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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
On October 24 2017 07:14 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: We can discuss how Rogue will win the whole thing, for starters. That's meaningful lol inb4 Inno wins the whole thing whithout losing a map and then complains about Zerg being OP and him having a 10% winrate | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 24 2017 13:18 pvsnp wrote: So what are people predicting as far as TvZ goes at Blizzcon. Mech or bio? The bio TvZ meta has been mapped out for ages, and the consensus seems to be that LBH is favored but not unbeatable. Mech on the other hand is in a bit of an interesting spot right now. I recently rewatched the vods of Dark vs Inno in GSL, and Rogue vs Inno in the ST. Having seen the way those games played out, I'm reasonably certain that Inno specifically crafted his build to counter Dark's build, and Rogue in turn specifically crafted his own build to counter Inno's. Insofar as I understand it, Dark's anti-mech play revolves around a big BL-based deathball, supported by Hydras, Vipers and Corruptors. The idea is to neutralize the Terran's AA via Abduct/Parasitic Bomb + Hydras/Corruptors and thereby allow the BLs to go to town against the Terran's tanks. Various runbys are sprinkled in for harass and countering. Inno countered this style by using double-Starport Banshees for pressure and to keep Dark back while he macro'd up into a sufficiently large Siege Tank count + Hellbats and Vikings. Defensively or offensively, the Tanks and Hellbats are gradually traded out for more Thors and Vikings until a maxed push (emphasis on positioning between the hatches) ends the game. NB: Mass thor is surprisingly effective. Also, splitting the mech army works quite well against Dark's style, since BLs are slow and the Zerg deathball must stay together. Rogue countered that style by using SH to continually pressure Inno and gradually starve the Terran economy with a soft-contain while building up a massive bank himself. When Inno finally made his maxed push, Rogue traded out and remaxed several times, ending with one-two combo of a mass bane transition to take out the Hellbat screen, followed immediately by a mass crackling transition to finish the job. Ling/Bane was the counter to mech all along? A counter to Rogue's style has yet to be demonstrated, if it even exists. Theorycrafting, I would say that battle mech would probably be a decent starting point, to try and exploit the cooldown of the SH. Turtling is just a slow death sentence. Mech is too easily countered right now imo. I'm not an avilo fan by any means but SH/viper is very effective. I honestly think the reason mech took of in the first place was because the korean zergs didn't tend to use swarm hosts. Assuming Dark/soO/Rogue have practiced against in they should be fine. Maybe not soO but he has issues with zvt in general As far as predictions go, Gumiho will mech, TY will bio, Inno will 50-50, Kela will bio, majOr will 50-50 | ||
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Avicularia
540 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On October 24 2017 13:18 pvsnp wrote: So what are people predicting as far as TvZ goes at Blizzcon. Mech or bio? I haven't been watching recent online tournaments to get a sense of the Korean TvZ meta so I'm probably completely wrong, but: -TY plays bio into a ghost transition against Snute. -INnoVation plays bio and wins flexing his macro muscles against TRUE/Serral. (He might go mech if TRUE cheeses and he needs cyclones to hold and he thinks that's a better transition) -GuMiho goes full mech against Serral/TRUE. -Who cares SpeCial and Kelazhur do? In a bo5/bo7 against Korean Zergs, we will probably see TY or INnoVation play bio, marine/tank, AND mech though the mech might be only a timing attack like the Cyclone/Hell that INnoVation used against Dark at IEM Gyeonggi. I suppose people might call that battle mech. GuMiho in a longer series is more of a wild card in my eyes. I have no reason to think that he's a stubborn player and he hasn't always been wedded to mech, but for some reason, I have the feeling that he's most likely to be willing to go down with the ship playing mech an entire series against anyone relying on different mech builds to change things up rather than going bio. I had a dream last night that the ro8 was INnoVation/soO, Rogue/TY, Dark/GuMiho and all the Zergs won. Hopefully that doesn't come to pass though I'll accept it if Rogue wins Blizzcon. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
