
Get over, players play too greedy and you see what happens. If they played safe both series would have look like game 2 of Scarlett vs. Zest. At least some people here give scarlett the credit she deserves, I can't help but think if it was a protoss cheesing they would get less credit. This gives an interesting story line for the rest of these matches.. Go old man Leenock. | ||
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AUGcodon
Canada536 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. Zest definitely did, he opened up w phoenix 3 oracles every game. I do wonder about innovation though, he didn't show any respect at all after losing all his hellions. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:12 Circumstance wrote: The question is how long she can keep up this form. IEM didn't give points, and GSL gives points that are much harder for her to capitalize on. Furthermore ro8 doesn't seed into next season anymore, making it all the more difficult to capitalize on GSL points. Although the argument could definitely be made that a GSL ro8 tier player should eventually make enough points in foreignerland to go to Blizzcon, regardless of if she wins one | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. It's like the Korean teamhouse is paying off for Scarlett. Now that the Koreans don't have teamhouses anymore except maybe jinair, they don't seem to prepare in as much details as before. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:14 chipmonklord17 wrote: Furthermore ro8 doesn't seed into next season anymore, making it all the more difficult to capitalize on GSL points. Although the argument could definitely be made that a GSL ro8 tier player should eventually make enough points in foreignerland to go to Blizzcon, regardless of if she wins one Scarlett has been playing better in Korea than wcs for well over a year now | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. I think Zest prepared he just got unlucky in game 1 and played too sloppy in game 3. Inno looked like he didn't prepare at all. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33197 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:14 chipmonklord17 wrote: Furthermore ro8 doesn't seed into next season anymore, making it all the more difficult to capitalize on GSL points. Although the argument could definitely be made that a GSL ro8 tier player should eventually make enough points in foreignerland to go to Blizzcon, regardless of if she wins one You'd certainly hope so, but Scarlett always seems to falter in WCS. Hopefully these wins here will give her some more confidence. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:16 Waxangel wrote: Look, Maru lost to Has' proxy oracles twice. It might be stupid, but the REALITY is that Koreans can still underestimate foreigners and underprepare, regardless of what they say on the mic. BUT Has didn't win an IEM a few days before | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
There is no TvZ god after all? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:16 Waxangel wrote: Look, Maru lost to Has' proxy oracles twice. It might be stupid, but the REALITY is that Koreans can still underestimate foreigners and underprepare, regardless of what they say on the mic. Maru is on another level of yolo when he faces players that he thinks are worse than he is. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:14 chipmonklord17 wrote: Furthermore ro8 doesn't seed into next season anymore, making it all the more difficult to capitalize on GSL points. Although the argument could definitely be made that a GSL ro8 tier player should eventually make enough points in foreignerland to go to Blizzcon, regardless of if she wins one Her results in Liepzig really started things off with a pretty significant handicap, though. We have to remember how few opportunities there are per year. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:20 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Zest's ZvP builds are weird. so are Leenocks tbh EDIT: carrier? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:23 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Mutas? What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck ByuL tactics | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:15 argonautdice wrote: It's like the Korean teamhouse is paying off for Scarlett. Now that the Koreans don't have teamhouses anymore except maybe jinair, they don't seem to prepare in as much details as before. Jinair isn't performing any better than anyone else so I don't think that's it. Remember, the Koreans should still know how to prepare and analyze. They still have many many years experience ahead of the foreign scene. I don't think it was a "Foreign Teamhouse OP" thing and just a "I'm INNO and I won't lose to a foreign Zerg no matter what" | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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Jacenoob
299 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:18 Poopi wrote: INno lost to Scarlett what? How is that possible ? There is no TvZ god after all? Maru TvZ best TvZ | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:24 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That didn't make any sense. I hope INnoVation gets a grip and spares us future headaches. I mean Inno spanked Leenock so hard there is no grip to get. Should be a pretty clean victory for the machine | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:24 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That didn't make any sense. I hope INnoVation gets a grip and spares us future headaches. Nah, it makes perfect sense. Inno is a greedy player and he also has a tendency to get arrogant, then complacent because of that arrogance. He used the same greedy build twice in a row, and Scarlett hardcountered it with cheese. On February 10 2018 15:25 chipmonklord17 wrote: I mean Inno spanked Leenock so hard there is no grip to get. Should be a pretty clean victory for the machine Leenock didn't go for super early cheese twice in a row. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:25 chipmonklord17 wrote: I mean Inno spanked Leenock so hard there is no grip to get. Should be a pretty clean victory for the machine It absolutely should, but I'm worried regardless. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:26 pvsnp wrote: Nah, it makes perfect sense. Inno is a greedy player and he also has a tendency to get arrogant, then complacent because of that arrogance. He used the same greedy build twice in a row, and Scarlett hardcountered it with cheese. Leenock didn't go for super early cheese twice in a row. Game 2 was potentially holdable if INno didn't untypically lose the hellions for nothing I think. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
