Interesting that if you have an all-race group and start with the mirror, all possible matchups are inevitable, while if you start with the non-mirors, then all the matches can be these two matchups.
I wonder whether I will ever come through the Wolf process with Rapid, that is from indifference through mild hate into unconditional love. Still stuck at phase two ...
On May 31 2017 18:05 opisska wrote: I wonder whether I will ever come through the Wolf process with Rapid, that is from indifference through mild hate into unconditional love. Still stuck at phase two ...
On May 31 2017 18:05 opisska wrote: I wonder whether I will ever come through the Wolf process with Rapid, that is from indifference through mild hate into unconditional love. Still stuck at phase two ...
On May 31 2017 18:05 opisska wrote: I wonder whether I will ever come through the Wolf process with Rapid, that is from indifference through mild hate into unconditional love. Still stuck at phase two ...
hero cheeses in all his games for quite some time now how does dear not prepare for that? :/ well guess hero goes out 1st place and we will have to suffer another boring "hero" PvT in the winners match
On May 31 2017 18:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: hero cheeses in all his games for quite some time now how does dear not prepare for that? :/ well guess hero goes out 1st place and we will have to suffer another boring "hero" PvT in the winners match
Nothing is boring with Terran tears all over the thread.
I dare some brave soul to take upon a drinking game based on when artosis says "for the time being". Probably better wait for the invention of artificial liver though.
On May 31 2017 19:25 sparklyresidue wrote: hm, i thought Rogue was doing okay but...turns out I forgot that SCVs don't matter
Its not that... Rogue should have gone roach ravager infestor to be able to establish a 4th. He chose to go hive without any proper units against Buyns army. His 4th was cancelled several times and that was that...
Lol this is like a mirror of that last game. Afraid it will be the same result as well though... Rogues army just cant compete with what Buyn has no idea why he does not realize that :/
I liked Dark's 8 corruptor squad to deny drops way more than this. I mean the ultras are nice but being forced to stay on your own side of the map with no creep anywhere is just too rough.
Well that was expected Rogue is just bad against any good terran... And now god please let Buyn withhold heros disgusting PvT style, so he can be bopped by Rogue later !
On May 31 2017 20:12 Aunvilgodess wrote: Ok this is fucking cool.
And also fucking bad huehue
I wonder, maybe the build is very good against adept phoenix?
I think the build worked out quite well for Buyn. He got rid of the Oracles and had good defense setup. The moment that lost him the game was the unscouted charge + the moveout towards chargelot surround.
On May 31 2017 20:12 Aunvilgodess wrote: Ok this is fucking cool.
And also fucking bad huehue
I wonder, maybe the build is very good against adept phoenix?
Yep, it's a Maru build designed vs adept-phoenix, you go cancel the third with the first thor and marines, etc. The game was nearly lost when herO scouted the thor, no way you go adept-phoenix vs that.
On May 31 2017 20:53 Zzzapper wrote: Wouldn't 1 void ray be better than those 2 last oracles when Rouge is clearly all-in?
It would be good vs the OL which dropped stuff, but otherwise lings just run around voids
Finishing off that overlord would be super useful and the void could just sit near the buildings in the nat. The oracles ran out of energy and did literally nothing for ages. I think a void slowly picking off lings would kill more over time
On May 31 2017 21:15 Seeker wrote: If someone could do me a favor and please post the polls in my place. I'm going to sleep. They're already made. You just need to copy/paste.
On May 31 2017 21:18 Elentos wrote: If Rogue wins now and Group D is Zerg/Maru the Ro8 is 4 mirror matches. The upper half of the bracket would be 4 Terrans.
I wanted to make a joke about Terran GSL finalists but then i've realized that i missed 2015 entirely.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
Plus its not like there's so many mirrors because of one race dominating (like gomTvT or PvP tournaments from hots). We still get to see all races
Edit: an all mirror ro8 guarantees a hype ro4/final imo
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (ravager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
Mirrors can be horrible but it depends on the meta. PvP disruptor wars and collosus balls etc aren't fun in general, but Stats and classic are the best protosses, no way that's horrible to watch. These players "should" be too good to die to mirror rng.
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
PvP is fun
Late game PvP is the worst thing in the game.
I find watching it enjoyable and funny. Love the disruptor wars, phoenix micro, even carriers. ZvZ just always ends after 5 mins tops and TvT is the worst, just waiting if the doom drop fails or wins the game.
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
That's dumb. It only makes the person the best at their mirror (out of the available competition), not the best of their race.
