Dark vs Ryung Game 1 Dark vs Ryung Game 2 Dark vs Ryung Game 3 Dark vs Ryung Game 4 Dark vs Ryung Game 5 GuMiho vs Impact Game 1 GuMiho vs Impact Game 2 GuMiho vs Impact Game 3 GuMiho vs Impact Game 4 GuMiho vs Impact Game 5 Super vs Flash Game 1 Super vs Flash Game 2 Super vs Flash Game 3 Super vs Flash Game 4 Super vs Flash Game 5
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
67%
★★★ - Good game (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 2
★★★ - Good game (2)
67%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 3
★★★ - Good game (2)
67%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 4
★★★ - Good game (1)
50%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 5
★★★ - Good game (1)
25%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 2
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
67%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 3
★★★ - Good game (1)
50%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 4
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
50%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 5
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
100%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
1 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
57%
★★★ - Good game (2)
29%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
14%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 2
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (5)
63%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
25%
★★★ - Good game (1)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 3
★★★ - Good game (8)
73%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
9%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
9%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 4
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
13%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 5
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★ - Good game (2)
29%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Flash needs a bit of luck for once. His series vs trap and leenock were such a coinflip. I am tired of watching him getting elimated in tour after tour like that
On April 09 2015 22:39 lastride wrote: Flash needs a bit of luck for once. His series vs trap and leenock were such a coinflip. I am tired of watching him getting elimated in tour after tour like that
His series against Leenock wasn't as much a coinflip as it was Flash throwing away things for no reason. Nothing is safe! Hellions, hellbats, banshees, OCs... everything must go!
Ryung vs Darkin in GSL Code A Season 2 round of 48. Ryung is at 0.33% Blizzcon Chances. 33.61% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.81%. 66.39% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.08%. Dark is at 36.02% Blizzcon Chances. 66.39% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 44.77%. 33.61% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 18.74%.
GuMiho vs Impactin in GSL Code A Season 2 round of 48. GuMiho is at 11.22% Blizzcon Chances. 55.23% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 16.58%. 44.77% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 4.6%. Impact is at 0.43% Blizzcon Chances. 44.77% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.87%. 55.23% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.08%.
Flash vs Superin in GSL Code A Season 2 round of 48. Flash is at 2.7% Blizzcon Chances. 53.27% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 4.42%. 46.73% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.74%. Super is at 7.15% Blizzcon Chances. 46.73% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 12.01%. 53.27% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 2.88%.
Dark has a 66.39% chance to win ----going from 36.02% to 44.77% if they get 1st, or 18.74% if they don't. FanTaSy has a 64.95% chance to win ----going from 25.25% to 32.49% if they get 1st, or 11.84% if they don't. Trust has a 64.34% chance to win ----going from 0.79% to 1.15% if they get 1st, or 0.14% if they don't. Soulkey has a 64.09% chance to win ----going from 52.7% to 60.28% if they get 1st, or 39.18% if they don't. Curious has a 59.32% chance to win ----going from 0.65% to 1.02% if they get 1st, or 0.11% if they don't. + Show Spoiler [More Winning Chances] +
MarineKing has a 55.42% chance to win ----going from 2.59% to 4.05% if they get 1st, or 0.78% if they don't. GuMiho has a 55.23% chance to win ----going from 11.22% to 16.58% if they get 1st, or 4.6% if they don't. Flash has a 53.27% chance to win ----going from 2.7% to 4.42% if they get 1st, or 0.74% if they don't. Terminator has a 50.77% chance to win ----going from 7.35% to 11.8% if they get 1st, or 2.77% if they don't. HerO has a 49.23% chance to win ----going from 0.26% to 0.49% if they get 1st, or 0.04% if they don't. Super has a 46.73% chance to win ----going from 7.15% to 12.01% if they get 1st, or 2.88% if they don't. Impact has a 44.77% chance to win ----going from 0.43% to 0.87% if they get 1st, or 0.08% if they don't. Patience has a 44.58% chance to win ----going from 0.92% to 1.77% if they get 1st, or 0.23% if they don't. BrAvO has a 40.68% chance to win ----going from 0.06% to 0.13% if they get 1st, or 0.01% if they don't. Creator has a 35.91% chance to win ----going from 0.52% to 1.23% if they get 1st, or 0.13% if they don't. MC has a 35.66% chance to win ----going from 0.64% to 1.49% if they get 1st, or 0.17% if they don't. Pigbaby has a 35.05% chance to win ----going from 0.16% to 0.38% if they get 1st, or 0.03% if they don't. Ryung has a 33.61% chance to win ----going from 0.33% to 0.81% if they get 1st, or 0.08% if they don't.
PartinG has a 13.14% chance to win ----going from 99.73% to 100% if they get 1st, or 100% if they get 2nd. Life has a 9.62% chance to win ----going from 100% to 100% if they get 1st, or 100% if they get 2nd. herO has a 8.52% chance to win ----going from 99.99% to 100% if they get 1st, or 100% if they get 2nd. Rain has a 6.83% chance to win ----going from 54.77% to 99.99% if they get 1st, or 93.81% if they get 2nd. Maru has a 6.48% chance to win ----going from 100% to 100% if they get 1st, or 100% if they get 2nd. + Show Spoiler [More Winning Chances] +
INnoVation has a 6.2% chance to win ----going from 69.23% to 99.99% if they get 1st, or 96.45% if they get 2nd. Rogue has a 4.47% chance to win ----going from 47.23% to 99.99% if they get 1st, or 93.29% if they get 2nd. sOs has a 3.9% chance to win ----going from 37.55% to 98.33% if they get 1st, or 75.94% if they get 2nd. Bbyong has a 3.73% chance to win ----going from 25.9% to 97.75% if they get 1st, or 67.52% if they get 2nd. Solar has a 3.31% chance to win ----going from 16.12% to 90.11% if they get 1st, or 48.69% if they get 2nd. Dark has a 3.19% chance to win ----going from 36.02% to 99.97% if they get 1st, or 90.31% if they get 2nd. soO has a 3.02% chance to win ----going from 23.62% to 86.63% if they get 1st, or 55.01% if they get 2nd. TY has a 2.69% chance to win ----going from 24.82% to 99.26% if they get 1st, or 72.57% if they get 2nd. MMA has a 2.55% chance to win ----going from 20.24% to 97.9% if they get 1st, or 64.33% if they get 2nd. Bomber has a 2.32% chance to win ----going from 10.34% to 82.66% if they get 1st, or 38.68% if they get 2nd. FanTaSy has a 2.22% chance to win ----going from 25.25% to 99.74% if they get 1st, or 81.07% if they get 2nd. Dream has a 2.03% chance to win ----going from 86.67% to 100% if they get 1st, or 99.98% if they get 2nd. ByuL has a 1.84% chance to win ----going from 8.69% to 64.56% if they get 1st, or 28.63% if they get 2nd. Sacsri has a 1.78% chance to win ----going from 4.36% to 59.36% if they get 1st, or 3.36% if they don't. Soulkey has a 1.74% chance to win ----going from 52.7% to 99.99% if they get 1st, or 96.92% if they get 2nd. GuMiho has a 1.46% chance to win ----going from 11.22% to 93.61% if they get 1st, or 53.77% if they get 2nd. YoDa has a 1.32% chance to win ----going from 4.31% to 66.85% if they get 1st, or 3.47% if they don't. Flash has a 1.06% chance to win ----going from 2.7% to 55.21% if they get 1st, or 2.14% if they don't. Terminator has a 0.71% chance to win ----going from 7.35% to 97.45% if they get 1st, or 55.76% if they get 2nd. Symbol has a 0.67% chance to win ----going from 1.25% to 47.58% if they get 1st, or 0.94% if they don't. Super has a 0.65% chance to win ----going from 7.15% to 97.54% if they get 1st, or 56.26% if they get 2nd. RagnaroK has a 0.55% chance to win ----going from 0.66% to 33.48% if they get 1st, or 0.47% if they don't. MyuNgSiK has a 0.52% chance to win ----going from 1.62% to 63.47% if they get 1st, or 1.3% if they don't. Trust has a 0.52% chance to win ----going from 0.79% to 38.41% if they get 1st, or 0.6% if they don't. Sorry has a 0.37% chance to win ----going from 0.47% to 32.3% if they get 1st, or 0.36% if they don't. Curious has a 0.35% chance to win ----going from 0.65% to 43.92% if they get 1st, or 0.49% if they don't. Patience has a 0.34% chance to win ----going from 0.92% to 54.89% if they get 1st, or 0.73% if they don't. MarineKing has a 0.33% chance to win ----going from 2.59% to 85.44% if they get 1st, or 2.32% if they don't. Impact has a 0.31% chance to win ----going from 0.43% to 35.89% if they get 1st, or 0.32% if they don't. Creator has a 0.28% chance to win ----going from 0.52% to 41.47% if they get 1st, or 0.41% if they don't. MC has a 0.23% chance to win ----going from 0.64% to 55.71% if they get 1st, or 0.51% if they don't. HerO has a 0.21% chance to win ----going from 0.26% to 31.2% if they get 1st, or 0.2% if they don't.
Really hope Ryung can pull off some sort of TvZ miracle and make it in with all the other old faces. Seems highly unlikely though, Ryung only ever seemed good in TvZ back in 2012.
Really hope Ryung can pull off some sort of TvZ miracle and make it in with all the other old faces. Seems highly unlikely though, Ryung only ever seemed good in TvZ back in 2012.
Well I mean Bomber qualified with 2011 builds, Ryung could bring back 2012 as well
Really hope Ryung can pull off some sort of TvZ miracle and make it in with all the other old faces. Seems highly unlikely though, Ryung only ever seemed good in TvZ back in 2012.
Well I mean Bomber qualified with 2011 builds, Ryung could bring back 2012 as well
Dark > Ryung i'd be shocked by an upset GuMiho > Impact with slight advantage for GuMiho imo Super > Flash as much as i hate to say it Flash's decision making when he is ahead is extremely poor. i expect to see some stellar throws by Flash tonight
Wow, this really sucks for Impact. Playing vs Gumigod without what it's likely to be the counter he has practiced :s Almost should postpone the matches imo.
I don't know Kev, this could be bad for both sides, because what is typical "robot" player reaction to SH? And what they do now? I could imagine pro players underestimation of the threat or that they don't know about the changes at all. In SSL they are playing 2 PvPs and I can imagine that some player will autobuild Tempests against colossi power and he will be badly surprised ,-)
I don't know Kev, this could be bad for both sides, because what is typical "robot" player reaction to SH? And what they do now? I could imagine pro players underestimation of the threat or that they don't know about the changes at all. In SSL they are playing 2 PvPs and I can imagine that some player will autobuild Tempests against colossi power and he will be badly surprised ,-)
Even so, unless you're Snute or Firecake, SH were always a reaction to mech, not bio, so why not just play bio and avoid the issue? :S
On April 10 2015 15:09 DJHelium wrote: Wow, this really sucks for Impact. Playing vs Gumigod without what it's likely to be the counter he has practiced :s Almost should postpone the matches imo.
If he wins vs Gumi in macro games he will just royal road.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
67%
★★★ - Good game (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
what happened to free medium quality for season 2? dont mean to be flogging a dead horse or anything but zvt is kinda unwatchable on anything less than medium...
On April 10 2015 18:47 Enigmasc wrote: what happened to free medium quality for season 2? dont mean to be flogging a dead horse or anything but zvt is kinda unwatchable on anything less than medium...
Ignore what twitch says quality is higher than low.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
People are attempting to determine how this patch affects professional play after watching 2 games, where none of the changed units were used, so soon after the patch that it isn't even live on all servers.
On April 10 2015 19:09 Circumstance wrote: People are attempting to determine how this patch affects professional play after watching 2 games, where none of the changed units were used, so soon after the patch that it isn't even live on all servers.
I'm glad all our buddies on TL are so knowledgable at sc2.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 4
★★★ - Good game (1)
50%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Dark vs Ryung Game 5
★★★ - Good game (1)
25%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Dark vs Ryung Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Anyone else unable to watch the twitch stream? Video constantly fails to load... have updated flash player... weirdly, Im also able to watch other channels on twitch, just not gsl...
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
Happy to see the Gumigod bring bio, he's good with any style! In WoL, he had one of the absolute best late game bio TvZ imo. Often using nukes to great effect.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
25%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Hmm, how big a baneling is? Compared to a marine? The same size, alittle smaller/biggeR? So I can imagine the fear in the eyes of units when banelings are rolling into them :>
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
Afaik the players were under the assumption that today was going to be played on last patch.
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
But they were supposed to play on old patch... sooo
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
And why would pro players waste valuable time in playing test maps whose changes may or may not be implemented?
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
And why would pro players waste valuable time in playing test maps whose changes may or may not be implemented?
oh please, blizzard said like 5times during the testphase of the map: "we like it. This will go through like that."
Pretty stupid though if the players didn't know they'd be playing on this patch. Psione's twitter confusion this week did probably not help.
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
And why would pro players waste valuable time in playing test maps whose changes may or may not be implemented?
oh please, blizzard said like 5times during the testphase of the map: "we like it. This will go through like that."
On April 10 2015 19:35 Big J wrote: This is bullshit! All of it!
Edit: Wut? Gumiho going bio. Fuck this shit. Was so looking forward to seeing the new swarm host vs mech today and now the Terrans all just roll over with marines.
Why would pro players ever experiment live a patch in a high-stake match with zero practice behind it?
The map was there for 2months.
And why would pro players waste valuable time in playing test maps whose changes may or may not be implemented?
oh please, blizzard said like 5times during the testphase of the map: "we like it. This will go through like that."
Pretty stupid though if the players didn't know they'd be playing on this patch. Psione's twitter confusion this week did probably not help.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
67%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
33%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
3 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
The casters seriously miscalled that game then. Yes Gumiho's bank was extremely large, but despite the miss-macro, they were dead even on supply at the time and he had a full upgrade lead and then some (finishing the game when 3-3 hit vs 1-1). Once he used up his resources he was always going to roll over Impact.
I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
GuMiho's mech style wasn't really changed by the patch. I think he prepared bio for this series, otherwise he would've mech'd regardless of patch change
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
This is entirely unacceptable, Blizzard messing up badly here...
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
I agree. If they weren't able to play on last patch, they should've just rescheduled today's matches.
Gumiho playing bio this series so far isn't relevant. The preparation going in is heavily affected by this patch.
And I'm saying this as a Gumigod fan. It's a big advantage for him imo.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
I don't think they had the possibility to switch it, otherwise they would. I personally don't understand why Blizzard didn't wait until weekend...
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
I agree. If they weren't able to play on last patch, they should've just rescheduled today's matches.
Gumiho playing bio this series so far isn't relevant. The preparation going in is heavily affected by this patch.
And I'm saying this as a Gumigod fan. It's a big advantage for him imo.
A Korean league rescheduling things on the spot. Lol :D
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant. His build on game 1 looked dumb cause he was trying to get a cheap shot in vs mech to avoid the late game.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
I don't think they had the possibility to switch it, otherwise they would. I personally don't understand why Blizzard didn't wait until weekend...
