Losira is top of his challenger group! He seems to be good in ZvT but still woeful in ZvP, but his group is 3 terrans 1 Protoss and he already lost to the protoss so he should get out of that.
On April 19 2017 16:58 -Archangel- wrote: Wow Losira is still alive in sc2. Can he still compete with the best?
Hasn't been a championship contender since 2011, but he has his moments. Not someone you'd expect to go higher than ro16, but may knock out a big name along the way.
Still inconsistent as always with some fun and bizarre play.
On April 19 2017 17:57 Poopi wrote: sOs is such a weird player he will probably win now that the patch is live... On the other hand he seems really bad. Go Impact and INno I guess.
$o$ is gonna surprise people with his adepts dying unexpectedly quickly now, throwing everyone off balance.
I am not sure everyone is aware how quickly they die now
On April 19 2017 17:57 Poopi wrote: sOs is such a weird player he will probably win now that the patch is live... On the other hand he seems really bad. Go Impact and INno I guess.
$o$ is gonna surprise people with his adepts dying unexpectedly quickly now, throwing everyone off balance.
I am not sure everyone is aware how quickly they die now
I was bored while waiting for GSL so i made a quick power rank to stir up some drama. 12.Byun 11.Classic 10.sOs 9.Byul 8.Maru 7.soO 6.Alive 5.Innovation 4.TY 3.Dark 2.Stats 1.Solar
On April 19 2017 18:26 Morbidius wrote: I was bored while waiting for GSL so i made a quick power rank to stir up some drama. 12.Byun 11.Classic 10.sOs 9.Byul 8.Maru 7.soO 6.Alive 5.Innovation 4.TY 3.Dark 2.Stats 1.Solar
I like how you included a scrub like sOs to stir up drama. You should write for TL.
On April 19 2017 18:26 Morbidius wrote: I was bored while waiting for GSL so i made a quick power rank to stir up some drama. 12.Byun 11.Classic 10.sOs 9.Byul 8.Maru 7.soO 6.Alive 5.Innovation 4.TY 3.Dark 2.Stats 1.Solar
I like how you included a scrub like sOs to stir up drama. You should write for TL.
On April 19 2017 18:26 Morbidius wrote: I was bored while waiting for GSL so i made a quick power rank to stir up some drama. 12.Byun 11.Classic 10.sOs 9.Byul 8.Maru 7.soO 6.Alive 5.Innovation 4.TY 3.Dark 2.Stats 1.Solar
I like how you included a scrub like sOs to stir up drama. You should write for TL.
User was banned for this post.
Also I like the map pool. Korea is having none of Blizzard's map nonsense, and that's good. They pick maps that they like and that have produced good games.
On April 19 2017 18:26 Morbidius wrote: I was bored while waiting for GSL so i made a quick power rank to stir up some drama. 12.Byun 11.Classic 10.sOs 9.Byul 8.Maru 7.soO 6.Alive 5.Innovation 4.TY 3.Dark 2.Stats 1.Solar
I like how you included a scrub like sOs to stir up drama. You should write for TL.
That sums up Losira in a nutshell. He needed like 2 minutes more and he was ahead in that game at the end for me. Instead he loses just when he has the optimum:nothing to defend with xD
Counter and Nydus play was a bit to late to stop Inno's push but he had the economy he needed even after the good harass
Okay Losira has to do some bane bust or 1-base ravager cheese after that. No way he can win a macro game (I mean he should have known that going in though).
On April 19 2017 18:32 GTR wrote: deadwing and frost? lol
I have had it with the idiotic Korean map pool. This is fucking stupid.
That's it, Blizzard needs to FORCE GSL to use current maps.
Disagree. What now? There's no legitimate reason for Blizzard to force anything. Let Korea do what they want, you get more map diversity out of it. I like it.
