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19533 Posts
On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting
I have no problem to argue about Life's achievements even though he matchfixed at the end. Anybody who has a problem with that is childish imo.
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On March 03 2017 03:49 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:48 starkiller123 wrote:On March 03 2017 03:46 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:43 munch wrote:On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments. Double GSL / Blizzcup / BlizzCon. That's before you get to counting his 6 more weekenders, dual dh winter silvers, and blizzcon silver I mean i get that, but he really should have done better in GSL for his massive talent. As i said before, i personally don't value weekend tournaments as much (blizzcon is oen as well tbh, even though it's obviously the one with the most prestige) I simply think a lot of players are fairly close when you look at the overall results. For example a guy who does consistently well in GSL/SSL (ro8, ro4 finishes) and also wins like two of them is pretty much on the same lvl in my book. Especially when he also did well in proleague, i think proleague should be a factor there as well. Who would you put ahead of Life? I'd put EJ ahead of Life
It's pretty obvious, I have better teamleague results.
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On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting
because he was a really good player obviously, relax
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19533 Posts
On March 03 2017 03:48 starkiller123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:46 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:43 munch wrote:On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments. Double GSL / Blizzcup / BlizzCon. That's before you get to counting his 6 more weekenders, dual dh winter silvers, and blizzcon silver I mean i get that, but he really should have done better in GSL for his massive talent. As i said before, i personally don't value weekend tournaments as much (blizzcon is oen as well tbh, even though it's obviously the one with the most prestige) I simply think a lot of players are fairly close when you look at the overall results. For example a guy who does consistently well in GSL/SSL (ro8, ro4 finishes) and also wins like two of them is pretty much on the same lvl in my book. Especially when he also did well in proleague, i think proleague should be a factor there as well. Who would you put ahead of Life?
Well i don't know exactly IF i would put somebody ahead of him. I am simply saying that other guys who also won 2 starleagues, had high finishes in others and did well in proleague seem close enough. I don't think there is a huge gap.
On March 03 2017 03:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Using proleague as an argument for Life's skill is a bit weird to say the least.
It's not about skill. It's about his place in sc2 history/achievements. Proleague is part of that. Unless you wanna imply he lost all the games on purpose there? I mean i don't know.
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On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax
There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about.
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one more chance for aLive to be featured on the main stream but if he is it's probably a game that only decides placing..
poor guy
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On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about.
I can't talk about Neeb or jjakji without talking trash :/
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On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about.
Lol it's so funny that jjakji is the only gsl champion in this group
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On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about.
i'm not even talking about him but i'm for sure not trying to sensor people who are
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On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments.
I really wish Life wasn't arrested/banned. Out of every Korean to go up against the "new level" of foreigners, he would have been the biggest challenge. Same with Maru a little I guess.
Never forgetr Life's trash talk to lilbow/foreigners in general
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19533 Posts
On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about.
Nobody of them is close to the lvl though :/
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this move out is hella dope tho
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On March 03 2017 03:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:44 Ej_ wrote:On March 03 2017 03:43 munch wrote:On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments. Double GSL / Blizzcup / BlizzCon. That's before you get to counting his 6 more weekenders, dual dh winter silvers, and blizzcon silver barely beat crippled Mvp with BL/inf on his side I really have to research Mvp's condition again. Stuchiu always pointing out how "crippled" Mvp was manipulated me enough so i have no idea about the reality anymore. There was a documentation i think. "rise of the king" or something like that.
He suffered from Cervical Kyphosis & severe wrist issues.
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On March 03 2017 03:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:44 Ej_ wrote:On March 03 2017 03:43 munch wrote:On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments. Double GSL / Blizzcup / BlizzCon. That's before you get to counting his 6 more weekenders, dual dh winter silvers, and blizzcon silver barely beat crippled Mvp with BL/inf on his side I really have to research Mvp's condition again. Stuchiu always pointing out how "crippled" Mvp was manipulated me enough so i have no idea about the reality anymore. There was a documentation i think. "rise of the king" or something like that.
There's definitely a lot of historical revisionism that has happened the last couple years, mainly propagated by TL writers because they are the ones with the most influence. I can't remember specific examples(except the idea MVP was unbeatable during his peak when in reality he always had major weaknesses versus protoss), but every now and then I'll read something and think to myself "that's not right"
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first you tell me Mvp wasn't bonjwa, next that holocaust didn't happen
e: let this post mark the moment the term "Mvp revisionism" was coined
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On March 03 2017 03:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about. Nobody of them is close to the lvl though :/
Can't you at least wait until stuchiu releases his next Mvp article though?
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On March 03 2017 03:55 Ej_ wrote:
first you tell me Mvp wasn't bonjwa, next that holocaust didn't happen
e: let this post mark the moment the term "Mvp revisionism" was coined
Do we have prove Mvp really happened?
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19533 Posts
On March 03 2017 03:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 03 2017 03:51 Elentos wrote:On March 03 2017 03:49 Penev wrote:On March 03 2017 03:47 sharkie wrote:
Why are you guys arguing about a piece of shit (Life)? Stop talking about match fixers. They are disgusting because he was a really good player obviously, relax There are 6 really good players playing games for the past few hours you could be talking about. Nobody of them is close to the lvl though :/ Can't you at least wait until stuchiu releases his next Mvp article though?
Haha i guess i could do that 
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On March 03 2017 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2017 03:37 Philozovic wrote:On March 03 2017 03:34 Pandain wrote:On March 03 2017 03:23 pvsnp wrote:Nah definitely most competitive level was 2013 when we had the Kespa invasion, and still all the pro players from esf and foreigners still around .
Not that the skill level hasn't kept improving over time, but that was definitely the greatest quantity of talent. Meaning the best players would have to be Life and INnoVation. Ugh don't mention his name. Favorite player and had chance to be GOAT and then threw it all away for money. Breaks my heart honestly, I can't even watch old games of his anymore. But back to your point, definitely could make that argument. Not really an argument to be fair, life is the greatest bar none. Sure he lost some games on purpose, doesn't change the fact than when he won it was fair and square. Life is also a bit overhyped tbh. He had a lot of mediocre results in korea, never did well in proleague. It's probably fair to distribute that to him not beign motivated but still. But yeah that's me valuing weekend tournaments A LOT LESS than korean tournaments.
He won 3 Korean premiers, two of them being code S and 10 premiers total (2 MLG among the most stack of all time, 1 blizzcon, 1 blizzcup, 2 Code S, 2 IEM, 1 DH and IS2 reversing all kill DRG in the finals)
The only player with more tournament win is Taeja but 3 of them are Homestory cup and none a Korean premier
The only player with a comparative set of wins is mvp with 3 code S (2 of them beating MarineKong in finals) and one bullshit pin with less value than life blizzcon
His "blizzcon" win is him 4-3 Nestea
He didn't even have to beat a single Korean to win WCG
He won one IEM beting all the european patch zergs
His MLG win is the only tournament appart from code S that had value
Two Code S finals also
So yeah I don't see how someone can argue that life isn't #1 mvp is #2 for sure
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