★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (2)
7%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (1)
3%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (0)
0%
30 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 2?
★★★★ - Great game. (22)
71%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (5)
16%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (3)
10%
★★★ - Good game. (1)
3%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (0)
0%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 3?
★★★ - Good game. (12)
48%
★★★★ - Great game. (9)
36%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (2)
8%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (1)
4%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 4?
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (14)
54%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (7)
27%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (4)
15%
★★★★ - Great game. (1)
4%
★★★ - Good game. (0)
0%
26 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 4?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 5?
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (8)
40%
★★★★ - Great game. (5)
25%
★★★ - Good game. (4)
20%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (2)
10%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (1)
5%
20 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 5?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 6?
★★★★ - Great game. (7)
41%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (4)
24%
★★★ - Good game. (3)
18%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (2)
12%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (1)
6%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 6?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 7?
★★★ - Good game. (7)
41%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (3)
18%
★★★★ - Great game. (3)
18%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (2)
12%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (2)
12%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 7?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
this is pvp we are talking about, i doubt we get an other 4-0
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
LOL no, TY lost 2-0 to Dear CORRECTION: This has been a Dear, TY and Zest tournament.
LOL, Even if Zest is better in PvT, Dear is better in PvZ, so if Dear beats Zest, then HE WILL BE BEST PROTOSS, cuz he is also better in PvP, same thing goes for Zest, if he beats Dear then he is best Protoss. (Echoing Tasteless' comment)
You know what would be to worse than swapping the colors in the day 1 banner? Getting them correctly in the day 2 banner. Both must be either right or wrong. Consistency guys!!!!
On April 22 2016 18:41 Diabolique wrote: Why are they competing for the best Protoss? When the only thing that really matters is the Best Protoss Under Pressure? :-) ...---...
On April 22 2016 18:41 Diabolique wrote: Why are they competing for the best Protoss? When the only thing that really matters is the Best Protoss Under Pressure? :-) ...---...
GSL semis on my cheat day! Im having 1 big slice of chocolate fudge cake, 8 mini brownies, half a cup of ben and jerrys peanut butter cup ice cream with a large cup of hot chocolate to flush it all down
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
exactly, that was my point, GSL Global never counted
On April 22 2016 18:46 CrayonPopChoa wrote: GSL semis on my cheat day! Im having 1 big slice of chocolate fudge cake, 8 mini brownies, half a cup of ben and jerrys peanut butter cup ice cream with a large cup of hot chocolate to flush it all down
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
On April 22 2016 18:40 MiniFotToss wrote: OHHHHHHH I JUST REMEMBERED Tonight decides who can potentially join MC as the second Protoss to win 2 GSL's
Zest did officially win two.
That was like counting the Super Tournament as an official one. Although I do count but its disputed
it doesn't count, if it does then sOs won a GSL and Rain also won 2 GSL's
Hot6ix Cup never counted. But GSL Super Tournaments and stuff used to count. Basically, if they gave the winner a GSL pin, it counted in the past. Zest only has a GSL pin for Code S so the Global Championship didn't count.
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (2)
7%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (1)
3%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (0)
0%
30 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
On April 22 2016 19:05 Sonicsdota wrote: I hope you guys know how complicated and complex Game 1 just was. The tech switches and decision making my both players is incredible.
Agreed. Also lol at Zest harassing with mass phoenixes but when Dear does it Zest is already two steps ahead, killing you with mass blinkstalkers
On April 22 2016 19:05 Sonicsdota wrote: I hope you guys know how complicated and complex Game 1 just was. The tech switches and decision making my both players is incredible.
No. Dear built units because Zest built units. Then they flied around and in the end Zest went YOLO and blinked upon Dear's puny army and won
On April 22 2016 19:05 Sonicsdota wrote: I hope you guys know how complicated and complex Game 1 just was. The tech switches and decision making my both players is incredible.
On April 22 2016 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Also Zest should be red and Dear blue, wtf, color selection in GSL is sometimes weird. Samsung = blue color, KT = red. Is this trolling from GSL?
On April 22 2016 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Also Zest should be red and Dear blue, wtf, color selection in GSL is sometimes weird. Samsung = blue color, KT = red. Is this trolling from GSL?
On April 22 2016 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Also Zest should be red and Dear blue, wtf, color selection in GSL is sometimes weird. Samsung = blue color, KT = red. Is this trolling from GSL?
On April 22 2016 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Also Zest should be red and Dear blue, wtf, color selection in GSL is sometimes weird. Samsung = blue color, KT = red. Is this trolling from GSL?
Only in ProLeague IIRC
I would call it user friendly colors. Many people who watch Proleague watch GSL
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (5)
16%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (3)
10%
★★★ - Good game. (1)
3%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (0)
0%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
I think even if I slowed down the game speed by 5 times I still wouldnt be able to control that battle as well as Zest did, controlling a protoss army in PvP is actually impressive now days
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
On April 22 2016 19:20 Poopi wrote: Zest will be so hyped up after the probable 4-0 so it would be funny if TY manages to win despite the odds.
I've got Zest to win the finals 4-2. TY and Zest are just SO much better than everyone else.
There's a definite TaekBangLeeSsang thing going on in SC2. Dark might be the Z, but you'd have to say zest >>> ty >>>>>>>>>> dark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
Revealing strats for PvP in PvZ on a different map pool.
Uhhh.... yeah, sure, this reasoning sounds reliable.
On April 22 2016 19:21 CrayonPopChoa wrote: I think even if I slowed down the game speed by 5 times I still wouldnt be able to control that battle as well as Zest did, controlling a protoss army in PvP is actually impressive now days
It's always been impressive, controlling your army was the biggest deciding factor in HotS PvP. It's just more 'obvious' now how much stuff is going on.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
Revealing strats for PvP in PvZ on a different map pool.
Uhhh.... yeah, sure, this reasoning sounds reliable.
On April 22 2016 19:21 CrayonPopChoa wrote: I think even if I slowed down the game speed by 5 times I still wouldnt be able to control that battle as well as Zest did, controlling a protoss army in PvP is actually impressive now days
It's always been impressive, controlling your army was the biggest deciding factor in HotS PvP. It's just more 'obvious' now how much stuff is going on.
What are you talking about? HotS PvP was a no skill amove fest. Reddit told me.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
Revealing strats for PvP in PvZ on a different map pool.
Uhhh.... yeah, sure, this reasoning sounds reliable.
Shit you're right. Snutes a better player.
Trolling or...?
I get that Zest was preparing for GSL and didn't care but your reasoning was/is plainly stupid... jeez, sometimes I really wish an ignore function was a thing on TL.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
Revealing strats for PvP in PvZ on a different map pool.
Uhhh.... yeah, sure, this reasoning sounds reliable.
On April 22 2016 19:20 Poopi wrote: Zest will be so hyped up after the probable 4-0 so it would be funny if TY manages to win despite the odds.
I've got Zest to win the finals 4-2. TY and Zest are just SO much better than everyone else.
There's a definite TaekBangLeeSsang thing going on in SC2. Dark might be the Z, but you'd have to say zest >>> ty >>>>>>>>>> dark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else.
