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On May 08 2017 23:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 23:32 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:30 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 23:26 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:42 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:38 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:31 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:23 pvsnp wrote:
[quote]
If you think sOs deserved to win that, gtfo. Several people in this very thread thought that it was a massive mistake for Inno to go 3cc because sOs was too likely to do an all-in. Well, he did an all-in, and Inno won the game anyway. But somehow he still deserved to, because gtfo if you disagree. So are you saying that 8-gate Adept rushing should be viable at the pro level, and sOs should've won that? Pretty sure it's the common sentiment among fans and players alike that cheese is the "filthy" strategy that you try and throw at the wall and see if it sticks, as one of the casters said. It's just kind of disgusting to see somebody win a series by cheesing. Are you saying that it should be viable at the pro level to go for greedy builds against people who all-in a lot and then win against an all-in? And on and on it goes. "Deserving" is a stupid concept in video games and generally means "I like this guy more than this other guy and I'd like to pretend it's for objective reasons", as is the case here. It doesn't have a ton of connection with the expressed sentiment that you were responding to in the first place. By "deserving" I mean showing superior skill, which cheese contradicts because of the heavy luck factor. But like, Inno is embarrassingly bad at strategy. He is so bad at strategy that it makes me question his choice to rely on a strategy game for his profession, I've never seen him outplay anyone strategically in any game. The community even recognizes his terrible level and calls him a machine to display that he actually doesn't think about what he's doing, he just mashes button really fast (and really accurately) - however since he's playing the race of good it's a funny trait of him and not something worth despising, like being bad at execution for a toss. And yet you're never going to question that he deserves to win games. ??? Of course I will question whether he deserves to win. Take his most famous defeat, against Soulkey. INnoVation didn't deserve to win because he didn't have the skill (in this case mental fortitude) to defeat Soulkey even if he proved that he was the superior macro player. Yes, Soulkey won games using Roach/Bane busts but that was not the reason why Inno lost. He lost because Soulkey outplayed him in the mental game, which is equally (if not more) important than the video game. Not sure why you seem to think I'm some biased Inno fan. I agree that Inno is bad at strategy, it's by far his biggest weakness and one that I'm frankly shocked that he's managed to overcome. Well in this game he made a very bad strategical decision and someone questioned whether he deserved to win and you told him to gtfo. I told him to gtfo if he thought sOs deserved to win. I don't think Inno deserved to win Game 3 either. How does no player "deserve" to win the game?
Sleep vs Blaze
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On May 08 2017 23:44 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 23:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On May 08 2017 23:32 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:30 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 23:26 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:42 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:38 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:31 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Several people in this very thread thought that it was a massive mistake for Inno to go 3cc because sOs was too likely to do an all-in. Well, he did an all-in, and Inno won the game anyway. But somehow he still deserved to, because gtfo if you disagree. So are you saying that 8-gate Adept rushing should be viable at the pro level, and sOs should've won that? Pretty sure it's the common sentiment among fans and players alike that cheese is the "filthy" strategy that you try and throw at the wall and see if it sticks, as one of the casters said. It's just kind of disgusting to see somebody win a series by cheesing. Are you saying that it should be viable at the pro level to go for greedy builds against people who all-in a lot and then win against an all-in? And on and on it goes. "Deserving" is a stupid concept in video games and generally means "I like this guy more than this other guy and I'd like to pretend it's for objective reasons", as is the case here. It doesn't have a ton of connection with the expressed sentiment that you were responding to in the first place. By "deserving" I mean showing superior skill, which cheese contradicts because of the heavy luck factor. But like, Inno is embarrassingly bad at strategy. He is so bad at strategy that it makes me question his choice to rely on a strategy game for his profession, I've never seen him outplay anyone strategically in any game. The community even recognizes his terrible level and calls him a machine to display that he actually doesn't think about what he's doing, he just mashes button really fast (and really accurately) - however since he's playing the race of good it's a funny trait of him and not something worth despising, like being bad at execution for a toss. And yet you're never going to question that he deserves to win games. ??? Of course I will question whether he deserves to win. Take his most famous defeat, against Soulkey. INnoVation didn't deserve to win because he didn't have the skill (in this case mental fortitude) to defeat Soulkey even if he proved that he was the superior macro player. Yes, Soulkey won games using Roach/Bane busts but that was not the reason why Inno lost. He lost because Soulkey outplayed him in the mental game, which is equally (if not more) important than the video game. Not sure why you seem to think I'm some biased Inno fan. I agree that Inno is bad at strategy, it's by far his biggest weakness and one that I'm frankly shocked that he's managed to overcome. Well in this game he made a very bad strategical decision and someone questioned whether he deserved to win and you told him to gtfo. I told him to gtfo if he thought sOs deserved to win. I don't think Inno deserved to win Game 3 either. How does no player "deserve" to win the game? Sleep vs Blaze
Everyone involved in that series lost, including the spectators.
