On December 14 2015 21:22 pure.Wasted wrote: Basically the only Terran vs actually the only Protoss. Well that's not great for sports digitainment.
How dare you imply Sorry isn't a real Terran? He made Solar rage quit in GSL with consecutive 8/8/8s! He proxied siege tanks in the Grand Finals of Proleague this year! If that's not a real Terran, then nobody is!
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
On December 14 2015 21:22 pure.Wasted wrote: Basically the only Terran vs actually the only Protoss. Well that's not great for sports digitainment.
How dare you imply Sorry isn't a real Terran? He made Solar rage quit in GSL with consecutive 8/8/8s! He proxied siege tanks in the Grand Finals of Proleague this year! If that's not a real Terran, then nobody is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6FjjZr9JQE
Ahh sweet 2013, where everybody sucked. 1:20-1:30 in the video TB says only pro players click on gas to see how much have been mined.
Right now I'll consider it standard for any diamond player and up. At least in PvZ and PvT. I've never done it in PvP, but gas first is not really used. And you'd be able to see the delay in gateway if you scouted on time. There has been a gas first (one gas) DT build, but if you play safe vs DTs, it doesn't matter.
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
So that 60th ranked GM player really was innovation? He's usually always the top or near to top of ladder.
Well, that's his main account. I don't know about all potential barcodes. The thing is also that SKT transitioned to LotV really late. They had Proleague finals, a bunch of guys at Blizzcon and to top it off vacation on Hawaii. Probably still getting used to some things.
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
Didn't Maru lose to a random protoss in the qualifier? And isn't INno known for his multitask?
I don't see either how the things you said after listing terrans have to do with tactics :x.
But yeah INno had a lot of success when he could abuse obvious things mechanically or when the meta is a bit stabilized, 39% winrate is still a worrying trend (lol) for someone of his caliber!
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
Didn't Maru lose to a random protoss in the qualifier? And isn't INno known for his multitask?
I don't see either how the things you said after listing terrans have to do with tactics :x.
But yeah INno had a lot of success when he could abuse obvious things mechanically or when the meta is a bit stabilized, 39% winrate is still a worrying trend (lol) for someone of his caliber!
Sure, Maru might have lost to a protoss in the qualifier, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about his win percentage in TvP. Just like I'm not judging Innovation's TvP based off of a single match, but the 39% win percentage somebody mentioned that was over 100 games.
And what I'm trying to describe (poorly) isn't exactly multitasking, but the decisions made about how and where to use that multitasking. That's what I mean by 'tactics.' Just the ability to make brilliant on-the-fly decisions about where and when to push, what exact amount of units to split between a drop here, a drop there, and a main push at the front, etc.
I guess the best way to put it is that it seems like LOTV is pretty chaotic, and whereas someone like Maru seems to thrive in chaos, Innovation seems to crumble. Inno likes to win games through game control.
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
Didn't Maru lose to a random protoss in the qualifier? And isn't INno known for his multitask?
I don't see either how the things you said after listing terrans have to do with tactics :x.
But yeah INno had a lot of success when he could abuse obvious things mechanically or when the meta is a bit stabilized, 39% winrate is still a worrying trend (lol) for someone of his caliber!
Has no one considered that he has many GM accounts? And this is the one with his actual name on, so he might not use his actual builds on it? He might just f around and try stuff.
Dark vs Solarin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. Dark is at 45.39% Blizzcon Chances, with a 45.48% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 46.41%, or 44.53% if they lose. Solar is at 62.76% Blizzcon Chances, with a 54.52% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 63.71%, or 61.61% if they lose.
Life vs DongRaeGuin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. Life has the #2 Headband. Life is at 47.1% Blizzcon Chances, with a 62.39% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 47.75%, or 46.02% if they lose. DongRaeGu is at 9.19% Blizzcon Chances, with a 37.61% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 9.49%, or 9.01% if they lose.
herO vs TYin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. herO is at 44.97% Blizzcon Chances, with a 55.12% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 45.89%, or 43.83% if they lose. TY is at 31.78% Blizzcon Chances, with a 44.88% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 32.58%, or 31.14% if they lose.
Symbol vs Sorryin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. Symbol is at 3.61% Blizzcon Chances, with a 55.92% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 3.68%, or 3.51% if they lose. Sorry is at 1.73% Blizzcon Chances, with a 44.08% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 1.78%, or 1.69% if they lose.
Reality vs Bunnyin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. Reality is at 23.24% Blizzcon Chances, with a 65.14% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 23.6%, or 22.56% if they lose. Bunny is at 0.71% Blizzcon Chances, with a 34.86% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 0.74%, or 0.7% if they lose.
Hurricane vs Zestin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. Hurricane is at 7.35% Blizzcon Chances, with a 34.33% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 7.62%, or 7.2% if they lose. Zest is at 35.92% Blizzcon Chances, with a 65.67% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 36.4%, or 35.01% if they lose.
ByuL vs Dearin in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. ByuL is at 32.13% Blizzcon Chances, with a 50.07% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 32.88%, or 31.38% if they lose. Dear is at 25.83% Blizzcon Chances, with a 49.93% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 26.52%, or 25.15% if they lose.
TRUE vs Fortein in GSL Preseason 1 round of 16. TRUE is at 27.35% Blizzcon Chances, with a 58.82% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 27.91%, or 26.54% if they lose. Forte is at 1.03% Blizzcon Chances, with a 41.18% chance to win this match. If they win their Blizzcon Chances go up to 1.06%, or 1.01% if they lose.