And Classic vs Stats was horrible in the group stage, so sure they can have a horrible match.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
That's dumb. It only makes the person the best at their mirror (out of the available competition), not the best of their race.
And Classic vs Stats was horrible in the group stage, so sure they can have a horrible match.
It's called hype, its not always accurate but it works
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
Yeah I see the point and I agree with uthermal being the only terran that could be considered top EU but there are a lot of mediocre zergs getting the best of not only uthermal but heromarine, sould maybe... Korean Zergs >>> EU Zergs and if they started playing the "right way" against those korean terrans they would find much more success. Instead they are sticking to the style they are most familiar with which is dumb because they are not using those current Zerg strenghts at all in the matchup. They are great players, just not at ZvT and its their own fault.
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
That's dumb. It only makes the person the best at their mirror (out of the available competition), not the best of their race.
And Classic vs Stats was horrible in the group stage, so sure they can have a horrible match.
It's called hype, its not always accurate but it works
I prefer when we get hyped without lying to ourselves.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
Yeah I see the point and I agree with uthermal being the only terran that could be considered top EU but there are a lot of mediocre zergs getting the best of not only uthermal but heromarine, sould maybe... Korean Zergs >>> EU Zergs and if they started playing the "right way" against those korean terrans they would find much more success. Instead they are sticking to the style they are most familiar with which is dumb because they are not using those current Zerg strenghts at all in the matchup. They are great players, just not at ZvT and its their own fault.
The "right way" may not be enough though. Unless the EU zergs can beat Korean terrans, I can't justify the same builds working. The eu terrans do not have the macro or control that kr players do. Not even close
I mean we saw Solar destroy maru at super cup with infestors and roaches iirc, only to get equally rekt by alive.
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
That's dumb. It only makes the person the best at their mirror (out of the available competition), not the best of their race.
And Classic vs Stats was horrible in the group stage, so sure they can have a horrible match.
It's called hype, its not always accurate but it works
I prefer when we get hyped without lying to ourselves.
Are you really not hyped about having the winner of the best zvz play the best pvper? and then the terran champion in the final?
Plus it guarantees no mirror final. Always a good thing
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
Yeah I see the point and I agree with uthermal being the only terran that could be considered top EU but there are a lot of mediocre zergs getting the best of not only uthermal but heromarine, sould maybe... Korean Zergs >>> EU Zergs and if they started playing the "right way" against those korean terrans they would find much more success. Instead they are sticking to the style they are most familiar with which is dumb because they are not using those current Zerg strenghts at all in the matchup. They are great players, just not at ZvT and its their own fault.
The "right way" may not be enough though. Unless the EU zergs can beat Korean terrans, I can't justify the same builds working. The eu terrans do not have the macro or control that kr players do. Not even close
I mean we saw Solar destroy maru at super cup with infestors and roaches iirc, only to get equally rekt by alive.
Nah the EU Zergs will never regularly beat Korean terrans, thats not about style... the skill gap is too big there. I have seen Nerchio kick some korean terran ass online but that was because they were not used to EU zerg style and they were not prepared at all. I am only comparing EU zerg vs EU terran and Korea Zerg vs Korean Terran. Imagine that EU zergs would go bling muta against uthernal lets say the only EU top terran. Top terran can easily counter that with his superior bio micro... not saying thermy would have 100 percent winrate but he would oh so happy going up against this style believe me. Its the same in korea only the Korean zergs are actually playing into korean terran strenghts by sticking to these senseless builds :/
On May 31 2017 21:34 Elentos wrote: Please no full mirror Ro8, group D pls
Full mirror ro8 would be amazing. Guarantees no mirror final and the hype of "best terran" vs "best protoss/zerg".
Except all mirrors are horrible.
Mirrors allow you to crown a "king" of each race. Only become horrible when the metas are bad (leading to rng wins). In gsl ro8 they will be playing their absolute best.
What
For example, having a TvT upper bracket allows the hype of saying whoever gets to the final is the best terran (e.g. ty at iem).
That's dumb. It only makes the person the best at their mirror (out of the available competition), not the best of their race.
And Classic vs Stats was horrible in the group stage, so sure they can have a horrible match.
It's called hype, its not always accurate but it works
I prefer when we get hyped without lying to ourselves.
Are you really not hyped about having the winner of the best zvz play the best pvper? and then the terran champion in the final?