On April 22 2016 19:20 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: lol @ tasteless being surprised at zest's skill - this isn't new, he's been incredible the last month!
He lost to Snute though
$30k tournament and blizzcon invite. Vs Revealing strats in a retarde Kung Fu Cup?
Revealing strats for PvP in PvZ on a different map pool.
Uhhh.... yeah, sure, this reasoning sounds reliable.
Shit you're right. Snutes a better player.
Trolling or...?
I get that Zest was preparing for GSL and didn't care but your reasoning was/is plainly stupid... jeez, sometimes I really wish an ignore function was a thing on TL.
Do you need people to write you a list or reasons why Zest lost to snute? Can you not think for yourself other reasons? Do you need me to write you a complete list? a-z
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
Is there a reason protosses rarely pulls probes away when chasing an adept? Like all races do vs reapers. Is the firerate/range too fast/long for it to be possible, so it dies no matter what when targetted?
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
During infestor-blord era Mvp was so strong that Zergs used him as "look, Terran isn't weak, Mvp is winning everything". Zest is the same right now, he's so good right now he shouldn't matter. He's his own race now oO
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
Do you know why? Because Protoss players have soul and Terrans don't! With a Soul train everything was better in WoL
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
Does that sigbet count or not,
Oh it still counts, I was just referring to how annoying LR gets whenever Zest is involved. It annoys me more than it should how often his physique is mentioned as his main selling point. In one sense I appreciate it as it breaks the "fat neckbeard" trope. But it's brought up so often it makes it seem like its an impossible to reach status...
This is a really weird looking game from Zest. Is it just me? He didn't micro out of storms at all and was floating tons of minerals also. Did he just go afk for like 30 seconds?
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
So are you saying protoss is broken or Zest? Either way Mvp >>>>>
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
On April 22 2016 19:48 lastride wrote: That game made no sense How did Dear lose so badly at the end? Also Zest ate like 5 full storms and still came on top lol
Zest engaged at better angles with slightly better compositions and better upgrades. Also Dear ran out of observers and some DTs rekt a bit of his shit in a big fight.
On April 22 2016 19:48 lastride wrote: That game made no sense How did Dear lose so badly at the end? Also Zest ate like 5 full storms and still came on top lol
No the storms fight he lost and he ran. That was when he was behind.
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
So are you saying protoss is broken or Zest? Either way Mvp >>>>>
What? I'm just saying protoss was and still is strong so no need to qq. I didn't brought Mvp at all in the first place. Sorry Dear but you fucked up my FPL so go Zest, destroy that kid.
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
So are you saying protoss is broken or Zest? Either way Mvp >>>>>
What? I'm just saying protoss was and still is strong so no need to qq. I didn't brought Mvp at all in the first place. Sorry Dear but you fucked up my FPL so go Zest, destroy that kid.
Not sure I necessarily agree with that, but anyway...
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
Does that sigbet count or not,
Oh it still counts, I was just referring to how annoying LR gets whenever Zest is involved. It annoys me more than it should how often his physique is mentioned as his main selling point. In one sense I appreciate it as it breaks the "fat neckbeard" trope. But it's brought up so often it makes it seem like its an impossible to reach status...
Well, I mean the number of SC2 progamers who are on Zest's level on that point can certainly be counted on one hand.
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
I'm not a fan of him at all but he sure looks strong, and he shows that protoss is indeed strong which is a good thing because they QQ'd
Zest doesn't count the same way Mvp shouldn't be used as an argument during BL-infestor era. Zest looks Protoss OP in PvP in RO4 of the hardest tournament...
What? Could you rephrase, didn't get what you were trying to say o_o
He means Zest shouldn't be used as an example of Protoss being strong just like Mvp's tournament runs shouldn't be used to say BL/infestor was fine.
Still doesn't mean anything since there is no such thing as BL/Infestor in LotV edit: plus protoss were doing hot shit in every tournament whereas terrans (Mvp included) got trashed everywhere shh.
So are you saying protoss is broken or Zest? Either way Mvp >>>>>
What? I'm just saying protoss was and still is strong so no need to qq. I didn't brought Mvp at all in the first place. Sorry Dear but you fucked up my FPL so go Zest, destroy that kid.
Not sure I necessarily agree with that, but anyway...
I would react but I don't want to take a balance discussion into the thread, so I try to ignore Poopi.
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (4)
15%
★★★★ - Great game. (1)
4%
★★★ - Good game. (0)
0%
26 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 4?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (8)
40%
★★★★ - Great game. (5)
25%
★★★ - Good game. (4)
20%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (2)
10%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (1)
5%
20 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 5?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 6?
★★★★ - Great game. (7)
41%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (4)
24%
★★★ - Good game. (3)
18%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (2)
12%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (1)
6%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 6?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
Poll: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 7?
★★★ - Good game. (7)
41%
★★ - It was kind of meh. (3)
18%
★★★★ - Great game. (3)
18%
★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (2)
12%
★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances. (2)
12%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Dear game 7?
(Vote): ★ - Don't watch this if you have a choice. (Vote): ★★ - It was kind of meh. (Vote): ★★★ - Good game. (Vote): ★★★★ - Great game. (Vote): ★★★★★ - Don't miss this game under any circumstances.
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
this is pvp we are talking about, i doubt we get an other 4-0
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
this is pvp we are talking about, i doubt we get an other 4-0
hehehe
better not show it to the zest fanclub otherwise i would be blamed to not trust zest enough
On April 22 2016 19:33 Cricketer12 wrote: Not sure if Zest or his fans are more annoying...
Does that sigbet count or not,
Oh it still counts, I was just referring to how annoying LR gets whenever Zest is involved. It annoys me more than it should how often his physique is mentioned as his main selling point. In one sense I appreciate it as it breaks the "fat neckbeard" trope. But it's brought up so often it makes it seem like its an impossible to reach status...
Well, I mean the number of SC2 progamers who are on Zest's level on that point can certainly be counted on one hand.
Which is fine, good for Zest, but its repeated a bit too excessively.
On April 22 2016 19:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On April 22 2016 18:25 Makro wrote:
On April 22 2016 18:12 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Another 4-0 incoming lol
This whole tournament is just the Zest and TY show. They are the final fight of this Rocky movie and the others were just opponents beat in a training montage.
this is pvp we are talking about, i doubt we get an other 4-0
hehehe
better not show it to the zest fanclub otherwise i would be blamed to not trust zest enough
On April 22 2016 19:56 MiniFotToss wrote: lol first team kill in history??????
Flash vs TY IEM Toronto
??? Flash beat Zest at toronto. Classic veat soO in GSL Mvp beat Nestea at Blizzcon Nestea beat Losira in GSL etc
Didn't they say 1st GSL team kill KT finals? But not sure, didn't pay attention.
If thats what they said, then yes it should be. Had my stream muted so I took his post out of context and just thought he meant team kill finals in general...
On April 22 2016 19:57 Silvana wrote: Zest has improved in the interview department too.
Oh wait can I compliment Zest now or will this get people here annoyed?