Winning Chances Solar has a 12.5% chance to win ----going from 62.76% to 70.99% if they get 1st, or 61.58% if they don't. Life has a 10.69% chance to win ----going from 47.1% to 56.55% if they get 1st, or 45.97% if they don't. herO has a 10.58% chance to win ----going from 44.97% to 54.58% if they get 1st, or 43.83% if they don't. Zest has a 8.42% chance to win ----going from 35.92% to 45.65% if they get 1st, or 35.03% if they don't. TRUE has a 8.21% chance to win ----going from 27.35% to 36.45% if they get 1st, or 26.53% if they don't. + Show Spoiler [More Winning Chances] +
Dark has a 8.09% chance to win ----going from 45.39% to 55.06% if they get 1st, or 44.54% if they don't. ByuL has a 7.43% chance to win ----going from 32.13% to 41.52% if they get 1st, or 31.38% if they don't. Reality has a 7.33% chance to win ----going from 23.24% to 32.08% if they get 1st, or 22.54% if they don't. Dear has a 6.73% chance to win ----going from 25.83% to 35.12% if they get 1st, or 25.16% if they don't. TY has a 6.52% chance to win ----going from 31.78% to 41.46% if they get 1st, or 31.11% if they don't. Symbol has a 3.07% chance to win ----going from 3.61% to 6.79% if they get 1st, or 3.5% if they don't. DongRaeGu has a 3.02% chance to win ----going from 9.19% to 14.93% if they get 1st, or 9.01% if they don't. Hurricane has a 2.71% chance to win ----going from 7.35% to 12.58% if they get 1st, or 7.2% if they don't. Sorry has a 1.87% chance to win ----going from 1.73% to 3.73% if they get 1st, or 1.69% if they don't. Forte has a 1.56% chance to win ----going from 1.03% to 2.36% if they get 1st, or 1.01% if they don't. Bunny has a 1.25% chance to win ----going from 0.71% to 1.74% if they get 1st, or 0.7% if they don't.
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
Didn't Maru lose to a random protoss in the qualifier? And isn't INno known for his multitask?
I don't see either how the things you said after listing terrans have to do with tactics :x.
But yeah INno had a lot of success when he could abuse obvious things mechanically or when the meta is a bit stabilized, 39% winrate is still a worrying trend (lol) for someone of his caliber!
Sure, Maru might have lost to a protoss in the qualifier, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about his win percentage in TvP. Just like I'm not judging Innovation's TvP based off of a single match, but the 39% win percentage somebody mentioned that was over 100 games.
And what I'm trying to describe (poorly) isn't exactly multitasking, but the decisions made about how and where to use that multitasking. That's what I mean by 'tactics.' Just the ability to make brilliant on-the-fly decisions about where and when to push, what exact amount of units to split between a drop here, a drop there, and a main push at the front, etc.
I guess the best way to put it is that it seems like LOTV is pretty chaotic, and whereas someone like Maru seems to thrive in chaos, Innovation seems to crumble. Inno likes to win games through game control.
Uh? Ladder games mean nothing in the sense that all their only goal... is to help you win tournament matches. So we don't really care about Maru win percentage in ladder TvP, what is important is how he fares in actual tournaments/qualifiers and if I understand correctly, there are no Code S spot from HotS so you have to qualify no matter who you, thus it was not only a qualifier match, but a very important qualifier match. So basically all your TvP ladder games lead to your performance in this bo3 match and while it doesn't say much about your current skill in the matchup, it says a lot more than your ladder winrate, because INno could "struggle" on his main account yet pull out an important win in the matchup.
For the tactics thingy, I did not follow HotS much but it seemed stale enough to basically have all terrans doing the same things "tactically".
ZvZ is obviously hard to call, so whatever i guess. TY has a huge fanboy bonus, but he played pretty well in LOTV so far so i think he can do it realistically. Zerg > Terran, especially if none of them is that great to begin with.
ZvZ is obviously hard to call, so whatever i guess. TY has a huge fanboy bonus, but he played pretty well in LOTV so far so i think he can do it realistically. Zerg > Terran, especially if none of them is that great to begin with.
That, some I just know, and many pros are currently using their main account (non-barcode) in GM. Like INnoVation with his 39% TvP winrate.
Well, Innovation's TvP was never really something that (in my opinion, at least) would translate well into LOTV. From what I saw, his successes largely came off of the back of pull-the-boys all-ins, hellbat drops, widow mine drops, a proxy here and there, and holding off Protoss all-ins.
He never really seemed to me to have the brilliant tactical mind - especially in TvP - that LOTV really rewards you for. Players like Maru, Bbyong, TY, Polt, Gumiho, Fantasy, just to name a few - while none of them had the powerful macro and build order execution that Innovation had, they are all amazing at getting every last bit of value out of every one of their units, positioning their forces just right, pulling their opponent to one location with one drop while simultaneously microing a small drop somewhere else, etc. That's just my take, but it doesn't surprise me that Innovation would struggle with Protoss in LOTV.
Didn't Maru lose to a random protoss in the qualifier? And isn't INno known for his multitask?
I don't see either how the things you said after listing terrans have to do with tactics :x.
But yeah INno had a lot of success when he could abuse obvious things mechanically or when the meta is a bit stabilized, 39% winrate is still a worrying trend (lol) for someone of his caliber!
Has no one considered that he has many GM accounts? And this is the one with his actual name on, so he might not use his actual builds on it? He might just f around and try stuff.
His other winrates were way better, his TvT was at 70% when I checked it. He's not fucking around too much.
On December 15 2015 07:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: This is for sc2 though. The only relevant hero (i even did the capital "o") is CJ.herO. So yeah, i will use "herO" and if it doesn't work, whatever.
You're right, it doesn't make sense. And they had it changed at some point so you could get CJ herO and Liquid HerO easier with TLPD. And then they changed it back for whatever reason.
On December 15 2015 07:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: This is for sc2 though. The only relevant hero (i even did the capital "o") is CJ.herO. So yeah, i will use "herO" and if it doesn't work, whatever.
You're right, it doesn't make sense. And they had it changed at some point so you could get CJ herO and Liquid HerO easier with TLPD. And then they changed it back for whatever reason.
