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On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:
The only rule is that was broken is
]If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament.
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On February 17 2016 09:33 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:14 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:59 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:51 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:35 IeZaeL wrote:
Honestly rifkin is so full of himself I cant even stand him. From my point of view a won map is a won map, If it was firecake that started the match as a host then its his fault and should be grateful to even get the opportunity to replay the game, let alone get a w/o lol. Way to go bttv Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Ok, I thought he knew, my bad. Still, no reason to disagree on the re-play, just accept the apologies and start over the serie. Even if you throw,it is still better than 2 months ban. When you prefer to take the 2 months ban, maybe you don't deserve to be called "professional" gamer. A "real life" job would get you fired for less than that. What do you mean with "real life" job. This is a competition, playing this game again makes the competition and the results a joke. In no other sport would a game like this be played again, if only one team was aware of the rules and is at fault. If a rematch was really enforced, every professional sportsman/team would and should complain. Once again, warn FireCake and cast the replay. Everybody is happy, no drama at all, the bracket is fine. If they really want to punish someone, just DQ FireCake for starting the game after explicitly being told not to (I would not agree with this since it was an honest mistake from FireCake I think, but it's 100 times better than forcing SortOf to play again). Taking in account a game that wasn't played acccording to the rules feels quite amateurish no? To me, the right decision was to warn Firecake for the stupid mistake, obviously. Then try to find a way with the player. I believe Firecake would have accepted the loss if asked, but it wasn't the case from my understanding. Sortof just got mad straight and chose the ban. As such, it is deserved. The only rule is that was broken is If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament.
The problem is, they did not request of SortOf to hold the match.
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On February 17 2016 09:35 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:33 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:14 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:59 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:51 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:35 IeZaeL wrote:
Honestly rifkin is so full of himself I cant even stand him. From my point of view a won map is a won map, If it was firecake that started the match as a host then its his fault and should be grateful to even get the opportunity to replay the game, let alone get a w/o lol. Way to go bttv Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. https://twitter.com/SortOfSC/status/699737040640987138Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Ok, I thought he knew, my bad. Still, no reason to disagree on the re-play, just accept the apologies and start over the serie. Even if you throw,it is still better than 2 months ban. When you prefer to take the 2 months ban, maybe you don't deserve to be called "professional" gamer. A "real life" job would get you fired for less than that. What do you mean with "real life" job. This is a competition, playing this game again makes the competition and the results a joke. In no other sport would a game like this be played again, if only one team was aware of the rules and is at fault. If a rematch was really enforced, every professional sportsman/team would and should complain. Once again, warn FireCake and cast the replay. Everybody is happy, no drama at all, the bracket is fine. If they really want to punish someone, just DQ FireCake for starting the game after explicitly being told not to (I would not agree with this since it was an honest mistake from FireCake I think, but it's 100 times better than forcing SortOf to play again). Taking in account a game that wasn't played acccording to the rules feels quite amateurish no? To me, the right decision was to warn Firecake for the stupid mistake, obviously. Then try to find a way with the player. I believe Firecake would have accepted the loss if asked, but it wasn't the case from my understanding. Sortof just got mad straight and chose the ban. As such, it is deserved. The only rule is that was broken is If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament. The problem is, they did not request of SortOf to hold the match.
So what? Rules doesnt apply to him? What kind of rule is that?
One player doesnt respect rules, game doesnt count. Final dot. Is it not about who knows, nor who wins. Rules doesn't have to be smart to be respected. I understand Sortof got mad, but he still lacked of professionalism.
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Community casters trying to act like Kespa Nazis... -_-
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On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_-
Fixed that for you.
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On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you.