EDIT: Or not | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Game 2 was potentially holdable if INno didn't untypically lose the hellions for nothing I think. Yeah, that was something I think Scarlett could have played normally if she hadn't got the surround. Still, he expected to get out and maybe he would have gotten out with a few if they didn't die extra quick to +1 lings | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:31 Argonauta wrote: Leenock is like, well If scarlett can do it I can do it too It also emphasizes how well Scarlett does it | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: This is the difference between NoRegret coaching and not And also not targeting the lone pylon fast enough | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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franzji
United States581 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:29 chipmonklord17 wrote: oh look, another protoss who could die to 1 pylon powering their wall EDIT: Or not he could have just shield batteried it if it got attacked. | ||
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haik__
5 Posts
(edit: oh no, there was one in G1) | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1995 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33197 Posts
hostile takeover incoming | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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peanuts
United States1225 Posts
Feels like high school, feels good man. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:54 sashkata wrote: I am worried about Inno Zest doesn't really look frightening | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: This is the difference between NoRegret coaching and not Veni, Vidi, Vici. The Elephant (Umpleby Coaching™) in the Room 2.0 | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:59 Mordanis wrote: You know it's a crazy game when there's a fight between just 3 carriers with 5 interceptors total and 4 broods. Just good game :-) | ||
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Can someone English this for us? https://twitter.com/LeenockfOu/status/962220280415318016 Despite the 58% Z v P winrate, It appears I need to appeal to NoRegret for coaching. Not serious btw | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:04 HoldenC23 wrote: Anyone else find those leather jacket pictures they show before every GSL match this season to be very awkward for almost every player? Zest looks hot af | ||
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franzji
United States581 Posts
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:04 FataLe wrote: Despite the 58% Z v P winrate, It appears I need to appeal to NoRegret for coaching. That's the translation? That is freaking awesome. I don't generally like zerg players, but Leenock gained a fan for me haha | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:07 HoldenC23 wrote: That's the translation? That is freaking awesome. I don't generally like zerg players, but Leenock gained a fan for me haha Sorry man, it isn't. I was just being playful, i'll go back and edit :D | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Can someone English this for us? https://twitter.com/LeenockfOu/status/962220280415318016 ㅋㅋ No real money three, Obajing Doratman Not the best translation by google translator | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:13 Diabolique wrote: ㅋㅋ No real money three, Obajing Doratman Not the best translation by google translator Brilliant. Inno ded btw | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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franzji
United States581 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:14 Argonauta wrote: its crazy how mines have switched for being the meta in TvZ to be the meta in TvP They were always the meta in tvp since the +shield patch... | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:16 Charoisaur wrote: They were always the meta in tvp since the +shield patch... Now are crazy important before they were a side addition | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:17 Inflicted wrote: Everythings lining up for a soO finals again and we all know how those end | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:17 Charoisaur wrote: If Inno doesn't get out of the easiest group... Then we can officially say INnoVation only wins when Terran is strong ? | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:19 Circumstance wrote: Kept Zest, swapped Dear with aLive. Sometimes you play 4D chess and lose at tic-tac-toe. | ||
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Sometimes you play 4D chess and lose at tic-tac-toe. I'll say this much, it's a very interesting iteration of the TL Writers' curse. | ||
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
edit: Those two mines were the first ones to do anything at all for him. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
innovation is still making plays | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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franzji
United States581 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7192 Posts
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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Kaizor
Singapore909 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:31 Inflicted wrote: Win your group and 2 ZvPs in a row, easy path for soO Only to lose to Scarlett in the finals | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
his P v T is god tier and shit tier simultaneously dat dere super position form | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol Yeah... he "forgot" | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
Oh, and amazing performance by Scarlett once again!!! She has the most amazing week from her career, hopefully she can finish her run in style | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol If by "forgot" you mean "went for a 3 base all-in" then yeah. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol He went for a fake third 2 base all-in, never went past 47 scvs and only 1 eng bay. | ||
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol Yeah he should have used his scans on those upgrades lol | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol It's not forgetting, it's going all-in. Very popular to go for a 1/1 all-in in TvP these days, for better or worse | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13968 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:33 Kommander wrote: You can't even blame that on balance or whatever, Inno got tunnel vision and forgot his upgrades lol What happened to Inno in game two is almost akin to what Scarlett didn't do in in game two. Inno kept attacking even though he was losing units and upgrades, and I think Inno did have a bit of an advantage earlier. Instead of macroing up and getting more ahead, he focused on going for the kill. Similarly, Scarlett didn't keep attacking and trying to kill Innovation but instead macroed up won with with a massive supply lead. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Will TY be our savior or is there another top terran in ro16? | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:36 FrkFrJss wrote: What happened to Inno in game two is almost akin to what Scarlett didn't do in in game two. Inno kept attacking even though he was losing units and upgrades, and I think Inno did have a bit of an advantage earlier. Instead of macroing up and getting more ahead, he focused on going for the kill. Similarly, Scarlett didn't keep attacking and trying to kill Innovation but instead macroed up won with with a massive supply lead. Innovation was never once ahead in workers, and the only reason he was able to get that big of an army was by cutting workers and upgrades in order to hit that timing. I don't see where he was ever ahead lol. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13968 Posts