This really happened right? I remember it that way too but wasn't 100% sure anymore if that might be just some weird created memory of mine. herO should be CJherO, pls teamliquid dot net
Other than that. I am excited to see TY play. ZvZ will hopefully lead to some weird games with ultralisks, vipers and infestors. That's all.
So will it be at least 720p for free users? I haven't kept up since I stopped watching GSL when they only gave really bad quality for free (and even paid wasn't that impressive)
On December 15 2015 17:38 Seiniyta wrote: So will it be at least 720p for free users? I haven't kept up since I stopped watching GSL when they only gave really bad quality for free (and even paid wasn't that impressive)
Can't wait, just thinking about GSL brings a smile to my face, its been part of my life for so long now and didn't even realize how much I've missed it until I saw the wait screen :D
On December 15 2015 18:32 Seiniyta wrote: I have to be honest, I think I preferred the GSL studio look over the Afreeca backdrop. Looks a bit more..uuh, childish? XD
have you seen what's on Korean TV? Compared to that, this is like hardcore porn set
Holy shit I can watch 1080p on afreeca global without any lags I haven't been able to do that on twitch ever since I moved to this new students home, sooo fucking excited!!
On December 15 2015 18:36 Heartland wrote: how many times will Tasteless say LotV is "a totally new game" and how superior it is to HotS while complaining over HotS stuff?
Well this way he can complain and whine about everything he hated in HotS while not getting people too angry at him =P
We got the best SC2 players in the world playing in the most competitive league in the world, with 2 of the best casters available, with a good quality lag free stream and its free of cost
On December 15 2015 18:55 Topdoller wrote: Why are people always bitching on this forum?
We got the best SC2 players in the world playing in the most competitive league in the world, with 2 of the best casters available, with a good quality lag free stream and its free of cost
Be happy people for once !!
It's not a forum if we don't complain about something!
More seriously, I'm happy we're back. But they still need better makeup, haha.
If Solar wins, it's obvious, because solar rays are pretty good at defeating darkness. If Dark wins, it's obvious, because solar power does not work well in the dark
On December 15 2015 19:08 opisska wrote: If Solar wins, it's obvious, because solar rays are pretty good at defeating darkness. If Dark wins, it's obvious, because solar power does not work well in the dark
Dark still made that look way to close. He should have expanded after he was keeping Solar on 2 base!!! Due to shutting his 3rd down with burrow roaches. At one point they both maxed with Solar on 26 drones vs 51 of Dark and Dark sat with 1k 1k bank vs 100/100 for Solar. Yet that ending happened! lol Clearly Dark didn't have enough lava due to not enough hatcheries.
I feel like Artosis and Tasteless are casting way better right now than in late HotS. With the downtime early in the game taken out they get to actually focussing on the game instead of just banter. Now it's actual casting with some banter thrown in which is way more fun to me
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
To be fair Tastosis were already trashing ZvZ in HotS.
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
Well they can't really shit on the game while casting it, it's just unprofessional. But guys like Nathanias or Incontrol have complained about Hots in Talk Shows and I think Artosis did that all the time on State of the game, so it's not really disingenuous.
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
On December 15 2015 19:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I find it funny how much casters trash the old HotS matchups now that it's LotV. They make themselves look disingenuous to an extent
they did the same thing after wol too
Late WoL was pretty garbage though
Late HotS ZvZ wasn't that great either.
It's the start of a new expansion, and it's better than the old. Or at least more interesting, until things get nailed down again.
On December 15 2015 19:49 Heartland wrote: they have a 16 player single elim bracket and only the winner gets into Code S?
Yes! Bit of money on the line too, all less than $1000 but for online cup not bad, nice training exercise
but there are other chances to get into Code S as well or is it that if you blow it in this one bracket you're out? That seems.. bad.
This is just pre season. The GSL qualifiers will begin in January :D This just added bonus to keep us starcraft nerds hyped up with some Korean games over the festive period :D
2 Code S seeds will be known from these 2 pre season qualifiers. Then everyone goes into the crazy qualifier who didn't make it in January for the other 30 places.
On December 15 2015 19:49 Heartland wrote: they have a 16 player single elim bracket and only the winner gets into Code S?
Yes! Bit of money on the line too, all less than $1000 but for online cup not bad, nice training exercise
but there are other chances to get into Code S as well or is it that if you blow it in this one bracket you're out? That seems.. bad.
This is just pre season. The GSL qualifiers will begin in January :D This just added bonus to keep us starcraft nerds hyped up with some Korean games over the festive period :D
2 Code S seeds will be known from these 2 pre season qualifiers. Then everyone goes into the crazy qualifier who didn't make it in January for the other 30 places.
No, it will be just the two people from this. It's a part of Blizzard overhaul of WCS2016, trust me I have insider info
On December 15 2015 19:49 Heartland wrote: they have a 16 player single elim bracket and only the winner gets into Code S?
Yes! Bit of money on the line too, all less than $1000 but for online cup not bad, nice training exercise
but there are other chances to get into Code S as well or is it that if you blow it in this one bracket you're out? That seems.. bad.
This is just pre season. The GSL qualifiers will begin in January :D This just added bonus to keep us starcraft nerds hyped up with some Korean games over the festive period :D
2 Code S seeds will be known from these 2 pre season qualifiers. Then everyone goes into the crazy qualifier who didn't make it in January for the other 30 places.
No, it will be just the two people from this. It's a part of Blizzard overhaul of WCS2016, trust me I have insider info
On December 15 2015 19:49 Heartland wrote: they have a 16 player single elim bracket and only the winner gets into Code S?
Yes! Bit of money on the line too, all less than $1000 but for online cup not bad, nice training exercise
but there are other chances to get into Code S as well or is it that if you blow it in this one bracket you're out? That seems.. bad.
