EPTMaru has to face the best Tosses in his way out the group and then in the playoffs
[GSL 2018] Season 1 - Ro16 Group A - Page 27
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
Maru has to face the best Tosses in his way out the group and then in the playoffs | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:38 Inflicted wrote: Invisible man will quietly make his way to the finals So no terran in the ro8 | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:37 juicyjames wrote: Any recommended matches? Scarlett vs Zest Game 3 was pretty interesting Leenock vs Zest Game 3 was cool too | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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YourFavoriteTerran
33 Posts
TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Just fuck up my liquibet fam I mean... who betted Scarlett and Zest? Even the Scarlett fans probably betted Inno. Unless you went Inno/Leenock it should be fine | ||
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Zephyp
238 Posts
Really happy for Scarlett! First IEM and now Ro8 in GSL.  This highly aggressive zerg style makes me think of Life. Don't think I remember seeing this much early aggression for years. Not trying to poke fun at Innovation with this picture, but more a happy moment for Scarlett. This is after Scarlett had harassed Innovation into a pretty clear loss in game one: Artosis' comment was: "Look at Innovations face!" ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wBbBHUm.jpg) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. Are you complaining that the shitty ravager rush is too strong? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 Charoisaur wrote: I mean... who betted Scarlett and Zest? Even the Scarlett fans probably betted Inno. Unless you went Inno/Leenock it should be fine I totally betted Inno/Zest lol, it was before she won IEM If I had bet Scarlett in both rounds I'd be in first place right now RIP | ||
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TanksALot
United States153 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I totally betted Inno/Zest lol, it was before she won IEM If I had bet Scarlett in both rounds I'd be in first place right now RIP You would've betted Zest over Inno? | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. Sounds like you don't watch the many many many TvZs where Zerg goes for a ravager all in, does nothing, and dies in a few minutes because they have drones, but a weak low tech army and no upgrades vs 1-1 stim and medivacs. Also, your Top 50 Terran sounds terrible or spams one build and ladders a ton as that would get you there as well | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Meh, probably not actually, so maybe I would only be tied | ||
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16062 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. I think you're looking at the game's past through rose-coloured glasses, honestly. I like SC2 and have been following it from the beta, but it has always had some frustrating design choices, IMO. It's gone through a lot of phases where certain strategies or certain units have looked really messed up, and it's always been more rock-paper-scissorsy than BW. The ever changing nature of the game frustrates me because players come to really dominate under certain conditions and then have the rug pulled out from under them by a new patch (which usually seems to present a new set of issues), but on the other hand, it seems like a reasonable compromise way of not having to basically re-design the game from the ground up... Anyway, all this is to say that I really don't think that the frustration you're venting describes anything new going on here--I don't think there are glory days to look back to on this front. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:44 YourFavoriteTerran wrote: They really did a number on Starcraft 2. I used to get a sense of awe watching tournaments, seeing even 2nd rate players going at it had a sense of respect to it. Now, the game is a shadow of what it used to be. What used to be about micro and game sense has turned into a game of rock paper Ravager. Now foreigner and korean terrans are simply getting walked over in matchups. Terran used to the best matchups to watch but now TvP has turned into a macrofest with liberators. We are literally watching Protoss players mass carriers at 12 minutes in and pretending to like it. Does anyone like watching a Protoss sit on 4 bases making Carriers while Zerg sits on 6 bases making Hydralisks and Corruptors? No, nobody does. We just pretend to like it even though the matchups used to be something greater than A clicks and Rock Paper Scissors. TvZ is literally unspeakable right now, zerg has massive advantages in every single shape and form. The only build a zerg needs to be 'scared' of is a proxy 2 rax, which is super easily scouted and can still be held when caught off guard. The real concern is the transitions available. Terran pressure attacks have no transitions right now, if they are scouted they simply don't work and Terran is behind the rest of the game. With Zerg, you can do a failed Ravager allin with no damage at all, but the Terran still had to make 3 bunkers pull SCVS and get a tank or multiple cyclones/banshees out. At the WORST, zerg is even with a Terran 10x his skill just from doing a Ravager pressure. That's the scary thing. Knowing