On February 10 2018 14:55 chipmonklord17 wrote: I should have believed with my liquibets. One of those bets you're super happy you're wrong She's like the 4th? I think. Jinro/Idra/Nani before her 5th. Huk did it too | ||
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:37 Poopi wrote: INno lost how is that possible ? Will TY be our savior or is there another top terran in ro16? Invisible man will quietly make his way to the finals | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:37 Poopi wrote: INno lost how is that possible ? Will TY be our savior or is there another top terran in ro16? Maru? Is he top tier nowadays? | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:37 juicyjames wrote: Any recommended matches? It's really hard to say in this group. All the matches were really that good. Scarlett v Zest first match was great, as was Zest v Inno decider's match despite the 2-0. Scarlett v Inno was great for foreign fans, and it just showed off Scarlett's early game domination (not that she's bad in macro games either). Leenock showed well vs Zest in the losers match as well. I missed the first match (Inno v Leenock). | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
Maru has to face the best Tosses in his way out the group and then in the playoffs | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:38 Inflicted wrote: Invisible man will quietly make his way to the finals So no terran in the ro8 | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:37 juicyjames wrote: Any recommended matches? Scarlett vs Zest Game 3 was pretty interesting Leenock vs Zest Game 3 was cool too | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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YourFavoriteTerran
33 Posts
TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Just fuck up my liquibet fam I mean... who betted Scarlett and Zest? Even the Scarlett fans probably betted Inno. Unless you went Inno/Leenock it should be fine | ||
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Zephyp
238 Posts
Really happy for Scarlett! First IEM and now Ro8 in GSL. This highly aggressive zerg style makes me think of Life. Don't think I remember seeing this much early aggression for years. Not trying to poke fun at Innovation with this picture, but more a happy moment for Scarlett. This is after Scarlett had harassed Innovation into a pretty clear loss in game one: Artosis' comment was: "Look at Innovations face!" ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wBbBHUm.jpg) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. Are you complaining that the shitty ravager rush is too strong? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 Charoisaur wrote: I mean... who betted Scarlett and Zest? Even the Scarlett fans probably betted Inno. Unless you went Inno/Leenock it should be fine I totally betted Inno/Zest lol, it was before she won IEM If I had bet Scarlett in both rounds I'd be in first place right now RIP | ||
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TanksALot
United States153 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I totally betted Inno/Zest lol, it was before she won IEM If I had bet Scarlett in both rounds I'd be in first place right now RIP You would've betted Zest over Inno? | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. Sounds like you don't watch the many many many TvZs where Zerg goes for a ravager all in, does nothing, and dies in a few minutes because they have drones, but a weak low tech army and no upgrades vs 1-1 stim and medivacs. Also, your Top 50 Terran sounds terrible or spams one build and ladders a ton as that would get you there as well | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Meh, probably not actually, so maybe I would only be tied | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. I think you're looking at the game's past through rose-coloured glasses, honestly. I like SC2 and have been following it from the beta, but it has always had some frustrating design choices, IMO. It's gone through a lot of phases where certain strategies or certain units have looked really messed up, and it's always been more rock-paper-scissorsy than BW. The ever changing nature of the game frustrates me because players come to really dominate under certain conditions and then have the rug pulled out from under them by a new patch (which usually seems to present a new set of issues), but on the other hand, it seems like a reasonable compromise way of not having to basically re-design the game from the ground up... Anyway, all this is to say that I really don't think that the frustration you're venting describes anything new going on here--I don't think there are glory days to look back to on this front. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. did you watch any of the games today? i'm not sure why you're here if you're not going to talk about the games because they didn't look the way you portray it in your post. i'm going to go out on a limb and just say that you don't understand the intricacies of what the professionals are doing. for example, innovation lost vs scarlett in a zergling baneling followup to losing his hellions. there's 2 or three variations to that attack. you can load 4 hellions in a medivac and rally 2 hellions to kill drones at the third, or you can attack like what he did with 1 reaper and 4 hellions. the other variations involve hellbat (armory) or simply waiting for more hellions. scarlett's build was very obviously catered to that in games 1 and 2 (which is quite frankly meta in NA that i know of). there is risk reward and blind knowhow to that. if innovation plays absolutely safe (which he didn't, even if he didn't CC first) the chances to him being slightly ahead playing standard is very high. this is owed to scarlett's adaptation and experience, and conversely, innovation not doing the same. what part of any of that is rock papers scissors? it's all decision-making, as zest recalls in his interview about his games vs Z (scarlett). the point is, both sides of the matchup can reasonably win, and inaction in the game punishes you if you're trying