According to Olivia, they had custom maps prepared but it didn't work.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
No it's not irrelevant. Impact has been throwing out all sorts of builds now that hit before Mech, which could obviously be because he has no clue how to play lategame with the change. Gumiho going bio might as well also be a reaction to scouting Impacts early 2base plays, because bio is fucking strong against roaches.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant. His build on game 1 looked dumb cause he was trying to get a cheap shot in vs mech to avoid the late game.
I was watching SSL for the first half of game 1 and had it muted for even longer. My bad for sure. Apologies.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant. His build on game 1 looked dumb cause he was trying to get a cheap shot in vs mech to avoid the late game.
I was watching SSL for the first half of game 1 and had it muted for even longer. My bad for sure. Apologies.
Listen to GSL watch SSL is my method. avoids shitty quality too.
That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 4
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
50%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
50%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
2 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: GuMiho vs Impact Game 5
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
100%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
1 total votes
Your vote: GuMiho vs Impact Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
Apparantly GSL said the game would be played on prepatch balance. Then they didn't.
There is something they could have done, which is just stick to their word.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
I'm exclusively blaming Blizzard. GOM seems to have prepared a custom map, which was fucked over by the patch as well. And "fuck this really sucks and move on" doesn't really work if a player gets such a disadvantage as Impact just got.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
Apparantly GSL said the game would be played on prepatch balance. Then they didn't.
There is something they could have done, which is just stick to their word.
GOM wanted the game to be played on prepatch balance - but if Blizzard's patch fucks up the custom map, they can't do much...
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
GSL could've just said "we will play the matches on whatever patch is the current one" and the players could prepare accordingly.
GSL trying to fix the situation and failing shouldn't affect the players. Instead they should take responsibility and reschedule the matches for another day, giving players proper time to prepare.
On April 10 2015 20:30 Musicus wrote: Hm very disapponted in GSL again. Get your shit together.
Also apologies to DJHelium for some uninformed remarks on twitter .
None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
Apparantly GSL said the game would be played on prepatch balance. Then they didn't.
There is something they could have done, which is just stick to their word.
On April 10 2015 20:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm fucking furious. Impact practiced specific styles against Gumiho, most of them involving (pre-patch) Swarmhosts due to his tendency to go mech and GSL pulled a bait and switch on us at the last minute with no warning. This is absolute bullshit. We were told Code A would be played on the pre-patch version, our guys had no time to practice for this.
Yeah, it's a sucky situation. At least Gumi has been going bio, rendering the vs. mech part of the prep irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant. His build on game 1 looked dumb cause he was trying to get a cheap shot in vs mech to avoid the late game.
I was watching SSL for the first half of game 1 and had it muted for even longer. My bad for sure. Apologies.
Listen to GSL watch SSL is my method. avoids shitty quality too.
I've been watching the game I think is more interesting and listening to the other, but I might have to adopt your strat. Especially since I like Moonless better than Wolfdes.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
I'm exclusively blaming Blizzard. GOM seems to have prepared a custom map, which was fucked over by the patch as well. And "fuck this really sucks and move on" doesn't really work if a player gets such a disadvantage as Impact just got.
That's entirely fair, but.. what can GOM or Blizzard do? I suppose GOM could make a custom map with the help of Blizzard and redo the series, but that punishes GuMiho (since he's already shown his gameplan) for something that was out of his control.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
Apparantly GSL said the game would be played on prepatch balance. Then they didn't.
There is something they could have done, which is just stick to their word.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
Apparantly GSL said the game would be played on prepatch balance. Then they didn't.
There is something they could have done, which is just stick to their word.
it takes at most one hour to go to the editor and remake the old swarm host and adjust the 3other values (blinding cloud, raven, tempest). For a good mapper, probably 10mins.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Or they need to step up their game, one of the 2.
Lets try throwing foreigners into the shark pit that is Korean eSports and see if even one of them makes it past the qualifier stage.
I somehow doubt it. GSL is pure fucking luck. Either you get scrub-mcScrub in Code A and get a free ride to Code S or you get rekt by someone like Dark who is one of the best players in the world. And that's without even taking into account GSL pulling the shit they did today.
On April 10 2015 20:27 Swisslink wrote: That's just stupid now. Impact would have to completely adapt to the new patch without any preparation. Can't even blame Impact for losing this. Implementing such a HUGE patch mid-season is just unacceptable, imo.
Well, it's a really hard situation that Blizzard put GSL in. I think we should be yelling at Blizzard more than GSL, if anything- not that I think there's anything that can be done anymore. So really we should just say 'fuck this really sucks' and move on. There's nothing to be done at this point :p
GSL could've just said "we will play the matches on whatever patch is the current one" and the players could prepare accordingly.
GSL trying to fix the situation and failing shouldn't affect the players. Instead they should take responsibility and reschedule the matches for another day, giving players proper time to prepare.
I doubt their schedule is that flexible.
It's more damning that prominents orgs have no way to know if a patch is going to break their custom maps, be that the fault of Blizzard or Gom.
On April 10 2015 20:34 Topdoller wrote: Great to see GuMiho kicking ass. Hes always worth a watch. Why is everyone getting bent out of shape over the patch, Is Impact a SH player normally?
Every Zerg is vs mech, there is no alternative. So he did mech blind counters vs bio twice and then died to mech the 3rd game.
On April 10 2015 20:34 Topdoller wrote: Great to see GuMiho kicking ass. Hes always worth a watch. Why is everyone getting bent out of shape over the patch, Is Impact a SH player normally?
IDK, but the proper reaction to GuMiho's mech laming used to be Swarmhost style.
On April 10 2015 20:34 Topdoller wrote: Great to see GuMiho kicking ass. Hes always worth a watch. Why is everyone getting bent out of shape over the patch, Is Impact a SH player normally?
TB commented earlier in this thread that Impact practiced old Swarm Host styles for Gumiho, because GOM said the match would be played on a custom map on the old patch version. Then they didn't.
On April 10 2015 20:34 Topdoller wrote: Great to see GuMiho kicking ass. Hes always worth a watch. Why is everyone getting bent out of shape over the patch, Is Impact a SH player normally?
Gumiho is normally a mech player. If Impact prepared for Gumiho on the previous patch, one would guess he played a lot of SH vs mech games.
This means he did some builds meant to counter mech. He also missed practice vs bio.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:34 Topdoller wrote: Great to see GuMiho kicking ass. Hes always worth a watch. Why is everyone getting bent out of shape over the patch, Is Impact a SH player normally?
Gumiho is normally a mech player. If Impact prepared for Gumiho on the previous patch, one would guess he played a lot of SH vs mech games.
This means he did some builds meant to counter mech. He also missed practice vs bio.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
I can understand TB being mad. He is more invested in Impact and Ryung than anyone here in their fav players. I get so mad when INno loses and I cant even imagine how mad I would be if I was the owner of the team etc
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:28 RHoudini wrote: Too many drones, too small an army.
Listen more than I watch GSL but I am 100% sure Gumi was even or ahead in income.
???? Impact had 85 to 90 drones. Mining gas from 9 or 10 extractors.
So even.
Don't make uninformed comments, you didn't even watch the game...
Some hellions do some damage, Gumiho goes mech and pushes across the map with Thor Hellbat banshee Impact barely blocks it with roach queen while countering with about 8 ish roaches, then get's vipers and counter attacks fails to do anything. THen they both build up a bit and poke a bit until gumi walks across the map and impact dies cause SH don't exist (and roaches are dead weight)
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
What the fuuuck. All I've been doing is watching this and suddenly my computer decides it wants to have some sort of adware install and make it almost impossible to watch twitch or use TL.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
On April 10 2015 20:28 RHoudini wrote: Too many drones, too small an army.
Listen more than I watch GSL but I am 100% sure Gumi was even or ahead in income.
???? Impact had 85 to 90 drones. Mining gas from 9 or 10 extractors.
So even.
Don't make uninformed comments, you didn't even watch the game...
Some hellions do some damage, Gumiho goes mech and pushes across the map with Thor Hellbat banshee Impact barely blocks it with roach queen while countering with about 8 ish roaches, then get's vipers and counter attacks fails to do anything. THen they both build up a bit and poke a bit until gumi walks across the map and impact dies cause SH don't exist (and roaches are dead weight)
Gumiho lost 25workers in the midgame to mutas and roaches. I'm not sure if he even reached 55 until the end again. I'm pretty sure that Impact was ahead in every single way, aside from composition.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
but yeah... patch fuck-up was dumb, and the korean scene is super strong yeah
Remind me the last time that Chinese players were considered "non-white westerners" o_o
Ok maybe we are misunderstanding each other.... I though you meant there were only "westerners' in WCS. Edit: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah now I understand, I'm dumb It was not that important anyway.... so no problems
By the way now that you are in here. Congrats and much love for your medical recovery!
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
but yeah... patch fuck-up was dumb, and the korean scene is super strong yeah
Remind me the last time that Chinese players were considered "non-white westerners" o_o
Ok maybe we are misunderstanding each other.... I though you meant there were only "westerners' in WCS. It was not that important anyway.... so no problems
By the way now that you are in here. Congrats and much love for your medical recovery!
No harm done.
If anything I'd like to see more American players kicked out of WCS by the Chinese. They have a lot of talent over there. America? Not so much.
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
but yeah... patch fuck-up was dumb, and the korean scene is super strong yeah
Remind me the last time that Chinese players were considered "non-white westerners" o_o
Ok maybe we are misunderstanding each other.... I though you meant there were only "westerners' in WCS. It was not that important anyway.... so no problems
By the way now that you are in here. Congrats and much love for your medical recovery!
No harm done.
If anything I'd like to see more American players kicked out of WCS by the Chinese. They have a lot of talent over there. America? Not so much.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
57%
★★★ - Good game (2)
29%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
14%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 1
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On April 10 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: None of this would be a problem if Blizzard stopped giving foreigners welfare and let the better players into the other leagues, but hey, gotta make sure the white guys get their due.
Don't do the white guys thing pls, it's offensive to the non white westerners, the Chinese players etc.
"it's offensive to the non white westerners" None of whom qualified for WCS so who cares?
but yeah... patch fuck-up was dumb, and the korean scene is super strong yeah
Remind me the last time that Chinese players were considered "non-white westerners" o_o
Ok maybe we are misunderstanding each other.... I though you meant there were only "westerners' in WCS. It was not that important anyway.... so no problems
By the way now that you are in here. Congrats and much love for your medical recovery!
No harm done.
If anything I'd like to see more American players kicked out of WCS by the Chinese. They have a lot of talent over there. America? Not so much.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
On April 10 2015 20:58 boxerfred wrote: Axiom not having a great day today
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Also, I would be happier if they stop talking about GoT, it annoys me(and also I haven't read it and don't plan to read it, the talking everywhere just killed the series for me(meaning books, I would read books earlier ))
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
True, Gumi is not on CJ anymore. If he were, he'd be S+ all day erryday. He's solid though, not surprised to see him do decently, especially TvZ. I remember him taking down SlayerS in that awful GSTL finals match where all my hopes and dreams died and I've never underestimated him since.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
I agree, Impact vs Gumi is a pretty even matchup.
TB, I watched the vods of clan wars this morning and it was so much fun. Hopefully both teams prepare harder for the maps next time, prime made so many mistakes. Keep em coming!
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it
Just ignore em TB. It's what happens when people you like lose and one gets a bit salty over it. It's like people expect that if your guy/team loses to go "oh great Idc lalala" that's not what reallife is like.
well cmon against how many of the code A players would Ryung actually win?2 out of 47? He is ,to say it in TB´s words, a scrubbymcscrub of Code A...Impact was a bit unlucky though
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
True, Gumi is not on CJ anymore. If he were, he'd be S+ all day erryday. He's solid though, not surprised to see him do decently, especially TvZ. I remember him taking down SlayerS in that awful GSTL finals match where all my hopes and dreams died and I've never underestimated him since.
GuMi got better or atleast more exposure since he left CJ. Would love GuMI to play PL but acutally come out.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it
Just ignore em TB. It's what happens when people you like lose and one gets a bit salty over it. It's like people expect that if your guy/team loses to go "oh great Idc lalala" that's not what reallife is like.
Hahah I wanted to reply to this - yeah, Gumba gets singled out too all the time - looks at username - oh wait :D
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
Why do you even bother replying to these LR <3s you, better luck next time
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
True, Gumi is not on CJ anymore. If he were, he'd be S+ all day erryday. He's solid though, not surprised to see him do decently, especially TvZ. I remember him taking down SlayerS in that awful GSTL finals match where all my hopes and dreams died and I've never underestimated him since.
GuMi got better or atleast more exposure since he left CJ. Would love GuMI to play PL but acutally come out.
Gumi is always a bit hit and miss... great strats and moves, and all his crazy games...I also still admire his Raven/Viking observer hunting squads :'(
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it
Just ignore em TB. It's what happens when people you like lose and one gets a bit salty over it. It's like people expect that if your guy/team loses to go "oh great Idc lalala" that's not what reallife is like.
Hahah I wanted to reply to this - yeah, Gumba gets singled out too all the time - looks at username - oh wait :D
I agree that Axiom guys got tough draws but I don't really agree that qualifying for Code S is mostly luck or something like that. It's well known that Code A in brutal in Korea. You will have to be in top shape to qualify no matter who you are up against.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
I guess it's just not Flash unless he pulls the boys in a TvP. Honestly I hope he has more than just this one build. Against a better protoss, he'd lose each time due to being to predictable.
On April 10 2015 21:08 yoshi245 wrote: I guess it's just not Flash unless he pulls the boys in a TvP. Honestly I hope he has more than just this one build. Against a better protoss, he'd lose each time due to being to predictable.
Or anyone who doesn't pull is useless? Ever thought of that?
On April 10 2015 21:08 yoshi245 wrote: I guess it's just not Flash unless he pulls the boys in a TvP. Honestly I hope he has more than just this one build. Against a better protoss, he'd lose each time due to being to predictable.
Or anyone who doesn't pull is useless? Ever thought of that?
And the point flew over your head. Reading is fundamental.
On April 10 2015 21:06 Alchemik wrote: how did Gumiho win?
g1 and g2 in very entertaining Bio games g3 he meched it happen
and how did the mech game look?
Was on Deadwing. Gumiho did some damage with runbys, Impact counter-attacked and it looked a bit close but Gumiho held. Eventually Gumiho moved across the map, slaughtered Impacts army and dealt with a small counter-attack using banshees.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
25%
★★★ - Good game (1)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 2
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On April 10 2015 21:11 XiaoJoyce- wrote: The pull the boys is good strategy? They only buffer like 1 sec before they melt away.
I just see 1 attack from 4 collosus kill 1/3 of SCV, 2nd attack kill another 1/3 . . . . .
Too much of a risk-reward type thing. They're pretty soft even with medivacs, but it's all about the surface area and proper engagement. That pack of SCV's buys bio enough time to focus on gateway units without fear of dying to Colossi for a short time, and that's basically all it takes.
Sadly if the Terran can't kill the Toss outright with it, good chance he lost.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
On April 10 2015 21:14 Wildmoon wrote: He could just do something like Maru did even it may be less effective. He looks kinda clueless strategically in TvP.