This is just pre season. The GSL qualifiers will begin in January :D This just added bonus to keep us starcraft nerds hyped up with some Korean games over the festive period :D
2 Code S seeds will be known from these 2 pre season qualifiers. Then everyone goes into the crazy qualifier who didn't make it in January for the other 30 places.
No, it will be just the two people from this. It's a part of Blizzard overhaul of WCS2016, trust me I have insider info
These two seeds are actually straight into Blizzcon 2016, trust me I have insider info
On December 15 2015 19:49 Heartland wrote: they have a 16 player single elim bracket and only the winner gets into Code S?
Yes! Bit of money on the line too, all less than $1000 but for online cup not bad, nice training exercise
but there are other chances to get into Code S as well or is it that if you blow it in this one bracket you're out? That seems.. bad.
This is just pre season. The GSL qualifiers will begin in January :D This just added bonus to keep us starcraft nerds hyped up with some Korean games over the festive period :D
2 Code S seeds will be known from these 2 pre season qualifiers. Then everyone goes into the crazy qualifier who didn't make it in January for the other 30 places.
No, it will be just the two people from this. It's a part of Blizzard overhaul of WCS2016, trust me I have insider info
These two seeds are actually straight into Blizzcon 2016, trust me I have insider info
The rest will be given to foreigners aswell as a "atleast you tried" card if they fall out before the finals :0
this is just fucking disgusting, protoss is sucha huge joke against terran, blizzard really needs to take their heads out of their asses and start doing something, gonna puke meanwhile watching this
On December 15 2015 20:08 Satiinifi wrote: this is just fucking disgusting, protoss is sucha huge joke against terran, blizzard really needs to take their heads out of their asses and start doing something, gonna puke meanwhile watching this
On December 15 2015 20:10 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: oh god the caffeine is wearing off and I'm all of a sudden so tired I feel ill. this is probably where I go to bed
On December 15 2015 20:12 Elentos wrote: The depressing thing is that on even army supply the first fight wasn't even close and TY only lived because there was no observer -.-
It seems unfair for Protoss to have such harass power while having the pylon cannons at the same time
On December 15 2015 20:12 Elentos wrote: The depressing thing is that on even army supply the first fight wasn't even close and TY only lived because there was no observer -.-
It seems unfair for Protoss to have such harass power while having the pylon cannons at the same time
Ehh right now terran reigns supreme in the lategame from what I've seen, so Protoss kinda needs this harassing power unless a lot of other stuff changes aswell ^^
On December 15 2015 20:12 Elentos wrote: The depressing thing is that on even army supply the first fight wasn't even close and TY only lived because there was no observer -.-
It seems unfair for Protoss to have such harass power while having the pylon cannons at the same time
Ehh right now terran reigns supreme in the lategame from what I've seen, so Protoss kinda needs this harassing power unless a lot of other stuff changes aswell ^^
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
It blocks the landing, he sent 1 marine to activate it and then was frozen and couldn't land still. All in all denies you a long time
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
It stops from landing because its a physical thing, and a Marine was freezed, however the Marine was freezed too far away so it could still land, otherwise it still wouldn't have been able to land!
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
It blocks the landing, he sent 1 marine to activate it and then was frozen and couldn't land still. All in all denies you a long time
Oh I thought I saw him land, did he then just land slightly off the spot?
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
It blocks the landing, he sent 1 marine to activate it and then was frozen and couldn't land still. All in all denies you a long time
Oh I thought I saw him land, did he then just land slightly off the spot?
On December 15 2015 20:18 Mozdk wrote: So do stasis wards block buildings landing? And then he went there with an SCV that freezed. And then he had to wait.
Is that what happened, or was it just the SCV part.
It blocks the landing, he sent 1 marine to activate it and then was frozen and couldn't land still. All in all denies you a long time
Oh I thought I saw him land, did he then just land slightly off the spot?
LOTV justs shows that there is no way on this planet i could ever be a pro at this game. Way to much goes on now for me to get anywhere near a pro in a game
On December 15 2015 20:27 Pandemona wrote: LOTV justs shows that there is no way on this planet i could ever be a pro at this game. Way to much goes on now for me to get anywhere near a pro in a game
The mechanical play required to get the best from your units is amazing
On December 15 2015 20:27 robson1 wrote: omg pvt is infinity times better in LotV. although i think toss may need a buff
#BuffAdepts
Or #BuffZealots just Buff something Gateway pls =D
#buffpylons
Pls no ;-;
I'd be fine with no MSC even if he get good Manlots and good Gateway units back again! But you'd probably have to change too much about how Protoss works for that Dream to ever become Reality
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
yeah , its going to take 6+ months to even get to the point where the players work out this game
I'm so happy that source quality is finally free. It's perfect for the new game, as new viewers will no longer turn off immediately due to being scared of going blind.
When GSL is on, there aren't many other big streams on twitch, so sc2 will always be top5 on the main page. There will always be new people clicking on the stream, so it's extremely important that the stream looks good.
Really thankful for AfreecaTV making this possible .
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
Shit never changes ;<
Balance whine, balance whine never changes.
Nah looking back at how more open and hostile it used to be at times I'll quote MGS4: "Balance whine, has changed..."
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
Normally I would agree (well, I do now as well) but liberators man..
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
yeah , its going to take 6+ months to even get to the point where the players work out this game
Hahaha I love how the roles completely reversed, back in the day Terrans where all like:
"Omg can every Protoss player please kill themselfs?"
And Protoss players were the ones going:
"Lets just wait and see how this works out, Terrans are responding completely wrong, they'll figure it out in a few months"
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
yeah , its going to take 6+ months to even get to the point where the players work out this game
Hahaha I love how the roles completely reversed, back in the day Terrans where all like:
"Omg can every Protoss player please kill themselfs?"
And Protoss players were the ones going:
"Lets just wait and see how this works out, Terrans are responding completely wrong, they'll figure it out in a few months"
Not saying anything, its just funny to me
lol word. im just so glad we have a game we whine about and can adore again! we should all be happy!