to play certain styles. i think this is what most newer players with this game struggle with. they build a composition, but they don't explore their other options in the process. in zest's games for example especially towards the end of the scarlett series, he didn't use his many options at that point in the game. he didn't have DT tech, did not have a warp prism out, didn't rid creep (though that part more understandable), and he didn't shed his army composition of the zealots for stalkers, archons, or more carriers until it was too late to. now if you look at his games vs leenock he makes that adjustment. in fact in the last game they play where it goes to late game (mothership included), he does everything i mentioned above and manages to harass and defend at the same time while building a bulkier unit composition because his zealots were long traded away. maybe by playing the game yourself you would very quickly regain your sense of awe, because none of what you're watching is easy, and non-championship contending players still wipe the floor with everyone who is under-prepared. more importantly, you're invested as a spectator because you know their positions are difficult and look forward to seeing what they adapt to turn it around. the game is very taxing these days and these are not stupid herp derp players who hotkey their stargates and press the carrier hotkey, contrary to back in the day we'd essentially hit DD-aaaaaaaaaa and stim on our opponents side of the map. it's hard to accept change if you're not there to try changing with it. in my opinion, the game is the most dynamic it has been and deserves to be called a difficult RTS. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:54 neutralrobot wrote: I think you're looking at the game's past through rose-coloured glasses, honestly. I like SC2 and have been following it from the beta, but it has always had some frustrating design choices, IMO. It's gone through a lot of phases where certain strategies or certain units have looked really messed up, and it's always been more rock-paper-scissorsy than BW. The ever changing nature of the game frustrates me because players come to really dominate under certain conditions and then have the rug pulled out from under them by a new patch (which usually seems to present a new set of issues), but on the other hand, it seems like a reasonable compromise way of not having to basically re-design the game from the ground up... Anyway, all this is to say that I really don't think that the frustration you're venting describes anything new going on here--I don't think there are glory days to look back to on this front. By "glory days" he means "times when Terran was OP". | ||
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SlammerIV
United States526 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. In retrospect it sort of feels like Inno especially did not give her enough respect, his opening were one dimensional and greedy. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
Very exciting games gg Scarlett and Zest for advancing! I'd have liked to have Innovation in the next round, TvX are always good matchups, but I cannot complain honestly. I hadn't watched SC2 in a while, but after IEM and this GSL round, I must say the game seems in quite a good spot, very enjoyable. gg | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:56 SlammerIV wrote: In retrospect it sort of feels like Inno especially did not give her enough respect, his opening were one dimensional and greedy. Absolutely. It was supposed to be an easy group for Inno. With his insane TvZ winrate, he probably expected to get out over Leenock and Scarlett without any study. Then he could focus all his time studying his possible Ro8 opponents | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 17:20 Tyrhanius wrote: Omg i wake up and see Scarlett first and innovation eliminated, what's happenned ? Coach NoRegret found a way... | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 17:20 Tyrhanius wrote: Omg i wake up and see Scarlett first and innovation eliminated, what's happenned ? Scarlett had super solid cheeses. However, she also had solid transitions and never once fell into the trap of constantly attacking. All thanks to NoRegret giving her build ideas that she executed to their full potential. She won one cheese and a macro vs Zest, then cheesed Inno and then did a +1 ling timing and gobbled up his hellions and followed up with a bane bust. It didn't end right there, but Inno was mostly crippled and Scarlett had like 50 drones and good creep. She almost threw her advantage in a weird base trade sorta situation, but she was never really in a danger of losing. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18339 Posts
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Kitai
United States869 Posts
With her recent string of high caliber victories (Serral, Elazer, sOs, Rogue, Zest, innovation), it seems like she's finally reached Neeb levels of "foreigner on fire." | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Fyzar
Netherlands8010 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On February 10 2018 17:20 Tyrhanius wrote: Omg i wake up and see Scarlett first and innovation eliminated, what's happenned ? Inno and Zest making a ton of mistakes. | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
Inno in those games against Scarlett actually make minimum mistakes but he played too greedy to hold that pressure | ||
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On February 10 2018 18:58 Shellshock wrote: Scarlett literally GOAT GFOAT At this point she has a pretty decent case. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
but gratz | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 10 2018 19:00 Vindicare605 wrote: GFOAT At this point she has a pretty decent case. No | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 06:22 Pandemona wrote: Poll: Who Advances Group A? INnoVation & Scarlett (37) Zest & INnoVation (17) Scarlet & Zest (14) Leenock & INnoVation (7) Leenock & Scarlett (3) Zest & Leenock (2) 80 total votes Your vote: Who Advances Group A? (Vote): INnoVation & Scarlett Boy, did we fuck this one up | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
GG | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Vanillatoss
76 Posts
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Zephyp