Making this a huge drama is hardly professional
But drama is what the community likes so who knows
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On February 17 2016 09:37 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:35 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:33 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:14 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:59 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:51 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:35 IeZaeL wrote:
Honestly rifkin is so full of himself I cant even stand him. From my point of view a won map is a won map, If it was firecake that started the match as a host then its his fault and should be grateful to even get the opportunity to replay the game, let alone get a w/o lol. Way to go bttv Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. https://twitter.com/SortOfSC/status/699737040640987138Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Ok, I thought he knew, my bad. Still, no reason to disagree on the re-play, just accept the apologies and start over the serie. Even if you throw,it is still better than 2 months ban. When you prefer to take the 2 months ban, maybe you don't deserve to be called "professional" gamer. A "real life" job would get you fired for less than that. What do you mean with "real life" job. This is a competition, playing this game again makes the competition and the results a joke. In no other sport would a game like this be played again, if only one team was aware of the rules and is at fault. If a rematch was really enforced, every professional sportsman/team would and should complain. Once again, warn FireCake and cast the replay. Everybody is happy, no drama at all, the bracket is fine. If they really want to punish someone, just DQ FireCake for starting the game after explicitly being told not to (I would not agree with this since it was an honest mistake from FireCake I think, but it's 100 times better than forcing SortOf to play again). Taking in account a game that wasn't played acccording to the rules feels quite amateurish no? To me, the right decision was to warn Firecake for the stupid mistake, obviously. Then try to find a way with the player. I believe Firecake would have accepted the loss if asked, but it wasn't the case from my understanding. Sortof just got mad straight and chose the ban. As such, it is deserved. The only rule is that was broken is If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament. The problem is, they did not request of SortOf to hold the match. So what? Rules doesnt apply to him? What kind of rule is that? One player doesnt respect rules, game doesnt count. Final dot. Is it not about who knows, nor who wins. Rules doesn't have to be smart to be respected. I understand Sortof got mad, but he still lacked of professionalism.
Obviuosly both players have to be requested to hold the match, or this can easily be exploited to get a rematch if only 1 player is aware of the fact that casters should be in the game. And also how did he lack professionalism? He did not flame or insult anybody. What he did was very professional. He was trying to uphold the legitimacy of the competition and all the rules that he could've known about. Any player in his postion should refuse to play map 1 again.
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On February 17 2016 09:43 Yiome wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you. Making this a huge drama is hardly professional But drama is what the community likes so who knows
I fully agree, thus I already said that Sortof wasn't professional. You can't be seriously saying that BTTV by applying the rules is not professional.
Drama came from some players reactions mostly I believe.
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On February 17 2016 09:44 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:37 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:35 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:33 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:14 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:59 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:51 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:
[quote]
Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. https://twitter.com/SortOfSC/status/699737040640987138Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Ok, I thought he knew, my bad. Still, no reason to disagree on the re-play, just accept the apologies and start over the serie. Even if you throw,it is still better than 2 months ban. When you prefer to take the 2 months ban, maybe you don't deserve to be called "professional" gamer. A "real life" job would get you fired for less than that. What do you mean with "real life" job. This is a competition, playing this game again makes the competition and the results a joke. In no other sport would a game like this be played again, if only one team was aware of the rules and is at fault. If a rematch was really enforced, every professional sportsman/team would and should complain. Once again, warn FireCake and cast the replay. Everybody is happy, no drama at all, the bracket is fine. If they really want to punish someone, just DQ FireCake for starting the game after explicitly being told not to (I would not agree with this since it was an honest mistake from FireCake I think, but it's 100 times better than forcing SortOf to play again). Taking in account a game that wasn't played acccording to the rules feels quite amateurish no? To me, the right decision was to warn Firecake for the stupid mistake, obviously. Then try to find a way with the player. I believe Firecake would have accepted the loss if asked, but it wasn't the case from my understanding. Sortof just got mad straight and chose the ban. As such, it is deserved. The only rule is that was broken is If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament. The problem is, they did not request of SortOf to hold the match. So what? Rules doesnt apply to him? What kind of rule is that? One player doesnt respect rules, game doesnt count. Final dot. Is it not about who knows, nor who wins. Rules doesn't have to be smart to be respected. I understand Sortof got mad, but he still lacked of professionalism. Obviuosly both players have to be requested to hold the match, or this can easily be exploited to get a rematch if only 1 player is aware of the fact that casters should be in the game. And also how did he lack professionalism? He did not flame or insult anybody. What he did was very professional. He was trying to uphold the legitimacy of the competition and all the rules that he could've known about. Any player in his postion should refuse to play map 1 again.
I agree it can be exploited, which is why I said previously that rules may not be smart.
Also, when your first reaction is to disconnect from the game and complain on twitter maybe you are not professional enough. He didn't even try to discuss the case with Firecake.
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On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you.
Childish tantrums are the opposite of professionalism. I mean wow, Rifkin giving SortOf a 2 month ban on top of it? How petty can you get?