I'd like a poll regarding who those players be. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On October 24 2017 22:47 bulya wrote: Day 1 is about 2 players who will be out of blizzcon on the first day (1 of each group). I'd like a poll regarding who those players be. SpeCial and Nerchio. Maybe SpeCial and soO. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On October 24 2017 22:47 bulya wrote: Day 1 is about 2 players who will be out of blizzcon on the first day (1 of each group). I'd like a poll regarding who those players be. Snute and Nerchio | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 24 2017 22:47 bulya wrote: Day 1 is about 2 players who will be out of blizzcon on the first day (1 of each group). I'd like a poll regarding who those players be. Anyone except Stats has a chance at being knocked knocked out imo | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On October 24 2017 23:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: The question is, do we need another really long story shitpost? Not even competing for passion points this year As long as there is INno and soO there is passion | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 24 2017 23:23 Mun_Su wrote: As long as there is INno and soO there is passion With inno i even have a storyline going already, how did byun and inno break up though :O | ||
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VengefulTree
Canada637 Posts
On October 24 2017 11:58 Boggyb wrote: Do you have any examples of good pro games on the map? The one game I remember was Neeb TRUE in Montreal and that entire series was a bloodbath. Zanster beating Major's mech on Interloper was something  Also On October 24 2017 14:45 Ej_ wrote: Terraform was a great map to rape Zerg, I'm glad now you can at least 12pool on it before archon immortal amoves into you through a lurker field Can you not say 'rape' maybe thx | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
FTFY | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 24 2017 13:18 pvsnp wrote: So what are people predicting as far as TvZ goes at Blizzcon. Mech or bio? The bio TvZ meta has been mapped out for ages, and the consensus seems to be that LBH is favored but not unbeatable. Mech on the other hand is in a bit of an interesting spot right now. I recently rewatched the vods of Dark vs Inno in GSL, and Rogue vs Inno in the ST. Having seen the way those games played out, I'm reasonably certain that Inno specifically crafted his build to counter Dark's build, and Rogue in turn specifically crafted his own build to counter Inno's. Insofar as I understand it, Dark's anti-mech play revolves around a big BL-based deathball, supported by Hydras, Vipers and Corruptors. The idea is to neutralize the Terran's AA via Abduct/Parasitic Bomb + Hydras/Corruptors and thereby allow the BLs to go to town against the Terran's tanks. Various runbys are sprinkled in for harass and countering. Inno countered this style by using double-Starport Banshees for pressure and to keep Dark back while he macro'd up into a sufficiently large Siege Tank count + Hellbats and Vikings. Defensively or offensively, the Tanks and Hellbats are gradually traded out for more Thors and Vikings until a maxed push (emphasis on positioning between the hatches) ends the game. NB: Mass thor is surprisingly effective. Also, splitting the mech army works quite well against Dark's style, since BLs are slow and the Zerg deathball must stay together. Rogue countered that style by using SH to continually pressure Inno and gradually starve the Terran economy with a soft-contain while building up a massive bank himself. When Inno finally made his maxed push, Rogue traded out and remaxed several times, ending with one-two combo of a mass bane transition to take out the Hellbat screen, followed immediately by a mass crackling transition to finish the job. Ling/Bane was the counter to mech all along? A counter to Rogue's style has yet to be demonstrated, if it even exists. Theorycrafting, I would say that battle mech would probably be a decent starting point, to try and exploit the cooldown of the SH. Turtling is just a slow death sentence. One terran will pull out a weird raven-centric mech build that looks invincible against zerg, but then get knocked out in a TvP terminally disappointing everyone. Balance changes hit right after Blizzcon making it the greatest build that never was. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 24 2017 23:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: With inno i even have a storyline going already, how did byun and inno break up though :O Lolwut | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On October 24 2017 20:39 Philozovic wrote: lol inb4 Inno wins the whole thing whithout losing a map and then complains about Zerg being OP and him having a 10% winrate Innovation is favored everywhere else, but idk if anyone is going to be able to beat Nerchio. | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Just some silly shitpost i wrote last year, back then there were "passion points" you got for posting in the LR thread so i went ham  The guy who set it up ironically doesn't have any passion anymore though, so RIP. | ||
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