Seriously? You want ti get salty because not 100% of TL doesn't want to suck Zest's dick?
I get pissed when people are celebrating one of the most awesome progamers we have and others -for god knows what reason- think it's ok come and tell them the way they celebrate is wrong. Like if you weren't annoying or saying ridiculous statements about your fav players.
But sure you'll phrase it as "stop sucking Zest dick" like if it was a bad thing.
On April 22 2016 19:59 Elentos wrote: The playoffs have been so one-sided so far. So I pray TY vs Zest will be the greatest GSL finals of all time to compensate.
In my experience the less hyped the better (jjakji v leenock, Dear v Maru, Dream v Life)
On April 22 2016 19:59 Elentos wrote: The playoffs have been so one-sided so far. So I pray TY vs Zest will be the greatest GSL finals of all time to compensate.
In my experience the less hyped the better (jjakji v leenock, Dear v Maru, Dream v Life)
And of course only one of that was a finals. So I guess the finals are gonna suck again.
I am happy as a KT fan but i hope TY can take games off Zest. He looked unbeatable in pvt and pvp. Maybe TY should start practicing zerg to beat him? Could be easier lol
On April 22 2016 20:06 Isualin wrote: I am happy as a KT fan but i hope TY can take games off Zest. He looked unbeatable in pvt and pvp. Maybe TY should start practicing zerg to beat him? Could be easier lol
Both of them will know everything the other does so I expect weird things and no shutouts.
On April 22 2016 19:57 Silvana wrote: Zest has improved in the interview department too.
Oh wait can I compliment Zest now or will this get people here annoyed?
Seriously? You want ti get salty because not 100% of TL doesn't want to suck Zest's dick?
I get pissed when people are celebrating one of the most awesome progamers we have and others -for god knows what reason- think it's ok come and tell them the way they celebrate is wrong. Like if you weren't annoying or saying ridiculous statements about your fav players.
But sure you'll phrase it as "stop sucking Zest dick" like if it was a bad thing.
Don't worry. Cricketer is probably just sad that it isn't a San vs DRG finals.
On April 22 2016 19:57 Silvana wrote: Zest has improved in the interview department too.
Oh wait can I compliment Zest now or will this get people here annoyed?
Seriously? You want ti get salty because not 100% of TL doesn't want to suck Zest's dick?
I get pissed when people are celebrating one of the most awesome progamers we have and others -for god knows what reason- think it's ok come and tell them the way they celebrate is wrong. Like if you weren't annoying or saying ridiculous statements about your fav players.
But sure you'll phrase it as "stop sucking Zest dick" like if it was a bad thing.
Don't worry. Cricketer is probably just sad that it isn't a San vs DRG finals.
All games since Ro8 has been one-sided and not that fun. Some individual games has been good, but there was not a lot of excitement over the competition and who's going to win.
On April 22 2016 17:40 Noonius wrote: very fast and boring 4-0 inc
who doubted me?
I never doubted PvP is going to be boring. That being said, I enjoyed Game 1 alone more then I enjoyed the last couple of years of Protoss dominance in GSL
On April 22 2016 20:46 rotta wrote: Zest is 18-1 in this tournament 8)
TY is 18-4. Still pretty solid.
Wow, you're fast. Damn Journey for ruining the sweep.
Zest winning 22-0 in GSL while facing the likes of Maru, Dear and TY would have been ludicrous. Alas, he dropped a map to Journey. Journey confirmed based god.
On April 22 2016 21:03 Charoisaur wrote: For all the discussion about LotV being to volatile, Zest vs TY was really the expected finals from the beginning.
Game so volatile, Zest and TY lost in total 4 maps this season!! (5 if you count code a)
On April 22 2016 21:03 Charoisaur wrote: For all the discussion about LotV being to volatile, Zest vs TY was really the expected finals from the beginning.
Mostly because GSL didn't use the worst blizzard maps imo
On April 22 2016 21:03 Charoisaur wrote: For all the discussion about LotV being to volatile, Zest vs TY was really the expected finals from the beginning.
true
I don't think this will be the Zest 4-0 a lot of people seem to be expecting, TY will prepare hard and teamkills can give strange results.
On the scale of 1 to watching people play a MOBA, how boring it was today? Looking at the score, I am almost not sorry for having to work during GSL semis.
On April 22 2016 21:03 Charoisaur wrote: For all the discussion about LotV being to volatile, Zest vs TY was really the expected finals from the beginning.
Mostly because GSL didn't use the worst blizzard maps imo
The real story here is that the game is pretty imabalnced against Zerg unless there are maps allowing for a healthy dose of bullshit. Zerg is the Protorss of 2016.
On April 22 2016 21:59 Shellshock wrote: Zest is just so good. so lame that Maru got this guy in Code A
Yep, especially because Maru might be the best Terran atm or at least close. That shows that the Code A system is quite bad atm :/ Afreeca should change it
God what a badass. One day, a Jin Air player will grow his Green Wings, and challenge these guys on the individual stage. Until then, I guess it's KT all day, erry day.
On April 22 2016 22:12 TheDougler wrote: So Zest has only dropped one game this GSL season.
Is this the most dominant GSL run since Neatea's perfect tournament?
Stuchiu probably would know this without checking, lol I would guess that's the case though and in a way more competitive era that is!
If dominant means win rate then yes it is
Well not just that, but it doesn't feel like he could lose for the most part. His games are amazing to watch, i bet pretty much any protoss would have lost the first game today after going for that proxy. Zest still won. I am a little bit sorry for "being an annoying Zest fanboy" but sorry not sorry
On April 22 2016 23:03 IntoTheheart wrote:
Silvana's banners are always really good.
Totally agreed! Now i have high expectations for the finals banner :D
On April 22 2016 22:12 TheDougler wrote: So Zest has only dropped one game this GSL season.
Is this the most dominant GSL run since Neatea's perfect tournament?
Stuchiu probably would know this without checking, lol I would guess that's the case though and in a way more competitive era that is!
If dominant means win rate then yes it is
Well not just that, but it doesn't feel like he could lose for the most part. His games are amazing to watch, i bet pretty much any protoss would have lost the first game today after going for that proxy. Zest still won. I am a little bit sorry for "being an annoying Zest fanboy" but sorry not sorry
Relative to their eras I'd put this above Nestea's run, below Mvp's August run and Inno's 2013 GSL S1 run (Yes i know he got 2nd, he also beat players #7-#3 on the way to the finals hard).
If you want to include online there is also Taeja's IPL TAC 3.
If you want to include over an extended period of time for over a 4 month period of time this isn't anything compared to Life (both 2012 and 2014/2015), Inno 2013, Zest 2014, Mvp 2011, Nestea 2011, Taeja 2013 or 2014. There are plenty of other players I can include in this category as well, those are just the first ones to pop up in my head.
It's just not possible with the current system to have as strong a run unless you win both Starleagues.
It's mostly depressing to me since I think Zest could be as skilled as Mvp 2011, Inno 2013, Life 2014/2015, but he can't match the results because of the system in place.
