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On March 27 2017 22:25 Aunvilgodess wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2017 22:08 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:42 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 21:41 Elentos wrote:On March 27 2017 21:40 Penev wrote:
sOs is as disgustingly bad as he's disgustingly good I see the disgusting part and the bad part but the good part is lost on me. I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. Point is, I find Rains skill to be much more interesting and noteworthy and admireable. I think it requires more training and more talent. And who knows, maybe Rain just found it too boring to flip so many coins.
Those are different ideas. You can like whichever players you want, I'm not questioning your taste. But if you're going to play a race that requires superior unpredictability and superior positioning to compensate less microable units (I know it's not exactly accurate, it's more of a schematic idea), it is objectively bad to ditch unpredictability and focus only on superior positioning.
That's like saying okay, I'm terran and I'm going to choose a strat that requires very little micro and multitask. Like, I'm sure you could do it, and I would probably enjoy it more than actual terran since I don't find that impressive. But it wouldn't make much logical sense given the characteristics of your race.
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Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
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On March 28 2017 01:53 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2017 22:25 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 22:08 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:42 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 21:41 Elentos wrote:On March 27 2017 21:40 Penev wrote:
sOs is as disgustingly bad as he's disgustingly good I see the disgusting part and the bad part but the good part is lost on me. I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. Point is, I find Rains skill to be much more interesting and noteworthy and admireable. I think it requires more training and more talent. And who knows, maybe Rain just found it too boring to flip so many coins. Those are different ideas. You can like whichever players you want, I'm not questioning your taste. But if you're going to play a race that requires superior unpredictability and superior positioning to compensate less microable units (I know it's not exactly accurate, it's more of a schematic idea), it is objectively bad to ditch unpredictability and focus only on superior positioning. That's like saying okay, I'm terran and I'm going to choose a strat that requires very little micro and multitask. Like, I'm sure you could do it, and I would probably enjoy it more than actual terran since I don't find that impressive. But it wouldn't make much logical sense given the characteristics of your race. did you miss when terran pros decided to break tvz in hots by going mech into air every game
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Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
Solar and Stats are conservative. Pretty bold to pick two others that are currently 0-2 though, not to mention picking them over guys like ByuL, Inno, or Dark.
In fact if I had to pick somebody for last place, it would probably be aLive. He basically handed ByuL the wins, and skipping out against Patience to beat foreigners doesn't exactly trumpet his own confidence.
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On March 28 2017 01:53 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2017 22:25 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 22:08 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:42 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 21:41 Elentos wrote:On March 27 2017 21:40 Penev wrote:
sOs is as disgustingly bad as he's disgustingly good I see the disgusting part and the bad part but the good part is lost on me. I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. Point is, I find Rains skill to be much more interesting and noteworthy and admireable. I think it requires more training and more talent. And who knows, maybe Rain just found it too boring to flip so many coins. Those are different ideas. You can like whichever players you want, I'm not questioning your taste. But if you're going to play a race that requires superior unpredictability and superior positioning to compensate less microable units (I know it's not exactly accurate, it's more of a schematic idea), it is objectively bad to ditch unpredictability and focus only on superior positioning. That's like saying okay, I'm terran and I'm going to choose a strat that requires very little micro and multitask. Like, I'm sure you could do it, and I would probably enjoy it more than actual terran since I don't find that impressive. But it wouldn't make much logical sense given the characteristics of your race.
I know. I am not saying that sOs abused Protoss because of him being a bad person or anything. I am saying that Protoss could be abused more, and that in doing that he didn't show as much skill as others when winning. Because unpredictability and multitasking are two very different skills.
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On March 28 2017 01:53 SilentRaven wrote:
Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
current top 4 (Solar, Stats, INno, ByuL)
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On March 28 2017 08:00 pvsnp wrote:Solar and Stats are conservative. Pretty bold to pick two others that are currently 0-2 though, not to mention picking them over guys like ByuL, Inno, or Dark. In fact if I had to pick somebody for last place, it would probably be aLive. He basically handed ByuL the wins, and skipping out against Patience to beat foreigners doesn't exactly trumpet his own confidence.
I have my reasons, what are your picks then?
I think aLive honoring a prior commitment is admirable and I wouldn't count getting 2-0'd in a BO3 series quite as definitive as you're making it sound.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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On March 28 2017 08:16 Aunvilgodess wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2017 01:53 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 22:25 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 22:08 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote:On March 27 2017 21:42 Nebuchad wrote:On March 27 2017 21:41 Elentos wrote:On March 27 2017 21:40 Penev wrote:
sOs is as disgustingly bad as he's disgustingly good I see the disgusting part and the bad part but the good part is lost on me. I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. Point is, I find Rains skill to be much more interesting and noteworthy and admireable. I think it requires more training and more talent. And who knows, maybe Rain just found it too boring to flip so many coins. Those are different ideas. You can like whichever players you want, I'm not questioning your taste. But if you're going to play a race that requires superior unpredictability and superior positioning to compensate less microable units (I know it's not exactly accurate, it's more of a schematic idea), it is objectively bad to ditch unpredictability and focus only on superior positioning. That's like saying okay, I'm terran and I'm going to choose a strat that requires very little micro and multitask. Like, I'm sure you could do it, and I would probably enjoy it more than actual terran since I don't find that impressive. But it wouldn't make much logical sense given the characteristics of your race. I know. I am not saying that sOs abused Protoss because of him being a bad person or anything. I am saying that Protoss could be abused more, and that in doing that he didn't show as much skill as others when winning. Because unpredictability and multitasking are two very different skills.
What you think you're saying is that he didn't show as much skill as others when winning. What you're actually saying is that you don't care about the particular skills that he showed to win. Which is fine, again, that's your prerogative.
