On June 14 2016 06:49 Liquid`Snute wrote:
yeah, i don't think sticking to zerg was a very smart choice for legacy, it's a bit late to switch but after a game like that i'm more convinced than ever that protoss is the way to go if you want to play this game professionally

I have a feeling that thought did not come AFTER the game. It looked like you went into the late game with that exact feeling of “I can’t win anyway” and played the game the way you played it to prove a point. As an example, you played like a poker player who calls an opponent who just obviously hit his draw, just to prove how unlucky he is.
I doubt that you really thought that what you did had a chance to win the game. I also wonder if at any point, not in hindsight but at that moment, you should have played differently if you had a better mindset.

Because this game seems untypical of you. Usually you play extremely smart and strategical and that is why I love to see your games – this seemed like bashing your head into a brick wall. The problem is an OP army and your approach was to charge headfirst right into this army right into its strongest most fortified point. I don’t claim to have a failproof answer for what to do instead, but surely there has to be a better way.

What I thought was to attack him where his army is not. I know I neither have the skill to execute this nor to even get to that point, I don’t even know if it would work. But for example you destroyed his main, but after that you just stopped attacking that position. Why not go further when his army in the middle anyway? You can make a Nydus in his main, tear down his old bases, his tech, then go further and threaten his active bases. If he doesn’t come back, good, just keep going, destroy his side of the map, you kill him faster than he kills you. If he comes back, good, you go back into your Nydus, too.

Liquid`Snute

Norway839 Posts

June 14 2016 21:51 GMT

#27

On June 15 2016 02:54 Jacenoob wrote:

Show nested quote +

myeah ... thanks for the feedback, it's good to read stuff like this now and then

the strategy i attempted after the failed hydra ling baneling attack was a solution i used against terran mech a while before lotv release. i didn't get to show it in any official matches with 1000+ viewers back then sadly. it was super hilarious, effective, and fun to watch once the attack waves actually hit. it was basically unstoppable, wave after wave, cleaning up everything on the ground and then the skies. so it might have seemed untypical for me to do this strat yesterday, but it's actually something i used quite a bit in the past to win games (just not vs protoss). so yeah, really bad by me to use this experiment in an online cup when i only made it work vs terran mech in a different expansion, LOL... yeah..

+ Show Spoiler [more] +

the idea was to use a medium size army to go up to as many drones as possible, bank hard, sac drones, and have multiple true 200/200 armies in quick succession break through. it was a really good strategy back in hots vs terran that i won vs top mech players and broke "OP armies" with. so i decided i wanted to try it against protoss

obviously turned out to be a bad idea..

and like you say, the best way to play seems to be to attack where the protoss is not ~

but i didn't forfeit the match before it even began. i think no players ever do this honestly, unless they're matchfixing. even when they have a broken mindset vs a certain race, they still try, even if their natural level might not be up to par and they end up looking weak. it's easy to imagine things based off of one losing performance but i think only matchfixers do not play to win. if i was a better player on average, i probably would not have attempted to use this strategy at all and have a better idea in the toolbox to win with. didn't do it to prove a point or anything, it's just player skillset weakness. just some airhead-craft and #creative ideas gone wrong.

i talked about the end-game with other players and the conclusion is pretty much another 'kill them before they get there' and there seems to be an upper limit where protoss end-game is essentially untouchable. yesterday's game was artificial in the sense that no zerg (that's not me) will ever let the game reach this point and try this solution probably. so yeah. this strategy was a thing in hots zvt, but probably won't ever be a thing in lotv.

as long as it's balanced %-wise and Zerg aggro has potential and strength, it probably is ok to have KillThemBeforeTheyGetThere in the game. People didn't like BL/infestor, but if Protoss defensive tools are proven to be breakable enough or starve-able enough by the competent majority, it's fine. Just up to me to catch up to that level personally. i guess i was just a little annoyed after the match about another head to the wall but hopefully skill will come with time

my bad for playing to the wrong ideals and ending up doing silly experiments that should be left to imagination and common sense! T_T

Charoisaur

Germany15869 Posts

June 14 2016 22:45 GMT

#28

Nothing wrong with trying experiments in tournament games, just shouldn't complain about balance when those experiments fail

stilt

France2736 Posts

June 14 2016 23:25 GMT

#29

On June 15 2016 07:45 Charoisaur wrote:
Nothing wrong with trying experiments in tournament games, just shouldn't complain about balance when those experiments fail

Well, this radical experiment came after the conclusion:"kill them before they got the skytoss". Moreover, you should begin to follow your own advice, you would gain some credibilty...

Charoisaur

Germany15869 Posts

June 15 2016 00:44 GMT

#30

On June 15 2016 08:25 stilt wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, this radical experiment came after the conclusion:"kill them before they got the skytoss". Moreover, you should begin to follow your own advice, you would gain some credibilty...

fortunately I don't give a single fuck about what a random forum guy with less than 100 posts thinks about the credibility of my statements. Also you will be hard pressed to find me complaining about balance.