On April 22 2016 23:55 Poopi wrote: Mvp's run in January (3-0 Trickster, 3-1 Nestea and 4-0 MKP) was huge as well
You guys are for real? At the time the tournaments weren't nearly as competitive. Why is noone factoring that in? That's actually extremely important. I don't mean the skill level btw, that would be extremely trivial, i am talking about professionalism and how hard it is to get to the top.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Yeah Maru already in Code A was easy as well, Dear in PvP apparently not noteworthy. Cure is a scrub as well. Sry but your opinion is ridiculous.
On April 23 2016 00:01 stuchiu wrote: It's mostly depressing to me since I think Zest could be as skilled as Mvp 2011, Inno 2013, Life 2014/2015, but he can't match the results because of the system in place.
You always ignore proleague (while valuing Taeja's IPL TAC 3). Lvl of competetiveness isn't really valued either. But yeah sure Zest cannot go and win some weekend tournaments with lesser competition. He could win the cross finals though. He could do well in the next SSL/GSL and in proleague.
"Innovation" is a concept made by fanboys, nothing else. (or to word it nicely: it isn't tangible by any means) Noone knows who really innovated, we simply see a player using it effectively in live games. For all we know Catz invented all the buildorders in sc2 and gave them to koreans over skype.
Find one round run by one person who has man for man beating as many good players (relative to their era) as Teaja did in his one run with as many shit teammates. Here's a helping hand. Taeja's team was 9th strongest in that league. Find me one more player who could carry 9th strongest team to the final and get a 7 kill against the best team.
On April 22 2016 23:55 Poopi wrote: Mvp's run in January (3-0 Trickster, 3-1 Nestea and 4-0 MKP) was huge as well
You guys are for real? At the time the tournaments weren't nearly as competitive. Why is noone factoring that in? That's actually extremely important. I don't mean the skill level btw, that would be extremely trivial, i am talking about professionalism and how hard it is to get to the top.
On April 23 2016 00:01 stuchiu wrote: It's mostly depressing to me since I think Zest could be as skilled as Mvp 2011, Inno 2013, Life 2014/2015, but he can't match the results because of the system in place.
You always ignore proleague (while valuing Taeja's IPL TAC 3). Lvl of competetiveness isn't really valued either. But yeah sure Zest cannot go and win some weekend tournaments with lesser competition. He could win the cross finals though. He could do well in the next SSL/GSL and in proleague.
I find competition fiercer back in the days than nowadays lol. Almost nobody is playing the game anymore in Korea. Maybe when every BW team switched to I think HotS? it was the hardest level of competition but LotV is not.
I never said Taeja only beats shit players, weekend tournaments still aren't nearly on the same competitive level as starleagues. In a starleague there are the best players in the world, every single season. The lvl of the player field is simply way, way higher than that of any Dreamhack or IEM. That's a factor as well, not only the road a player had to go in any given tournament. Your way of saying "he beat top 10 Z here and top 5 T there" misses that in GSL when an upset happens and a "worse player" beats "a better one" that usually means that the "worse player" simply prepared extremely well and played out of his mind. Starleagues are that competitive these days, almost anyone playing there actually has a chance of winning it. (there are still favorites ofc)
You also don't answer my statement. Why do you ignore proleague for the most part but value Taeja's TAC3 run? It makes little sense to me. It may very well be that i undervalue it a bit, it still was in a less competitive time and a good part was online iirc.
On April 22 2016 23:55 Poopi wrote: Mvp's run in January (3-0 Trickster, 3-1 Nestea and 4-0 MKP) was huge as well
You guys are for real? At the time the tournaments weren't nearly as competitive. Why is noone factoring that in? That's actually extremely important. I don't mean the skill level btw, that would be extremely trivial, i am talking about professionalism and how hard it is to get to the top.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Yeah Maru already in Code A was easy as well, Dear in PvP apparently not noteworthy. Cure is a scrub as well. Sry but your opinion is ridiculous.
On April 23 2016 00:01 stuchiu wrote: It's mostly depressing to me since I think Zest could be as skilled as Mvp 2011, Inno 2013, Life 2014/2015, but he can't match the results because of the system in place.
You always ignore proleague (while valuing Taeja's IPL TAC 3). Lvl of competetiveness isn't really valued either. But yeah sure Zest cannot go and win some weekend tournaments with lesser competition. He could win the cross finals though. He could do well in the next SSL/GSL and in proleague.
I find competition fiercer back in the days than nowadays lol. Almost nobody is playing the game anymore in Korea. Maybe when every BW team switched to I think HotS? it was the hardest level of competition but LotV is not.
Sure after Kespa switched and players had enough time to actually play the game it probably was more competitve. But i would argue that the difference to that isn't nearly as big as the difference from now to Wol.
I don't know what anyone means by undervalue PL. I value it for what it is a team league.
The only time I ever talk about Taeja's IPL TAC run is when the topic of best run ever done is brought up.
Same players play in weekenders as they play in GSL. Not all of them, but a lot of them did in the past.
But if you want to somehow say a 6-2 round in PL and a cross finals is somehow better than Blizcon, SSL Top 4, DH WInter 2nd, IEM 1st and Life's 5-4 in PL go ahead.
On April 23 2016 00:37 stuchiu wrote: I don't know what anyone means by undervalue PL. I value it for what it is a team league.
The only time I ever talk about Taeja's IPL TAC run is when the topic of best run ever done is brought up.
Same players play in weekenders as they play in GSL. Not all of them, but a lot of them did in the past.
But if you want to somehow say a 6-2 round in PL and a cross finals is somehow better than Blizcon, SSL Top 4, DH WInter 2nd, IEM 1st and Life's 5-4 in PL go ahead.
PL is the most competitive team league. Doing well there is something only the best of the best achieve. Taeja didn't btw (i had to, sry)
Not nearly all of them, which is exactly the point i tried to make. Yes there are a handfull of Starleague players at some of those weekend tournaments. That's not the same though. It isn't as easy as saying "hey Innovation, Zest and soO are there, this Dreamhack is basically a GSL". No it's not, not even close. Innovation, Zest and soO probably lose to some other guy in GSL because it simply was/is that competitive there. Taeja would be one of many in the Starleagues, that's exactly the reason we don't have these big multiple winners, because it's freaking hard to do. Taeja winning all these premiers is a symptom of them being way, way easier, not him being way, way better. (again i don't wanna say it isn't impressive at all, it isn't as impressive as people always say though) Same for Mvp btw, back then the competition was basically a joke compared to now. It's not comparable at all, which is why he never ever can be the GOAT in my book. (still very high on the list because you obviously cannot devalue these Starleagues to the point where he wouldn't be topX at least)
But if you want to somehow say a 6-2 round in PL and a cross finals is somehow better than Blizcon, SSL Top 4, DH WInter 2nd, IEM 1st and Life's 5-4 in PL go ahead.
No i don't wanna say that. But as i stated before Zest's run didn't end yet, as of right now he clearly isn't at the same lvl. He obviously has less to play in in the same time span. But that would arguably make his run even better if it was over a timespan even longer (with the same amount of success)
On April 22 2016 22:12 TheDougler wrote: So Zest has only dropped one game this GSL season.