238 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:53 Charoisaur wrote: Now Inno can focus on Katowice. Easy 100k up for grabs. He's tired of collecting all those small checks. Not saying it's the case with Innovation, but I wonder if some Koreans focus less on GSL and more on the big tournaments if such a conflict happened. GSL has always been where the best of the best is decided and a prestigious tournament, but with the money prizes in the top tournaments the last years, GSL doesn't give a tremendous payout compared to the time invested. WESG: $200 000 first prize IEM Katowice: $100 000 first prize PeyongChang: $50 000 first prize GSL: $37 518 first prize On February 10 2018 19:47 Vanillatoss wrote: I wonder what kind of an argument pvnsp is going to provide to make Scarlett's win less important or glorious than it really is... Obvious is it not? She beat Rogue because he's not playing well and she beat sOs because ZvP is unbalanced. When she beat the terran Innovation...well yeah. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On February 10 2018 20:33 Zephyp wrote: Not saying it's the case with Innovation, but I wonder if some Koreans focus less on GSL and more on the big tournaments if such a conflict happened. GSL has always been where the best of the best is decided and a prestigious tournament, but with the money prizes in the top tournaments the last years, GSL doesn't give a tremendous payout compared to the time invested. WESG: $200 000 first prize IEM Katowice: $100 000 first prize PeyongChang: $50 000 first prize GSL: $37 518 first prize Obvious is it not? She beat Rogue because he's not playing well and she beat sOs because ZvP is unbalanced. When she beat the terran Innovation...well yeah. Innovation playing like dogshit? | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Gurbak
France622 Posts
On February 10 2018 19:47 Vanillatoss wrote: I wonder what kind of an argument pvnsp is going to provide to make Scarlett's win less important or glorious than it really is... the imagination of koreans elitist to minimize foreigners victories always amaze me here even if she wins the tournament they will find a way to say it's not really a victory | ||
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lechatnoir
383 Posts
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Ace Frehley
2030 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On February 10 2018 22:20 Ace Frehley wrote: Innovation was saving his builds for the raven cup, he didn't care about GSL /jk Currently down 0-1 to DIMAGA. Get him into the RO8! | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On February 10 2018 09:10 Zaros wrote: I'd like to see Zest and Scarlett get through but inno has easy first match I am happy | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 19:47 Vanillatoss wrote: I wonder what kind of an argument pvnsp is going to provide to make Scarlett's win less important or glorious than it really is... I'm assuming because she cheesed Inno and ZvP is broken | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On February 10 2018 22:28 Golgotha wrote: with the way scarlett is playing now, does she stand a better chance than when huk, jinro, and idra got this far? HuK lost to MVP, the eventual winner of that season, but they only played bo1 in the ro32, and the ro16 was a ro3. IdrA and Jinro played bo1s in their ro32/16, and Jinro won against IdrA before eventually losing against Marineking, the runner-up. So Scarlett could lose to the ro4/second place/first place finisher in the ro8. I think the difference between HuK or Jinro and the people who beat them is larger than the gap between Scarlett and the current Korean pros. | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 10 2018 23:26 Makro wrote: holy shit what a timeline, zest is truly back and scarlett is above koreans I don't think either of those things are true. And I'm a lifelong zest and Scarlett fanboy | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On February 10 2018 23:08 FrkFrJss wrote: HuK lost to MVP, the eventual winner of that season, but they only played bo1 in the ro32, and the ro16 was a ro3. IdrA and Jinro played bo1s in their ro32/16, and Jinro won against IdrA before eventually losing against Marineking, the runner-up. So Scarlett could lose to the ro4/second place/first place finisher in the ro8. I think the difference between HuK or Jinro and the people who beat them is larger than the gap between Scarlett and the current Korean pros. thanks for explaining. what about when naniwa got this far in the gsl? does scarlett stand a better chance than him? | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Seeing her win aggression is very interesting, as usually it's the other way around and Koreans stomp foreigners with aggression instead. | ||
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Sokokrey
74 Posts
Scarlett is really on fire, go for this trophy!!! | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
So Nice to see that after all these years she is still improving! | ||
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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Kitai
United States869 Posts
On February 11 2018 00:50 Golgotha wrote: thanks for explaining. what about when naniwa got this far in the gsl? does scarlett stand a better chance than him? That one is a tougher call. I think naniwa was closer in skill to top Koreans in his prime than any other foreigner in the GSL. He was like rank 2 or 3 on KR ladder at the time, which is actually a somewhat useful measurement of ability regardless of tournament results. | ||
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
On February 11 2018 02:27 Kitai wrote: That one is a tougher call. I think naniwa was closer in skill to top Koreans in his prime than any other foreigner in the GSL. He was like rank 2 or 3 on KR ladder at the time, which is actually a somewhat useful measurement of ability regardless of tournament results. I could be wrong but I think Neeb has been up there as well (top 3 on KR ladder). I don't think Scarlett's success can be that easily dismissed, she has been huge on the rush strategies last night but she can macro out of almost anything which is what makes her so dangerous. | ||
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
On February 10 2018 22:28 Golgotha wrote: with the way scarlett is playing now, does she stand a better chance than when huk, jinro, and idra got this far? I didn't start really watching Starcraft until 2015ish but I'd have to say results near the start of SC2 were far more unpredictable than nowadays based on what I've seen from looking at results. Early days it was more all over the place in builds and strategy. Whether that makes it more impressive for Scarlett now, I can't truly say. But I do think it was easier to surprise with builds in early days with those guys, IMO. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 11 2018 03:13 HoldenC23 wrote: I didn't start really watching Starcraft until 2015ish but I'd have to say results near the start of SC2 were far more unpredictable than nowadays based on what I've seen from looking at results. Early days it was more all over the place in builds and strategy. Whether that makes it more impressive for Scarlett now, I can't truly say. But I do think it was easier to surprise with builds in early days with those guys, IMO. Also, you can't forget that most of those results were pre kespa. This is post kespa, but we're still feeling the influence of kespa on the scene | ||
