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On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead
You have to realize that if Terran had scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing.
Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players.
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Shine bringing home my first positive points, I still Believe!
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On December 30 2014 20:50 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:49 SmoKim wrote:Do you get extra point if on on your FPL gets MVP award  ? If you do, then you should get -1 for the warning too.
nobody would put marineking on their team then
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 30 2014 20:51 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:50 rotta wrote:On December 30 2014 20:49 SmoKim wrote:Do you get extra point if on on your FPL gets MVP award ? If you do, then you should get -1 for the warning too. nobody would put marineking on their team then
MarineKing is my captain. I will stand with his warnings proudly.
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On December 30 2014 20:46 ANLProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:45 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:44 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:33 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:29 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:23 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:18 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 20:17 The_Templar wrote:
[quote]
1:00
Shine makes a drone. Disappointed already.
Shine drones to 10, stops, and then makes an overlord, just to tease everyone.
Extractor trick --> more drones for Shine.
Creator getting a pylon.
2:00
15 pool for Shine, quickly followed by a hatchery.
Creator going nexus first.
3:00
Gateway + 2 gas for Creator.
Shine moving out with his first four zerglings.
Creator getting a cybernetics core.
4:00
Creator has no units, of course, but a zealot finishes in time.
Shine is on just 18 drones but is taking his third.
A few probes are pulled to deal with the zerglings.
Creator scouts the third base of Shine.
5:00
Stalker for Creator.
Shine scouting with his overlord.
Stalker for Creator.
Creator getting a stargate which is seen by a scouting overlord.
6:00 Shine pauses the game! Apparently his "evil" settings are not properly aligned! 6:00 Phoenix for Creator. Shine has no drones at his third, so Creator's attempts at zealot harass are shut down. Creator getting a second gateway as well as a forge. 7:00  Shine 60 vs  Creator 56 Two more gateways for Creator. Creator getting more phoenixes. Shine moving out with 12 zerglings. Roach warren for Creator. Spore crawlers for Shine. 8:00 Shine 69 vs Creator 70 Phoenixes looking around Shine's base, killing an overlord. Robotics facility for Creator. +1 attack for Creator. Shine getting +1 ranged attacks and roach speed. Zergling speed finishing for Shine. 9:00 Shine 84 vs Creator 76 Robotics facility finishes for Creator. Shine tries a zergling runby as Creator takes his third but it's denied. Twilight council and robotics bay on the way for Creator. Shine moving out with roaches. Phoenixes are picking up the roaches of Shine. 10:00 Shine 86 vs Creator 92 Spire and infestation pit for Shine. Creator is lifting roaches with his phoenixes. Shine pauses again hahahaha 10:45 Shine 104 vs Creator 107 Phoenixes are still looking around. Swarm hosts for Shine. One phoenix dies. 11:00 Shine 116 vs Creator 111 Fourth base for Shine. Creator moving out with some gateway units and a void ray. Swarm hosts finish. +2 attack and extended thermal lance for Creator. 12:00 Shine 117 vs Creator118 +1 air attacks and +1/1 melee for Shine. Locusts begin spawning for Shine. Three gateways on the way for Creator. Robotics facility on the way for Creator. Creator adding another stargate. Phoenixes still harass, but don't do much in the face of 6 queens. 13:00 Shine 129 vs Creator 131 Creator going for Shine's back door. Shine getting spine crawlers in at his natural and positioning locusts there. Shine has corrupters. +3 attack for Creator. Hive for Shine. Creator catches and kills some zerglings. Shine nearly kills the MSC but the entire army of Creator recalls. Fourth base for Creator. 14:00 Shine 139 vs Creator 153 Shine has only a little creep spread. More corrupters and swarm hosts for Shine. Creator getting three void rays at a time, as well as +1 air attack. 15:00 Shine 158 vs Creator 175 Burrow for Shine as well as +1 air armor. Corrupters are looking around and find a warp prism, but it survives. Fleet beacon for Creator. +2/2 melee starts for shine. Locusts damage the shields of a colossus. 