Is this the most dominant GSL run since Neatea's perfect tournament?
Stuchiu probably would know this without checking, lol I would guess that's the case though and in a way more competitive era that is!
If dominant means win rate then yes it is
Well not just that, but it doesn't feel like he could lose for the most part. His games are amazing to watch, i bet pretty much any protoss would have lost the first game today after going for that proxy. Zest still won. I am a little bit sorry for "being an annoying Zest fanboy" but sorry not sorry
On April 22 2016 23:03 IntoTheheart wrote:
Silvana's banners are always really good.
Totally agreed! Now i have high expectations for the finals banner :D
Although I wouldn't be stunned if they went with this.
I mean not every Code S player would automatically be high lvl in this other format. I am fairly confident in saying that if all of them would play every single weekend tournament that a lot of them would be high lvl there as well though. Why Innovation specifically didn't do as well? No idea, maybe he cannot deal with travelling, maybe he is overly reliant on preparation, there could be a lot of reasons. That's only one example though.
Why don't you agree with that though? I think it is quite straight forward that the Kespa switch increased the level of professionalism by quite a lot. The simple addition of proleague already makes a huge difference because all the top player have to train all the time because there is always something important to play. But the higher lvl of professionalism (coaches, stricter practice, arguably overall better player pool to begin with, etc) alone is imo not really attackable as a statement. Apparently you disgaree though.
edit: I am kinda sorry this is a huge discussion again, but forums are there to discuss things and the livereport thread is the next best place to discuss this after the matches are over anyway.
On April 22 2016 22:12 TheDougler wrote: So Zest has only dropped one game this GSL season.
Is this the most dominant GSL run since Neatea's perfect tournament?
Stuchiu probably would know this without checking, lol I would guess that's the case though and in a way more competitive era that is!
If dominant means win rate then yes it is
For sure. Just talking about win rate here. That's really quite a feat. I feel like Nestea's perfect run will one day be thought of as an unmatchable record (until someone does it again one day to prove that belief incorrect).
On April 23 2016 16:30 Loccstana wrote: These games show that the phoenix needs a nerf. Make it so that when the pheonix takes damage, graviton beam is canceled.
Or that shots /spells with a duration aren't canceled. It's really silly how easily they counter purifiers right now.
no phoenix are fine without them there ist no way not every game ends in disruptor wars. and 1 nova still hit zests army a bit more and everything would be shreddered
On April 23 2016 01:03 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean not every Code S player would automatically be high lvl in this other format. I am fairly confident in saying that if all of them would play every single weekend tournament that a lot of them would be high lvl there as well though. Why Innovation specifically didn't do as well? No idea, maybe he cannot deal with travelling, maybe he is overly reliant on preparation, there could be a lot of reasons. That's only one example though.
Why don't you agree with that though? I think it is quite straight forward that the Kespa switch increased the level of professionalism by quite a lot. The simple addition of proleague already makes a huge difference because all the top player have to train all the time because there is always something important to play. But the higher lvl of professionalism (coaches, stricter practice, arguably overall better player pool to begin with, etc) alone is imo not really attackable as a statement. Apparently you disgaree though.
edit: I am kinda sorry this is a huge discussion again, but forums are there to discuss things and the livereport thread is the next best place to discuss this after the matches are over anyway.
I believe it´s hard to come to a conclusion here, because there are good arguments for both sides, which cannot be disproved. So it comes down to a matter of how you set your priorities.
Skill peak vs comparative skill:
I agree with you that we have the highest skill level of SC2 right now. But whether Zest is the "better" player than Mvp depends on what constitutes better. I would say that Zest at his peak would beat Mvp at his peak. But Mvp, for me, is the greater player, precisely because he rose in a weaker state of the game. While a higher competitive level makes it harder to win, it also makes it easier to improve and become as godly as possible. Because you have many great minds working together to shave off any bit of inefficiency left, the dominant player is, in a way, carried by the competition. In a way, the overall skill-level seems to work as a kind of overall skill-ceiling. When the game is not figured out, yet, and there´s plenty of bitbybit-clowns left, you have to climb on your own and define the meta yourself. Sure, later on, mechanically more gifted players may defeat you, because they profited from your ground work, but in my book, that doesn´t make them "better".
Format is somewhat similar to me, because it seems to make quite a difference for players. You can rate preparation higher, as it leads to more "perfect" games. Then Starleagues and PL are where the best players are defined. Or you can rate weakenders higher, because a player cannot rely on perfect reproduction of training, but needs endurance, versatility, and the mind-set to be tested again and again. I agree though, that not all the greatest players took part in a significant amount of weekend tournaments, while practically all great player took part in SLs/PL. Still, personally, I value week-end tournaments higher, because the players have to rely more on themselves and less on the team/coach. That´s why Taeja is a big-ass GOAT to me, even without success in Korea.
In the end, it´s a matter of how you set your priorities.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
There's not much ground to question Dear. The only Protoss consistently outperforming him so far has been Zest. Considering his performance in 2016 so far, there's not really anyone else you can put ahead of him in good conscience.
I definitely don't see TaeJa as a top 5 Terran atm though.
Taeja played very well this season. There's TY and Maru who are better than all other terrans, then there's Cure, Dream and the 5th spot is between Innovation and Taeja. Innovation I'm straight up not impressed with, while Taeja played well. So I'd put him in my top 5 terrans. Not that it really matters, because Zest would have to beat the top 2 (maybe 3, if you count Cure) terrans to win this season anyway, as well as beating the second best protoss (there's no grounds to give it to anyone but Dear, herO isn't good enough) and a top 3 zerg in soO. No matter how you look at it, this isn't an easy run by any means.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
There's not much ground to question Dear. The only Protoss consistently outperforming him so far has been Zest. Considering his performance in 2016 so far, there's not really anyone else you can put ahead of him in good conscience.
I definitely don't see TaeJa as a top 5 Terran atm though.
It's the problem of the small sample size really in Legacy - there has been just one season of SSL and GSL yet and then a lot of small tournaments with questionable importance and PL. When it comes to just that, I have to concede that the "Dear second best protoss" theory seems justified (I was honestly not aware how good was his record in PL round 1), but in a broader picture, you need to consider at least Stats, Classic, $o$ and CJ herO.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
There's not much ground to question Dear. The only Protoss consistently outperforming him so far has been Zest. Considering his performance in 2016 so far, there's not really anyone else you can put ahead of him in good conscience.
I definitely don't see TaeJa as a top 5 Terran atm though.
It's the problem of the small sample size really in Legacy - there has been just one season of SSL and GSL yet and then a lot of small tournaments with questionable importance and PL. When it comes to just that, I have to concede that the "Dear second best protoss" theory seems justified (I was honestly not aware how good was his record in PL round 1), but in a broader picture, you need to consider at least Stats, Classic, $o$ and CJ herO.