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I have my reasons, what are your picks then?
I think aLive honoring a prior commitment is admirable and I wouldn't count getting 2-0'd in a BO3 series quite as definitive as you're making it sound.
I'd say Stats and Inno are practically guaranteed, and then two of ByuL/Solar/Dark. In no particular order then, Dark, Solar, Inno, Stats. I'm not a gambler 
I put aLive in at last because he historically does much better in shorter/foreign/online tourneys, and is already off to a bad start. As I said in the LR thread, he committed the cardinal sin of TvZ in letting ByuL macro uncontested, and he did it twice. Making such a basic mistake, then giving up against Patience (somebody he had a good shot against), is not a good sign moving forward. To advance he's going to have to at least hold his own against guys like Stats or Dark and that's an uphill battle to say the least.
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On March 28 2017 01:53 SilentRaven wrote:
Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
From sOs' performance today, I would say the best result for him is to stay in Premier league next season, depending on how many "won game" he will lost again like set 3.
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On March 28 2017 10:16 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +I have my reasons, what are your picks then?
I think aLive honoring a prior commitment is admirable and I wouldn't count getting 2-0'd in a BO3 series quite as definitive as you're making it sound.
I'd say Stats and Inno are practically guaranteed, and then two of ByuL/Solar/Dark. In no particular order then, Dark, Solar, Inno, Stats. I'm not a gambler I put aLive in at last because he historically does much better in shorter/foreign/online tourneys, and is already off to a bad start. As I said in the LR thread, he committed the cardinal sin of TvZ in letting ByuL macro uncontested, and he did it twice. Making such a basic mistake, then giving up against Patience (somebody he had a good shot against), is not a good sign moving forward. To advance he's going to have to at least hold his own against guys like Stats or Dark and that's an uphill battle to say the least.
Fair enough. If calling me a gambler is your kind way of calling me batshit crazy, I can't completely disagree. However, I think saying aLive gave up is too much. aLive is teamless, don't you think showing commitment to play in a tournament goes a long way? Especially, in light of the recent controversies with solar and byun. Plus, as far as I know aLive isn't rich, why not take easy money? It doesn't mean he's going to be less committed going forward, especially in an offline event. If you are privy to more info, do share though.
Not too long ago, Byul was baneling busting Stats in GSL and losing but he's pulling it together as of late. If I just got spanked and forfeited, I would want to have a stronger showing going forward, but I do agree with in terms of aLive's endurance.
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On March 28 2017 11:50 Alarak89 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2017 01:53 SilentRaven wrote:
Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
From sOs' performance today, I would say the best result for him is to stay in Premier league next season, depending on how many "won game" he will lost again like set 3.
Game 3 hurt. Still marrying up the tactics and execution. I still believe.
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Fair enough. If calling me a gambler is your kind way of calling me batshit crazy, I can't completely disagree. However, I think saying aLive gave up is too much. aLive is teamless, don't you think showing commitment to play in a tournament goes a long way? Especially, in light of the recent controversies with solar and byun. Plus, as far as I know aLive isn't rich, why not take easy money? It doesn't mean he's going to be less committed going forward, especially in an offline event. If you are privy to more info, do share though.
Not too long ago, Byul was baneling busting Stats in GSL and losing but he's pulling it together as of late. If I just got spanked and forfeited, I would want to have a stronger showing going forward, but I do agree with in terms of aLive's endurance.
Oh, perhaps I chose my words poorly. By "giving up" I meant literally that he is on the official record as 0-2 against Patience, not anything about his mental state or decision-making process.
It looks to me that he chose money over prestige since SSL was always going to be a long shot while Ting offers a disproportionate payout relative to its difficulty. I can't fault him for that kind of reasoning, assuming that's what he thought.
The source I'm using is the SPOTV FB post, which only says that aLive agreed to the penalty of taking an 0-2 and not being paid his usual loser's fee + spectator revenue.
1. (T)Bogus: Just based on his long history of consistency
2. (P)Stats: Can't not put him here based on his results in 2017 so far
3. (Z)ByuL: He's only played players he should beat so far in SSL, but looks great lately
4. (T)Maru: He'll be back
5. (Z)Solar: Looks middle of the road and off to a good start. Defending SSL champ.
6. (Z)Dark: Top 2 Zerg currently, but will be exposed as overrated this season
7. (P)Zest: His main source of woe is PvT. PvP he's still a god and his PvZ isn't bad either.
8. (P)Patience: Always does better than expected..
9. (T)aLive: Off to a bad start. He needed to beat Patience...
10. (P)sOs: Moneybags has no time for low prize-money :p
Not at all a bad prediction imo, your "asspull" description notwithstanding.
Inno, Stats, ByuL are all safe picks.
Maru I'm not so sure about given today's performance but if he can bounce back I guess.
Solar looking very solid but we haven't seen his ZvT and historically it is his worst matchup.
Dark went down to Inno, can't blame him (or anyone) for that and I can't see him losing to anyone else but Stats.
Zest is definitely still shaky, his PvZ is decent but his PvT is awful.
Patience is a wild card and has a history of killing Inno of all people.
aLive I've already talked about.
sOs is kinda screwed.
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On March 28 2017 12:17 SilentRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2017 11:50 Alarak89 wrote:On March 28 2017 01:53 SilentRaven wrote:
Predict no particular order - solar, stats, aLive and sOs.
From sOs' performance today, I would say the best result for him is to stay in Premier league next season, depending on how many "won game" he will lost again like set 3. Game 3 hurt. Still marrying up the tactics and execution. I still believe.
I don't know, he is using some stupid builds on ladder when streaming and won a lot, but never use them in offline games and lost 3 matches in a row now. I really doubt he will move on to playoffs.
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EPT