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monkeyfetus
United States350 Posts
On February 10 2018 21:32 Gurbak wrote: the imagination of koreans elitist to minimize foreigners victories always amaze me here even if she wins the tournament they will find a way to say it's not really a victory IMO, a big part of it is that Scarlett's skill at multi-pronged harrass taxes her opponent's micro and invites mistakes. When she forces errors and skillfully capitalizes on her opponents mistakes (forced or unforced), her detractors then point to that to cheapen her victory, instead of as evidence of her skill. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On February 11 2018 03:07 HoldenC23 wrote: I could be wrong but I think Neeb has been up there as well (top 3 on KR ladder). I don't think Scarlett's success can be that easily dismissed, she has been huge on the rush strategies last night but she can macro out of almost anything which is what makes her so dangerous. KR ladder was far stronger back then tho iirc | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Now sure what that's actually about | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 11 2018 05:27 monkeyfetus wrote: IMO, a big part of it is that Scarlett's skill at multi-pronged harrass taxes her opponent's micro and invites mistakes. When she forces errors and skillfully capitalizes on her opponents mistakes (forced or unforced), her detractors then point to that to cheapen her victory, instead of as evidence of her skill. Lol how much multipronged harass went into roach rushing or baneling busting? People detract from Scarlett's victories because she used cheese in most of the games, and zerg in general is very strong right now. Don't make up reasons to try and make Scarlett's win seem more deserverd. Of course she deserved to win, she played very well, but at least be honest about it. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On February 11 2018 06:16 Fango wrote: Lol how much multipronged harass went into roach rushing or baneling busting? People detract from Scarlett's victories because she used cheese in most of the games, and zerg in general is very strong right now. Don't make up reasons to try and make Scarlett's win seem more deserverd. Of course she deserved to win, she played very well, but at least be honest about it. yeah pretty much this | ||
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monkeyfetus
United States350 Posts
On February 11 2018 06:16 Fango wrote: Lol how much multipronged harass went into roach rushing or baneling busting? People detract from Scarlett's victories because she used cheese in most of the games, and zerg in general is very strong right now. Don't make up reasons to try and make Scarlett's win seem more deserverd. Of course she deserved to win, she played very well, but at least be honest about it. Yeah, yeah, when she wins short games it's because she's a dirty cheeser and when she wins long games it's because her opponents are bad. Whatever. The results speak for themselves. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1739 Posts
On February 11 2018 06:16 Fango wrote: Lol how much multipronged harass went into roach rushing or baneling busting? People detract from Scarlett's victories because she used cheese in most of the games, and zerg in general is very strong right now. Don't make up reasons to try and make Scarlett's win seem more deserverd. Of course she deserved to win, she played very well, but at least be honest about it. If you are in the GSL and have trouble holding ladder cheeses then it's your problem, not the cheeser's. It's similar to how Koreans used to play versus foreigners, with lots of aggression and cheese because foreigner micro/macro was not up to par. If Zest/Innovation wanted to beat Scarlett in a long game, they should've done a better job preparing versus cheese. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 11 2018 06:33 monkeyfetus wrote: Yeah, yeah, when she wins short games it's because she's a dirty cheeser and when she wins long games it's because her opponents are bad. Whatever. The results speak for themselves. If the results speak for themselves why do you have to make up some trash about her multipronged harass forcing mistakes? It's actually baffling why so many people are denying that Scarlett cheesed to win. There's nothing wrong with cheesing, the aim is to win not to play a normal game. On February 11 2018 06:39 phodacbiet wrote: If you are in the GSL and have trouble holding ladder cheeses then it's your problem, not the cheeser's. It's similar to how Koreans used to play versus foreigners, with lots of aggression and cheese because foreigner micro/macro was not up to par. If Zest/Innovation wanted to beat Scarlett in a long game, they should've done a better job preparing versus cheese. What relevence does that have? I never said Scarlett didn't play well or deserve to win. My only issue is with those that claim Scarlett didn't cheese and won with superior macro/multitasking or whatever | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Starecat
934 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/flUnwg1.png) Impressive. | ||
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LordYama
United States370 Posts
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Kitai
United States869 Posts
On February 11 2018 03:07 HoldenC23 wrote: I could be wrong but I think Neeb has been up there as well (top 3 on KR ladder). I don't think Scarlett's success can be that easily dismissed, she has been huge on the rush strategies last night but she can macro out of almost anything which is what makes her so dangerous. I agree and wasn't dismissing her by any means. She also doesn't suffer from the "one build to rule them all" type of play that hindered naniwa from accomplishing more than he did. My concern for her further advancement is that soO, Dark, and TY are all crazy Korean powerhouses right now, and aLive just seems to have her number for some reason. She has to beat one of them to move on. My personal fairy tale for this GSL is for soO to win his group and meet her in the finals. | ||
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
On February 10 2018 13:59 Charoisaur wrote: If she wasn't a foreigner people would call her a cheesy patchzerg who's abusing the current metagame LOL | ||
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