Not by default, no. Depends on which players it turn out to be.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
Yeah I see the point and I agree with uthermal being the only terran that could be considered top EU but there are a lot of mediocre zergs getting the best of not only uthermal but heromarine, sould maybe... Korean Zergs >>> EU Zergs and if they started playing the "right way" against those korean terrans they would find much more success. Instead they are sticking to the style they are most familiar with which is dumb because they are not using those current Zerg strenghts at all in the matchup. They are great players, just not at ZvT and its their own fault.
The "right way" may not be enough though. Unless the EU zergs can beat Korean terrans, I can't justify the same builds working. The eu terrans do not have the macro or control that kr players do. Not even close
I mean we saw Solar destroy maru at super cup with infestors and roaches iirc, only to get equally rekt by alive.
Nah the EU Zergs will never regularly beat Korean terrans, thats not about style... the skill gap is too big there. I have seen Nerchio kick some korean terran ass online but that was because they were not used to EU zerg style and they were not prepared at all. I am only comparing EU zerg vs EU terran and Korea Zerg vs Korean Terran. Imagine that EU zergs would go bling muta against uthernal lets say the only EU top terran. Top terran can easily counter that with his superior bio micro... not saying thermy would have 100 percent winrate but he would oh so happy going up against this style believe me. Its the same in korea only the Korean zergs are actually playing into korean terran strenghts by sticking to these senseless builds :/
Serral plays a lot of LBM and from watching streams uthermal and heromarine don't seem to win often vs him. It's a stylistic thing I don't think one playstyle is superior over the other.
On May 31 2017 21:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Rogue should learn ZvT from the EU Zergs. If he does that he will be unstoppable. All the korean Zergs should in fact
Yh those EU zergs with their one terran they ever to play against. Experts in the matchup
Well they certainly are more expert than those koreans keep going at the terrans with bane/ling when they have so much more powerful units in their arsenal (rhavager/infestor into ultra and blord if needed). Korean Zergs have the skill and all but are just awful at ZvT lets just finally admit it
No they aren't. They just have to play people like ty, inno, byun, maru, alive etc. The only eu terran worth mentioning is uthermal. Even keen, ryung, gumiho etc are far above any EU terran.
At wesg Maru either 2-0'd or 3-0'd every foreigner he met. And he's considered slumping by korean standards (and everyone on here)
Yeah I see the point and I agree with uthermal being the only terran that could be considered top EU but there are a lot of mediocre zergs getting the best of not only uthermal but heromarine, sould maybe... Korean Zergs >>> EU Zergs and if they started playing the "right way" against those korean terrans they would find much more success. Instead they are sticking to the style they are most familiar with which is dumb because they are not using those current Zerg strenghts at all in the matchup. They are great players, just not at ZvT and its their own fault.
The "right way" may not be enough though. Unless the EU zergs can beat Korean terrans, I can't justify the same builds working. The eu terrans do not have the macro or control that kr players do. Not even close
I mean we saw Solar destroy maru at super cup with infestors and roaches iirc, only to get equally rekt by alive.
Nah the EU Zergs will never regularly beat Korean terrans, thats not about style... the skill gap is too big there. I have seen Nerchio kick some korean terran ass online but that was because they were not used to EU zerg style and they were not prepared at all. I am only comparing EU zerg vs EU terran and Korea Zerg vs Korean Terran. Imagine that EU zergs would go bling muta against uthernal lets say the only EU top terran. Top terran can easily counter that with his superior bio micro... not saying thermy would have 100 percent winrate but he would oh so happy going up against this style believe me. Its the same in korea only the Korean zergs are actually playing into korean terran strenghts by sticking to these senseless builds :/
Whats the sample size on this. I haven't seen dark, soo, byul, or solar constantly losing to terrans as far as I know. In race wars terran and zerg were almost equal against eachother (terran winning 1 extra map I believe).
Also, comparing "eu zerg vs eu terran" to "kr zerg vs kr terran" isn't exactly fair. Eu terran is very weak due to a lack of decent players (in comparison to eu zerg). Not necessarily playstyle. Whereas top kr terrans outnumber the kr zergs right now I bet. Eu zerg will always dominate eu terran until they get better.
On June 01 2017 07:04 Boggyb wrote: Haven't had a chance to watch, but hell yeah Rogue! If a Zerg wins Group D, I could see Rogue making the finals.
You think he beats classic or stats?
I think Rogue is capable of beating any non-Terran on a good day. He's also capable of losing to pretty much anyone on a bad day. His style of play is just impossible to prepare against, especially since he can keep his weirdest builds in house.
On June 01 2017 12:09 Topin wrote: i believe that if herO would have played without that chargelots style he could have advanced... i wonder why he felt so confident about that build
Yeah, should have stuck with adept all-ins instead.
EPT
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