Classic was looking quite weak for a bit, he got eliminated from GSL and SSL in the same week (by Patience and SpeeD) and then took a long break (over 1 month with no offline matches). Not a contender.
sOs has a weak Proleague record, got eliminated from GSL by Dear and didn't qualify from SSL. Even if you consider his IEM win, he hasn't done much to justify being top 2 Protoss.
herO and Stats I agree would deserve a look, but herO is very up and down in his performances so far.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
There's not much ground to question Dear. The only Protoss consistently outperforming him so far has been Zest. Considering his performance in 2016 so far, there's not really anyone else you can put ahead of him in good conscience.
I definitely don't see TaeJa as a top 5 Terran atm though.
It's the problem of the small sample size really in Legacy - there has been just one season of SSL and GSL yet and then a lot of small tournaments with questionable importance and PL. When it comes to just that, I have to concede that the "Dear second best protoss" theory seems justified (I was honestly not aware how good was his record in PL round 1), but in a broader picture, you need to consider at least Stats, Classic, $o$ and CJ herO.
Classic was looking quite weak for a bit, he got eliminated from GSL and SSL in the same week (by Patience and SpeeD) and then took a long break (over 1 month with no offline matches). Not a contender.
sOs has a weak Proleague record, got eliminated from GSL by Dear and didn't qualify from SSL. Even if you consider his IEM win, he hasn't done much to justify being top 2 Protoss.
herO and Stats I agree would deserve a look, but herO is very up and down in his performances so far.
If history is anything to go by, Dear's performance might as well be a positive fluctuation. We will see - sadly, there aren't that many places to see nowadays Anyway, I didn't want to devaluate Zest's run, just to note that it's not very clear how to rank players in Korea.
Eh you realize Dear is second best protoss and Ty second best terran right?
Lets just agree the best 2 players in GSL are in the finals.
Ty isn't top 2. Maru, Dark, Dear, Stats and Zest are better than him. He is good TvT but pretty bad in the other matchups.
It's factored in with the innovation of the game, which directly balances that out.
It's not like this era is he most competitive era of SC2 ever. A lot of great/good players have fallen off or retired.
Again, it depends on how you measure it. I believe run should be measured in relation to how dominant you look relative to your opposition. You don't measure that only by looking at tournament wins but rather through a more qualitative approach. Do they look like they far outclass their opponents and in all matchups?
There was never any period where Taeja looked by above the rest of his competitors. In many of his tournament wins he primary beat foreigners and in the series vs other strong koreans he didn't looked like he heavily outclassed them. But surely he was a clutch player. MVP was always too unstable and suffered for a long time in his TvP.
I think Zest's run here is comparable to that of Innovation early HOTS. Remember when Innovation lost the final 4-3 to the second best player in the world? AND IT WAS A HUGE UPSET. That's when you know you have a player who is extremely dominant as people are shocked that he losses to # 2. If Taeja had lost to Life in the final, noone would have blinked.
And the case is the same for Zest going into this final. Though Ty isn't # 2, you could put him against everybody and it would be extremely surprising if he lost.
Every game he plays he looks like he is level above that of his opponents. If he wins the final (in dominant fashion), I will count this as a the most dominant period out of any player in the history of Sc2. Becasue right now he looks heavily favored going into any matchup against any player.
On April 22 2016 23:59 sharkie wrote: Zest's run has been quite easy so far. Taeja Ro8, Dear PvP Ro4 and now a teammate in finals.
Only his win vs soO is noteworthy
Just saw this comment and had to reply because it's massively ridiculous.
3-0 Maru (top 2 terran) 5-0 Taeja (top 5 terran probably) 2-1 Journey (who actually played well) 2-0 soO (top 3 zerg) 2-0 Cure (top 3 terran, GSL semifinalist) 4-0 Dear (who's the 2nd best protoss in the world) Now plays TY (top 2 terran)
You're absolutely deluded if you think this is an easy run. It's hard and it's been one of the most dominant as well.
I think you are both exagerating. Isn't Taeja kinda retired? What has he done recently? Why is Dear 2nd best protoss in the world? Honestly, the only reason to call him that is reaching the semis, but that's a lot of a a self-fulfilling prophecy. I definitely agree that Zests run has been impressive as far as GSL runs usually go, but the playing field is still quite unstable - with Zest being actually one of the very few consistently great players.
There's not much ground to question Dear. The only Protoss consistently outperforming him so far has been Zest. Considering his performance in 2016 so far, there's not really anyone else you can put ahead of him in good conscience.
I definitely don't see TaeJa as a top 5 Terran atm though.
It's the problem of the small sample size really in Legacy - there has been just one season of SSL and GSL yet and then a lot of small tournaments with questionable importance and PL. When it comes to just that, I have to concede that the "Dear second best protoss" theory seems justified (I was honestly not aware how good was his record in PL round 1), but in a broader picture, you need to consider at least Stats, Classic, $o$ and CJ herO.
Classic was looking quite weak for a bit, he got eliminated from GSL and SSL in the same week (by Patience and SpeeD) and then took a long break (over 1 month with no offline matches). Not a contender.
sOs has a weak Proleague record, got eliminated from GSL by Dear and didn't qualify from SSL. Even if you consider his IEM win, he hasn't done much to justify being top 2 Protoss.
herO and Stats I agree would deserve a look, but herO is very up and down in his performances so far.
If history is anything to go by, Dear's performance might as well be a positive fluctuation. We will see - sadly, there aren't that many places to see nowadays Anyway, I didn't want to devaluate Zest's run, just to note that it's not very clear how to rank players in Korea.
True enough. Although I think Maru/TY as top Terrans, Zest/Dear as top Protoss and Dark/soO as top Zerg are pretty valid opinions. And keep in mind Zest not only beat those players Olli evaluated so highly, he did it dropping a single map so far. This is no easy run by any means. For most players it would have ended in Code A.
By.Baby or TY was projected to be the next nada in bw but never came into fruition. Really cool to see him finally meet some the of the expectation and hype back in bw. Though I doubt he can beat zest in a best of 7 but team kills usually involve alot of mindgame instead of straight up play and skill.
On April 23 2016 01:03 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean not every Code S player would automatically be high lvl in this other format. I am fairly confident in saying that if all of them would play every single weekend tournament that a lot of them would be high lvl there as well though. Why Innovation specifically didn't do as well? No idea, maybe he cannot deal with travelling, maybe he is overly reliant on preparation, there could be a lot of reasons. That's only one example though.
Why don't you agree with that though? I think it is quite straight forward that the Kespa switch increased the level of professionalism by quite a lot. The simple addition of proleague already makes a huge difference because all the top player have to train all the time because there is always something important to play. But the higher lvl of professionalism (coaches, stricter practice, arguably overall better player pool to begin with, etc) alone is imo not really attackable as a statement. Apparently you disgaree though.
edit: I am kinda sorry this is a huge discussion again, but forums are there to discuss things and the livereport thread is the next best place to discuss this after the matches are over anyway.
I believe it´s hard to come to a conclusion here, because there are good arguments for both sides, which cannot be disproved. So it comes down to a matter of how you set your priorities.