On December 15 2015 20:31 Golgotha wrote: holy shit can we just watch the game and not whine about every little shit? first day of gsl and we already got balance whine
but whining is the best part
The GSL is finally back, with Artosis, Tastelss, the balance whine, the whine about balance whine ... isn't that what we are all here for?
On December 15 2015 20:39 Grollicus wrote: protossed? or just laid on his back and let herO do whatever
The shut down from the pylon on his natural at start put him a millennia behind. Add in the gold base expansion (3rd base) up for herO by the time TY was sat on 2 base. Spirals out of control fast from then
Jesus, look at that Protoss unit variety in PvT. Zealots, Stalkers, Adepts, Sentries, Immortals, HTs, DTs, Oracles, Warp Prisms, Tempests, Phoenix, Observers, Disruptors, MSC. Basically anything you build is a viable composition.
On December 15 2015 20:41 pure.Wasted wrote: Jesus, look at that Protoss unit variety in PvT. Zealots, Stalkers, Adepts, Sentries, Immortals, HTs, DTs, Oracles, Warp Prisms, Tempests, Phoenix, Observers, Disruptors, MSC. Basically anything you build is a viable composition.
On December 15 2015 20:39 Grollicus wrote: protossed? or just laid on his back and let herO do whatever
The shut down from the pylon on his natural at start put him a millennia behind. Add in the gold base expansion (3rd base) up for herO by the time TY was sat on 2 base. Spirals out of control fast from then
Still, TY had ~10 marines in his base instead of a) killing the pylon or b) running by to force hero to defend. he had nothing (1 adept) at home
I love how Tasteless is constantly poking fun at his viewership. You really see this in every sports broadcast, where the caster talks down to the audience and puts words in their mouth.
Love their casting otherwise, but Tasteless is always doing it and it's pretty unnecessary.
On December 15 2015 20:39 Grollicus wrote: protossed? or just laid on his back and let herO do whatever
the latter
That's not true, he had no chance to deny any of what herO was doing because of how the opening went. By the time TY's natural was mining herO had a 3rd because of pylons.
On December 15 2015 20:41 pure.Wasted wrote: Jesus, look at that Protoss unit variety in PvT. Zealots, Stalkers, Adepts, Sentries, Immortals, HTs, DTs, Oracles, Warp Prisms, Tempests, Phoenix, Observers, Disruptors, MSC. Basically anything you build is a viable composition.
On December 15 2015 20:41 pure.Wasted wrote: Jesus, look at that Protoss unit variety in PvT. Zealots, Stalkers, Adepts, Sentries, Immortals, HTs, DTs, Oracles, Warp Prisms, Tempests, Phoenix, Observers, Disruptors, MSC. Basically anything you build is a viable composition.
I remember saw this quote somewhere: Protoss army is like a mini-wok, anything you put in would come out delicious
On December 15 2015 20:39 Grollicus wrote: protossed? or just laid on his back and let herO do whatever
The shut down from the pylon on his natural at start put him a millennia behind. Add in the gold base expansion (3rd base) up for herO by the time TY was sat on 2 base. Spirals out of control fast from then
Still, TY had ~10 marines in his base instead of a) killing the pylon or b) running by to force hero to defend. he had nothing (1 adept) at home
herO could have recalled and killed all the marines.
Remember lads, if you're terran, protoss is bullshit, Adepts should be nerfed and there was no way TY could win that last game. Game 2 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
Meanwhile, if you're protoss, liberators are such fucking horseshit, terran players are all whiners, and there was no way herO could win game 2. Game 3 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
On December 15 2015 20:45 VmY wrote: Remember lads, if you're terran, protoss is bullshit, Adepts should be nerfed and there was no way TY could win that last game. Game 2 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
Meanwhile, if you're protoss, liberators are such fucking horseshit, terran players are all whiners, and there was no way herO could win game 2. Game 3 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
On December 15 2015 20:45 VmY wrote: Remember lads, if you're terran, protoss is bullshit, Adepts should be nerfed and there was no way TY could win that last game. Game 2 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
Meanwhile, if you're protoss, liberators are such fucking horseshit, terran players are all whiners, and there was no way herO could win game 2. Game 3 however was a perfect display of why we should let the meta settle for a while.
yes please, let the meta settle. I'm really excited about seeing if INnoVation can make 14/13 the new ZvZ meta once he has switched.
On December 15 2015 20:43 Noonius wrote: what the hell happened to BC's in meta?
Are you joking?
I remember them being used in beta
I've only really seen them in some showmatches tbh.
There big problem is that they don't deal enough damage, now they can deal not enough damage anywhere on the map you'd like which is.... not actually that much better for the investment =P
On December 15 2015 20:45 Aeromi wrote: Any game good so far ?
yeah. herO vs TY game 2 went late with multitasking all over the map from start to finish. Though Protoss players may not enjoy seeing long-range liberators denying mining for like 3 full minutes because they can't be reached by stalkers as much as I did ^.^
On December 15 2015 20:54 Golgotha wrote: is it just me or does the casting stage that tastosis is using look like shit? looks like everything is made of cardboard
Part of it is actually made of cardboard. (The trim on the "phone")
On December 15 2015 20:54 Golgotha wrote: is it just me or does the casting stage that tastosis is using look like shit? looks like everything is made of cardboard
I find the detaching foil on the phone a nice touch
On December 15 2015 21:00 Rehio wrote: Nice, Symbol. Keep it going, keep Sorry pinned in. :D
And then Ravage him.
Edit: Oh damn, melee. Huh.
melee scales better with fast hive
Yeah. Wasn't sure whether it would be an early finish by Symbol, trying to capitalize on holding off the reapers, or the rush for Ultras. Figured both could be nice.