On April 19 2017 19:27 Pandemona wrote: That sums up Losira in a nutshell. He needed like 2 minutes more and he was ahead in that game at the end for me. Instead he loses just when he has the optimum:nothing to defend with xD
Counter and Nydus play was a bit to late to stop Inno's push but he had the economy he needed even after the good harass
But not enough army because he had to drone so much
Double mind gamed? Scouts tech lab, probably expecting banshee, researches cloak so he see's the tech lab working....doesn't cancel cloak, continues to banshee? xD
On April 19 2017 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Double mind gamed? Scouts tech lab, probably expecting banshee, researches cloak so he see's the tech lab working....doesn't cancel cloak, continues to banshee? xD
On April 19 2017 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Double mind gamed? Scouts tech lab, probably expecting banshee, researches cloak so he see's the tech lab working....doesn't cancel cloak, continues to banshee? xD
You want both a banshee and a raven anyway.
Yeah but why give him the free information of the tech lab researching with that 1 ling attacking it, was bit of a blunder.
INnoVation has decided, he shall execute him with 2fact tank.timing.
On April 19 2017 19:35 Pandemona wrote: Losira defending much better..wonder if it is because he scouted everything and saw tech lab and it researching.... xD
On April 19 2017 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Double mind gamed? Scouts tech lab, probably expecting banshee, researches cloak so he see's the tech lab working....doesn't cancel cloak, continues to banshee? xD
You want both a banshee and a raven anyway.
Yeah but why give him the free information of the tech lab researching with that 1 ling attacking it, was bit of a blunder.
On April 19 2017 19:33 pvsnp wrote: "No reason not to do this."
Terran's autoturret harass is their version of Archon drops.
It's even more frustrating in TvT because you don't have overlords to spot the raven, and you don't have queen near mineral line to soak up damage, so you usually lose more scv than the zergs lose drones. Fucking raven
On April 19 2017 19:35 Pandemona wrote: Losira defending much better..wonder if it is because he scouted everything and saw tech lab and it researching.... xD
On April 19 2017 19:32 Pandemona wrote: Double mind gamed? Scouts tech lab, probably expecting banshee, researches cloak so he see's the tech lab working....doesn't cancel cloak, continues to banshee? xD
You want both a banshee and a raven anyway.
Yeah but why give him the free information of the tech lab researching with that 1 ling attacking it, was bit of a blunder.
Hey, Ej is a RO16 Olimoleague player. He almost beat Patience last night. You show some respect!
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
Depends how many people watch on embed streams or without twitch account.
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
There is people like me that doesnt even have a twtich account to chat
On April 19 2017 19:54 Poopi wrote: sOs is still the most terrible Korean protoss among pro ones, impressive! Too bad he isn't in MajOr or Scarlett group
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
Depends how many people watch on embed streams or without twitch account.
I watch embedded from TL, because starcraft twitch chat is completely unbearable
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
Depends how many people watch on embed streams or without twitch account.
On April 19 2017 19:54 Poopi wrote: sOs is still the most terrible Korean protoss among pro ones, impressive! Too bad he isn't in MajOr or Scarlett group
Zest would like a word.
Zest didn't lose to foreigners as much as sOs. Nation wars was painful, sOs got humiliated by foreigners repeatedly.
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
Chat is for plebs. btw there are viewbots who can also chat
Did Inno make any other units than marines? Ohh right skillow mines.
Marauders, Vikings, Mines.
Four units makes a reasonable army. One does not.
You can't count.
Also there were obs cause of mines, viking because of warp prism, adepts work because it's marine based army, he wanted to make marauders but made like 1 because he was supply blocked like half game, SoS outplayed him, go whine about adepts somewhere else.
On April 19 2017 19:52 ionONE wrote: The gsl channel is once again supported by a viewbot, every time i watch sc2 in 2017. Barely 50 % people in the actually chat.
Chat is for plebs. btw there are viewbots who can also chat
I like to believe everyone is a viewbot on twitch chat. It would save my faith in humanity.