Skill peak vs comparative skill:
I agree with you that we have the highest skill level of SC2 right now. But whether Zest is the "better" player than Mvp depends on what constitutes better. I would say that Zest at his peak would beat Mvp at his peak. But Mvp, for me, is the greater player, precisely because he rose in a weaker state of the game. While a higher competitive level makes it harder to win, it also makes it easier to improve and become as godly as possible. Because you have many great minds working together to shave off any bit of inefficiency left, the dominant player is, in a way, carried by the competition. In a way, the overall skill-level seems to work as a kind of overall skill-ceiling. When the game is not figured out, yet, and there´s plenty of bitbybit-clowns left, you have to climb on your own and define the meta yourself. Sure, later on, mechanically more gifted players may defeat you, because they profited from your ground work, but in my book, that doesn´t make them "better".
Format is somewhat similar to me, because it seems to make quite a difference for players. You can rate preparation higher, as it leads to more "perfect" games. Then Starleagues and PL are where the best players are defined. Or you can rate weakenders higher, because a player cannot rely on perfect reproduction of training, but needs endurance, versatility, and the mind-set to be tested again and again. I agree though, that not all the greatest players took part in a significant amount of weekend tournaments, while practically all great player took part in SLs/PL. Still, personally, I value week-end tournaments higher, because the players have to rely more on themselves and less on the team/coach. That´s why Taeja is a big-ass GOAT to me, even without success in Korea.
In the end, it´s a matter of how you set your priorities.
It's not about the skill level, that point is trivial. Obviously players now are more skilled than players back then. It's about the level of competition, how hard it is to be one of the best players. How much effort you have to put into the game to get there. The Kespa switch simply made the whole scene way more competitive for a lot of reasons.
I will use an example: Let's say at the start of sc2 only foreigners would have played the game (koreans still bw) and Idra would have won 90% of the tournaments. That would be impressive, sure but the level of competition would have been rather weak regardless (no teamhouses, no coaches, etc) Nobody would ever argue that Idra would be the GOAT in this case.
Basically the same happened though, not to the same extent (which is why i exaggerated the example) but you get the point. Mvp was great, he was the best in his era by far. Why? Because it also was easier comparatively imo.
Talking about "innovation" again: I think this factor is simply not tangible. Who really knows which progamer/coach/random guy on the street developed a new strategy? Nobody. We simply see one or more players using it effectively in live matches. That's it. In reality new meta developments are probably achieved because a lot of progamers do their stuff on ladder/in teamhouses, they perfect the concept and voilà: a new meta develops because of it. Pointing towards one player and saying he innovated the game is ridiculous imo, he may have used it the most efficient in live games and that's where the viewers see it the first time, but that doesn't mean he innovated anything. Which is why i think this "factor" is in fact a non factor when valuing players.
On April 24 2016 02:53 Hider wrote: He is good TvT but pretty bad in the other matchups.
I agree his TvZ is comparatively weak, but in TvP he's still easily among the best Koreans.
In TvP? No. First of he has bad early game (like alot of other terrans in the matchup). Further, his late game is gimmicky and relies on the opponent being impatient. He won't seek out any advantages when he has them and will just make constant counterattacks while turtling with Ravens.
When he meets someone that defends against his counterattacks with High Templars and cannons he will lose as he cannot win a straight up fight against Tempests + HT. (Ravens can only delay). And I am pretty sure Zest is gonna crush him easily.
On April 24 2016 02:53 Hider wrote: He is good TvT but pretty bad in the other matchups.
I agree his TvZ is comparatively weak, but in TvP he's still easily among the best Koreans.
In TvP? No. First of he has bad early game (like alot of other terrans in the matchup). Further, his late game is gimmicky and relies on the opponent being impatient. He won't seek out any advantages when he has them and will just make constant counterattacks while turtling with Ravens.
When he meets someone that defends against his counterattacks with High Templars and cannons he will lose as he cannot win a straight up fight against Tempests + HT. (Ravens can only delay). And I am pretty sure Zest is gonna crush him easily.
It's quite a stretch to say his TvP is bad when he has a 69% winrate since beginning of the year.
When he meets someone that defends against his counterattacks with High Templars and cannons he will lose as he cannot win a straight up fight against Tempests + HT
That is like saying Maru's Hots TvP was bad because it relied on his mechanics and not strategy. It doesn't matter if at the end of the day you win.
On April 24 2016 04:25 Ctesias wrote: Having two KT players showing such dominance in the GSL handidly makes up for the mediocre performance in SPL.
Going to be great having a KT champion again. Hopefully it's TY!
I actually wonder what the impact is when you have four players (Losira, Stats, Zest, and TY) go quite far in the GSL/SSL. Cause what they might be focusing on is series preparation as opposed to Proleague preparation, or at least, they aren't able to focus on it 100% like Innovation is.
Hello, I am old school player from Serbia (BroodWar username: vanilica) I am visiting Seoul between 30. april, and 8.may On what shows do you guys recommend me to go? And do you know where will they be held?
My friend sugested me to go to Code-S finals on 1st of may, but I can not find the location where it will be held. Thanks in advance, Srdjan
It's quite a stretch to say his TvP is bad when he has a 69% winrate since beginning of the year.
As I wrote he has been winning TvP in mid/late game because his opponent gets too impatient. But watch the games against Dear and see how his late game style was exposed.
There is no way Zest is gonna overcommit and not leave defenses at home for a counterattack. And if you study his VODS, that is literrally the win condition of TY in every single late game TvP. He will never take his whole army and try to outmicro the opponent in an actual engagement - Even if he has a lead.
That is like saying Maru's Hots TvP was bad because it relied on his mechanics and not strategy.
Well Maru's style was never gonna work in the long haul (the concept of skipping ghosts and only on rare occations building vikings) but it was fun to watch while it lasted. But this is a different scenario. The counter to Maru wasn't just "strategy" but mechanics. The reason for that was that protoss had to defend with very few units at multiple bases.
Against Ty, it's literrally just a strategic adjustment you need to make. Players didn't adjust properly in early LOTV against him, but now that there is a lot more footage on his macro playstyle out there,and we should expect protoss players (like Dear did) to adjust and beat him.
If you cannot beat Dear and Trap + he also just won 3-2 against Showtime (having watched the games yet though) --> How are you gonna take more than 1 game against Zest?
It's quite a stretch to say his TvP is bad when he has a 69% winrate since beginning of the year.
As I wrote he has been winning TvP in mid/late game because his opponent gets too impatient. But watch the games against Dear and see how his late game style was exposed.
There is no way Zest is gonna overcommit and not leave defenses at home for a counterattack. And if you study his VODS, that is literrally the win condition of TY in every single late game TvP. He will never take his whole army and try to outmicro the opponent in an actual engagement - Even if he has a lead.
That is like saying Maru's Hots TvP was bad because it relied on his mechanics and not strategy.
Well Maru's style was never gonna work in the long haul (the concept of skipping ghosts and only on rare occations building vikings) but it was fun to watch while it lasted. But this is a different scenario. The counter to Maru wasn't just "strategy" but mechanics.
