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On April 10 2015 21:49 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:47 lohdon wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:On April 10 2015 21:10 Musicus wrote:
Damn TB knows how to bait on twitter, sc2 pros getting mad.
And Flash is dead on this map I guess :/. well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. I didn't look at the viewership numbers but I am pretty sure they are at least similar to the Korean Leagues so it's not Welfare it's what a considerable amount of viewers want to watch. Stop being so salty about signing mediocre Korean players that can't make it in Korean leagues. Viewership numbers justify, what? Exactly? Justin Bieber sells a lot of albums too y'know. Oh and shut the fuck up. People who invest nothing in the scene have nothing of interest to say on this topic, that's clear.
Then why do you listen?
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On April 10 2015 21:52 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:48 Exstasy wrote:On April 10 2015 21:38 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:35 Exstasy wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 stargunner wrote:On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote:
Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval underrated post. anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play. If he only did because Code S was on the line and was punishing timings then I'd agree but this is Flash, he does in EVERY game. Not just the important ones I'm not saying it's just the important ones, its a response to that play style. He pushes at around 8 minutes to see if he can get something done (see game 3). If the protoss decides to sit and mass 5 colossi well then he will just get bio vikings and hit that 150 supp timing with pulled boys. I'd like to see a game contradicting this, I haven't seen flash do this against a different protoss style. Playstyle has nothing to do with Flash pulling the boys against Protoss. That's just so expected it's almost a meme now.
Well then please point me to some vods, I don't remember any that weren't a response to that p style.
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Hey! Nice job Flash, glad to see you in Code S again!
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On April 10 2015 21:52 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:48 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in. But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped. If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment.
It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
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On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean  Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year  . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final  .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
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On April 10 2015 21:52 fruity. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:47 XiaoJoyce- wrote:Ahh . . . hahaha the 3-0 Super Own Flash Prediction ~ But , ah....scare the hell out of me . Flash game is so worrying. I keep pray for Opponent to mess up for Flash to win . Yeah I know what you mean! Super kinda screwed up blinking his stalkers in the last game. As a fan of all things Terran, I'm OK with that. Sad the kid hasn't got a team though, hope he lands on his feet.
I mean, he just left Invasion recently (today if the article is to be believed) so he could get into the Proleague environment, similar to what DRG said. They'll end up on a team sooner or later.
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TB just getting his blood pressure and testosterone rising so he can cast Shoutcraft. Everyone else relax
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On April 10 2015 21:57 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:52 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:48 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:
[quote]
well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in. But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped. If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season. Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment. It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
What did you think about the 2012 WCS formula?
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On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:
[quote]
well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
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On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin). Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
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On April 10 2015 21:57 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:52 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:48 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote:
[quote]
well, TB did act dumb here If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure. They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch? Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in. But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped. If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season. Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment. It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
Pretty sure StarDust will join the club soon. RIP foreign hopes and dreams of winning WCS.
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On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin). Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
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On April 10 2015 22:02 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:57 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:52 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:48 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in. But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped. If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season. Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment. It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have. Pretty sure StarDust will join the club soon. RIP foreign hopes and dreams of winning WCS.
Has will be our hope and will lead us out ot these dark times. Because he's Has it'll be hilarious too.
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On April 10 2015 22:03 lohdon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:
[quote]
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin). Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match. I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Oh look, more bullshit from someone who doesn't matter at all.
My opinion is relevant because it's my team that just got fucked by GSLs incompetence. If ANYONE has the right to vent right now, it's me.
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On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too. Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin). Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I was too busy watching Innov v Byul, did Impact only prepare SW styles (assuming mech) on every map?
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On April 10 2015 21:58 Deathstar wrote:TB just getting his blood pressure and testosterone rising so he can cast Shoutcraft. Everyone else relax
Watching the vod from YoeFW vs Prime just now .
Thanks for the fast YT upload btw TB!
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On April 10 2015 22:02 Poopfeast 024 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:41 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote:On April 10 2015 21:28 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote:
[quote]
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it. "foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare. But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out. If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though. I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock. For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind). They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final . polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin). Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match. that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format. my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
If Bunny gets to 20 minutes vs Hydra it's a free win! No seriously, you're not giving Bunny enough credit. Polt was in a really bad TvZ slump in the beginning of this year, he needed like 3 qualifiers to get into WCS Challenger because he kept losing to Zergs (e.g. Kane). Bunny was consistently in really good shape in TvZ throughout the year. He should have had a decent chance.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
My day in a nutshell
Dark, GuMiho, Dear and Flash winning is good.
INnoVation losing and getting banned sucks major balls.
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On April 10 2015 22:08 GumBa wrote:
My day in a nutshell
Dark, GuMiho, Dear and Flash winning is good.
INnoVation losing and getting banned sucks major balls.
why did you get banned?
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EPT