His games vs. Leenock were pretty flaky as well (rather lackluster decision making, second guessing, etc). I honestly think his skills have regressed somehow.
On April 10 2015 21:14 stargunner wrote: does anyone even still pull the boys anymore besides Flash?
I dunno, it seems like it should be a specific trick in what should be a whole bag of different tricks, but Flash just has like 6,000 copies of that one trick in his bag.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
Yup, that's me. Laughing at those who lose their money. Why not? I would be much happier if you would quit, but since I know you only from these threads I don't think I would lose that much
On April 10 2015 21:14 Wildmoon wrote: He could just do something like Maru did even it may be less effective. He looks kinda clueless strategically in TvP.
His games vs. Leenock were pretty flaky as well (rather lackluster decision making, second guessing, etc). I honestly think his skills have regressed somehow.
I think at this point hes completely lost interest.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
Yup, that's me. Laughing at those who lose their money. Why not? I would be much happier if you would quit, but since I know you only from these threads I don't think I would lose that much
Let's be hopeful that those first two games were Flash lulling Super into a sense of comfort, and now he reveals the true strategy he's been practicing #yeahright
On April 10 2015 21:14 stargunner wrote: does anyone even still pull the boys anymore besides Flash?
TvP consists of pulling the boys or yolo drops, with a few exceptions.
I was just under the impression that it had already been 'figured out' in TvP and so Maru et al stopped doing it.
Yeah its been moving away from scv pulls but its still used occasionally. I don't think maru was ever a big scv puller. He was doing the mass drops mainly even since early 2014.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
Last year I thought it was foolish of TB to participate in this sort of discussion. However, after paying more attention to his tweets the truth comes out: TB has #passion! Seriously. Occasionally it leads to a few tweets or posts that might not be considered professional... but again, after listening long enough I've realized it's because TB isn't speaking for/about himself. He's speaking out for his TEAM, his PLAYERS, or the CONSUMERS, ultimately US.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
Yup, that's me. Laughing at those who lose their money. Why not? I would be much happier if you would quit, but since I know you only from these threads I don't think I would lose that much
Let the rage flow
I'd probably be this much of a shithead too if my only relevance was baiting my betters in LR threads.
On April 10 2015 21:14 Wildmoon wrote: He could just do something like Maru did even it may be less effective. He looks kinda clueless strategically in TvP.
His games vs. Leenock were pretty flaky as well (rather lackluster decision making, second guessing, etc). I honestly think his skills have regressed somehow.
I think at this point hes completely lost interest.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible so you can't just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
This a good point about the strength of WCS imo. I noticed that even some leifeng cups were more stacked than WCS EU and WCS NA combined last year.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
On April 10 2015 21:27 Nyovne wrote: Stop the personal arguments in this topic please. Who this is aimed at, you know who you are. I'll be moderating otherwise.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
Don't act like a douche. This is a beta where people try out new units and stuff. Wins don't matter in the beta...
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
Last year I thought it was foolish of TB to participate in this sort of discussion. However, after paying more attention to his tweets the truth comes out: TB has #passion! Seriously. Occasionally it leads to a few tweets or posts that might not be considered professional... but again, after listening long enough I've realized it's because TB isn't speaking for/about himself. He's speaking out for his TEAM, his PLAYERS, or the CONSUMERS, ultimately US.
I don't agree with lot of his words, he's not talking for me.
On April 10 2015 20:58 sparklyresidue wrote: Axiom boys had a tough draw, too bad but maybe next time.
Dark was super tough... tbh Gumiho was doable - mid difficulty I'd say - if I see the other options that were in Code A. Where is our Code A power rank when we need it??
Gumiho was beatable. Builds were prepared, but GSL had other plans.
Dark winning is not a surprise, he is that good.
As I have anything against Axiom, I love that whenever they play horribly TB freaks out and entertain me His rage is so funny
Yes I'm sure it is hilarious for the peanut gallery that invest nothing in Starcraft 2 to laugh at the misfortunes of those that do.
It's also within our right to turn back around call you a toxic piece of shit for doing it. Toss $100,000 a year at Starcraft 2 and then tell me you wouldn't be in exactly the same mindset.
Yup, that's me. Laughing at those who lose their money. Why not? I would be much happier if you would quit, but since I know you only from these threads I don't think I would lose that much
Let the rage flow
I'd probably be this much of a shithead too if my only relevance was baiting my betters in LR threads.
Well I wasn't baiting you that wasn't the intention. I honestly don't understand why you reacted to my post at all, but since you did I am bored enough to reply black :>
On April 10 2015 21:28 showstealer1829 wrote: This series is the best case I've seen of an aura beating a man. Flash should be at best 1-2 down yet he's 2-1 up
Flash hasn't had a "aura" in the longest while. In fact, more recently he more viewed as an easier opponent.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
Don't act like a douche. This is a beta where people try out new units and stuff. Wins don't matter in the beta...
Morrow has the gall to bitch about his region-locked welfare tournament, he deserved to get ribbed for that. If you think the Winter jab was anything more than that then you're even dumbed than Miniraser.
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
His macro oriented style isn't really compatible with the current meta. I think he may come into his own in LoTV. He is too predictable and stubborn at the moment, I guess he playing to his strengths but as are seeing now players with more diverse strategies seem to be doing better currently.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
Well if you think about it, how many Koreans we had in WCS EU? 16? Maybe? So there was 16 open slots for EU SC2 players(+-, I know some slots went to Africa(PandaTank is the only player I know)). Now we have 10 slots? We don't have 16 for sure anymore. I would say that it's harder now to get into ro32 than before. At least for foreigner from Europe.
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
Last year I thought it was foolish of TB to participate in this sort of discussion. However, after paying more attention to his tweets the truth comes out: TB has #passion! Seriously. Occasionally it leads to a few tweets or posts that might not be considered professional... but again, after listening long enough I've realized it's because TB isn't speaking for/about himself. He's speaking out for his TEAM, his PLAYERS, or the CONSUMERS, ultimately US.
I don't agree with lot of his words, he's not talking for me.
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
Super does not get storm (reasonably fast), so pulling is pretty effective yeah
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
People are mostly complaining that Flash doesn't seem to use SCV pulling as one of his tricks but he seems to rely on it.
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
If he only did because Code S was on the line and was punishing timings then I'd agree but this is Flash, he does in EVERY game. Not just the important ones
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
Except its not about nationalities... its about them actually living there and practicing there! Not just fly there to pick up money. Its not like 10th team from spanish league flying to Malta every sunday to play league game and winning their league to get into champions league... while still getting money and all advantages of being in spain... They are dedicated for NA or EU and they live there and play there, no problem with that.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
It just goes to show that no matter what, foreigners can't compete. You can take away all but 3 of the Koreans and you'd still have had a Korean Top 3 if Polt and ForGG hadnt had to kill each other. You can take away all but 1 of the Koreans the winner will still be Korean.
Did any of the foreigners up their game in this new environment? Bunny maybe, that was about it. You could maybe argue Showtime in the group stage but he got stomped in the bracket so it's hard to say, this was his breakout performance for sure, even if it was almost all done fighting foreigners. Foreigners are given chance after chance after chance. I have no sympathy for them when they start running their mouths on Twitter. You get easy access to foreign tournaments, you get a region-locked event with guaranteed prizemoney all of your own. You have nothing to complain about and the very LEAST you can do is show a bit of solidarity when GSL pulls an obviously bullshit move.
There is no arguing about it. Any pro or manager would be pissed off in this situation. Anyone defending GSL is only doing it because they have some bone to pick with me, their position is indefensible otherwise.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
On April 10 2015 21:42 zimms wrote: This really interesting discussion would deserve an own thread. If not, cut it out. You may not realize there's still Code A going on.
Just ignore them. Grown men arguing with children. Involvement would demean us all.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 3
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 4
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
13%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 4
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Super vs Flash Game 5
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★★★ - Good game (2)
29%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Super vs Flash Game 5
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
I didn't look at the viewership numbers but I am pretty sure they are at least similar to the Korean Leagues so it's not Welfare it's what a considerable amount of viewers want to watch. Stop being so salty about signing mediocre Korean players that can't make it in Korean leagues.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
If he only did because Code S was on the line and was punishing timings then I'd agree but this is Flash, he does in EVERY game. Not just the important ones
I'm not saying it's just the important ones, its a response to that play style. He pushes at around 8 minutes to see if he can get something done (see game 3). If the protoss decides to sit and mass 5 colossi well then he will just get bio vikings and hit that 150 supp timing with pulled boys. I'd like to see a game contradicting this, I haven't seen flash do this against a different protoss style.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
I didn't look at the viewership numbers but I am pretty sure they are at least similar to the Korean Leagues so it's not Welfare it's what a considerable amount of viewers want to watch. Stop being so salty about signing mediocre Korean players that can't make it in Korean leagues.
Viewership numbers justify, what? Exactly? Justin Bieber sells a lot of albums too y'know.
Oh and shut the fuck up. People who invest nothing in the scene have nothing of interest to say on this topic, that's clear.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
If he only did because Code S was on the line and was punishing timings then I'd agree but this is Flash, he does in EVERY game. Not just the important ones
I'm not saying it's just the important ones, its a response to that play style. He pushes at around 8 minutes to see if he can get something done (see game 3). If the protoss decides to sit and mass 5 colossi well then he will just get bio vikings and hit that 150 supp timing with pulled boys. I'd like to see a game contradicting this, I haven't seen flash do this against a different protoss style.
Playstyle has nothing to do with Flash pulling the boys against Protoss. That's just so expected it's almost a meme now.
On April 10 2015 21:47 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Ahh . . . hahaha the 3-0 Super Own Flash Prediction ~
But , ah....scare the hell out of me . Flash game is so worrying. I keep pray for Opponent to mess up for Flash to win .
Yeah I know what you mean! Super kinda screwed up blinking his stalkers in the last game. As a fan of all things Terran, I'm OK with that. Sad the kid hasn't got a team though, hope he lands on his feet.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
I didn't look at the viewership numbers but I am pretty sure they are at least similar to the Korean Leagues so it's not Welfare it's what a considerable amount of viewers want to watch. Stop being so salty about signing mediocre Korean players that can't make it in Korean leagues.
Viewership numbers justify, what? Exactly? Justin Bieber sells a lot of albums too y'know.
Oh and shut the fuck up. People who invest nothing in the scene have nothing of interest to say on this topic, that's clear.
On April 10 2015 21:29 Topdoller wrote: Flash still does not convince me at all, a Protoss like Rain, i think would stomp him hard, if all he has in his locker is SCV pulling
i'm sure he's eagerly yearning for your approval
underrated post.
anyone who complains about flash pulling the boys is misunderstanding the mu. Why would you sit back and let a protoss mass a deathball when code s is on the line? That timing he hits is punishment for supers style of play.
If he only did because Code S was on the line and was punishing timings then I'd agree but this is Flash, he does in EVERY game. Not just the important ones
I'm not saying it's just the important ones, its a response to that play style. He pushes at around 8 minutes to see if he can get something done (see game 3). If the protoss decides to sit and mass 5 colossi well then he will just get bio vikings and hit that 150 supp timing with pulled boys. I'd like to see a game contradicting this, I haven't seen flash do this against a different protoss style.
Playstyle has nothing to do with Flash pulling the boys against Protoss. That's just so expected it's almost a meme now.
Well then please point me to some vods, I don't remember any that weren't a response to that p style.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment.
It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
On April 10 2015 21:47 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Ahh . . . hahaha the 3-0 Super Own Flash Prediction ~
But , ah....scare the hell out of me . Flash game is so worrying. I keep pray for Opponent to mess up for Flash to win .
Yeah I know what you mean! Super kinda screwed up blinking his stalkers in the last game. As a fan of all things Terran, I'm OK with that. Sad the kid hasn't got a team though, hope he lands on his feet.
I mean, he just left Invasion recently (today if the article is to be believed) so he could get into the Proleague environment, similar to what DRG said. They'll end up on a team sooner or later.
On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote: [quote] well, TB did act dumb here
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment.
It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote: [quote] well, TB did act dumb here
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
On April 10 2015 21:11 Alchemik wrote: [quote] well, TB did act dumb here
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment.
It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
Pretty sure StarDust will join the club soon. RIP foreign hopes and dreams of winning WCS.
On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
Having a few Koreans spiced the league up just right imo. It even helps the foreign scene improve, since they can prepare against the Koreans and compete against them all year long, instead of getting surprised by people that just flew in.
But it didn't improve the scene. There were only 3 Koreans in WCS in Season 1 and 3 of them made the final 4. Almost every map the foreigner came up against the Korean the foreigner got curbstomped.
If something changes in Season 2 I'll be the first to admit it but frankly seeing what I saw in the playoffs I'm not going to be shocked if we're back to Korean All Kill in the semis again this coming season at which point it achieves nothing, because the same naturalised Koreans are winning over and over and over and the foreign scene takes one giant leap backwards
Yeah we'll have to see, In think we will have a foreigner or two in the semis. But look at Bunny vs Polt. Bunny could've/should've won, but barely did not. So yeah the foreign scene lost in terms of money and titles, but Bunny himself got more out of that bo5 vs Polt than he would've after 3:0ing another foreigner, gameplay and experience wise that is. I am sure Bunny does not blame the system or Koreans, he blames only himself and is eager to do better next season.
Bunny being the only stand-out in a tournament you could have predicted the result of in the RO32 with little difficulty is if anything an indictment of the state of WCS World rather than a compliment.
It's only going to get worse the more Koreans get visas. Jaedongs got one now and despite his consistent failure in WCS, he's got a much easier field this time. Soon some of the Korean teams will realize they can send a player to China and get in that way and frankly why shouldnt they? Blizzard setup the rules that way, you're doing your team a disservice if you don't take advantage of them, especially when there are far too many good Koreans to even fit into the leagues they currently have.
Pretty sure StarDust will join the club soon. RIP foreign hopes and dreams of winning WCS.
Has will be our hope and will lead us out ot these dark times. Because he's Has it'll be hilarious too.
On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote: [quote] oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Oh look, more bullshit from someone who doesn't matter at all.
My opinion is relevant because it's my team that just got fucked by GSLs incompetence. If ANYONE has the right to vent right now, it's me.
On April 10 2015 21:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If by dumb you mean, baited out a couple of entitled mid-tier foreigners, sure.
They really should be grateful. WCS Worlds is welfare in its current state, it's money none of them would be able to earn legitimately if they had to compete with the Koreans and yet they still have the gall to bitch?
Yeah ok sure."Hey I was on Skype with friends playing LOTV so that's why I lost to Winter". Yeah? My guys were practicing, just like the rest of the Koreans, while you were fucking around with your friends on Skype and losing to a guy that beats up gold leaguers for a living, maybe that's why you can't compete with Koreans, Mr "Africa doesn't have computers" Morrow :x
oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I was too busy watching Innov v Byul, did Impact only prepare SW styles (assuming mech) on every map?
On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote: [quote] oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
If Bunny gets to 20 minutes vs Hydra it's a free win! No seriously, you're not giving Bunny enough credit. Polt was in a really bad TvZ slump in the beginning of this year, he needed like 3 qualifiers to get into WCS Challenger because he kept losing to Zergs (e.g. Kane). Bunny was consistently in really good shape in TvZ throughout the year. He should have had a decent chance.