And then Symbol goes infestor ravager and I'm just wrong. :D Love this game.
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
Was just a visual change wasn't it? Doesn't effect them at all?
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
less of a hard-counter relation with other units (iirc marauder vs zealots cited mostly)
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
Was just a visual change wasn't it? Doesn't effect them at all?
It's a huge nerf. 2 attacks means every point of armor is counted twice.
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
Was just a visual change wasn't it? Doesn't effect them at all?
It's a huge nerf. 2 attacks means every point of armor is counted twice.
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
Was just a visual change wasn't it? Doesn't effect them at all?
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
Was just a visual change wasn't it? Doesn't effect them at all?
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
I think just to make them less of a hardcounter to ultralisks. The combination of the ultra and marauder change is like 50% less damage, while it's nearly the same against everything else, tiny bit worse vs units with armor, tiny bit better against units without.
On December 15 2015 21:07 Fyzar wrote: So what was the reason for the marauder attack change? I didn't follow the beta so don't know the reasoning behind some stuff
less of a hard-counter relation with other units (iirc marauder vs zealots cited mostly)
Now that Marauders do less dps, i wonder why they dont reverse the Nexus hitpoint buff from WoL days
Man, that game sooo reminded me of watching Broodwar. Early push to deny zerg's fourth, followed by a transition into late game where zerg can't keep up any more and loses. Only the units were different
I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
2 hours and 45 minutes for 4 bo3. With Life vs DRG being a giant cheese fest. Seems reasonable. I guess Code S groups will on average be the same length as before.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
It's actually been a topic of discussion since the first LotV tournaments. We'll see what ends up happening. More Bo5 in earlier rounds and Bo7 at maybe Semi-Finals would make sense.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
Interesting point, the games seem to over way faster than before. Bo5 might be the way to go
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
lol good point. two of the current maps in the pool are basically the same. central protocol is shit as well as lerilak
For Single Elimination brackets, I could see Bo5 being the standard by mid-year. Bo3 for Group Stages still makes more sense, as a Bo5 can still stretch for a couple of hours in LotV if things go wonky.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
lol good point. two of the current maps in the pool are basically the same. central protocol is shit as well as lerilak
I mean, when the map with 6 gold bases (including the 3rd and 4th) is one of the most played ones, you know how shit the other maps are.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
lol good point. two of the current maps in the pool are basically the same. central protocol is shit as well as lerilak
I mean, when the map with 6 gold bases (including the 3rd and 4th) is one of the most played ones, you know how shit the other maps are.
When GSL uses that map in their Pre-Season pool, you know things aren't going too well on the map front.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
lol good point. two of the current maps in the pool are basically the same. central protocol is shit as well as lerilak
I mean, when the map with 6 gold bases (including the 3rd and 4th) is one of the most played ones, you know how shit the other maps are.
yeaaaaap blizz cant make good maps consistently. ffs they need to hire some real pros
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
I think this is a really good idea , only issue is it requires 5 good maps, blizzard struggled to make 3 tbh
lol good point. two of the current maps in the pool are basically the same. central protocol is shit as well as lerilak
I mean, when the map with 6 gold bases (including the 3rd and 4th) is one of the most played ones, you know how shit the other maps are.
When GSL uses that map in their Pre-Season pool, you know things aren't going too well on the map front.
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
pylon. overcharge. liberators are much better than attacking pylons
On December 15 2015 21:23 jonich0n wrote: just one thing. can someone please explain what is the point of having a unit like the Void Ray in this game?
Right now, killing overlords, defending early roach attacks and doing 1-base all-ins against Terran.
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
pylon. overcharge. liberators are much better than attacking pylons
having attacking pylons doesn't suddenly make a super mobile zoning unit a good idea though
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
Uh... Terrain affects Liberators a lot... Practicing a lot on a map with Liberators will make you much better with them on that map.
On December 15 2015 21:23 jonich0n wrote: just one thing. can someone please explain what is the point of having a unit like the Void Ray in this game?
It is actually quite commonly used though. Turtling with Void Ray Immortal into Carrier is viable in high-level PvP, they're good for PvP all-ins, they provide safety vs Zerg and let you clear Overlords after opening Oracle, and a fair number of times I've seen 1 made vs Terran to snipe Liberators in pesky spots because they kill them incredible quickly with their ability. Even if a unit is rarely used I don't think it does any harm staying in the game, it'll just make situations where that unit is used more special.
honestly it [Void Ray] just feels like it's a boring pointless unit that should be removed. there is just too much lame early-mid-game Protoss clutter right now it feels like. I just feel Protoss should be significantly tweaked for competitive play going forward...
okay I'll stop here, probably not the best thread to voice this kind of stuff but seriously, I'm a bit confused by the idea behind this race.
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
Uh... Terrain affects Liberators a lot... Practicing a lot on a map with Liberators will make you much better with them on that map.
A lot? Like it does tanks? It's a flying unit, that's what I mean with don't caring about terrain (obviously, come on)
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
Uh... Terrain affects Liberators a lot... Practicing a lot on a map with Liberators will make you much better with them on that map.
A lot? Like it does tanks? It's a flying unit, that's what I mean with don't caring about terrain (obviously, come on)
It's a flying unit yet terrain is still very very important to how the unit is used. You can dislike the unit for whatever reason but it's a very positional unit.
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
A unit that has to be stationary to attack, and takes time switching in and out of forms during which it cannot attack at all, cannot be "super mobile" by definition.
Unless you have some category like "super duper mobile with a cherry on top" for Tempests and Disruptors (they might be ground, but Warp Prisms can move them around from 6 range away, even while they're in stationary mode, and they have no siege up time/vulnerability).
Liberators are one of the better designed new units in SC2. They might be too strong in some contexts, but that's a separate issue.
...curious to see that only 3 maps out of 5 were played... no Lerilak Crest and no Ruins of Seras... these maps maybe would allow longer games but no-one like them it seems...