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On May 08 2017 23:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 23:32 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:30 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 23:26 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:42 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:38 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:31 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:23 pvsnp wrote:
[quote]
If you think sOs deserved to win that, gtfo. Several people in this very thread thought that it was a massive mistake for Inno to go 3cc because sOs was too likely to do an all-in. Well, he did an all-in, and Inno won the game anyway. But somehow he still deserved to, because gtfo if you disagree. So are you saying that 8-gate Adept rushing should be viable at the pro level, and sOs should've won that? Pretty sure it's the common sentiment among fans and players alike that cheese is the "filthy" strategy that you try and throw at the wall and see if it sticks, as one of the casters said. It's just kind of disgusting to see somebody win a series by cheesing. Are you saying that it should be viable at the pro level to go for greedy builds against people who all-in a lot and then win against an all-in? And on and on it goes. "Deserving" is a stupid concept in video games and generally means "I like this guy more than this other guy and I'd like to pretend it's for objective reasons", as is the case here. It doesn't have a ton of connection with the expressed sentiment that you were responding to in the first place. By "deserving" I mean showing superior skill, which cheese contradicts because of the heavy luck factor. But like, Inno is embarrassingly bad at strategy. He is so bad at strategy that it makes me question his choice to rely on a strategy game for his profession, I've never seen him outplay anyone strategically in any game. The community even recognizes his terrible level and calls him a machine to display that he actually doesn't think about what he's doing, he just mashes button really fast (and really accurately) - however since he's playing the race of good it's a funny trait of him and not something worth despising, like being bad at execution for a toss. And yet you're never going to question that he deserves to win games. ??? Of course I will question whether he deserves to win. Take his most famous defeat, against Soulkey. INnoVation didn't deserve to win because he didn't have the skill (in this case mental fortitude) to defeat Soulkey even if he proved that he was the superior macro player. Yes, Soulkey won games using Roach/Bane busts but that was not the reason why Inno lost. He lost because Soulkey outplayed him in the mental game, which is equally (if not more) important than the video game. Not sure why you seem to think I'm some biased Inno fan. I agree that Inno is bad at strategy, it's by far his biggest weakness and one that I'm frankly shocked that he's managed to overcome. Well in this game he made a very bad strategical decision and someone questioned whether he deserved to win and you told him to gtfo. I told him to gtfo if he thought sOs deserved to win. I don't think Inno deserved to win Game 3 either. How does no player "deserve" to win the game?
Game of Throws
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On May 08 2017 23:44 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 23:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On May 08 2017 23:32 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:30 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 23:26 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:42 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:38 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:31 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Several people in this very thread thought that it was a massive mistake for Inno to go 3cc because sOs was too likely to do an all-in. Well, he did an all-in, and Inno won the game anyway. But somehow he still deserved to, because gtfo if you disagree. So are you saying that 8-gate Adept rushing should be viable at the pro level, and sOs should've won that? Pretty sure it's the common sentiment among fans and players alike that cheese is the "filthy" strategy that you try and throw at the wall and see if it sticks, as one of the casters said. It's just kind of disgusting to see somebody win a series by cheesing. Are you saying that it should be viable at the pro level to go for greedy builds against people who all-in a lot and then win against an all-in? And on and on it goes. "Deserving" is a stupid concept in video games and generally means "I like this guy more than this other guy and I'd like to pretend it's for objective reasons", as is the case here. It doesn't have a ton of connection with the expressed sentiment that you were responding to in the first place. By "deserving" I mean showing superior skill, which cheese contradicts because of the heavy luck factor. But like, Inno is embarrassingly bad at strategy. He is so bad at strategy that it makes me question his choice to rely on a strategy game for his profession, I've never seen him outplay anyone strategically in any game. The community even recognizes his terrible level and calls him a machine to display that he actually doesn't think about what he's doing, he just mashes button really fast (and really accurately) - however since he's playing the race of good it's a funny trait of him and not something worth despising, like being bad at execution for a toss. And yet you're never going to question that he deserves to win games. ??? Of course I will question whether he deserves to win. Take his most famous defeat, against Soulkey. INnoVation didn't deserve to win because he didn't have the skill (in this case mental fortitude) to defeat Soulkey even if he proved that he was the superior macro player. Yes, Soulkey won games using Roach/Bane busts but that was not the reason why Inno lost. He lost because Soulkey outplayed him in the mental game, which is equally (if not more) important than the video game. Not sure why you seem to think I'm some biased Inno fan. I agree that Inno is bad at strategy, it's by far his biggest weakness and one that I'm frankly shocked that he's managed to overcome. Well in this game he made a very bad strategical decision and someone questioned whether he deserved to win and you told him to gtfo. I told him to gtfo if he thought sOs deserved to win. I don't think Inno deserved to win Game 3 either. How does no player "deserve" to win the game? Sleep vs Blaze
Oh, I forgot about that one. "Thanks" for reminding me