On February 11 2018 06:41 Fango wrote: If the results speak for themselves why do you have to make up some trash about her multipronged harass forcing mistakes? It's actually baffling why so many people are denying that Scarlett cheesed to win. There's nothing wrong with cheesing, the aim is to win not to play a normal game. What relevence does that have? I never said Scarlett didn't play well or deserve to win. My only issue is with those that claim Scarlett didn't cheese and won with superior macro/multitasking or whatever I just got to point out that "Cheese" has grown to pretty much mean "this player is attacking the other player before 7 minutes" and by that definition, Scarlett cheesed so much. In reality, she was very aggressive, and put herelf in a position where she probably needed to damage her opponent to not get behind. Never did it seem that she was 100% "ALL IN" despite what commentators may say. Truth be told, every time someone builds army-units, they have to do something with them in order to justify them or else they are "behind". The reason why I don't feel like Scarlett (or most players honestly) was super cheesy was because even when her quick aggression failed to kill her opponent, she was already building more workers and had a large advantage. This often appeared to be her plan all along. I think she had much more strategy than just thinking in her head, "imma build a ton of roaches early and kill his wall.... lol zerg is so strong!" I really enjoy watching zerg players be more aggressive and take control of the game rather than being the "reactionary" race. I have a feeling people will start to see that a zerg attacking early game might be a very solid economic build and not just a cheese (ie. forcing the other player not to harass and thus letting the zerg macro up behind before they are able to know if it is a more committed attack or just a feint.) | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
But i won't say PvZ is balanced currently | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On February 11 2018 07:10 KelsierSC wrote: I think scarlett has the best vest 5 change of a foreign galaxy win because there is no Korean where I'm like. Oh shit that Korean analises scarlett. Like mc did to jinro.i think she can beat anyone with no fear. That mech game on Scrap Station though, what a game! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Region lock needed. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On February 11 2018 19:37 deacon.frost wrote: And Scarlett is taking more and more Korean money while Koreans cannot into WCS Region lock needed.This is exactly why I cheered against Major despite the fact that I kinda like him, and hope that Scarlett will get eliminated. Region lock is so stupid. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
Still I find it hard to do not notice that the results might have been affected by current balance which is a bit sad cause honestly I do not want to belittle players achievements but this is the feeling I got watching the games. Anyway still really well played and good luck in further stages | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 11 2018 10:56 MaxField wrote: I just got to point out that "Cheese" has grown to pretty much mean "this player is attacking the other player before 7 minutes" and by that definition, Scarlett cheesed so much. In reality, she was very aggressive, and put herelf in a position where she probably needed to damage her opponent to not get behind. Never did it seem that she was 100% "ALL IN" despite what commentators may say. Truth be told, every time someone builds army-units, they have to do something with them in order to justify them or else they are "behind". The reason why I don't feel like Scarlett (or most players honestly) was super cheesy was because even when her quick aggression failed to kill her opponent, she was already building more workers and had a large advantage. This often appeared to be her plan all along. I think she had much more strategy than just thinking in her head, "imma build a ton of roaches early and kill his wall.... lol zerg is so strong!" I really enjoy watching zerg players be more aggressive and take control of the game rather than being the "reactionary" race. I have a feeling people will start to see that a zerg attacking early game might be a very solid economic build and not just a cheese (ie. forcing the other player not to harass and thus letting the zerg macro up behind before they are able to know if it is a more committed attack or just a feint.) A cheese is any strategy that aims to end the game very quickly. Roach rushes and baneling busts are outright cheese/very allin. The fact the games didn't technically end after woods is irrelevant, she was like 40 workers to 10 in most cases. The games were over. She's literally using Noregret's builds in most her games. Are you telling me he isn't cheesy either? | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On February 11 2018 23:25 Fango wrote: A cheese is any strategy that aims to end the game very quickly. Roach rushes and baneling busts are outright cheese/very allin. The fact the games didn't technically end after woods is irrelevant, she was like 40 workers to 10 in most cases. The games were over. She's literally using Noregret's builds in most her games. Are you telling me he isn't cheesy either? But it's not Noregret who used them so people are acting like it was a revolution | ||
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
Great games, Scarlett. | ||
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Dirt McGirt
New Zealand129 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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nick00bot
326 Posts
It's so damn toxic | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
Let's win the GSL! | ||
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00jknight
7 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
Region lock please!! Oh wait... | ||
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sharkie
Austria18339 Posts
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 11 2018 19:40 Mun_Su wrote: This is exactly why I cheered against Major despite the fact that I kinda like him, and hope that Scarlett will get eliminated. Region lock is so stupid. I know and I would love to see it canceled too, but I don't think they will implement it soon enough. | ||
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buffzerg33
96 Posts
So happy for her......you go girl dont stop. Bravo. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 12 2018 11:38 00jknight wrote: I stole Inno's 3 base build but I go into 2/2 and then 3/3 off of it. Not sure why he doesn't do that. Seems straight up better. Every time I've seen the 1/1 all in I cringe. It's not good. It hasn't worked since WOL. Really confused why he'd not go into 2/2 and a fourth base. It's easy for P to defend 3 bases against drops. Force P to take 4/5 bases and then try to snipe the forges. If you get the forges, you win. That's a different build. If you go for further upgrades and a 4th you need to build more than 46 workers and then it's a completely different strategy. Inno chose to commit to a 3 base allin. Whether it's good or not I can't say but he obviously has his reasons to do it. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On February 12 2018 22:01 Charoisaur wrote: That's a different build. If you go for further upgrades and a 4th you need to build more than 46 workers and then it's a completely different strategy. Inno chose to commit to a 3 base allin. Whether it's good or not I can't say but he obviously has his reasons to do it. He got a lot of success with that build againt protoss.But no build could last 4ever Zest prepared well against him. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote: so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans" now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly | ||