On December 15 2015 21:10 Penev wrote: liberators..
Good unit when used to their best
It's obviously a good unit but it isn't a good unit
It's a great unit!
a super mobile zoning unit
not good
It's mobile, it's not super mobile. Tempest/Disruptor >>> Liberator >> Lurker/HotS Siege Tank
It's super mobile because of being fast AND it doesn't care about terrain. I'm not balance whining I'm just disappointed Blizz went for a unit like that.
A unit that has to be stationary to attack, and takes time switching in and out of forms during which it cannot attack at all, cannot be "super mobile" by definition.
Unless you have some category like "super duper mobile with a cherry on top" for Tempests and Disruptors (they might be ground, but Warp Prisms can move them around from 6 range away, even while they're in stationary mode, and they have no siege up time/vulnerability).
Of all the new units and mechanics I think all of them can be nerfed/ buffed adequately but I'm very worried about the liberator in that regard. Besides it ensures playstyles I'd rather see won't happen and it overlaps with other units. And it attacks air. It's a swiss army knife unit.
On December 15 2015 21:32 CynicalDeath wrote: ...curious to see that only 3 maps out of 5 were played... no Lerilak Crest and no Ruins of Seras... these maps maybe would allow longer games but no-one like them it seems...
Well, 2 series were ZvZ where random spawns can completely fuck you over. Then there was a TvP, where Lerilak and Ruins are just silly with warp prisms and blink stalkers (not to mention the huge naturals with lots of space for adepts). And then there was a TvZ where Sorry wanted to cheese every game
On December 15 2015 21:32 CynicalDeath wrote: ...curious to see that only 3 maps out of 5 were played... no Lerilak Crest and no Ruins of Seras... these maps maybe would allow longer games but no-one like them it seems...
Well, 2 series were ZvZ where random spawns can completely fuck you over. Then there was a TvP, where Lerilak and Ruins are just silly with warp prisms and blink stalkers (not to mention the huge naturals with lots of space for adepts). And then there was a TvZ where Sorry wanted to cheese every game
seriously that TY vs herO series was so disappointing I can't even. so bad.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
This is an interesting point, especially re: Proleague, which is still Bo5 format.
I can't imagine that they'll run fewer ads, so that just means there's going to be an even higher ratio of downtime to game time.
On December 15 2015 21:12 Rehio wrote: I'm kind of wondering about the pace of games, now.
I know it's a bit too soon to start making changes like this, but I wonder if Best of Fives would be better as a standard match, now?
I'm not used to things ending this early, and I like the longer broadcasts. And heck, the longer a series is the more often the more skilled player will win, right?
Dunno, just wonder if the faster pace of LotV means things should be extended a bit outside of the game.
This is an interesting point, especially re: Proleague, which is still Bo5 format.
I can't imagine that they'll run fewer ads, so that just means there's going to be an even higher ratio of downtime to game time.
Well, they haven't confirmed that yet!
But this day of GSL had 4 bo3 series and took almost 3 hours. That's actually not really that much shorter than in HotS I think. And Life vs DRG was a really short series.
I just honestly want to see slightly longer games, more map-control focused strategies... more like a chess match, more movement across the maps... fewer deathballs, less static turtling. less all-in gimmicky timing BS. maybe it's just me.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
herO took the Protoss book of bullshit and beat TY to death with it, even when it seemed like TY's defense was really good, it turned out that it wasn't. The level of play was very high from both players which makes herO's win much more palatable, but the MU seems sketchy as hell.
g1 was literally "failed proxy oracle (dead stargate) into failed msc pressure (dead msc) into adept pressure into still having a superior economy somehow despite only killing 4 SCVs into oracle harass into disruptor warp prism harass."
TY was able to stabilize in G2 and the game went on, so that was the best one. Sorry vs Symbol was pretty wild as well.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
herO took the Protoss book of bullshit and beat TY to death with it, even when it seemed like TY's defense was really good, it turned out that it wasn't. The level of play was very high from both players which makes herO's win much more palatable, but the MU seems sketchy as hell.
g1 was literally "failed proxy oracle into failed msc pressure into adept pressure into still having a superior economy somehow despite only killing 4 SCVs into oracle harass into disruptor warp prism harass."
seriously Game 1 was just obnoxious to watch. that's not what top-level RTS should be.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
I don't recall him floating that much money before TY unpowered all his gateways.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
I don't recall him floating that much money before TY unpowered all his gateways.
I might have missed something, just trying to understand the matchup and what went wrong on that map for herO.
edit: it really felt like herO just kinda threw that game, guess I'll just rewatch.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
I get that. It just felt like herO had a clear super long timing window to aggress and beat down on TY to take the map but he just sat back.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
I don't recall him floating that much money before TY unpowered all his gateways.
I might have missed something, just trying to understand the matchup and what went wrong on that map for herO.
edit: it really felt like herO just kinda threw that game, guess I'll just rewatch.
He's a Protoss, you always float minerals to warp in either for harass or for defense. Plus he was trying to build up a templar count which means he has a lot of minerals left over naturally.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
I get that. It just felt like herO had a clear super long timing window to aggress and beat down on TY to take the map but he just sat back.
He'd have to run all his units into mines and liberators. That's super inefficient.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
I get that. It just felt like herO had a clear super long timing window to aggress and beat down on TY to take the map but he just sat back.
clearly still used to his HOTS PvT style where comfortably macro's and beat the shit out of his opponents, not a good translation into Legacy though
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
I don't recall him floating that much money before TY unpowered all his gateways.
I might have missed something, just trying to understand the matchup and what went wrong on that map for herO.
edit: it really felt like herO just kinda threw that game, guess I'll just rewatch.
He's a Protoss, you always float minerals to warp in either for harass or for defense. Plus he was trying to build up a templar count which means he has a lot of minerals left over naturally.