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On May 08 2017 23:44 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2017 23:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On May 08 2017 23:32 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:30 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 23:26 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 23:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:42 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:38 Nebuchad wrote:On May 08 2017 22:31 pvsnp wrote:On May 08 2017 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Several people in this very thread thought that it was a massive mistake for Inno to go 3cc because sOs was too likely to do an all-in. Well, he did an all-in, and Inno won the game anyway. But somehow he still deserved to, because gtfo if you disagree. So are you saying that 8-gate Adept rushing should be viable at the pro level, and sOs should've won that? Pretty sure it's the common sentiment among fans and players alike that cheese is the "filthy" strategy that you try and throw at the wall and see if it sticks, as one of the casters said. It's just kind of disgusting to see somebody win a series by cheesing. Are you saying that it should be viable at the pro level to go for greedy builds against people who all-in a lot and then win against an all-in? And on and on it goes. "Deserving" is a stupid concept in video games and generally means "I like this guy more than this other guy and I'd like to pretend it's for objective reasons", as is the case here. It doesn't have a ton of connection with the expressed sentiment that you were responding to in the first place. By "deserving" I mean showing superior skill, which cheese contradicts because of the heavy luck factor. But like, Inno is embarrassingly bad at strategy. He is so bad at strategy that it makes me question his choice to rely on a strategy game for his profession, I've never seen him outplay anyone strategically in any game. The community even recognizes his terrible level and calls him a machine to display that he actually doesn't think about what he's doing, he just mashes button really fast (and really accurately) - however since he's playing the race of good it's a funny trait of him and not something worth despising, like being bad at execution for a toss. And yet you're never going to question that he deserves to win games. ??? Of course I will question whether he deserves to win. Take his most famous defeat, against Soulkey. INnoVation didn't deserve to win because he didn't have the skill (in this case mental fortitude) to defeat Soulkey even if he proved that he was the superior macro player. Yes, Soulkey won games using Roach/Bane busts but that was not the reason why Inno lost. He lost because Soulkey outplayed him in the mental game, which is equally (if not more) important than the video game. Not sure why you seem to think I'm some biased Inno fan. I agree that Inno is bad at strategy, it's by far his biggest weakness and one that I'm frankly shocked that he's managed to overcome. Well in this game he made a very bad strategical decision and someone questioned whether he deserved to win and you told him to gtfo. I told him to gtfo if he thought sOs deserved to win. I don't think Inno deserved to win Game 3 either. How does no player "deserve" to win the game? Sleep vs Blaze
Is it fun to watch for the giggles? I found it on youtube but seems to be more than an hour long, a little long to blindly go into it.
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Still, in any game one player surely plays "better" than the other and thus "deserves" to win. I think exactly pin pointing who plays "better" is almost impossible though, at that point the result defines who "played better"
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On May 08 2017 22:47 Aunvilgodess wrote:Recommended games: Match 1 + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2017 19:24 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 1Awesome (0) 0% Good (1) 33% Average (1) 33% Meh (1) 33% Shit (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 1 (Vote): Awesome
(Vote): Good
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On May 08 2017 19:39 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 2★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 25% ★★★ (3) 75% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 2 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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(Vote): ★
On May 08 2017 19:55 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 3★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 25% ★★★ (3) 75% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Rate Stats vs ByuL game 3 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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Match 2 + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2017 20:10 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Maru vs Patience game 1★★★★★ (1) 17% ★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★ (1) 17% ★★ (4) 67% ★ (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Rate Maru vs Patience game 1 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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On May 08 2017 20:19 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Maru vs Patience game 2★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 14% ★★★ (3) 43% ★★ (3) 43% ★ (0) 0% 7 total votes Your vote: Rate Maru vs Patience game 2 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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On May 08 2017 20:19 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Maru vs Patience game 3★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 25% ★★★ (0) 0% ★★ (1) 25% ★ (2) 50% 4 total votes Your vote: Rate Maru vs Patience game 3 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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Match 3 + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2017 20:36 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Dark vs Solar game 1★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (2) 33% ★★★ (3) 50% ★★ (1) 17% ★ (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Rate Dark vs Solar game 1 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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On May 08 2017 20:47 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Dark vs Solar game 2★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★ (5) 100% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (0) 0% 5 total votes Your vote: Rate Dark vs Solar game 2 (Vote): ★★★★★
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On May 08 2017 20:47 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Dark vs Solar game 3★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★ (2) 100% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (0) 0% 2 total votes Your vote: Rate Dark vs Solar game 3 (Vote): ★★★★★