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On February 17 2016 09:46 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:43 Yiome wrote:On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you. Making this a huge drama is hardly professional But drama is what the community likes so who knows I fully agree, thus I already said that Sortof wasn't professional. You can't be seriously saying that BTTV by applying the rules is not professional. Drama came from some players reactions mostly I believe.
Read SortOf tweets, he was alway professional and only stated facts in a calm manner. He is the one that tried to apply the rules. There is only drama because BTTV made a bad decision and handled the situation very poorly.
SortOf is the only person who is not at fault. Both FireCake and BTTV failed.
I am not biased to any of those people, if anything like FireCake the most out of all them.
On February 17 2016 09:49 SChlafmann wrote:
I agree it can be exploited, which is why I said previously that rules may not be smart.
Also, when your first reaction is to disconnect from the game and complain on twitter maybe you are not professional enough. He didn't even try to discuss the case with Firecake.
The rule is smart, since it can be assumed that both players have to be requested to hold the game not just one (otherwise it can be exploited). Since SortOf was not informed, the rule was not broken and the game counts.
Well I really have to sleep, if you are still not convinced we can agree to disagree. Was till nice discussing this in a calm manner, good night  .
Edit: Just found one last thing. The rule is not even mentioned on today's qualifier page.
http://challonge.com/TINGWCQual1
It's only on the qualifier 2 page.
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On February 17 2016 09:49 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you. Childish tantrums are the opposite of professionalism. I mean wow, Rifkin giving SortOf a 2 month ban on top of it? How petty can you get?
Rifkin said on stream that he was supposed to permaban SortOf but he was not willing to. This is how it ended up being "only" 2 months.
Rules were followed, despite how stupid they are. Stop the drama now and helps providing better rules if you don't like them.
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On February 17 2016 09:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:46 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:43 Yiome wrote:On February 17 2016 09:41 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:37 ZAiNs wrote:
Community casters trying to act like professionals.. -_- Fixed that for you. Making this a huge drama is hardly professional But drama is what the community likes so who knows I fully agree, thus I already said that Sortof wasn't professional. You can't be seriously saying that BTTV by applying the rules is not professional. Drama came from some players reactions mostly I believe. Read SortOf tweets, he was alway professional and only stated facts in a calm manner. He is the one that tried to apply the rules. There is only drama because BTTV made a bad decision and handled the situation very poorly. SortOf is the only person who is not at fault. Both FireCake and BTTV failed. I am not biased to any of those people, if anything like FireCake the most out of all them. Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:49 SChlafmann wrote:
I agree it can be exploited, which is why I said previously that rules may not be smart.
Also, when your first reaction is to disconnect from the game and complain on twitter maybe you are not professional enough. He didn't even try to discuss the case with Firecake.
The rule is smart, since it can be assumed that both players have to be requested to hold the game not just one (otherwise it can be exploited). Since SortOf was not informed, the rule was not broken and the game counts. Well I really have to sleep, if you are still not convinced we can agree to disagree. Was till nice discussing this in a calm manner, good night .
I agree that it can be assumed that both players have to be requested to hold the game not just one. Still, the one that has the power to apply the rules did not assumed it.
You can disagree, fact is that Rifkin was allowed by the rules to take the decision he took.
Maybe if Rifkin was more clear about which part of the rules applies SortOf wouldn't have said in his tweet that no rules support the decision. And the worst part, let's face it, is players not involved starting the drama without trying to know the facts.
Aaaaaaaand, good night my dear 
Good night to you too.
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On February 17 2016 09:37 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 09:35 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:33 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 09:20 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 09:14 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:59 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:51 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:35 IeZaeL wrote:
Honestly rifkin is so full of himself I cant even stand him. From my point of view a won map is a won map, If it was firecake that started the match as a host then its his fault and should be grateful to even get the opportunity to replay the game, let alone get a w/o lol. Way to go bttv Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. https://twitter.com/SortOfSC/status/699737040640987138Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Ok, I thought he knew, my bad. Still, no reason to disagree on the re-play, just accept the apologies and start over the serie. Even if you throw,it is still better than 2 months ban. When you prefer to take the 2 months ban, maybe you don't deserve to be called "professional" gamer. A "real life" job would get you fired for less than that. What do you mean with "real life" job. This is a competition, playing this game again makes the competition and the results a joke. In no other sport would a game like this be played again, if only one team was aware of the rules and is at fault. If a rematch was really enforced, every professional sportsman/team would and should complain. Once again, warn FireCake and cast the replay. Everybody is happy, no drama at all, the bracket is fine. If they really want to punish someone, just DQ FireCake for starting the game after explicitly being told not to (I would not agree with this since it was an honest mistake from FireCake I think, but it's 100 times better than forcing SortOf to play again). Taking in account a game that wasn't played acccording to the rules feels quite amateurish no? To me, the right decision was to warn Firecake for the stupid mistake, obviously. Then try to find a way with the player. I believe Firecake would have accepted the loss if asked, but it wasn't the case from my understanding. Sortof just got mad straight and chose the ban. As such, it is deserved. The only rule is that was broken is If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count.