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
I get that. It just felt like herO had a clear super long timing window to aggress and beat down on TY to take the map but he just sat back.
He'd have to run all his units into mines and liberators. That's super inefficient.
yeah I just rewatched that map. TY made a nice play to take out the greedy fast 4th from herO, and outmaneuvered the less mobile Protoss army on that big map...
and yes, TY looks to have been damn hard to break on 3 bases there with those Libs and Widow Mines, on that specific map.
my question is, is it basically impossible for a maxed 200/200 Protoss army with a big bank to re-supply to break a turtling 3-base Terran with Liberators?
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
I don't recall him floating that much money before TY unpowered all his gateways.
I might have missed something, just trying to understand the matchup and what went wrong on that map for herO.
edit: it really felt like herO just kinda threw that game, guess I'll just rewatch.
He's a Protoss, you always float minerals to warp in either for harass or for defense. Plus he was trying to build up a templar count which means he has a lot of minerals left over naturally.
On December 15 2015 22:00 jonich0n wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:57 ZAiNs wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:52 jonich0n wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:49 ZAiNs wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:49 jonich0n wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:46 Elentos wrote:
On December 15 2015 21:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: Were the game any good?
TY vs herO was pretty high level, "good" I guess depends on what you want to see
herO played "high level" in Game 2? really? you think so?
herO always plays high-level.
floating 3k minerals, and 1k gas in Game 2 when he had a bit of an advantage on TY? I don't know, from what I saw, I saw herO throwing away a huge advantage in mid-game in Map 2.
1k gas bank isn't much for Protoss because of how warp-ins work. You warp-in 10 Stalkers and 2 Templar and thats 800 gas right there. At high-levels a player is rarely going to throw the game on their own without great play by their opponent.
I get that. It just felt like herO had a clear super long timing window to aggress and beat down on TY to take the map but he just sat back.
He'd have to run all his units into mines and liberators. That's super inefficient.
yeah I just rewatched that map. TY made a nice play to take out the greedy fast 4th from herO, and outmaneuvered the less mobile Protoss army on that big map...
and yes, TY looks to have been damn hard to break on 3 bases there with those Libs and Widow Mines, on that specific map.
my question is, is it basically impossible for a maxed 200/200 Protoss army with a big bank to re-supply to break a turtling 3-base Terran with Liberators?
I'm guessing Protoss would need Tempest/Carriers to beat such turtling now? herO was going for tempest composition before he got killed so there's that.
On December 15 2015 22:40 lastride wrote: Poor TY lol gotta see the vods when I get home. I suspect some toss shenanigans here
Ehh you also saw some Terran shenanigans where 2 liberators completely shut down 2 bases for 3 minutes because they outrange every ground unit toss has, and where Toss seems to be unable to ever break a defensive setup with liberators =D
On December 15 2015 22:40 lastride wrote: Poor TY lol gotta see the vods when I get home. I suspect some toss shenanigans here
Ehh you also saw some Terran shenanigans where 2 liberators completely shut down 2 bases for 3 minutes because they outrange every ground unit toss has, and where Toss seems to be unable to ever break a defensive setup with liberators =D
There were way more Protoss shenanigans than Terran shenanigans though. So he's right.
Also that with the mining bases is kinda herO's mistake. He should have scouted for a fusion core at some point or at least set up for the air switch faster.
On December 16 2015 01:46 The_Templar wrote: What happened in Sorry/Symbol?
G1: Proxy 2-rax reaper vs proxy hatch, reapers are in Symbol's main earlier and he makes units to defend making his all-in weaker. He still gets into Sorry's main (no depot raise) but then it turns out Terran buildings can fly.
G2: Proxy 2-rax reaper, gets defended reasonably well, macro game with ling/ravager/infestor into ultra for Symbol. Sorry kills the 4th before ultras are out and the 3rd before Chitinous Plating finishes. Symbol gets desperate to protect his new base on the other side of the map and fights inside of liberation zones.
Proxy reapers (or just reapers) seem ridiculously strong anyway vs Zerg, Sorry should keep doing it, 2nd game he came out of that with an econ advantage afaik.
On December 16 2015 03:09 royalroadweed wrote: Outside of that series with taeja I don't think I've seen seen a Sorry game where he didn't proxy reapers.
And I'm pretty sure he did proxy marauder several times against TaeJa
Seen many Zergs try to play with Ling/Ravager/Infestor/Ultra vs Terran and melee ups instead of ranged, they always seem to have less success than roach/ravager/inf. Lings still kinda suck, especially without Baneling support. The argument I hear is that 'it's more mobile' and 'just wait until you get ultras out' but in general all they end up doing is defend and sit on their side of the map. Defensively it seems weak, harder to play, not very rewarding and bad. Very excited for TRUE vs Forte today, and hoping for some disgusting ravager/infestor styles OR if the other ZvT styles show up, hopefully something that actually looks strong and successful...!
On December 16 2015 14:14 Liquid`Snute wrote: Seen many Zergs try to play with Ling/Ravager/Infestor/Ultra vs Terran and melee ups instead of ranged, they always seem to have less success than roach/ravager/inf. Lings still kinda suck, especially without Baneling support. The argument I hear is that 'it's more mobile' and 'just wait until you get ultras out' but in general all they end up doing is defend and sit on their side of the map. Defensively it seems weak, harder to play, not very rewarding and bad. Very excited for TRUE vs Forte today, and hoping for some disgusting ravager/infestor styles OR if the other ZvT styles show up, hopefully something that actually looks strong and successful...!
Find any styles that look strong and successful? I just saw a bunch of muta ling bane...
EPT
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Solar vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2747.jpg)
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TY vs 
herO![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3214.jpg)
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pretty sure they will be
Protoss
Zerg
Terran 
Either tl changes it or i won't even give a damn ![[image loading]](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1435015!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/dodgers-marlins-baseball.jpg)
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