Also there were obs cause of mines, viking because of warp prism, adepts work because it's marine based army, he wanted to make marauders but made like 1 because he was supply blocked like half game, SoS outplayed him, go whine about adepts somewhere else.
Also there were obs cause of mines, viking because of warp prism, adepts work because it's marine based army, he wanted to make marauders but made like 1 because he was supply blocked like half game, SoS outplayed him, go whine about adepts somewhere else.
Marines, who doesn't make marines?
Why do you whine about people who make adepts then? You make no sense.
sOs is still the most terrible Korean protoss among pro ones, impressive! Too bad he isn't in MajOr or Scarlett group
He's still more than good enough to beat Losira/Impact. He'll get out of this group just fine.
Highest skill era.
Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
I've played protoss for 7 years. There was simply more to do in WoL and HotS. Now you're pigeonholed into a few standard builds because chronoboost sucks, offensive warpin sucks, overcharge is even more gimmicky now and new units cut into what you can do incredibly hard..
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else
I don't understand what was your problem with that still. Why is SoS not allowed to make core unit and rely on it, because everything else is trash, especially while it has outplaying potential, which happened that game. He outplayed inno there and got the win, what is your problem? Only terrans allowed to be skilled or what?
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
Balance issues completely aside (there was a nerf after all), watching only one unit massed to win is just kinda sickening. Not like the game was some super-low-eco insane micro victory either. I mean sOs did a good job, but watching it happen was just bleah.
When was the last time only lings or only marines won a non-cheese game?
sOs is still the most terrible Korean protoss among pro ones, impressive! Too bad he isn't in MajOr or Scarlett group
He's still more than good enough to beat Losira/Impact. He'll get out of this group just fine.
Highest skill era.
Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
Having more viable openings makes the game more complex, that's completely objective. And it makes it complex in a way that is both possible and neccessary to understand for a player, adding strategic depth.
On April 19 2017 20:19 pvsnp wrote: Balance issues completely aside (there was a nerf after all), watching only one unit massed to win is just kinda sickening. Not like the game was some super-low-eco insane micro victory either. I mean sOs did a good job, but watching it happen was just bleah.
When was the last time only marines or only lings won a non-cheese game?
I think we can all agree that mass adept is horrible to watch. But you can't fault players for it when nothing else works.
On April 19 2017 20:19 pvsnp wrote: Balance issues completely aside (there was a nerf after all), watching only one unit massed to win is just kinda sickening. Not like the game was some super-low-eco insane micro victory either. I mean sOs did a good job, but watching it happen was just bleah.
When was the last time only lings or only marines won a non-cheese game?
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Tell me how to buy time. Tell all the pros as well, while you're at it. I'm sure you know better.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
You scout it and you die. Great?
Why do you continue to argue with Poopi?
It feels like arguing with every Terran ever, and that just feels good.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
You scout it and you die. Great?
Why do you continue to argue with Poopi?
It feels like arguing with every Terran ever, and that just feels good.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Tell me how to buy time. Tell all the pros as well, while you're at it. I'm sure you know better.
LOL. Yeah it's not like pros are shitting on every terran for free since months. Like you are saying that pros struggle against terran "tank pushes", but foreigners terrans can't even qualify for qualifiers (see WCS), so yeah I guess the poor protoss are struggling against these pushes. Doesn't make sense. Dns 3-1ed uThermal, enough said :/.
On April 19 2017 19:55 pvsnp wrote: [quote] He's still more than good enough to beat Losira/Impact. He'll get out of this group just fine.
Highest skill era.
Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the addition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the addition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Tell me how to buy time. Tell all the pros as well, while you're at it. I'm sure you know better.
LOL. Yeah it's not like pros are shitting on every terran for free since months. Like you are saying that pros struggle against terran "tank pushes", but foreigners terrans can't even qualify for qualifiers (see WCS), so yeah I guess the poor protoss are struggling against these pushes. Doesn't make sense. Dns 3-1ed uThermal, enough said :/.