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Match 4 + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2017 21:13 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Zest vs aLive game 1★★★★★ (1) 14% ★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★ (2) 29% ★★ (1) 14% ★ (3) 43% 7 total votes Your vote: Rate Zest vs aLive game 1 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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On May 08 2017 21:26 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Zest vs aLive game 2★★★★★ (1) 14% ★★★★ (1) 14% ★★★ (2) 29% ★★ (2) 29% ★ (1) 14% 7 total votes Your vote: Rate Zest vs aLive game 2 (Vote): ★★★★★
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On May 08 2017 21:42 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Zest vs aLive game 3★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 20% ★★★ (2) 40% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (2) 40% 5 total votes Your vote: Rate Zest vs aLive game 3 (Vote): ★★★★★
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Match 5 + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2017 21:56 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 1★★★★★ (8) 57% ★★★★ (1) 7% ★★★ (0) 0% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (5) 36% 14 total votes Your vote: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 1 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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On May 08 2017 22:06 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 2★★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★★ (1) 10% ★★★ (5) 50% ★★ (3) 30% ★ (1) 10% 10 total votes Your vote: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 2 (Vote): ★★★★★
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On May 08 2017 22:19 Aunvilgodess wrote:Poll: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 3★★★★★ (16) 80% ★★★★ (0) 0% ★★★ (1) 5% ★★ (0) 0% ★ (3) 15% 20 total votes Your vote: Rate Innovation vs sOs game 3 (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
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Just finished watching sOs vs Innovation g1.
Damn protoss can be dumb sometimes :D
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So do we think Maru can actually 2-0 Byul? I hope so :D
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Of course he can. Question is if he will.
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On May 09 2017 01:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So do we think Maru can actually 2-0 Byul? I hope so :D
Can he come back from being 1-3 down? Maru is king vs lingbane. I think he can do it. But obvs byuL understands how important the match and will probably prepare accordingly.
Maru making into post would be a great answer to everyone on here that says he's doing trash this year.
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On May 09 2017 02:03 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 01:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So do we think Maru can actually 2-0 Byul? I hope so :D Can he come back from being 1-3 down? Maru is king vs lingbane. I think he can do it. But obvs byuL understands how important the match and will probably prepare accordingly. Maru making into post would be a great answer to everyone on here that says he's doing trash this year.
Yeah Byul only needs one game, he should prepare something special for sure.
I hope Maru makes it though, time for another starleague titel 
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On May 09 2017 02:30 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 02:03 Fango wrote:On May 09 2017 01:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So do we think Maru can actually 2-0 Byul? I hope so :D Can he come back from being 1-3 down? Maru is king vs lingbane. I think he can do it. But obvs byuL understands how important the match and will probably prepare accordingly. Maru making into post would be a great answer to everyone on here that says he's doing trash this year. Yeah Byul only needs one game, he should prepare something special for sure. I hope Maru makes it though, time for another starleague titel
Well he has won OSL and SSL already, so he should win the GSL now 
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You have a point, but another SSL wouldn't be bad either. He is still in GSL so that's also an option
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At the risk of sounding anti-hype, I'd like to say that I won't value a title from this thing anywhere comparable to a GSL one. Don't get me wrong, the more Korean SC2 the better and I like to watch this, but it's a rather extensive method of finding out who is the best from these particular 10 players, who don't even represent the current top of the scene very well.
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Hm but why? Like if we look at the qualifiers, these were done really well already including basically a gsl group stage.
The idea that only 10 players are in the main stage obviously was brutal, but it worked out fairly well overall i think.
To me it's almost the contrary, i value this league more than a random GSL where the bracket luck might play a way bigger role.
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On May 09 2017 03:23 opisska wrote:
At the risk of sounding anti-hype, I'd like to say that I won't value a title from this thing anywhere comparable to a GSL one. Don't get me wrong, the more Korean SC2 the better and I like to watch this, but it's a rather extensive method of finding out who is the best from these particular 10 players, who don't even represent the current top of the scene very well.
Well, there was a qualifier to determine the players in premier. Don't really see your point.
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But the qualifier was what, a one-day tournament? Even the GSL has suffered from wonky qualifier results back in the time when there were significantly more than 32 relevant players. But the biggest argument for me is how it didn't work that well with two people going completely bust ...
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I guess you could say that Zest and sOs didn't really "deserve" to be in premier after all, but the same could happen with GSL qualifiers as well so it's just bad luck basically.
At the same time they qualified back then, first through the qualifier stage which is similar to GSL and then through basically a gsl group stage. I mean that's something right.
Overall i think we have good players in there though, a few spots will surely change with time as well. Hard to get it close to perfect with the first season.
Looking at challenge we might have TY, Byun and herO in next premier and at that point it's rock solid tbh. Maybe soO is missing, but hey
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EPT