that a random Mid-Masters Zerg could take a game off of a korean Grandmaster Terran if he doesn't play completely right. I watched a Grandmaster Terran top 50 in my friends list lose 0-2 to a Random low masters Zerg with massgames. What happened? Ravager attacks. There is literally no repercussion to Ravager attacks/pressure because they are dirt cheap, effective, and have no counters. It's just boring to watch Ravager attacks because they take very little skill at all. It takes the micro and admirable skill out of Starcraft. did you watch any of the games today? i'm not sure why you're here if you're not going to talk about the games because they didn't look the way you portray it in your post. i'm going to go out on a limb and just say that you don't understand the intricacies of what the professionals are doing. for example, innovation lost vs scarlett in a zergling baneling followup to losing his hellions. there's 2 or three variations to that attack. you can load 4 hellions in a medivac and rally 2 hellions to kill drones at the third, or you can attack like what he did with 1 reaper and 4 hellions. the other variations involve hellbat (armory) or simply waiting for more hellions. scarlett's build was very obviously catered to that in games 1 and 2 (which is quite frankly meta in NA that i know of). there is risk reward and blind knowhow to that. if innovation plays absolutely safe (which he didn't, even if he didn't CC first) the chances to him being slightly ahead playing standard is very high. this is owed to scarlett's adaptation and experience, and conversely, innovation not doing the same. what part of any of that is rock papers scissors? it's all decision-making, as zest recalls in his interview about his games vs Z (scarlett). the point is, both sides of the matchup can reasonably win, and inaction in the game punishes you if you're trying to play certain styles. i think this is what most newer players with this game struggle with. they build a composition, but they don't explore their other options in the process. in zest's games for example especially towards the end of the scarlett series, he didn't use his many options at that point in the game. he didn't have DT tech, did not have a warp prism out, didn't rid creep (though that part more understandable), and he didn't shed his army composition of the zealots for stalkers, archons, or more carriers until it was too late to. now if you look at his games vs leenock he makes that adjustment. in fact in the last game they play where it goes to late game (mothership included), he does everything i mentioned above and manages to harass and defend at the same time while building a bulkier unit composition because his zealots were long traded away. maybe by playing the game yourself you would very quickly regain your sense of awe, because none of what you're watching is easy, and non-championship contending players still wipe the floor with everyone who is under-prepared. more importantly, you're invested as a spectator because you know their positions are difficult and look forward to seeing what they adapt to turn it around. the game is very taxing these days and these are not stupid herp derp players who hotkey their stargates and press the carrier hotkey, contrary to back in the day we'd essentially hit DD-aaaaaaaaaa and stim on our opponents side of the map. it's hard to accept change if you're not there to try changing with it. in my opinion, the game is the most dynamic it has been and deserves to be called a difficult RTS. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On February 10 2018 16:54 neutralrobot wrote: I think you're looking at the game's past through rose-coloured glasses, honestly. I like SC2 and have been following it from the beta, but it has always had some frustrating design choices, IMO. It's gone through a lot of phases where certain strategies or certain units have looked really messed up, and it's always been more rock-paper-scissorsy than BW. The ever changing nature of the game frustrates me because players come to really dominate under certain conditions and then have the rug pulled out from under them by a new patch (which usually seems to present a new set of issues), but on the other hand, it seems like a reasonable compromise way of not having to basically re-design the game from the ground up... Anyway, all this is to say that I really don't think that the frustration you're venting describes anything new going on here--I don't think there are glory days to look back to on this front. By "glory days" he means "times when Terran was OP". | ||
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SlammerIV
United States526 Posts
On February 10 2018 15:11 iamho wrote: I wonder if Zest and Inno even bothered to watch Scarlett's IEM games, it really seems like they weren't prepared for her playstyle at all. In retrospect it sort of feels like Inno especially did not give her enough respect, his opening were one dimensional and greedy. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
 Very exciting games gg Scarlett and Zest for advancing! I'd have liked to have Innovation in the next round, TvX are always good matchups, but I cannot complain honestly. I hadn't watched SC2 in a while, but after IEM and this GSL round, I must say the game seems in quite a good spot, very enjoyable. gg | ||
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