On April 10 2015 22:08 GumBa wrote: My day in a nutshell Dark, GuMiho, Dear and Flash winning is good. INnoVation losing and getting banned sucks major balls.
On April 10 2015 22:08 GumBa wrote: My day in a nutshell Dark, GuMiho, Dear and Flash winning is good. INnoVation losing and getting banned sucks major balls.
On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote: [quote] oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
Bunny is 1-2 vs hydra, with all 3 games being close. He might not have won, but he would certainly be more competitive than you're giving him credit for.
On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
If Bunny gets to 20 minutes vs Hydra it's a free win! No seriously, you're not giving Bunny enough credit. Polt was in a really bad TvZ slump in the beginning of this year, he needed like 3 qualifiers to get into WCS Challenger because he kept losing to Zergs (e.g. Kane). Bunny was consistently in really good shape in TvZ throughout the year. He should have had a decent chance.
you're probably right, but i think hydra had huge momentum being 16-0 or something like that in the tournament, i think he would've been really confident and Bunny probably a tad intimidated.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
that's true of course, but Morrow was being cold headed and reasonable, and let's be honest, you just wanted to start some shit to have fun, which is fine i guess. haven't read the thread that much back to know everything you discussed about the wcs format.
my main point is that Polt could have been easily beaten by a foreigner, as he did many times in the recent past. Hydra is another matter, he would have shat on Bunny.
If Bunny gets to 20 minutes vs Hydra it's a free win! No seriously, you're not giving Bunny enough credit. Polt was in a really bad TvZ slump in the beginning of this year, he needed like 3 qualifiers to get into WCS Challenger because he kept losing to Zergs (e.g. Kane). Bunny was consistently in really good shape in TvZ throughout the year. He should have had a decent chance.
you're probably right, but i think hydra had huge momentum being 16-0 or something like that in the tournament, i think he would've been really confident and Bunny probably a tad intimidated.
Hydra actually lost a series to Morrow in WCS. And then he went on a rampage :S
On April 10 2015 21:20 Big J wrote: [quote] oh come on. GSL and S2SL have their own form of region lock by making it offline monthlong. If it was a weekend tournament with the qualifiers being held online, maybe even on alternating servers, we'd be seeing foreigners trying too.
Not that they'd be winning a lot, but calling WCS welfare because there are certain rules to make it impossible that you can just play the one WCS-tournament for the rest of the world if you don't feel like playing the two Korean-specific alternatives is quite pushing it.
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
On April 10 2015 21:21 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
"foreigners trying" and not getting past the qualifying stage yes. Every week there are qualifiers harder than WCS Worlds for events like IEM. Worlds is Welfare.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
But isn't the welfare needed? WCS S1 is was a great success and the foreign scene needed that I think. Koreans can still compete there if they live and practice there, which seems fair compared to flying in and out.
If Korea's football league wanted to improve, flying German and Spain teams in and out wouldn't really help. If the teams moved there and were available for practice matches all year long that's a different matter though.
I think the semi region lock works out really good so far for WCS and seems fair. Korea has double leagues and SPL now, over all the tournament scene seems globally very balanced to me. Eeverything besides WCS Premiere is completely open, only this one tournament has a soft region lock.
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
On April 10 2015 21:31 showstealer1829 wrote: [quote]
For all the talk of how WCS is supposed to be helping the foreign scene it was STILL two Koreans in the final. If anything I'd argue that just set the scene 3 steps backwards
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
But those to Koreans at least live in the region they compete and they didn't even need a translator. It was very easy for new viewers to relate to them and cheer for them, since they saw them competing against the best foreigners all weekend long. Completely different to seeing 16 koreans compete against each other and at the end 2 of them are in the final and they all talk korean and you can't really relate as a new viewer (I personally and most hardcore fans would not mind).
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
On April 10 2015 21:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
They saw them 3:0ing all the best foreigners you mean
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
Heh, fair enough, but let's see if Bunny/Snute/Showtime etc can step it up over the year . Bunny vs Polt was really freaking close. I would not be surprised if they could eliminate the odd Korean next season, still expecting a Korean final .
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time, it's not their fault that it's easier than a different tournament 5k miles away. Obviously someone will reply to it in such a manner because you're trying to belittle them, being borderline insulting. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game, but you try to give shit to him with irrelevant low blows like the winter game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote: [quote]
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
His team and players getting fucked sideways first by WCS then GSL isn't a good reason?
On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
His team and players getting fucked sideways first by WCS then GSL isn't a good reason?
you have to realize that being really frustrated is only "good reason" to be angry, but rarely to initiate reasonable discussion. TB just proved this himself.
On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote: [quote]
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
Yeah Twitter is 99% reaction and he was hot after today's games and the patch issues. Everyone knows you don't always make the right calls in the moment. Still, Morrow making $4,500 going out in ro32 is funny. I kind of hope his liquipedia is out of date cause at the moment the only tournament it says he won was when he 5 rax reapered IdrA back in 2010.
On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
Yeah Twitter is 99% reaction and he was hot after today's games and the patch issues. Everyone knows you don't always make the right calls in the moment. Still, Morrow making $4,500 going out in ro32 is funny. I kind of hope his liquipedia is out of date cause at the moment the only tournament it says he won was when he 5 rax reapered IdrA back in 2010.
that prize money is pretty crazy. and yes, he didn't win any other tournament i think. but if that's a reason to talk down on someone i suggest people take a look around in tl's roster before picking a random progamer who even takes the effort to reply to flame in a respectful manner.
On April 10 2015 21:57 Poopfeast 024 wrote: [quote]
polt's record is really lackluster vs terran, his record is 1-7 vs major, and he was also beaten by bunny and xenocider not so long ago. if anything, him winning was an upset, he could've been beaten by bunny so easily (just like he did at iem), hydra seeemed to do well recently vs much better opponents and only losing 1 set to foreigner, ironically that being morrow. TB was really off with his tweets, morrow was reasonable in the tweet fight and he is actually one of the few that managed to pull an upset vs a top tier korean, while TB only tried to look like a jackass (he reminded me of Thorin, and you don't wanna look like thorin).
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ?
They could say nothing at all, which would have been the smart thing to do.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
His team and players getting fucked sideways first by WCS then GSL isn't a good reason?
you have to realize that being really frustrated is only "good reason" to be angry, but rarely to initiate reasonable discussion. TB just proved this himself.
And you always have "reasonable" discussion when you're angry? Again I'm not saying TB wasn't blunt but that's TB, we should know that by now. I'm just saying he has a right to be angry and for his bluntness he isn't wrong either
On April 10 2015 21:59 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
Morrow had nothing of value to add. Any foreigner that isn't grateful for WCS World isn't worth their salt. Ignoring that Miniraser is great at running his mouth but can't even qualify for WCS World, there is nothing to discuss. Foreigners got given a gift. If all they can do is bitch about it then they're not worth listening to. Our team got fucked hard by WCS changes, worse than any other team out there. Korean SC2 is the hardest it's ever been and that's without GSL pulling the wool over peoples eyes at the last minute or your presence in Code S relying 9/10ths on who you happen to get randomly drawn against in a single elimination match.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ?
They could say nothing at all, which would have been the smart thing to do.
If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ?
They could say nothing at all, which would have been the smart thing to do.
Maybe you should have started by doing that then
I can't be held responsible for the immaturity of others.
On April 10 2015 22:14 showstealer1829 wrote: [quote]
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ?
They could say nothing at all, which would have been the smart thing to do.
Maybe you should have started by doing that then
I can't be held responsible for the immaturity of others.
But for your own... this is really pointless you're not accessible to anything unfortunately
On April 10 2015 22:14 showstealer1829 wrote: [quote]
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ?
They could say nothing at all, which would have been the smart thing to do.
Maybe you should have started by doing that then
I can't be held responsible for the immaturity of others.
On April 10 2015 22:14 showstealer1829 wrote: [quote]
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
His team and players getting fucked sideways first by WCS then GSL isn't a good reason?
you have to realize that being really frustrated is only "good reason" to be angry, but rarely to initiate reasonable discussion. TB just proved this himself.
And you always have "reasonable" discussion when you're angry? Again I'm not saying TB wasn't blunt but that's TB, we should know that by now. I'm just saying he has a right to be angry and for his bluntness he isn't wrong either
he was criticizing opinions and tweets to be irrelevant and without substance, now tell me what was the substance of his tweets. stating something everyone already knows in an edgy way trying to provoke people. frustration is merely the cause he made those tweets, and they were absolutely unnecessary and pointless. i find it astounding that people defend him for being a naniwa-ish jackass here. is "i have a team so i can be as edgy as i want" really a valid argument? I'm sure he wouldn't think those tweets were trying to achieve anything useful with a cold head either.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
I am sad for you that you really seem to think that throwing around some money in itself makes your opinion more relevant. Especially if you talk about the skill of players while you never made it out of bronze league. Have fun throwing around the word toxic all day everyday.
Huh?
Does every team owner have more relevance than most? If the teams pull out then the game dies right? I'm confused as to how you figure where the opinion is not relevant. Especially since it appears Axiom was told one thing before play only to have it change when they got there.
As much as TB is kinda blunt in saying it. I don't blame him for it, he is right. Axiom got fucked over hardcore, they're still getting fucked to this day. It's only through hard work and a passionate owner they still exist. Any other owner would've walked away.
There's this weird thing on the internet where people believe opinions have equal weight.
Newsflash, they don't. Opinions from the peanut gallery don't matter as much as opinions of progamers, managers, tournament organizers, whatever, on subjects that directly involve them.
This screwup directly involves my team. My opinion is obviously relevant to that. Random guy on forum? Not so much. They have no investment to protect, they have no horse in the race, their opinions are as a result, flippant and lacking in substance.
Any sane person would respect the notion of standing by your players, even when they lose. But some of the people in this scene are not sane.
You don't seem to respect the opinion of progamers very much
I am so very sorry for not thinking that "LOL UR FAT" is somehow cutting edge commentary on the state of the business. Miniraiser is a fucking childish edgelord who should have his twitter account revoked by his manager until he is good enough to qualify for WCS World.
You have a very selective memory
Not at all. Nothing of worth was said by Morrow and certainly not by Miniraiser. Foreigners should be grateful they have WCS World. That was the statement. You wanna dispute that? Because apparently Morrow does, which is a joke. Any foreigner should be VERY happy that they get such a lucrative region-locked event.
People like uThermal are delusional if they think WCS World is harder than even something like Olimoleague. Almost every Korean qualifier is harder than WCS World, heck those events are often harder than Code A.
what were you expecting to something like " i hope foreigners realize how lucky they are (...)" ? did you expect they say "yes we realize, forgive me for trying" ? your statement was absolutely not worth a discussion, every player will obviously try to compete in tournaments they think are worth their time. Obviously someone will reply to it because you're trying to belittle them foreigners. They also are infintely better at the game than you, and you have no precise information of the time and effort they invest in the game. you were just being provocative for no real reason but to amuse yourself, calling people out, trying to start a flamewar, taking pages out of naniwa's or thorin's book (the two shittiest books available, mind you). Morrow was like 10 times more respectful that the majority of other players would have been. Miniraser was about as childish as you.
Yeah Twitter is 99% reaction and he was hot after today's games and the patch issues. Everyone knows you don't always make the right calls in the moment. Still, Morrow making $4,500 going out in ro32 is funny. I kind of hope his liquipedia is out of date cause at the moment the only tournament it says he won was when he 5 rax reapered IdrA back in 2010.
that prize money is pretty crazy. and yes, he didn't win any other tournament i think. but if that's a reason to talk down on someone i suggest people take a look around in tl's roster before picking a random progamer who even takes the effort to reply to flame in a respectful manner.
I'm not trying to justify his tweets, they're TB's tweets. I wouldn't talk down to people cause I'm low level, But TB is right here if blizz wasn't region locking then Morrow (& plenty of others) would have switched game or something by now.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
Yeah it's been like a while now since this all happened I'm surprised he hasn't calmed down a bit.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
Yeah it's been like a while now since this all happened I'm surprised he hasn't calmed down a bit.
How is it possible to calm down when the morons of the peanut gallery come here and spew their uninformed inflammatory opinions everywhere and Reddit is jerking itself into a coma over DANK TWITTER DRAMAZ?
I'm waiting for anyone to be able to dispute either of those two statements. If they can't, there's nothing more to talk about.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
Yeah it's been like a while now since this all happened I'm surprised he hasn't calmed down a bit.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
Yeah it's been like a while now since this all happened I'm surprised he hasn't calmed down a bit.
How is it possible to calm down when the morons of the peanut gallery come here and spew their uninformed inflammatory opinions everywhere and Reddit is jerking itself into a coma over DANK TWITTER DRAMAZ?
Cause you're saying one thing (not all opinions are equal, forum dwellers < people who are involved/invested etc) but then you keep refreshing this page and replying and getting hot about reddit. What do you expect dude?
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
Yeah it's been like a while now since this all happened I'm surprised he hasn't calmed down a bit.
I mean, when we didn't have region lock, the argument was that we needed that to create a place where foreigners could compete. Now that we have it, somehow it's not an easier way for foreigners to compete? Well what else is it supposed to be, then? The problem isn't that TB is disregarding the opinion of others, the problem is that some opinions aren't based in reality and should be called out as such.
I think people aren't looking at it the wrong way here. This isn't a "TotalBiscuit v The World" thing. This is a matter of professionalism. GSL is supposedly the most professional tournament in the scene yet they don't have the maps ready when they explicitly told players they would? How is that fair? We can argue the merits of the region lock till the cows come home but that was never the original point.
Just think for a moment if the player in question was Snute and not Impact and it cost Snute a chance to make WCS Season 2. I think TL would burn to the ground under the hate. Would we be telling them to just accept the decision and be reasonable? I don't think so.
Look I'm not just saying this because I'm an Axiom and TB fanboy. It's true I love Axiom but TB doesn't need my defence. I just don't get where the hate comes off for what seems simple.
Again let me be clear, the region lock thing here is a separate issue. One I'm sure will be debated more and more as more Koreans come into the pool. To compare the two is apples and oranges at this point. We know WCS World is the inferior product, however much the progamers will argue, again not the issue. The issue here is GSL and I think anyone would be pissed if they were a fan of Axiom at what happened, much less the team owner and yet people seem to want TB to be emotionless and professional and to just take it. I don't get that but hey I have no real meaning in the argument other than a fan, like pretty much everyone here.
Now if you'll excuse me. My body must prepare for Clan Wars and the return of GuiltyGod on Monday
On April 10 2015 23:02 Nebuchad wrote: I mean, when we didn't have region lock, the argument was that we needed that to create a place where foreigners could compete. Now that we have it, somehow it's not an easier way for foreigners to compete? Well what else is it supposed to be, then? The problem isn't that TB is disregarding the opinion of others, the problem is that some opinions aren't based in reality and should be called out as such.
It's a select few foreigners and fans of said foreigners getting salty about the reality that Blizzard threw them a huge bone because they couldn't compete.