Foreign terrans have always been bad though. Meanwhile Korean Terrans won tournaments. Plus "for months" is a hilarious statement considering April had the first positive winrate for PvT since last year. We hit 41% for a while. Even Terrans admitted that Protoss sucked prior to the widow mine nerf. You just cannot keep ignoring this.
Phoenix/adept is good now because mines don't counter it well anymore. Tank pushes though were never addressed, and they'd already basically eliminated robo from the game even before adepts were nerfed as a core army unit.
On April 19 2017 20:02 Poopi wrote: [quote] Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I don't think it's chrono at all. It was far better in HotS and zerg was always ahead in workers. It's a mixture of zerg being forced into safe openings because of adepts, protoss pressure builds requiring zerg to make a TON of units until midgame (archon drop/3gate adept), and injects being nerfed as well.
On April 19 2017 20:02 Poopi wrote: [quote] Welp sOs won 2 blizzcon so we can see how much more skilled hots era was /s
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first occasionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
sOs is nowhere near as good as he used to be, as are a lot of other players.
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first ocassionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
Nexus first isn't safe in LotV and gate first has been safe ever since MSC was added.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Tell me how to buy time. Tell all the pros as well, while you're at it. I'm sure you know better.
LOL. Yeah it's not like pros are shitting on every terran for free since months. Like you are saying that pros struggle against terran "tank pushes", but foreigners terrans can't even qualify for qualifiers (see WCS), so yeah I guess the poor protoss are struggling against these pushes. Doesn't make sense. Dns 3-1ed uThermal, enough said :/.
Foreign terrans have always been bad though. Meanwhile Korean Terrans won tournaments. Plus "for months" is a hilarious statement considering April had the first positive winrate for PvT since last year. We hit 41% for a while. Even Terrans admitted that Protoss sucked prior to the widow mine nerf. You just cannot keep ignoring this.
Phoenix/adept is good now because mines don't counter it well anymore. Tank pushes though were never addressed, and they'd already basically eliminated robo from the game even before adepts were nerfed as a core army unit.
Yeah the goold old "foreign terrans" are bad, which is just not true. There are two explanations: terran is far harder (a lot of times the good explanation), that's why you can do fine while being less than perfect in certain areas as Z/P, as MarineLord said, and terran is shit. Post widow mine nerf it was the latter, since Korean terrans got shat on too. Winrate doesn't tell the whole story, protoss sucked before the liberator nerf, not widow mine nerf, protoss was very strong after the liberator nerf. Plus if you wanna argue "uh foreigners terrans suck", I can argue that Korean terrans, at least most of them, are better than the other players anyways, so they deserve to win. Which is kinda true, yet I don't use that as an argument, because it's a bs argument. edit: and korean terrans winning tournaments isn't really true, KR terrans won foreign tournaments against mostly far inferior opposition, whereas Protoss won the more prestigious KR tourneys with Stats and herO. So if we argue: "but TY won more $$ so terrans were doing better", then I guess Jaedong was as good in sc2 as he was in BW, since he made a shitton of money off of foreigners slaying.
Of course not, but I do expect them to make something else that can shoot too. Anything else.
Make robo viable again then.
Any protoss composition is viable tbh. At best it's not optimal, but never shit bad.
That's like saying mech is viable in TvP. At best it's not optimal, right? You know exactly what I meant. Robo gets countered way too hard by tank pushes, and the adept nerf actually makes that even worse. Robo is plain bad.
That doesn't make sense o;o. With robo you can scout if the terran is going for tank push or not, if he's not then you are pretty fine. If he is, you can buy time until you have tools to deal with it and be fine.
Tell me how to buy time. Tell all the pros as well, while you're at it. I'm sure you know better.