16:00 Shine 177 vs Creator 188 Creator is sitting between his third and fourth, Shine is at his fourth base. Mothership being made out of the mothership core, which Shine sees. Fifth base for Shine. Warp prism going for Shine's main base. 17:00 Shine 187 vs Creator 192 More zealots being warped in. The spire is focused and killed. A second spire is cancelled and the infestation pit dies. Creator taking a fifth base. 18:00 Shine 195 vs Creator 189 Creator moving out with his laser army of void rays and colossi. A tempest is being added on. Creator getting a dark shrine. Shine cancels the fifth base and runs towards the natural but a zealot is there. Shine gets into Creator's third and kills some probes. 19:00 Shine 173 vs Creator 185 Ultralisk cavern is finished for Shine, so he starts another ultralisk cavern next to it. +3/3 for Shine. +2/2 air for Shine as well. The second ultralisk cavern actually finishes. 20:00 Shine 170 vs Creator 200 Shine has only spread a small radius of creep outside his five bases. Creator tries to harass with stalkers but runs into 4 spine crawlers. 9 drones die somewhere. Baneling speed (!) for Shine. Creator is up to three tempests. 21:00 Shine 191 vs Creator 174 Creator tries running into the fourth but the mothership is abducted and recalled. Shine morphs banelings near Creator's backdoor natural. Banelings get into the natural but there are only a few probes there so they're largely wasted. 23:00 Shine 200 (4500/2500) vs Creator 197 (2500/950) A viper is feedbacked. Creator moving out to the center again. Both players are still on five bases, with neither backdoor base taken yet. Creator loses an archon. Shine looks like he wants to try something with his corrupters. Shine taking his backdoor base. An infestor is being added to Shine's army. Fungal on all of creator's HTs. 25:00 Shine 198 (6600/4000) vs Creator 184 (3700/1100) +3/3 air and +3 ground armor for Creator. Creator moving behind Shine's bottom left base with his entire army. Shine only has 16 corrupters. Two tempests are abducted and quickly killed. 15 banelings are being morphed. Creator takes his 6th base as well. 27:00 Shine 189 (8000/5000) vs Creator 194 (2700/1500) Shine runs into Creator's upper right base with a bunch of banelings and zerglings, killing it as well as 22 workers. +3 shields starts for Creator. Creator kills Shine's 6th base. +3/3 air is half done for Shine but done for Creator. Shine getting more corrupters. Shine is retaking his 6th base. Mothership being rebuilt for Creator. Another tempest is abducted and storms are ignored as it dies. +3 ranged attacks for Shine. Creator re-taking the upper right base. 29:00 Shine 200 (8300/5600) vs Creator 199 (1900/900) Creator tries harassing Shine's lower left base with stalkers but they all die at almost no gain. Creator has 20 voi rays. Creator going for the lower left base with his mass void rays. Fungals go on a lot of the voids, and most of them die. Shine is up to 24 corrupters, but only has 7 infestors. 31:00 Shine 195 vs Creator 195 Shine morphing more banelings near Creator's upper right base. Creator's army goes near the lower left base of Shine and he starts attacking it. Mothership at Creator's 6th is abducted and killed. Infestors show up at the lower left base and fungal some units, killin them with corrupters. Creator loses all but one colossus. Creator loses the upper right base again. Shine is still on the same corrupter/SH/infestor army. 33:00 Shine 174 (10700/7400) vs Creator 172 (1000/600) Mothership being rebuilt for Creator. Shine loses a viper near the 6th of Creator. Creator tries harassing with stalkers but fails to do damage with them. More void rays are abducted and killed. A DT is killing banelings lol. Shine goes for Creator's center base where there's only two pylons powering 6 cannons. 35:00 Shine 185 (10200/8500) vs Creator 191 (1100/450) Creator still trying to make a dent in Shine's bases. Creator lost his center base and upper right base again. Infested terrans take the lower left watchtower. More infestors and vipers for Shine. Shine morphing more banelings. Mothership is abducted. All of Creator's units are fungalled and they take heavy damage. Shine engages the army but doesn't actually have enough brute force to break through the core of the army. 37:00 Shine 186 (9000/6900) vs Creator 138 (1100/50) Shine crashing into the third base with a lot of banelings and zerglings. Creator's army is being whittled down with fungals and corrupters. Creator GG's! Samsung wins 3-1! Templar you must have so much passion to commentate on a SH game.
sooner or later he will elaborate on the path of each locust
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On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players.