Like I said, they should be grateful Blizzard gave them that. Last year WCS NA was as hard as Code A, there were like 17 Koreans in it. Now World has 3 (who would have been the top 3 if ForGG didnt get bracketscrewed). If I was a foreign player right now I'd be on my knees thanking Blizzard for giving me a chance, not bitching that Koreans are too hard so they shouldn't have to play them, or making silly comparisons to light and heavyweight boxers.
I don't know what dimension people live in where a team owner wouldn't get royally fucking pissed that his team got screwed by GSLs mess-up, but please, if you come from that dimension, feel free to go back to it.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
On April 10 2015 23:02 Nebuchad wrote: I mean, when we didn't have region lock, the argument was that we needed that to create a place where foreigners could compete. Now that we have it, somehow it's not an easier way for foreigners to compete? Well what else is it supposed to be, then? The problem isn't that TB is disregarding the opinion of others, the problem is that some opinions aren't based in reality and should be called out as such.
I don't know man, the region locking doesn't help really does it? as TB said eventually you'll just see the korean talent that can't get through KR quals get paid by teams to relocate to china and then EU will be full of Koreans again.
On April 10 2015 23:06 stuchiu wrote: Foreigners are fortunate to have region-locked WCS and GSL fucked up today. Is there something strange about those statements?
Not about GSL fucking up, not sure about the other point myself.
On April 10 2015 23:06 stuchiu wrote: Foreigners are fortunate to have region-locked WCS and GSL fucked up today. Is there something strange about those statements?
Apparently some people see it as "bashing foreigners" and there are a few haters that just want to shit on Axiom whenever they get the opportunity.
So hey that's apparently what this whole stupid argument is about. Nothing at all.
On April 10 2015 23:06 stuchiu wrote: Foreigners are fortunate to have region-locked WCS and GSL fucked up today. Is there something strange about those statements?
Not about GSL fucking up, not sure about the other point myself.
Given how much of a money suck WCS/GSL/whatever else Blizzard is paying for is in general I think it's pretty fortunate yea.
On April 10 2015 23:02 Nebuchad wrote: I mean, when we didn't have region lock, the argument was that we needed that to create a place where foreigners could compete. Now that we have it, somehow it's not an easier way for foreigners to compete? Well what else is it supposed to be, then? The problem isn't that TB is disregarding the opinion of others, the problem is that some opinions aren't based in reality and should be called out as such.
Arrived late for this delicious drama. From what I can gather TB called out the foreign scene for being EX Mode compared to Korea and a bunch of foreigners got their egos hurt and raged?
My two cents, though TB could have maybe worded it nicer to avoid this all. His point is 100% valid. Anyone who thinks the foreign scenes WCS is harder then even Code A is not living in reality and need a serious wake up call. WCS AM etc. are a joke in terms of competition compared to even weekly tournaments in Korea... That being said it was supposed to be like this, supposed to give the foreign scene some cash so our players can focus and train 100% like the Koreans so the end game the scenes can be even. Whether that will work or not meh.
Edit: Well shit. Kind of fitting I guess my 6000th post is about drama.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it. It is the easiest skill/prizemoney ratio tournament in the world right now, it's easier than online leagues and qualifiers. Still worth watching, but let's not pretend foreigners aren't lucky to have it.
And let's not get started on WCS points I mean holy shit. There's a can of worms. The top ranked foreigner in WCS right now is Bunny with 950 points. He got all of those points from WCS and so did Showtime, who also has 950. Below him, we have fucking BByong, Leenock, sOs, Classic, Solar, Gumiho and more. Where did they get their points? GSL, IEM and SSL, against much harder opponents.
That's quite the discussion to have. Let's stop pretending that foreigners are not being given a leg up. I'm not even mad about that, I just want them to accept it. Sure, give foreigners a boost, why not? Just don't pretend that boost isn't there.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it. It is the easiest skill/prizemoney ratio tournament in the world right now, it's easier than online leagues and qualifiers. Still worth watching, but let's not pretend foreigners aren't lucky to have it.
This is such an interesting phenomenon. I can't think of any other form of competition where one nationality is excluded for statistically being better.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
I also think protecting weaker regions just makes them stagnate. Sure, some foreigners get paid and that's good, but they don't get a better practice environment. ToD I think made an argument on Late Game that sure, let the Koreans play, but make them practice on the ladder of the tournament they're going to play in, to give foreigners a more competitive ladder. Not a bad idea.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues.
I would tune in just to watch the qualifiers for team Korea because that's where the real competition is.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I totally agree with your two statements. I also totally understand that you are, legitimately, angry because of the GSL thing. Now can you tell me : -What's the point of bringing in WCS being weak? What's the relationship between (a) GSL/Blizz being incompetent and (b) WCS being purposely made to award money and exposure to mid-tier foreigners? That's not going to achieve anything useful except bait twitter-loving players. -What's the point of arguing with people you apparently consider to hold invalid opinions? And what's the point of being openly insulting towards them? It doesn't add anything to your argument nor makes your opinion more valid. If anything it detracts from your point. -About the relevancy of opinions : I often see you say that your opinion is more valid than others, but I think that you don't realize that relevancy is relative, not absolute. You hold Morrow's opinion on WCS as worthless, but he probably holds yours as worthless, and other people will hold one or the other, or both, as worthless. An opinion is by its very definition irrelevant unless it is the basis of an actual decision. So why do you keep saying to random forumers that their opinion is irrelevant? Even if you change the mind of said forumer, that's not going to be translated by anything concrete. You're wasting your time
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though. Edit: Visa part is hard, that's true, but otherwise they would just fly in and out, not helping the local scene.
I also think protecting weaker regions just makes them stagnate. Sure, some foreigners get paid and that's good, but they don't get a better practice environment. ToD I think made an argument on Late Game that sure, let the Koreans play, but make them practice on the ladder of the tournament they're going to play in, to give foreigners a more competitive ladder. Not a bad idea.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
I also think protecting weaker regions just makes them stagnate. Sure, some foreigners get paid and that's good, but they don't get a better practice environment. ToD I think made an argument on Late Game that sure, let the Koreans play, but make them practice on the ladder of the tournament they're going to play in, to give foreigners a more competitive ladder. Not a bad idea.
Yeah I love that idea!
How would you implement it though? I mean I iust don't see how it could be done
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
-What's the point of arguing with people you apparently consider to hold invalid opinions?
Oo... What's the point of arguing with people you consider to hold valid opinions?
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it. It is the easiest skill/prizemoney ratio tournament in the world right now, it's easier than online leagues and qualifiers. Still worth watching, but let's not pretend foreigners aren't lucky to have it.
This is such an interesting phenomenon. I can't think of any other form of competition where one nationality is excluded for statistically being better.
They are discussing this in Biathlon where Norway has a big lead It's not that huge now(compared to Korea and SC2), but some mumbling from the competitors is heard from time to time and the gap is slowly widening. Last time I heard something about lowering the numbers of Norwegians in a race because others want to be in top5 too
ToDs idea was good in theory, the lag just wouldn't make it viable though, are you going to uproot a whole team and move them to Europe/America just so they can have competitive lag? I mean I know China has already been mentioned but when every Korean starts heading there and qualifies for WCS World watch that loophole get slammed shut
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
Yeah I love HSC, but it should not give WCS points.
On April 10 2015 23:23 showstealer1829 wrote: ToDs idea was good in theory, the lag just wouldn't make it viable though, are you going to uproot a whole team and move them to Europe/America just so they can have competitive lag?
That's what Hydra, ForGG and Polt had to do to compete in WCS. Move to and live in foreign countries.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it. It is the easiest skill/prizemoney ratio tournament in the world right now, it's easier than online leagues and qualifiers. Still worth watching, but let's not pretend foreigners aren't lucky to have it.
This is such an interesting phenomenon. I can't think of any other form of competition where one nationality is excluded for statistically being better.
The biggest comparison is the olympics, when participants are limited by nationality. But it makes sense in that all nations have a limit to reach, it's still very different from saying one nation is banned.
On April 10 2015 23:23 showstealer1829 wrote: ToDs idea was good in theory, the lag just wouldn't make it viable though, are you going to uproot a whole team and move them to Europe/America just so they can have competitive lag?
That's what Hydra, ForGG and Polt had to do to compete in WCS. Move to and live in foreign countries.
Polt was already kind of there so it's not fair to include him. Plus they're not Korean based teams. Polt is part of a two man team. ForGG and Hydra are with teams based in the region. That's different to moving an entire team to a country.
Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
If you don't help foreigners and all tournaments end up being full korean I'm sure the viewership will drop and probably tournaments would start offering less prize money, so koreans would get screwed as well. I think it's a system that tries to maximize happiness and it's not about foreigners being thankful, it's just a tradeoff.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
-What's the point of arguing with people you apparently consider to hold invalid opinions?
Oo... What's the point of arguing with people you consider to hold valid opinions?
Well, you could consider an opinion to be neither valid nor invalid, which means that you are interested in the reasoning behind the opinion.
On April 10 2015 23:23 showstealer1829 wrote: ToDs idea was good in theory, the lag just wouldn't make it viable though, are you going to uproot a whole team and move them to Europe/America just so they can have competitive lag?
That's what Hydra, ForGG and Polt had to do to compete in WCS. Move to and live in foreign countries.
ForGG didn't move to participate in WCS. WCS was created after he moved.
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
If you don't help foreigners and all tournaments end up being full korean I'm sure the viewership will drop and probably tournaments would start offering less prize money, so koreans would get screwed as well. I think it's a system that tries to maximize happiness and it's not about foreigners being thankful, it's just a tradeoff.
This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play? Who are these people that tune out because there isn't an even distribution of nationailities. Why would that affect the game for them? Like who the fuck was watching SL in BW and then noped out because IdrA wasn't in it.
On April 10 2015 23:33 Nebuchad wrote: Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
And yes, I am annoyed that I even have to say it.
You're comparing apples and oranges though.
To use your analogy this is an argument between a producer of 24 and a fan of 24. Of course the producer has more weight in his argument, he's providing the entertainment, he's paying the actors, he's making sure there is a 24 for the fan to have an opinion on, that's the difference
On April 10 2015 23:33 Nebuchad wrote: Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
And yes, I am annoyed that I even have to say it.
What? Since when is quality objective? A show, a song, an object, ANYTHING, can be of good and bad quality at the same time, for different people. You're basically denying diversity here. When you say 2+2=4, it is your subjective opinion that is shared by basically everyone, thus it is considered as objective and enters the realm of what we call "truth". When you say "this show is bad", it is your subjective opinion that isn't shared by everyone, thus it is considered as subjective. I mean come on, the very principle of opinions is that they're contradictory AND subjective. Or else, why aren't we living in a perfect society where the "true" opinions are shared by everyone? Why are so many ppl disagreeing everyday if so many of those people are just "wrong"?
On April 10 2015 22:54 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
If you don't help foreigners and all tournaments end up being full korean I'm sure the viewership will drop and probably tournaments would start offering less prize money, so koreans would get screwed as well. I think it's a system that tries to maximize happiness and it's not about foreigners being thankful, it's just a tradeoff.
This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play? Who are these people that tune out because there isn't an even distribution of nationailities. Why would that affect the game for them? Like who the fuck was watching SL in BW and then noped out because IdrA wasn't in it.
I wouldn't stop watching, but I might understand that some people wouldn't. It's always more fun to watch a sport if you are rooting for someone, and it's easier to root for someone more close to your country than a faceless korean. That obviously doesn't mean that some other just care about the game and not who is playing it. All in all, I was just stating that a part of the viewership spectrum would drop.
On April 10 2015 22:57 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
If you don't help foreigners and all tournaments end up being full korean I'm sure the viewership will drop and probably tournaments would start offering less prize money, so koreans would get screwed as well. I think it's a system that tries to maximize happiness and it's not about foreigners being thankful, it's just a tradeoff.
This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play? Who are these people that tune out because there isn't an even distribution of nationailities. Why would that affect the game for them? Like who the fuck was watching SL in BW and then noped out because IdrA wasn't in it.
I wouldn't stop watching, but I might understand that some people wouldn't. It's always more fun to watch a sport if you are rooting for someone, and it's easier to root for someone more close to your country than a faceless korean. That obviously doesn't mean that some other just care about the game and not who is playing it. All in all, I was just stating that a part of the viewership spectrum would drop.
I see what you're saying, however i think it is a bit shortsighted to watch sc2 and then pick your favourite players based on an irrelevant attribute of the player. Personally I remember watching Marineking vs Kyrix and from then on I watched pretty much every MK game despite his fall in form. It makes more sense to me to follow players based on skill/playstyle, but you're right others may look for personality etc.
wow I stopped by to see what people were saying about the game, we seem to have a shitstorm instead, anyone would be kind enough to tell me what page of this thread I have to go to to catch up?
On April 10 2015 23:33 Nebuchad wrote: Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
And yes, I am annoyed that I even have to say it.
What? Since when is quality objective? A show, a song, an object, ANYTHING, can be of good and bad quality at the same time, for different people. You're basically denying diversity here.
You're confusing taste and quality here. Diversity happens in what you like, and falls under the first category. Quality really doesn't. Haven't you ever heard a commercial song that you enjoyed, or heard classical music that just got you bored? Haven't you ever watched a movie that doesn't make a lot of sense and that you enjoyed anyways? Haven't you ever watched a very smart, very competently made TV show, that you had no interest in?
On April 10 2015 23:54 Gwavajuice wrote: wow I stopped by to see what people were saying about the game, we seem to have a shitstorm instead, anyone would be kind enough to tell me what page of this thread I have to go to to catch up?
On April 10 2015 22:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: If foreigners get insulted by being told the facts, that they get an easy league because they're not good enough to beat Koreans (which they have proven countless times over the past 5 years with very rare exceptions), then that goes to show their insecurities.
If Morrow and Miniraiser had any class they'd be showing solidarity for their fellow progamers who got fucked over by GSLs incompetence today but I'd have to send Miniraiser a dictionary with just the C section for him to figure out what class means.
This is not about foreigners, it never was. They're not relevant to the GSL and they haven't been since Jinro. If they want to make it all about them, thats their business but it'd be nice if they did it in a place I didnt have to read and instead acknowledged that what GSL pulled today was bullshit.
Sometimes you should take a step back, have a break, and then read what you wrote as if it had been written by someone else.
If it was written by someone else it wouldn't be as relevant to this discussion.
Here are two statements that I dare you to disagree with.
1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney
2) GSL messed up today by changing the effective ruleset of the tournament hours before games were to be played.
Can you? Because that's all this argument is. Everything else is pointless bullshit. Morrow got a light ribbing and suddenly Miniraiser goes full moron on Twitter for whatever reason and starts a flamewar. It has nothing to do with either of those statements, which remain true and frankly anyone disagreeing with either of them is living on a different planet.
I think nobody would ever disagree with your second point, but I'd like to ask something about the first point.
"1) Foreigners are fortunate to have a region-locked tournament which rewards huge amount of prizemoney"
Isn't that like saying "Korean Football players should be grateful and are fortunate that they have their own national league to compete in, instead of having to play Barca and Bayern etc...", while I would argue that it's just normal and how things are supposed to be and nothing to be especially grateful for?