LOL. Yeah it's not like pros are shitting on every terran for free since months. Like you are saying that pros struggle against terran "tank pushes", but foreigners terrans can't even qualify for qualifiers (see WCS), so yeah I guess the poor protoss are struggling against these pushes. Doesn't make sense. Dns 3-1ed uThermal, enough said :/.
Foreign terrans have always been bad though. Meanwhile Korean Terrans won tournaments. Plus "for months" is a hilarious statement considering April had the first positive winrate for PvT since last year. We hit 41% for a while. Even Terrans admitted that Protoss sucked prior to the widow mine nerf. You just cannot keep ignoring this.
Phoenix/adept is good now because mines don't counter it well anymore. Tank pushes though were never addressed, and they'd already basically eliminated robo from the game even before adepts were nerfed as a core army unit.
Yeah the goold old "foreign terrans" are bad, which is just not true. There are two explanations: terran is far harder (a lot of times the good explanation), that's why you can do fine while being less than perfect in certain areas as Z/P, as MarineLord said, and terran is shit. Post widow mine nerf it was the latter, since Korean terrans got shat on too. Winrate doesn't tell the whole story, protoss sucked before the liberator nerf, not widow mine nerf, protoss was very strong after the liberator nerf. Plus if you wanna argue "uh foreigners terrans suck", I can argue that Korean terrans, at least most of them, are better than the other players anyways, so they deserve to win. Which is kinda true, yet I don't use that as an argument, because it's a bs argument. edit: and korean terrans winning tournaments isn't really true, KR terrans won foreign tournaments against mostly far inferior opposition, whereas Protoss won the more prestigious KR tourneys with Stats and herO.
Terran is more mechanically demanding, and that's the aspect that foreigners have always been far behind Koreans. That's why foreign Terrans were never at the level that their zergs/some protoss were. You need to be better mechanically to get the most out of Terran.
The liberator nerf changed essentially nothing. Winrates don't tell the whole story, yes, but over a span of a few months, they do become relevant. Anyway, I'm done arguing about this.
On April 19 2017 20:12 Aunvilgodess wrote: [quote]
You mean Protoss is worse at cheeses and all-ins.
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first ocassionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
Nexus first isn't safe in LotV and gate first has been safe ever since MSC was added.
Still, openings like gate nexus core with the first pylon on a super wide natural ramp weren't nearly as commonplace before LotV
I'd say protoss has perhaps a third of its strategical depth in LotV.
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first ocassionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
Nexus first isn't safe in LotV and gate first has been safe ever since MSC was added.
Still, openings like gate nexus core with the first pylon on a super wide natural ramp weren't nearly as commonplace before LotV
Gate-nexus-core with pylon & gate on the lowground was pretty standard for the last year of HotS
On April 19 2017 20:15 Aunvilgodess wrote: [quote]
"strategical depth".
People read so much into those games that isn't there. Like when casters are super amazed when somebody flips a coin and go like OMG HE KNEW IT!
chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first ocassionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
Nexus first isn't safe in LotV and gate first has been safe ever since MSC was added.
Still, openings like gate nexus core with the first pylon on a super wide natural ramp weren't nearly as commonplace before LotV
Gate-nexus-core with pylon & gate on the lowground was pretty standard for the last year of HotS
Greatly exhibited in Life vs Classic and Life vs sOs where they both defend 9pool flawlessly on Coda.
On April 19 2017 20:42 Elentos wrote: Reviewing what has happened earlier today, lol INnoVation won a game on Deadwing even though he didn't remember what the spawns were.
I find it interesting how noone mentions that the game actually shows you the spawns
On April 19 2017 20:42 Elentos wrote: Reviewing what has happened earlier today, lol INnoVation won a game on Deadwing even though he didn't remember what the spawns were.
On April 19 2017 20:17 Olli wrote: [quote] chronoboost sucks
meanwhile here I am, behind in workers every ZvP
Because inject sucks too, and you're forced to make units early to defend aggression. Little to do with chronoboost.