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sharkie
Austria18339 Posts
On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote: Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly Scarlett has made her career beating Koreans in macro. It was the koreans who started and kept cheesing scarlett to avoid having macro games with her. | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote: Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime | ||
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
Let's not forget that Scarlett's micro was incredibly on point | ||
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening? | ||
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Vanillatoss
76 Posts
Id call cheese: 1. cannon rush.. 2. proxy hatch.. or even proxy barracks 3. fast DT 4. to some extend 1 base all-in everything else is pretty much just aggressive play that can win or not the game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 13 2018 02:50 sharkie wrote: Scarlett has made her career beating Koreans in macro. It was the koreans who started and kept cheesing scarlett to avoid having macro games with her. Right, koreans were afraid of playing Scarlett in a macro game... Keep dreaming. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15879 Posts
On February 13 2018 03:33 geokilla wrote: Lol at people playing down her results cus she cheesed. So what if she did? It's part of the game. Yeah I dislike getting cheesed too but it's part of the game. It's not like Blizzard is making you play macro games only. Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening? Nobody says she doesn't deserve to advance .She won so of course she does. People are doubting if she has the skill to compete with the top players in the long run. Stealing a series win with cheese doesn't prove anything indicating that. Remember Ragnarok cheesing out INnoVation and ByuN? Where is he now? | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On February 13 2018 04:06 Charoisaur wrote: Nobody says she doesn't deserve to advance .She won so of course she does. People are doubting if she has the skill to compete with the top players in the long run. Stealing a series win with cheese doesn't prove anything indicating that. Remember Ragnarok cheesing out INnoVation and ByuN? Where is he now? Remember Byun cheesing out Dark with proxy reapers ? Where is he now ? With Ragnarok :D edit : and Innovation | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On February 13 2018 04:21 Tyrhanius wrote: Remember Byun cheesing out Dark with proxy reapers ? Where is he now ? With Ragnarok :D edit : and Innovation Slam dunk  | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On February 13 2018 02:57 Mike L wrote: against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On February 13 2018 06:07 Fango wrote: She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing. why are you arguing with deluded fanboys... | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
On February 13 2018 06:07 Fango wrote: She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing. early agression is also part of the game if you have better chances to beat your opponent without being involved into macro game - why wouldn`t use it? Mvp cheesed Squirtle in their final game and won GSL so should we blame him for that? beating someone in macro wouldn`t give you more credits from result and won`t make you better player than you actually are. | ||
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William paradise
1753 Posts
And even if players can stem the early aggression she has learned to keep up economy so she can still be ahead. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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HoldenC23
Canada64 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Christ, remember the famous MMA vs MVP match where there were 4 cheeses back to back? You play the player, not the game. If you see a player who you think will be put off balance, even tilted, by cheese, you cheese him. If Scarlett was incapable of playing longer games, or clearly had to rely on cheese as a crutch, then by all means shit talk her skill. There are plenty of players - Koreans included - who clearly suffer if they're forced into longer games. Scarlett isn't one of them. She's good at all aspects of the game. She's not the best player in SC 2, but she's very good. The fact she's got this far into GSL is the proof of it. If she makes it all the way... hell, it'll make the next GSL more exciting, don't you think? | ||
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UncleVinny
United States35 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 16 2018 07:26 UncleVinny wrote: Does anyone know why before every game in the GSL this season, the announcer says “Daybreak!”? Is this the name of the season? It seems odd to me. I wonder if I’m mishearing the word, and he’s actually saying something else. I believe so. They'll probably give the other two seasons this year names that also match this theme. It is a bit weird, but weirdness of the sort is to be expected from Korean stuff. Check out their trailer with hashtags before every single word. | ||
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UncleVinny
United States35 Posts
On February 16 2018 07:33 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I believe so. They'll probably give the other two seasons this year names that also match this theme. It is a bit weird, but weirdness of the sort is to be expected from Korean stuff. Check out their trailer with hashtags before every single word. I can’t find a main website for the GSL, but it’d be cool to find it in print, even if it’s Korean. With the new achievement policy in Liquipedia, I’m motivated to make an update! In the meantime, it makes me nostalgic for Daybreak, one of my favorite SC2 maps ever. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On February 16 2018 08:23 UncleVinny wrote: I can’t find a main website for the GSL, but it’d be cool to find it in print, even if it’s Korean. With the new achievement policy in Liquipedia, I’m motivated to make an update! In the meantime, it makes me nostalgic for Daybreak, one of my favorite SC2 maps ever. Oh yes, Daybreak, the greatest BL/infestor map ever! | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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Afreeca Starleague
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EPT
2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S