Yeah but this isn't a national league is it. It's literally "everyone who isn't Korean". That's like saying let's have the World Cup but make sure the previous World Cup winners can't play because it would be too hard for the other teams.
i'd be in favour of national WCS leagues. That'd be great, then have them feed into something bigger, but that's not what WCS World is. WCS World is the "No Koreans allowed" treehouse and foreigners should be very grateful to have it.
Hm makes sense, I agree. Although I still think it's fair since Koreans are actually allowed, they are just not supposed to train in Korea, fly in, win the money and fly out. Taking different training grounds into account and protecting weaker regions is good imo.
So after taking your points into cosideration, I still think WCS Premier is good and fair, but foreigners are indeed fortunate and should be grateful!
I think having to uproot, get a visa (which is not easy) and move to another country to compete is a pretty stiff penalty.
Foreigners competing in GSL, training on Korea alwas had to do that too though.
Sure, but 90% of the tournaments in SC2 happen outside of Korea so you can also argue that foreigners have a much easier time of it because they have access to more events than Koreans do, who have to pay $1000 minimum just to get to them, let alone hotel costs. AND THAT, is assuming they even get in, which often involves playing a grueling Korean qualifier that's harder than the tournament they're qualifying for in the first place. On the other hand, foreigners have things like Homestory Cup which is for all intents and purposes an invitational with only 2 spots for korean qualifiers out of 32 players.
If you don't help foreigners and all tournaments end up being full korean I'm sure the viewership will drop and probably tournaments would start offering less prize money, so koreans would get screwed as well. I think it's a system that tries to maximize happiness and it's not about foreigners being thankful, it's just a tradeoff.
Koreans get screwed already. I get why WCS World exists, but I still think foreigners should be praising the Blizzgods for making it happen. Blizzard is protecting an endangered species that wouldn't survive in the wild.
On April 10 2015 23:54 Gwavajuice wrote: wow I stopped by to see what people were saying about the game, we seem to have a shitstorm instead, anyone would be kind enough to tell me what page of this thread I have to go to to catch up?
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
well 2 players getting 3-0'd on changed maps that would have been 3-0'd on any map anyway and some insulting on twitter could only fuel so much debate, in case you're disappointed that the discussion is getting slow and tired
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
lol who cares about some local football game besides the players' family members?
On April 10 2015 23:33 Nebuchad wrote: Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
And yes, I am annoyed that I even have to say it.
What? Since when is quality objective? A show, a song, an object, ANYTHING, can be of good and bad quality at the same time, for different people. You're basically denying diversity here.
You're confusing taste and quality here. Diversity happens in what you like, and falls under the first category. Quality really doesn't. Haven't you ever heard a commercial song that you enjoyed, or heard classical music that just got you bored? Haven't you ever watched a movie that doesn't make a lot of sense and that you enjoyed anyways? Haven't you ever watched a very smart, very competently made TV show, that you had no interest in?
Well taste is what a given individual considers to be good, as in "of good quality", isn't it? I have no shame in admitting that I consider classical music to be bad, that is my taste, and that is also my opinion. It is neither wrong nor right, or more precisely it is "right" for me and probably other ppl too, and "wrong" for other people. When I watch and enjoy a stupid movie, it is because I consider it good, unless I'm a masochist and like to watch things I dislike. And that common judgement that there are things that are systematically of good quality, like classical music, fine wine or small independant movies, and that there are things that are systematically of bad quality, like violent electronic music, cheap beer or big blockbuster movies, is a cultural and societal construction that people use to judge people based on their taste, and thus their opinions. And also to make some ppl feel better about watching popular, mass-oriented shit under the silly reason that "it's so bad that it's enjoyable, but really, it isn't me having shitty taste, you know", i guess.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
Local heroes are from a country. [non-Korea] isn't a country.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
If being a moron was competitive, you'd be Code S champion.
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
lol who cares about some local football game besides the players' family members?
I seriously doubt the 30-40k people filling the local stadiums every week and the hundreds of thousands watching on tv are all family-related to the players
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
lol who cares about some local football game besides the players' family members?
I seriously doubt the 30-40k people filling the local stadiums every week and the hundreds of thousands watching on tv are all family-related to the players
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
On April 10 2015 23:33 Nebuchad wrote: Also here's something that people apparently do not get about opinions.
Let's posit someone who likes 24. He says I like 24. Let's then posit someone else who says he doesn't like 24. He says he doesn't like 24. Assuming good faith on both sides, you have someone who likes 24 and someone who doesn't. That isn't contradictory, and that's their opinion.
Let's then posit someone who says 24 is a well-made show, and someone who says 24 isn't a well-made show. We are now talking about quality, and there is a right answer to this question. 24 cannot be of good and bad quality at the same time, and so one of these people is wrong.
What TB says doesn't fall in the first category. It's not either true or false depending on your opinion, it's simply either true or false. So the fact that it's TB's opinion isn't relevant to the discussion. When I say 2+2=4, it's still me talking, so it's still my subjective opinion. No one cares, though.
And yes, I am annoyed that I even have to say it.
What? Since when is quality objective? A show, a song, an object, ANYTHING, can be of good and bad quality at the same time, for different people. You're basically denying diversity here.
You're confusing taste and quality here. Diversity happens in what you like, and falls under the first category. Quality really doesn't. Haven't you ever heard a commercial song that you enjoyed, or heard classical music that just got you bored? Haven't you ever watched a movie that doesn't make a lot of sense and that you enjoyed anyways? Haven't you ever watched a very smart, very competently made TV show, that you had no interest in?
Well taste is what a given individual considers to be good, as in "of good quality", isn't it? I have no shame in admitting that I consider classical music to be bad, that is my taste, and that is also my opinion. It is neither wrong nor right, or more precisely it is "right" for me and probably other ppl too, and "wrong" for other people. When I watch and enjoy a stupid movie, it is because I consider it good, unless I'm a masochist and like to watch things I dislike. And that common judgement that there are things that are systematically of good quality, like classical music, fine wine or small independant movies, and that there are things that are systematically of bad quality, like violent electronic music, cheap beer or big blockbuster movies, is a cultural and societal construction that people use to judge people based on their taste, and thus their opinions. And also to make some ppl feel better about watching popular, mass-oriented shit under the silly reason that "it's so bad that it's enjoyable, but really, it isn't me having shitty taste, you know", i guess.
I'm going to PM (as I should have already) but you're still confusing taste and quality here.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Again I would just love to see the reaction had this happened to Snute or TLO and not Impact..
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Again I would just love to see the reaction had this happened to Snute or TLO and not Impact..
Well I am pretty sure Nazghul would be much calmer
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
lol who cares about some local football game besides the players' family members?
This just is not an accurate analogy. Supporting your local team does not equal not preferring higher level play. I think fans of football would go to the higher quality games if they could get tickets/travel to them. Supporting your local team provides a cheaper football experience and offers the community of being a fan of the club, a very different thing to preferring the highest level of play. This is only increased as the level of play declines pretty much.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
Just a curious question - regarding the patch - how is the zerg player able to play Swarm Hosts into bio? I mean, is it even possible to play it and win with that? Maybe Impact wanna open every game with SH turtle play into the advancement and that's what was the rage all about, otherwise I don't get it, because of what you said about bio play.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
On April 10 2015 23:39 Exstasy wrote: This I don't get at all. Why would viewers not just want to see the highest level of play?
For the same reason the majority of people still prefer to watch their local football club play over watching the Champion's League, despite the superior quality of play in the latter.
For a scene/game to stay alive the average viewer needs local heroes to root for, and needs a lure for players to attempt making it to the level where it becomes financially interesting. I think the impact of that shouldn't be underestimated. As such it made sense for Blizzard to regionlock WCS, they need the local scene to stay alive rather than dominated by second-tier Koreans to keep selling their game & brand. They're still a business, not a charity.
lol who cares about some local football game besides the players' family members?
This just is not an accurate analogy. Supporting your local team does not equal not preferring higher level play. I think fans of football would go to the higher quality games if they could get tickets/travel to them. Supporting your local team provides a cheaper football experience and offers the community of being a fan of the club, a very different thing to preferring the highest level of play. This is only increased as the level of play declines pretty much.
edit* this was aimed at Elisse primarily
I got that, and I feel it still holds true imho. Steering it back from football to SC; for the average casual viewer an inferior 'local' player (from your country, region, ...) will be more appealing to get behind than a superior second tier Korean.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
well 2 players getting 3-0'd on changed maps that would have been 3-0'd on any map anyway and some insulting on twitter could only fuel so much debate, in case you're disappointed that the discussion is getting slow and tired
I'm more disappointed it went on for like 15 pages
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
well 2 players getting 3-0'd on changed maps that would have been 3-0'd on any map anyway and some insulting on twitter could only fuel so much debate, in case you're disappointed that the discussion is getting slow and tired
I'm more disappointed it went on for like 15 pages
come on, this kind of shit was missing here for a while now
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
Chances are he doesn't go bio prepatch.
And when did I say he only prepped SH strats? He spent a lot of time doing that and this fuckup from GSL screwed with his prep big time but that's not all he prepared. Problem is if most of your builds now don't work, you are left at a fundamental disadvantage, whereas whatever builds Gumiho had prepared still work just fine (with the exception of any raven heavy super late game turtle-mech).
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
Chances are he doesn't go bio prepatch.
That's kinda silly. Gumiho would also prepare for the series and the possible maps that come, you think he throws that out the window on short notice because of a patch that doesn't change the way mech plays except for raven heavy comps? If anything the patch should have made him go mech even more if he changed strats.
Doesn't change the fact that GSL fucked it up tho.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
Chances are he doesn't go bio prepatch.
And when did I say he only prepped SH strats? He spent a lot of time doing that and this fuckup from GSL screwed with his prep big time but that's not all he prepared. Problem is if most of your builds now don't work, you are left at a fundamental disadvantage, whereas whatever builds Gumiho had prepared still work just fine (with the exception of any raven heavy super late game turtle-mech).
You say Gumiho switched from his prepared mech to bio because of the patch but didn't need to change up his buildorders because terran is not affected by the patch?
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
Chances are he doesn't go bio prepatch.
That's kinda silly. Gumiho would also prepare for the series and the possible maps that come, you think he throws that out the window on short notice because of a patch that doesn't change the way mech plays except for raven heavy comps? If anything the patch should have made him go mech even more.
I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
On April 10 2015 23:58 GumBa wrote: What happened to this thread?
Two 3-0s on changed maps and patched maps for players who get 3-0 anyways.
Then the sault came and then the twitter fight against foreigners who have to pray for Blizzgods because sense.
In the End someone bought a Team of Koreans who cant compete in Korea and became irrelevant after WCS Change and now these players get transformed to some RPG-Streaming-Machines. But hey, lets bash foreigners who have these teamhouses, these coaches and the korean server to train each day. And earn enough to do so and not to starve.
Dude, at least keep it real. Ryung probably would have gotten smoked, but Impact had a legit shot.
He lost twice against Bio Play. Nothing has changed to the Bio-Zerg-Meta. You can argue that the third game was patch intended. But that is not enough, then Gumiho (Mec-God) played one more Bio. They got outplayed and both, Gumiho and Dark had the same patch problems. The Action of GSL was stupid (we cant fix it, lets do the patched maps), but that does not make you go all salty against foreigners because the WCS Change makes you still salty after 6month of its announcement.
This "they had the same problems" argument is bullshit. Zerg got major changes to a key unit, Terran didn't. Gumiho plays mech, constantly, Impact prepared against mech (using Swarmhost as you have to). Suddenly he can't play that style anymore and his prep ends up being worthless. Gumiho beats him. Not a single match should have been played today under those conditions. Changing the game hours before an event and giving no player any proper prep time when its a single elimination match to get to Code S is absolute nonsense and you know it.
Rest of your argument is irrelevant bullshit.
So what if the game was played pre-patch, Impact has prepared only SW strats and then gumiho goes bio?
Chances are he doesn't go bio prepatch.
That's kinda silly. Gumiho would also prepare for the series and the possible maps that come, you think he throws that out the window on short notice because of a patch that doesn't change the way mech plays except for raven heavy comps? If anything the patch should have made him go mech even more.
It's Gumi. Pretty fair chance he's right
It's more likely that it's a combination of maps + mindgame though. Maps because Iron Fortress horizontal doesn't look like it's brilliant for mech and the last time I saw Gumi mech on Overgrowth he got royally stomped because he was too greedy. Mindgames because obviously everyone expects him to go mech all the time.
And it was pretty obvious Impact was well prepared because even the first thing he did on Deadwing was scout for a proxy.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
We live in a world where TANGTANG can beat Zest and Has beat TANGTANG. I do believe in favorites, but there's a reason we play out the entire bracket instead of just giving Life another trophy.
On April 11 2015 01:16 stuchiu wrote: We live in a world where TANGTANG can beat Zest and Has beat TANGTANG. I do believe in favorites, but there's a reason we play out the entire bracket instead of just giving Life another trophy.
On April 11 2015 01:16 stuchiu wrote: We live in a world where TANGTANG can beat Zest and Has beat TANGTANG. I do believe in favorites, but there's a reason we play out the entire bracket instead of just giving Life another trophy.
You guys will never stop reminding me this right? *sigh*
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
Like I said earlier. Replace Impact with Snute and TL loses its mind. But because it's Impact and Axiom? "Eh. He would've been 3-0'd anyway"
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
Like I said earlier. Replace Impact with Snute and TL loses its mind. But because it's Impact and Axiom? "Eh. He would've been 3-0'd anyway"
Yeah man, you should never take on rookie players and try to develop them as talent, just buy the best most popular guys and the forums will defend everything you do!
Yeah I'm pretty damn sick of people that take a shit on a passion project. I know my team isn't the best, but I'm not going to drop my players into unemployment just because they can't win every event, I'm not a fucking dick.
Gentle reminder btw, Impact 2-0ed Parting like 2 days ago. Never count people out, ever.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
Pretty hard to argue with that. Imagine if you played one of yesterdays code A matches in WCS. I would be willing to bet Rain and Cure would make at least make the semifinals of WCS.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
I'm sorry but I just don't view what I said originally as inflammatory. You can hold me to account for getting into it with Morrow and Miniraiser all you please and i won't disagree with you. That was tit for tat and could have been avoided. I won't apologise for the original statement though because it was not offensive nor was it inaccurate. Korea is a fucking sharkpit right now, it has NEVER been this competitive, players should feel grateful not to be eaten in it.
Damn right I'm also annoyed that my guys have to go back and play there when they had success in WCS America (which was also very competitive until they sent all the Koreans home), my concern is for my players well being, I want them to get as much money as possible so that when they retire they will not be broke and have wasted their time. Problem is, while WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe as a tournament, it also got less viewers, so hey, what can ya do?
I will never understand why Code A can't be run like Code S and the WCS Challenger series was last year. And this isn't even an Axiom argument here. You get a guy like Billowy trying to come back and make a name for himself again, gets through the most cutthroat qualifiers known to esports and then "GG Billowy. Go face Maru". I mean, maybe if you cut the qualifiers to 16 and then go 16-16 at least you can save being one and done, more top tier SC2 is a good thing right?