Against Ty, it's literrally just a strategic adjustment you need to make. Players didn't adjust properly in early LOTV against him, but now that there is a lot more footage on his macro playstyle out there,and we should expect protoss players (like Dear did) to adjust and beat him.
If you cannot beat Dear and Trap + he also just won 3-2 against Showtime (having watched the games yet though) --> How are you gonna take more than 1 game against Zest?
I think Zest is gonna smash TY but i wouldnt count those games against showtime as anything important. He only lost on two silly cheeses he tried.
It's quite a stretch to say his TvP is bad when he has a 69% winrate since beginning of the year.
As I wrote he has been winning TvP in mid/late game because his opponent gets too impatient. But watch the games against Dear and see how his late game style was exposed.
There is no way Zest is gonna overcommit and not leave defenses at home for a counterattack. And if you study his VODS, that is literrally the win condition of TY in every single late game TvP. He will never take his whole army and try to outmicro the opponent in an actual engagement - Even if he has a lead.
That is like saying Maru's Hots TvP was bad because it relied on his mechanics and not strategy.
Well Maru's style was never gonna work in the long haul (the concept of skipping ghosts and only on rare occations building vikings) but it was fun to watch while it lasted. But this is a different scenario. The counter to Maru wasn't just "strategy" but mechanics.
Against Ty, it's literrally just a strategic adjustment you need to make. Players didn't adjust properly in early LOTV against him, but now that there is a lot more footage on his macro playstyle out there,and we should expect protoss players (like Dear did) to adjust and beat him.
If you cannot beat Dear and Trap + he also just won 3-2 against Showtime (having watched the games yet though) --> How are you gonna take more than 1 game against Zest?
I think Zest is gonna smash TY but i wouldnt count those games against showtime as anything important. He only lost on two silly cheeses he tried.
Well not surprising. Ty's early game is just bad in both TvZ and TvP. Since protoss early game agression is basically risk-free we should expect a few early game aggression builds from Zest. And I just don't see any imaginable way in which Ty can win.
Like even if he gets ahead in the midgame, he is not gonna take advantage of the lead and kill Zest. He is just gonna turtle while droppping around and Zest just isn't gonna lose to that. So as long as Zest can beat Ty late game w/ Tempest + HT, Zest should 4-0 him.
I think one of the biggest factors in Zest vs TY will be Zest's experience on the big stage. The final is going to be in a big auditorium in front of a huge crowd and I wonder how TY will react with it being his first final. We all know Zest won't be fazed but I wonder if it will effect TY's play at all.
On April 24 2016 20:43 Lil_nooblet wrote: I think one of the biggest factors in Zest vs TY will be Zest's experience on the big stage. The final is going to be in a big auditorium in front of a huge crowd and I wonder how TY will react with it being his first final. We all know Zest won't be fazed but I wonder if it will effect TY's play at all.
As Zest himself put it, he's a veteran player, he has been in the finals (and win them) several times, whereas this is TY's first time. The experience aspect leans towards Zest, so does the match up. However, this being a teamkill finals will bring a lot of weird stuff and might cancel out Zest's advantages
G1 against Showtime just demonstrates the problem with Ty's playstyle. Up 200 to 150 supply + better ups --> Better keep dropping while turtling with main army so my opponent can catch up in supply.
And if he wants to attack before he gets Ghost out, then he should start his ghost academy earlier so his timings are lined up so he actually can take advantage of being up 50 supply. His overall playstyle is simply completely relied upon being able to win the very very late game vs toss and you don't do that against a skilled protoss that doesn't die to counterattacks/doom drops in the late game.
But after Ty threw his gigantic lead, Showtime came back and for mysterious reason thought it was good to attack against Ty at 165 supply (???) when Ty still had better ups + ghosts out + critical amount of Vikings. That was just a bad decision by Showtime. Unlikely that Zest will do the same.
On April 24 2016 20:43 Lil_nooblet wrote: I think one of the biggest factors in Zest vs TY will be Zest's experience on the big stage. The final is going to be in a big auditorium in front of a huge crowd and I wonder how TY will react with it being his first final. We all know Zest won't be fazed but I wonder if it will effect TY's play at all.
I agree, Zest has won couple championship before, he has been on those big stages , so he will definitely know how to deal with the pressure things.
On April 24 2016 20:43 Lil_nooblet wrote: I think one of the biggest factors in Zest vs TY will be Zest's experience on the big stage. The final is going to be in a big auditorium in front of a huge crowd and I wonder how TY will react with it being his first final. We all know Zest won't be fazed but I wonder if it will effect TY's play at all.
As Zest himself put it, he's a veteran player, he has been in the finals (and win them) several times, whereas this is TY's first time. The experience aspect leans towards Zest, so does the match up. However, this being a teamkill finals will bring a lot of weird stuff and might cancel out Zest's advantages
I think this time things will be different, in this GSL journey ,TY won against Trap, Super and MyuNgSiK, but lost to Dear, (Trap, super and MyungSik are good but not great atm) and the other top class Protoss in Hots like herO, Classic, SoS are not in their good form right now, so basically TY hasn't really ever met an even protoss opponent yet. But Zest, man...is obviously way more than even.
and yes teamkill will bring some weird stuff, but is it weird enough to undo the invincible aura around Zest? I doubt that
Guys don't forget how bad (in comparison to his usual level) Zest plays against teammates. Sometimes it's even painful to watch. If he drops in skill like that and TY manages to keep his head cool then TY is favored. But if Zest plays like he's been playing up until now then TY is screwed.
On April 24 2016 22:52 Silvana wrote: Guys don't forget how bad (in comparison to his usual level) Zest plays against teammates. Sometimes it's even painful to watch. If he drops in skill like that and TY manages to keep his head cool then TY is favored. But if Zest plays like he's been playing up until now then TY is screwed.
did Zest ever win against his teammate? in a series I mean?
On April 24 2016 22:52 Silvana wrote: Guys don't forget how bad (in comparison to his usual level) Zest plays against teammates. Sometimes it's even painful to watch. If he drops in skill like that and TY manages to keep his head cool then TY is favored. But if Zest plays like he's been playing up until now then TY is screwed.
did Zest ever win against his teammate? in a series I mean?
Offline he always loses, online he almost always wins.
Just watched the games, Zest is really on a higher level than all these other top pros. I hope TY will win in the finals but I don't think it's likely.
Thank you Elentos very much! Do you maybe know whats procedure for tickets/entering? Are there any tickets and how much before should I arrive? Thanks again
On April 25 2016 02:46 Srdjan11 wrote: Thank you Elentos very much! Do you maybe know whats procedure for tickets/entering? Are there any tickets and how much before should I arrive? Thanks again
The entrance is free, first come first serve, if you come early then you can get good seats
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yyr0WEr.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vursH.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/usericons/348366.png)
AfreecaTV Korea | 
TwitchTV | 
O'Gaming TV![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CMU99oi.png)
Tasteless | ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2EGwEAn.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xo97b.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/958.jpg)
Zest vs ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jgmCp.png)
Zest wins 4-0 and advances to the Grand Finals!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Joub3.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H5LzV.png)
hm ok
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5obzmtCEAANZIh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1l9kxhm)
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