EPTOn March 27 2017 21:42 Nebuchad wrote:
I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it
I don't really understand how it's possible to miss it
Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill.
[SSL 2017] Premier Division - Week 2 - Page 17
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:45 killerm12 wrote: I wish we could get them into SC:Remastered post this in a bw lr and i declare you bravest dude ever | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote: Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12615 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:46 Aunvilgodess wrote: Well depends on whether you think that abusing your race to the fullest is skill. "Abusing your race" generally means playing well while protoss. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:50 Nebuchad wrote: "Abusing your race" generally means playing well while protoss. means playing well with any race | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On March 27 2017 21:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Ofc it is skill. Every player who tries to win absuses the race to some extent. Winning is the only real measurement of skill, everything else is just biased I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12615 Posts
On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote: I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 27 2017 22:03 Aunvilgodess wrote: I do think that sOs abused the lack of defenders advantage and all the early game tools of Protoss more than players like Rain. Rain abused other things of the race then. You cannot "win" without "abusing" aspects of your race. Ofc the extent (or the perception of it) might vary though | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On March 27 2017 22:08 Nebuchad wrote: Rain was terrible at protoss. Arguably the fact that he was so successful with protoss while being so terrible at protoss means that he was one of the very best starcraft players. Point is, I find Rains skill to be much more interesting and noteworthy and admireable. I think it requires more training and more talent. And who knows, maybe Rain just found it too boring to flip so many coins. | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On March 27 2017 22:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: Rain abused other things of the race then. You cannot "win" without "abusing" aspects of your race. Ofc the extent (or the perception of it) might vary though Using all of your tools is not abuse, in my book. I'd call "abuse" using something that is broken or should not be the way it is. Luckily Protoss got fixed in LotV. I wouldn't call playing LingBlingMuta abuse because it is very difficult to play and is on of the most fun to watch styles in the game. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I mean i personally dislike players like Has, i emotionally also think it is "wrong" that he can do what he does. That's biased though and i know it is. (so i am a hypocrit i guess) You play what gives you the biggest chance of winning the game. So you play what works. If i can make X work most of the time i will do that. If it was easy to do what sOs/Has do then every toss would simply do it. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Damn Maru -. - | ||
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SilentRaven
52 Posts
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Princess Bride. | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On March 27 2017 23:03 The_Red_Viper wrote: All you do here is arbitrarily defining that one thing is "broken" and the other is not. I mean i personally dislike players like Has, i emotionally also think it is "wrong" that he can do what he does. That's biased though and i know it is. (so i am a hypocrit i guess) You play what gives you the biggest chance of winning the game. So you play what works. If i can make X work most of the time i will do that. If it was easy to do what sOs/Has do then every toss would simply do it. KIND OF arbitrarily. Yes, I am defining stuff as "broken" but not randomly. That is somewhat biased but not entirely. >If it was easy to do what sOs/Has do then every toss would simply do it. I disagree. There may be other reasons not to play like that. Also in LotV it is obviously not as effective any more. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
At the end of the day something becomes standard because a majority of people play like that though. Why? Because for them it wins games on a consistent basis. I think that's all that really matters, winning games on a conistent basis. Do whatever works. And yes i am a hypocrite because i also have strogn opinions on how the game "should be played" | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On March 27 2017 23:55 The_Red_Viper wrote: Not randomly, you have emotional reasons for it. Emotional reasons to think that playing "standard" is more valuable than playing like sOs/Has. At the end of the day something becomes standard because a majority of people play like that though. Why? Because for them it wins games on a consistent basis. I think that's all that really matters, winning games on a conistent basis. Do whatever works. And yes i am a hypocrite because i also have strogn opinions on how the game "should be played" They may be emotional, but not only emotional. I have (imo) good reasons for my definitions. Like the amount of guessing involved and therefore the amount of counterplay possible, the amount of multitasking necessary. The ladder of which is imo the reason for the nearly unlimited skillcap of RTS. | ||
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SilentRaven
52 Posts
Notwithstanding, the amount of ridiculous tears that will be shed over the year - can't wait. Plus, shitposting is always fun especially when people take themselves way too seriously. Still long way to go, but am curious on people's pick for top four for Premier? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 28 2017 00:16 Aunvilgodess wrote: They may be emotional, but not only emotional. I have (imo) good reasons for my definitions. Like the amount of guessing involved and therefore the amount of counterplay possible, the amount of multitasking necessary. The ladder of which is imo the reason for the nearly unlimited skillcap of RTS. Well but the thing you mentiond are always on a spectrum right? You have to guess in starcraft because you cannot have 100% information. That's true for even basic things like where to position your units. So i think it is basically arbitrary where we put the line between acceptable "guessing" and unacceptable one. This might read like nitpicking and it probably is, but i also think there is truth to it. Especially when we consider that not any random guy could do the same, there is a reason that players like sOs are as successful as they are. He is one of the very best players, his excellence simply manifests itself differently than for say Rain. Ofc all this talk doesn't prevent me from getting mad when sOs beats someone i personally respect more. Like back when Jaedong lost to sOs, i was pretty bad i can tell you that. I don't like sOs one bit. I also think that mechanical prowess is in general more interesting to watch. At the same time i think it's really cool when TY does a new build abusing some aspect of terran. It's biased  On March 28 2017 00:23 SilentRaven wrote: If a person can't see their own biases, trying to have a meaningful conversation with them is a lost cause because they don't even understand themselves. Notwithstanding, the amount of ridiculous tears that will be shed over the year - can't wait. Plus, shitposting is always fun especially when people take themselves way too seriously. Still long way to go, but am curious on people's pick for top four for Premier? Pretty much everybody is biased in certain ways. You just have to hit the right buttons and the most logical person ever will show extreme biases no matter what. That's simply human. Top4? I guess Dark, Innovation and Stats should definitely make it. The last pick is a bit tricky. Could be almost anybody | ||
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SilentRaven
52 Posts
Well but the thing you mentiond are always on a spectrum right? You have to guess in starcraft because you cannot have 100% information. That's true for even basic things like where to position your units. So i think it is basically arbitrary where we put the line between acceptable "guessing" and unacceptable one. This might read like nitpicking and it probably is, but i also think there is truth to it. Especially when we consider that not any random guy could do the same, there is a reason that players like sOs are as successful as they are. He is one of the very best players, his excellence simply manifests itself differently than for say Rain. Ofc all this talk doesn't prevent me from getting mad when sOs beats someone i personally respect more. Like back when Jaedong lost to sOs, i was pretty bad i can tell you that. I don't like sOs one bit. I also think that mechanical prowess is in general more interesting to watch. At the same time i think it's really cool when TY does a new build abusing some aspect of terran. It's biased On March 28 2017 00:23 SilentRaven wrote: If a person can't see their own biases, trying to have a meaningful conversation with them is a lost cause because they don't even understand themselves. Notwithstanding, the amount of ridiculous tears that will be shed over the year - can't wait. Plus, shitposting is always fun especially when people take themselves way too seriously. Still long way to go, but am curious on people's pick for top four for Premier? Pretty much everybody is biased in certain ways. You just have to hit the right buttons and the most logical person ever will show extreme biases no matter what. That's simply human. Top4? I guess Dark, Innovation and Stats should definitely make it. The last pick is a bit tricky. Could be almost anybody[/QUOTE] Yeah, I prefer tactics over mechanical prowess which makes sense considering my bias. Those are the safe picks, I keep thinking Inno won't and I feel more sure that he won't win. Ehhhh I usually go against the grain. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
 Last pick is interesting though, atm solar or byul look like the most obvious picks but i can also see maru or zest making it tbh | ||
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