On April 11 2015 01:51 showstealer1829 wrote: I will never understand why Code A can't be run like Code S and the WCS Challenger series was last year. And this isn't even an Axiom argument here. You get a guy like Billowy trying to come back and make a name for himself again, gets through the most cutthroat qualifiers known to esports and then "GG Billowy. Go face Maru". I mean, maybe if you cut the qualifiers to 16 and then go 16-16 at least you can save being one and done, more top tier SC2 is a good thing right?
Its a diceroll, pure and simple. I think the same about the Challenger league qualifiers for WCS as well. "oh hey, you just reached Challenger, grats, now play a BO5 against RandomBulgarian634 or... BOMBER!".
Dual-tournament or double elim bracket is the best way to handle this. Your Premier league aspirations should not be down to a single match. Code S certainly isnt', at least until you reach RO8 onwards.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
I'm sorry but I just don't view what I said originally as inflammatory. You can hold me to account for getting into it with Morrow and Miniraiser all you please and i won't disagree with you. That was tit for tat and could have been avoided. I won't apologise for the original statement though because it was not offensive nor was it inaccurate. Korea is a fucking sharkpit right now, it has NEVER been this competitive, players should feel grateful not to be eaten in it.
Damn right I'm also annoyed that my guys have to go back and play there when they had success in WCS America (which was also very competitive until they sent all the Koreans home), my concern is for my players well being, I want them to get as much money as possible so that when they retire they will not be broke and have wasted their time. Problem is, while WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe as a tournament, it also got less viewers, so hey, what can ya do?
I guess we can both agree that this all could have been avoided to some extent. Korea is a sharkpit no doubt, but there's also more for Koreans sharks to chew on right now, so it's not all negatives. Let's hope some foreigners decide to jump in at some point, ones better than MacSed, Jim and no-practice Scarlett
On April 11 2015 01:51 showstealer1829 wrote: I will never understand why Code A can't be run like Code S and the WCS Challenger series was last year. And this isn't even an Axiom argument here. You get a guy like Billowy trying to come back and make a name for himself again, gets through the most cutthroat qualifiers known to esports and then "GG Billowy. Go face Maru". I mean, maybe if you cut the qualifiers to 16 and then go 16-16 at least you can save being one and done, more top tier SC2 is a good thing right?
Its a diceroll, pure and simple. I think the same about the Challenger league qualifiers for WCS as well. "oh hey, you just reached Challenger, grats, now play a BO5 against RandomBulgarian634 or... BOMBER!".
Dual-tournament or double elim bracket is the best way to handle this. Your Premier league aspirations should not be down to a single match. Code S certainly isnt', at least until you reach RO8 onwards.
I think we can all agree that this needs a change. It's annoying that good players get shut down in Challenger/Code A because they didn't get a lucky draw. That's true for WCS (e.g. MarineLord is one of the best players in Europe atm but he got ForGG in Challenger and barely didn't make it in) and Code A (see Ryung who even on a better day would have had a difficult time with Dark) and obviously also SSL (e.g. INnoVation vs ByuL).
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
Like I said earlier. Replace Impact with Snute and TL loses its mind. But because it's Impact and Axiom? "Eh. He would've been 3-0'd anyway"
Yeah man, you should never take on rookie players and try to develop them as talent, just buy the best most popular guys and the forums will defend everything you do!
Yeah I'm pretty damn sick of people that take a shit on a passion project. I know my team isn't the best, but I'm not going to drop my players into unemployment just because they can't win every event, I'm not a fucking dick.
Gentle reminder btw, Impact 2-0ed Parting like 2 days ago. Never count people out, ever.
On April 11 2015 00:55 TotalBiscuit wrote: [quote]
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
I'm sorry but I just don't view what I said originally as inflammatory. You can hold me to account for getting into it with Morrow and Miniraiser all you please and i won't disagree with you. That was tit for tat and could have been avoided. I won't apologise for the original statement though because it was not offensive nor was it inaccurate. Korea is a fucking sharkpit right now, it has NEVER been this competitive, players should feel grateful not to be eaten in it.
Damn right I'm also annoyed that my guys have to go back and play there when they had success in WCS America (which was also very competitive until they sent all the Koreans home), my concern is for my players well being, I want them to get as much money as possible so that when they retire they will not be broke and have wasted their time. Problem is, while WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe as a tournament, it also got less viewers, so hey, what can ya do?
I guess we can both agree that this all could have been avoided to some extent. Korea is a sharkpit no doubt, but there's also more for Koreans sharks to chew on right now, so it's not all negatives. Let's hope some foreigners decide to jump in at some point, ones better than MacSed, Jim and no-practice Scarlett
I feel like this last part is a bit unfair. Most if not all players would have gotten trashed by Parting and Maru, foreigner or not. I think you give MacSed or Jim a different opponent and they both could have at the very least put up a fight. I think it goes back to the "luck of the draw" vs group debate more so than it does "get better foreigners". Because lets be honest, Jim and Macsed are two of the best.
On April 11 2015 01:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: [quote] I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
I'm sorry but I just don't view what I said originally as inflammatory. You can hold me to account for getting into it with Morrow and Miniraiser all you please and i won't disagree with you. That was tit for tat and could have been avoided. I won't apologise for the original statement though because it was not offensive nor was it inaccurate. Korea is a fucking sharkpit right now, it has NEVER been this competitive, players should feel grateful not to be eaten in it.
Damn right I'm also annoyed that my guys have to go back and play there when they had success in WCS America (which was also very competitive until they sent all the Koreans home), my concern is for my players well being, I want them to get as much money as possible so that when they retire they will not be broke and have wasted their time. Problem is, while WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe as a tournament, it also got less viewers, so hey, what can ya do?
I guess we can both agree that this all could have been avoided to some extent. Korea is a sharkpit no doubt, but there's also more for Koreans sharks to chew on right now, so it's not all negatives. Let's hope some foreigners decide to jump in at some point, ones better than MacSed, Jim and no-practice Scarlett
I feel like this last part is a bit unfair. Most if not all players would have gotten trashed by Parting and Maru, foreigner or not. I think you give MacSed or Jim a different opponent and they both could have at the very least put up a fight. I think it goes back to the "luck of the draw" vs group debate more so than it does "get better foreigners". Because lets be honest, Jim and Macsed are two of the best.
I have to agree, even if the foreigners had been Bunny, Snute and *insert great foreign player here*, in single elimination vs PartinG, Maru and in-form TY, you're kinda out of luck.
On April 11 2015 00:53 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I completely understand TBs frustration, but it's kind of silly to pretend like Impact wasn't gonna get 3-0'd or 3-1'd at best this series. Gumiho is just a much better player. That being said, it's complete bullshit that they make players play on the new patch and I would love to hear some justificationf or that
Its kinda silly to pretend that you can guess the outcome of a series.
I mean, I know there's a lot of varience in starcraft, i sure didn't expect innovation to lose today, but within reason you often can when one player is a massive favorite
Gumiho being the favourite in that match is questionable. Every series Impact has played in the last 6 months against Gumiho has been close. 2-3 in Leifeng Cup 72, 2-0 in Impacts favour in Januaries Olimoleague finals, 2-3 again in Leifeng Cup 48, 1-2 in Olimoleague November. If you want to talk predictions, you should look at the statistical facts. Gumiho and Impact are neck and neck over the last 6 months with Gumiho holding a slight advantage. There is nothing in those stats that says "Gumiho is going to win 3-0!" not at all. TvZ is his weakest matchup right now, so no, I dont think you can come in here and safely say "Gumiho was going to win anyway" because the stats say otherwise.
Never take results from online minor leagues too seriously. Like, we seen some crazy shit in Olimoleagues, like MKP vs Choya finals becasue you can't fully tell how hard players are trying. I mean shit, I played in Olimolleauges and got a walkover from Cure cause he didn't feel like playing then played a half decent game against Trap cause he was probably playing with one hand. It know that's different, but it just shows that Olimo is not the best place to pull results from
But this is all besides the point because we're arguing an aside from my greater point in my original post. What happened was bullshit, and it's hard to believe the players and teams would be anything but furious with GSL right now
I'll take actual stats over guessing any day of the week.
And yes, I am rightly furious about what GSL did and doubly furious at the way people in the community are acting when I know had it been a popular Korean or foreigner in that same situation they'd have pitched a fit. Why anyone expects me not to go to bat for my team I really have no idea. There is no "foreigner vs korean" drama, Morrow got salty, Miniraiser pitched a fit and Reddit ran with it, that's it.
I'm looking at your twitter right now and those tweets weren't in replay to anyone, so you certainly didn't help things. No one isn't expecting you to not go to bat for your team, but don't shit on other leagues entirely and expect drama to not happen.
Nobody shit on any league. WCS is easier than Code A, that's a fact. Hell it's easier than Olimoleague, that's also a fact. Now either you can accept that as a fact or not but it won't change the fact. WCS has 3 Koreans in it and they're not even 3 top-tier Koreans. It is even easier than WCS Europe Season 1 ink 2013 which had 4 Koreans in it. Those are all facts. That is not calling foreigners shit, that is rightfully saying they are not as good as Koreans which is not even controversial in the slightest.
When I said people should be grateful they dont have to go through Code A I fucking well meant it. Code A is completely cut-throat. There are no second chances and more often than not the Code S participants are decided based on who got the lucky mismatch. Some people get sOs and Dark and get shit all over, as you would expect. Some people get easier opponents. It's only one match and I think it's extremely flawed. It should at least be a dual-tournament format.
I agree a dual tournament would be far superior and the fact that Code A isn't a real tournament anymore is a huge let down. But to adress you previous point, I'm not tring to argue that Code A isn't super difficult, but it was unneccessary to go there and talk about it on twitter. If it were in reply to someone, you don't have to respond in a way you KNOW is gonna start drama. People are sensitive about stuff that's extremely important to their careers, that works both ways not just to you and your team
I'm sorry but I just don't view what I said originally as inflammatory. You can hold me to account for getting into it with Morrow and Miniraiser all you please and i won't disagree with you. That was tit for tat and could have been avoided. I won't apologise for the original statement though because it was not offensive nor was it inaccurate. Korea is a fucking sharkpit right now, it has NEVER been this competitive, players should feel grateful not to be eaten in it.
Damn right I'm also annoyed that my guys have to go back and play there when they had success in WCS America (which was also very competitive until they sent all the Koreans home), my concern is for my players well being, I want them to get as much money as possible so that when they retire they will not be broke and have wasted their time. Problem is, while WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe as a tournament, it also got less viewers, so hey, what can ya do?
I don't think you can say that WCS America was far superior to WCS Europe, given that MMA reached top4 in the first GSL after the recombination and YoDa and MC made it to the top-16 as well, while no WCS NA player managed to do the same.
In general I agree with your point of view though, especially given that the payout for Code A is 360 dollars, which is ridicolously low, compared to the 2k of WCS Challenger (which might be a bit of a consolation, if one would lose the 1 crucial match.) I think it wouldn't hurt to go back to the old system, having a single elim bracket with people droping down from different stages of Code S and group stages for everyone who loses. The current system makes a single match to important and stuff happening, which isn't supposed to happen get's more damage done this way.
LOLOLOLOLOL I can't believe people think that Super can beat a top Terran like Flash. That is funny. Flash is really really good right now. He will win this GSL. Mark my words.
On April 11 2015 04:22 swag_bro wrote: LOLOLOLOLOL I can't believe people think that Super can beat a top Terran like Flash. That is funny. Flash is really really good right now. He will win this GSL. Mark my words.
Oh my, what have I missed today? I was considering buying TL+ just for TB-filter but luckily the thread is short enough for "view all" and then I can just search. Next time TL, you need to try harder to get my money What I have to appreciate that even though I didn't have the time to pack lunch for the day, this has given me far enough for my daily supply of salt.
Also, TB is a total douchebag online but that doesn't mean that he isn't a total boss as well!
On April 11 2015 04:22 swag_bro wrote: LOLOLOLOLOL I can't believe people think that Super can beat a top Terran like Flash. That is funny. Flash is really really good right now. He will win this GSL. Mark my words.
soO though
soO is destined for 2nd places for all eternity now :S
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
Of course since he would die to 1 supply burrowed Roaches before
On April 11 2015 04:53 GumBa wrote: This thread was meant to be a place of tranquility to enjoy the game we all love guys. And maybe a little bit of salt. WHAT HAS THIS BECOME
On April 11 2015 04:53 GumBa wrote: This thread was meant to be a place of tranquility to enjoy the game we all love guys. And maybe a little bit of salt. WHAT HAS THIS BECOME
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
On April 11 2015 04:53 GumBa wrote: This thread was meant to be a place of tranquility to enjoy the game we all love guys. And maybe a little bit of salt. WHAT HAS THIS BECOME
LR threads... tranquility. RIIIGHTTT
TB, quick question, I see you use WCS Worlds a lot. But isn't that saying World Championship Series Worlds?
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
We've already had this conversations and the stats show your Impact argument is bullshit.
Ryung beating Dark is unlikely, but there is absolutely no need to be a disrespectful shitbag about it
Take your own advice
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
Come one, if he wouldn't be TB noone would complain about him bitching. By being a team owner, he doesn't lose his right to have an opinion. And complaining about the patch-situation seems viable to me. The whole thing with Morrow and Miniraiser - well, that is twitter drama, noone should care to much about it.
I feel, that the whole concept of "unprofessionalism" is often blown out of proportion. He probably shouldn't start picking fights from the official Axiom twitter, but as a private person, he still has the right to express his opinions; as right ("wrong information about patch is bad", "Code A harder than WCS") or as wrong ("WCS NA > WCS EU", "Nani killed his career and will never find a team again", "Round Robin not best format mankind ever created") they may be (right and wrong examples are subjectively judged by me here, I do not claim, that my opinions are always right either [Except for the Round Robin part, that is indeed the best format, mankind ever created"]).
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
We've already had this conversations and the stats show your Impact argument is bullshit.
Ryung beating Dark is unlikely, but there is absolutely no need to be a disrespectful shitbag about it
Take your own advice
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
I once got banned because my joke wasn't funny enough. :D
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
We've already had this conversations and the stats show your Impact argument is bullshit.
Ryung beating Dark is unlikely, but there is absolutely no need to be a disrespectful shitbag about it
Take your own advice
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
Heard it here first folks. Don't complain about rule changes that disadvantage your players because it doesn't matter anyway. You were going to get beat so lie there and take it.
I stand by what I said. If this was Snute and Bunny and not Impact and Ryung, the forums would've been shut down for eternity by now
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
We've already had this conversations and the stats show your Impact argument is bullshit.
Ryung beating Dark is unlikely, but there is absolutely no need to be a disrespectful shitbag about it
Take your own advice
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
Heard it here first folks. Don't complain about rule changes that disadvantage your players because it doesn't matter anyway. You were going to get beat so lie there and take it.
I stand by what I said. If this was Snute and Bunny and not Impact and Ryung, the forums would've been shut down for eternity by now
Yup. I will thoroughly discard anyones opinion who is defending GOMs actions on this one as being a result of one of the following.