I think the 12 worker start (or even the eddition of the mothership core if you want to go that far back) changes more than injects. The fact that protoss can forgo forge openings completely allows protoss to pretty much always be the aggressor in the early game
it's really just because of the adept+chrono. With 6 workers chrono would be even stronger early game.
I was thinking of early pools more than the number itself. I think they played in important role in limiting what openings were viable for protoss. Of course people still opened nexus first ocassionally but adding an opening as aggressive as 6 pool strongly shifts the Nash equilibrium toward safer openings
Nexus first isn't safe in LotV and gate first has been safe ever since MSC was added.
Still, openings like gate nexus core with the first pylon on a super wide natural ramp weren't nearly as commonplace before LotV
Gate-nexus-core with pylon & gate on the lowground was pretty standard for the last year of HotS
Greatly exhibited in Life vs Classic and Life vs sOs where they both defend 9pool flawlessly on Coda.
I do believe in at least Classic's case it was a 6-pool too.
On April 19 2017 20:42 Elentos wrote: Reviewing what has happened earlier today, lol INnoVation won a game on Deadwing even though he didn't remember what the spawns were.
I find it interesting how noone mentions that the game actually shows you the spawns
On April 19 2017 20:51 Seeker wrote: Anyone want to explain what happened in Game 2? I was in the kitchen getting food :/
Losira was gonna nydus, Impact was massing roaches. Losira ended up with no +2 and cancelled nydus vs +2 for Impact, decided to all-in push with roaches and queens, didn't work.
On April 20 2017 00:27 Seeker wrote: Dat Adept nerf hit sOs too hard it seems :/
Him and herO seem to rely the most on adepts, will be interesting to see if herO adapts better.
herO will do much better with the control of adepts. With the first 2 adepts alone, herO should kill like 2 to 4 drones already as he gets into the base, kill drones and then shade out and keep doing that over and over again. herO's adept style is all about harass and get economy lead. sOs is definition of shading-3-places-at-once adepts as he will get a bunch of adepts and split them between 3 bases and kill drones. By the time he gets enough adepts to do so, Zerg should have enough lings + banes to defend + nerf -10 HP will help the Zerg clean up even faster.
Ok i've got one more ride in the tank for the Inno hype train. After that i'm done.
It's a bit early to be getting on. The Inno hype train doesn't really have much steam right now. Say, if he gets to the GSL+SSL finals, then that will be some real hype.
And if he wins them both....then we might be able to talk Bonjwa.
Bonjwa discussions aren't worth it, let's just make him goat, that's good enough.
Well at this point, I think Mvp still has the strongest claim to the GOAT, albeit only by a smidge. After him would be Life, who is kinda disqualified anyway, but after that it gets murkier.
Currently, the only two people that could be contenders are Zest (if he gets back into form soonish) and INnoVation (if he can keep his form high). Nobody else currently playing has the legacy to buck for the GOAT at this point. If either of them went on a rampage for six months or so there'd be a strong case for supplanting Mvp. At least imo.
Bonjwa discussions aren't worth it, let's just make him goat, that's good enough.
Well at this point, I think Mvp still has the strongest claim to the GOAT, albeit only by a smidge. After him would be Life, who is kinda disqualified anyway, but after that it gets murkier.
Currently, the only two people that could be contenders are Zest (if he gets back into form soonish) and INnoVation (if he can keep his form high). Nobody else currently playing has the legacy to buck for the GOAT at this point. If either of them went on a rampage for six months or so there'd be a strong case for supplanting Mvp. At least imo.
Oh. I didn't know Zest and Inno crushed their opposition whilst dealing with the worst imbalance ever and a broken back.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1101.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3222.jpg)
sOs vs 
Impact![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/688.jpg)
INnoVation vs 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BusKfKu.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://thesourcingcrowd.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a5cItt8.jpg)