So it was not within the published rules. Ok it sucks but I don't get what else you are looking for. BTTV took the correct action not to discretit their rules and the tournament. The problem is, they did not request of SortOf to hold the match. So what? Rules doesnt apply to him? What kind of rule is that?
^^ How can you be so blind? YOU quoted: "If an admin request you hold your match....", the guy told you an admin did not request to hold the match, and your answer is "Rules doesnt apply to him?". The point was the rule does apply and a request was not made to the part about "YOU MUST WAIT" doesn't apply. If you are going to quote the rules then at least be able to follow the logic.
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I can't tell if SChlafmann is not writing his thoughts clearly, or if he's contradicting himself.
Regardless, the end result is a poor situation for both BaseTradeTV and SortOf. Better communication was needed from BaseTradeTV to prevent such an occurrence. Placing the blame on SortOf entirely is comical.
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^^ true. Rifkin should've provided a more detailed explanation. i'm 51% in favour of Rifkin on this debacle. When if he handled it in a much more transparent way I would've been 90% in favour of Rifkin.
if Rifkin continues with this "i never make errors ever" act it just adds fuel to the fire of the growing mob of people who've been banned from his chat for borderline innocuous stuff and can't wait to trash him in every public forum possible for the slightest transgression.
On February 17 2016 08:47 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:39 SChlafmann wrote:On February 17 2016 08:35 IeZaeL wrote:
Honestly rifkin is so full of himself I cant even stand him. From my point of view a won map is a won map, If it was firecake that started the match as a host then its his fault and should be grateful to even get the opportunity to replay the game, let alone get a w/o lol. Way to go bttv Well, let me disagree with that. Both players were aware of the rules, both players have to agree for the game to start and both did. Also, it was decided before the end of the game that it woult not count. SortOf did not now that they should not start without casters. Only FireCake had this information. FireCake was told not to start without casters and still did. SortOf knew nothing. In no world should he be forced to play that game again. https://twitter.com/SortOfSC/status/699737040640987138Just warn FireCake and cast the replay. Edit: The fact that all qualifying games have to be casted is not in the rules http://www.basetrade.tv/rules/The relevant rule is: Show nested quote +If an admin request you hold your match, YOU MUST WAIT. If you begin your match without admin approval, that score will not count. But they only told FireCake and not SortOf.
the word "request" is no where in
http://www.basetrade.tv/rules/
furthermore, there is no rule using the phrase "the score will not count".
are you just making shit up? or what?
you probably are referring to this rule which i copy and pasted from the site
"Admins may postpone a match to allow casters or observers to join"
there is nothing in the rule that says "score will not count". Furthermore, the vague verb tense in the rule makes it sound like it is a match that is about to occur but has not begun yet. You can not postpone a match already in progress. The wording is vague, however, its clear someone somewhere broke the spirit of the rule.
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The thing is, the rule saying all qualifying matches must be casted WASN'T IN THE RULEBOOK
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The case is clear.
BaseTradeTV reserves the right to change the rules at any time.
Whatever they say is right.
Furthermore:
Admins may postpone a match to allow casters or observers to join.
Sounds like BTTV should have at least given FC a formal warning if he knew about that but told SortOf to play the official match (though they don't have to), yet, they explicitely put it in the rules that they can delay matches. Whether SortOf knew about that is besides the point, ignorantia legis non excusat.
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Quote instead of edit... May as well use this to talk about something meaningful:
Vote for me, if you wanna live!
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lol wtf... Ties game 1-1 "eh fuck it I give up right before the qualifier".
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EPT