Ignorance
Jealousy
Hatred
If it were a popular player affected, the pitchforks would be out, but hey, because we dont have the tip-top tier guys, it's suddenly ok to fuck us over. I dont think so. I won't stand for it. Nobody can predict the results but what is absolutely crystal clear to anyone with a functioning brain is that changing the rules hours before an event is not ok and WILL affect preparation, particularly if you're prepping a SH style against a player known to rely heavily on mech.
Those are the facts, there's no disputing them as far as I'm concerned and had I not spoken up I'd not be doing my job as a team owner, so people can take their hate and shove it up their arse.
As for the other bullshit about foreigners, as Morrow admitted in Twitch chat today, he didnt even READ the GSL tweets, he saw one tweet out of context and took offense, then Reddit ran with the rest of the argument after Miniraiser butted in with his childish bullshit. What a proud day for the forums. I'll take responsibility for perpetuating the argument, but not for starting it.
On April 11 2015 04:47 KelsierSC wrote: I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
as if ryung or impact would have advanced today anyway. dark could beat ryung on steppes of war with warhounds in the game.
We've already had this conversations and the stats show your Impact argument is bullshit.
Ryung beating Dark is unlikely, but there is absolutely no need to be a disrespectful shitbag about it
Take your own advice
I really wish people would keep their offensive and obnoxious posting to reddit.
It's not disrespectful to say Dark is better than Ryung, i'm allowed to make jokes LR is a pretty light hearted place.
I'm really happy that Dark got through he is one of my favourite players and Gumiho is an awesome, entertaining Terran who will be a great addition to the GSL.
Unfortunately you completely killed the buzz here by bitching up a storm , which was rather unprofessional from a team manager.
If you want to do that shit on reddit then be my guest but It's kind of sad to see you using a TL LR thread for that purpose.
Heard it here first folks. Don't complain about rule changes that disadvantage your players because it doesn't matter anyway. You were going to get beat so lie there and take it.
I stand by what I said. If this was Snute and Bunny and not Impact and Ryung, the forums would've been shut down for eternity by now
GOM were absolutely in the wrong here , I am not disputing that fact.
However what I am disappointed with is the reaction of the Axiom manager and the method he selected to air his grievances.
In my opinion the correct way would be to email GOM about the situation and ask them to issue a statement of an apology or something similar. If they decline or make no contact then make a thread explaining the facts. 1) GOMtv told the players that the maps would be an older version 2) On the day of the match this was not the case and they had to play on the patched version 3) for whatever reason this was worse for the axiom players than everyone else.
I think that is the professional way of doing things and would have been the correct PR move for his team and it stops the LR thread becoming ...whatever this is.
The unprofessional method is to immediately come into this thread and reddit, insult every foreign player, start crying like a baby , ruin the atmosphere of the thread and then get into twitter fights with random starcraft personalities. hijacking the communtiy to deliberately create a "pitchfork" response is a disgusting move.
On April 11 2015 21:03 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Axiom just get their players visa? I mean if a small team like Root can do it for hydra, surely Axiom can do it as well?
hydra has given up his home and life in Korea and TB wants his players to get the same opportunity by sacrificing nothing? Not really fair
So what you're saying is that it's fair that the only chance to play in WCS is to leave basically everything you know and love behind and go to another country? He doesn't want the "same opportunity by sacrificing nothing" for his players, he wants the sacrifice itselfgone because he thinks it's stupid that players have to make these sacrifices if they want to play in WCS.
On April 11 2015 21:03 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Axiom just get their players visa? I mean if a small team like Root can do it for hydra, surely Axiom can do it as well?
hydra has given up his home and life in Korea and TB wants his players to get the same opportunity by sacrificing nothing? Not really fair
Because we have a fucking team-house and Hydra didnt. Plus have you ever considered that our guys might not want to uproot and move to America? 3 of them can barely speak a word of English for gods sake.
The unprofessional method is to immediately come into this thread and reddit, insult every foreign player, start crying like a baby , ruin the atmosphere of the thread and then get into twitter fights with random starcraft personalities. hijacking the communtiy to deliberately create a "pitchfork" response is a disgusting move.
Yeaaah fuck off with this. The only pitchforking going on is coming from people like you and Reddit who turned this into a giant shitfest that had nothing to do with the original grievance.
A manager who does not advocate and use everything at his disposal to demand justice for his players is a shitty manager and if you thought I "insulted every foreign player" you have a paper-thin skin.
WCS is easier than Code A is not an insult, it's a fact. Saying foreigners should be grateful that Blizzard finally catered to them with a big money tournament rather than what they've been doing the last few years is not controversial and I stand by the sentiment. If SC2 was an actual meritocracy, Blizzard wouldnt do that, but they threw you a bone, least you can do is show some damn solidarity for the players who have a much harder time of it trying to survive in the sharkpit that is Korean eSports right now, who are practicing 10 hours a day just to barely keep their head above water in an environment so competitive that people like Zest and sOo can lose in the qualifiers.
So feel free to continue to misinterpret what I said after I clarified it, but that just makes you look like an idiot.
On April 11 2015 21:03 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Axiom just get their players visa? I mean if a small team like Root can do it for hydra, surely Axiom can do it as well?
hydra has given up his home and life in Korea and TB wants his players to get the same opportunity by sacrificing nothing? Not really fair
Because we have a fucking team-house and Hydra didnt. Plus have you ever considered that our guys might not want to uproot and move to America? 3 of them can barely speak a word of English for gods sake.
The unprofessional method is to immediately come into this thread and reddit, insult every foreign player, start crying like a baby , ruin the atmosphere of the thread and then get into twitter fights with random starcraft personalities. hijacking the communtiy to deliberately create a "pitchfork" response is a disgusting move.
Yeaaah fuck off with this. The only pitchforking going on is coming from people like you and Reddit who turned this into a giant shitfest that had nothing to do with the original grievance.
A manager who does not advocate and use everything at his disposal to demand justice for his players is a shitty manager and if you thought I "insulted every foreign player" you have a paper-thin skin.
WCS is easier than Code A is not an insult, it's a fact. Saying foreigners should be grateful that Blizzard finally catered to them with a big money tournament rather than what they've been doing the last few years is not controversial and I stand by the sentiment. If SC2 was an actual meritocracy, Blizzard wouldnt do that, but they threw you a bone, least you can do is show some damn solidarity for the players who have a much harder time of it trying to survive in the sharkpit that is Korean eSports right now, who are practicing 10 hours a day just to barely keep their head above water in an environment so competitive that people like Zest and sOo can lose in the qualifiers.
So feel free to continue to misinterpret what I said after I clarified it, but that just makes you look like an idiot.
Pretty sure CJ has a bigger teamhouse than Axiom LOL
On April 11 2015 21:03 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Axiom just get their players visa? I mean if a small team like Root can do it for hydra, surely Axiom can do it as well?
hydra has given up his home and life in Korea and TB wants his players to get the same opportunity by sacrificing nothing? Not really fair
Because we have a fucking team-house and Hydra didnt. Plus have you ever considered that our guys might not want to uproot and move to America? 3 of them can barely speak a word of English for gods sake.
The unprofessional method is to immediately come into this thread and reddit, insult every foreign player, start crying like a baby , ruin the atmosphere of the thread and then get into twitter fights with random starcraft personalities. hijacking the communtiy to deliberately create a "pitchfork" response is a disgusting move.
Yeaaah fuck off with this. The only pitchforking going on is coming from people like you and Reddit who turned this into a giant shitfest that had nothing to do with the original grievance.
A manager who does not advocate and use everything at his disposal to demand justice for his players is a shitty manager and if you thought I "insulted every foreign player" you have a paper-thin skin.
WCS is easier than Code A is not an insult, it's a fact. Saying foreigners should be grateful that Blizzard finally catered to them with a big money tournament rather than what they've been doing the last few years is not controversial and I stand by the sentiment. If SC2 was an actual meritocracy, Blizzard wouldnt do that, but they threw you a bone, least you can do is show some damn solidarity for the players who have a much harder time of it trying to survive in the sharkpit that is Korean eSports right now, who are practicing 10 hours a day just to barely keep their head above water in an environment so competitive that people like Zest and sOo can lose in the qualifiers.
So feel free to continue to misinterpret what I said after I clarified it, but that just makes you look like an idiot.
I don't really care about the foreign scene to be honest. There was a professional and mature method of approaching the disagreement with GOM which I outlined. That would have been the best way for both parties to handle it.
Then there is what you did. You can say what you like about "demanding justice" or whatever but all you've managed to do is damage your brand and reputation.
anyway I have nothing more to say on the matter, looking forward to seeing quality GSL players in code S. go go dark and Flash!
On April 11 2015 21:03 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Axiom just get their players visa? I mean if a small team like Root can do it for hydra, surely Axiom can do it as well?
hydra has given up his home and life in Korea and TB wants his players to get the same opportunity by sacrificing nothing? Not really fair
Because we have a fucking team-house and Hydra didnt. Plus have you ever considered that our guys might not want to uproot and move to America? 3 of them can barely speak a word of English for gods sake.
The unprofessional method is to immediately come into this thread and reddit, insult every foreign player, start crying like a baby , ruin the atmosphere of the thread and then get into twitter fights with random starcraft personalities. hijacking the communtiy to deliberately create a "pitchfork" response is a disgusting move.
Yeaaah fuck off with this. The only pitchforking going on is coming from people like you and Reddit who turned this into a giant shitfest that had nothing to do with the original grievance.
A manager who does not advocate and use everything at his disposal to demand justice for his players is a shitty manager and if you thought I "insulted every foreign player" you have a paper-thin skin.
WCS is easier than Code A is not an insult, it's a fact. Saying foreigners should be grateful that Blizzard finally catered to them with a big money tournament rather than what they've been doing the last few years is not controversial and I stand by the sentiment. If SC2 was an actual meritocracy, Blizzard wouldnt do that, but they threw you a bone, least you can do is show some damn solidarity for the players who have a much harder time of it trying to survive in the sharkpit that is Korean eSports right now, who are practicing 10 hours a day just to barely keep their head above water in an environment so competitive that people like Zest and sOo can lose in the qualifiers.
So feel free to continue to misinterpret what I said after I clarified it, but that just makes you look like an idiot.
Hydra, who was a CJ player, didn't have a teamhouse? Really?... And do you really think that Hydra knew a word of english before he joined ROOT?
On April 11 2015 22:20 OtherWorld wrote: Hydra, who was a CJ player, didn't have a teamhouse? Really?... And do you really think that Hydra knew a word of english before he joined ROOT?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that clueless?
Hydra, joined ROOT. Hydra, before going to America, was NOT living in a teamhouse. Even if he were living in a teamhouse and was still part of CJ (which he wasnt, he left CJ 3 weeks before joining ROOT), CJ would be just fine continuing to operate their teamhouse without him there.
So, with the teamhouse that we currently have a signed lease to, your grand suggestion is that we move all of our players to America, presumably to a second teamhouse (which currently doesn't exist), while continuing to pay for the first teamhouse which is now empty besides our two guests from Dead Pixels.
Flawless plan. I cannot imagine why we don't immediately consult you for advice on how to run a Korean eSports team.
Pretty sure CJ has a bigger teamhouse than Axiom LOL
Number of CJ players currently living in the US - Zero.
Now I'm convinced you guys are just pretending to be that stupid, because it requires an astonishing lack of common sense to post something this dumb.
On April 11 2015 22:20 OtherWorld wrote: Hydra, who was a CJ player, didn't have a teamhouse? Really?... And do you really think that Hydra knew a word of english before he joined ROOT?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that clueless?
Hydra, joined ROOT. Hydra, before going to America, was NOT living in a teamhouse. Even if he were living in a teamhouse and was still part of CJ (which he wasnt, he left CJ 3 weeks before joining ROOT), CJ would be just fine continuing to operate their teamhouse without him there.
So, with the teamhouse that we currently have a signed lease to, your grand suggestion is that we move all of our players to America, presumably to a second teamhouse (which currently doesn't exist), while continuing to pay for the first teamhouse which is now empty besides our two guests from Dead Pixels.
Flawless plan. I cannot imagine why we don't immediately consult you for advice on how to run a Korean eSports team.
Hey you just found your solution! It's a better plan than your current one at least. All your player would earn thousands of dollars, get lots of reputation and you'd have no reason to blame GSL for your players' losses.
On April 11 2015 22:20 OtherWorld wrote: Hydra, who was a CJ player, didn't have a teamhouse? Really?... And do you really think that Hydra knew a word of english before he joined ROOT?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that clueless?
Hydra, joined ROOT. Hydra, before going to America, was NOT living in a teamhouse. Even if he were living in a teamhouse and was still part of CJ (which he wasnt, he left CJ 3 weeks before joining ROOT), CJ would be just fine continuing to operate their teamhouse without him there.
So, with the teamhouse that we currently have a signed lease to, your grand suggestion is that we move all of our players to America, presumably to a second teamhouse (which currently doesn't exist), while continuing to pay for the first teamhouse which is now empty besides our two guests from Dead Pixels.
Flawless plan. I cannot imagine why we don't immediately consult you for advice on how to run a Korean eSports team.
Hey you just found your solution! It's a better plan than your current one at least. All your player would earn thousands of dollars, get lots of reputation and you'd have no reason to blame GSL for your players' losses.
Come back to me when you've run a team for a while and we can talk about your feelings then. Until that time, you might want to stop talking, since you are completely clueless.
On April 11 2015 22:20 OtherWorld wrote: Hydra, who was a CJ player, didn't have a teamhouse? Really?... And do you really think that Hydra knew a word of english before he joined ROOT?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just that clueless?
Hydra, joined ROOT. Hydra, before going to America, was NOT living in a teamhouse. Even if he were living in a teamhouse and was still part of CJ (which he wasnt, he left CJ 3 weeks before joining ROOT), CJ would be just fine continuing to operate their teamhouse without him there.
So, with the teamhouse that we currently have a signed lease to, your grand suggestion is that we move all of our players to America, presumably to a second teamhouse (which currently doesn't exist), while continuing to pay for the first teamhouse which is now empty besides our two guests from Dead Pixels.
Flawless plan. I cannot imagine why we don't immediately consult you for advice on how to run a Korean eSports team.
Pretty sure CJ has a bigger teamhouse than Axiom LOL
Number of CJ players currently living in the US - Zero.
Now I'm convinced you guys are just pretending to be that stupid, because it requires an astonishing lack of common sense to post something this dumb.
My grand suggestion is none, since I don't run your team^^ All I am saying is that, sharkie said that Hydra gave up his life and home in Korea to compete in WCS, and asked why Axiom couldn't do the same if you wanted to. You answered by saying that it's because you have a teamhouse while hydra didn't, which I admit is a fair point if you're talking from a team-owner perspective and not from a player perspective. Now that doesn't change anything to the fact that Hydra still had to abandon his life and home, and practice environment, thus if you want to compete in WCS it would be fair that you do the same and move your teamhouse to foreign lands - once your contract for the current teamhouse is over, although since I obviously don't know the details I'm not sure if that'd be possible.
And please, unless you are answering to someone who straight-up insulted you (like some did, i admit), it'd be nice from you to avoid insults. Besides, the fact that zero CJ players live in the US has literally nothing to do with CJ's teamhouse being probably bigger than Axiom's.
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Dark vs 
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