Broods are nowhere near as weak as you depict them against bio play. They only add nothing/little against mech into air since Terran is already aiming at a composition which can handle them anyway.
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Sojung's hair is also cute!
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Shine on main, Creator an Anti. Today is a good day so far
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On December 30 2014 20:53 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players. Broods are nowhere near as weak as you depict them against bio play. They only add nothing/little against mech into air since Terran is already aiming at a composition which can handle them anyway.
They are quite weak if you are prepared well for them, where Ultras are always good if you manage to get to them(against Bio that is). And it is definitely easier to get to Ultras than to Brood Lords unless you are playing that Dark's ZvT style and you already have some Corruptors from Lair tech, but even then you are getting Ultras faster.
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On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran had scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players.
well you are assuming the Zerg doesn't protect the BLs
While there are corruptors and other tools to protect them. If BL were so helpless, BL Infestor dominating the end of the WoL era wouldn't be a thing. And Terran didn't get better tools against it so its still vaible... not even that, its still extremely strong
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On December 30 2014 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players. Broods are nowhere near as weak as you depict them against bio play. They only add nothing/little against mech into air since Terran is already aiming at a composition which can handle them anyway. They are quite weak if you are prepared well for them, where Ultras are always good if you manage to get to them(against Bio that is). And it is definitely easier to get to Ultras than to Brood Lords unless you are playing that Dark's ZvT style and you already have some Corruptors from Lair tech, but even then you are getting Ultras faster.
What does it mean to be prepared well for them?
You cannot just prepare for BLs, especially because its not the Meta anymore.
O forgot the compared upgrades, that is different now ofc.
But when you go bio, you don't benefit from combined mech upgrades, so its still extremely strong vs BIO especially with fungal
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Before each and every game, Shine eats a whole live kitten, and spits out its crunchy, indigestible bones in the form of Shine pellets, which he brushes under his mousepad.
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On December 30 2014 21:00 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players. Broods are nowhere near as weak as you depict them against bio play. They only add nothing/little against mech into air since Terran is already aiming at a composition which can handle them anyway. They are quite weak if you are prepared well for them, where Ultras are always good if you manage to get to them(against Bio that is). And it is definitely easier to get to Ultras than to Brood Lords unless you are playing that Dark's ZvT style and you already have some Corruptors from Lair tech, but even then you are getting Ultras faster. What does it mean to be prepared well for them? You cannot just prepare for BLs, especially because its not the Meta anymore. O forgot the compared upgrades, that is different now ofc. But when you go bio, you don't benefit from combined mech upgrades, so its still extremely strong vs BIO especially with fungal
Is this assuming the terran stays on bio mine until the late game?
Eventually when terran gets upgrade for the hellbats/tanks/mines, the vikings will have the +3 weapon upgrades, and all terran has to do is to switch to pump out vikings from two reactors. The only way terran can lose to this is when he doesn't scout it until it hits.
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If only StarTale-Yoe had jackets ... they all look like they're freezing, especially Life.
Edit: ah whoops, wrong thread.
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Bisutopia19332 Posts
This season of FPL I am forcing Shine to give me points. Muhahahahahaha.
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Norway25712 Posts
oh right you have two threads for these
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Haha I love how the next Match just showed again how strong BL can be, even in ZvP
And Fungals as well.
Finally its coming back. I always thought "why did it disappear it can be EXTREMELY strong in some situations"
And that is what keeps curious alive for 20 mins now...
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On December 30 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 20:46 Rollora wrote:On December 30 2014 20:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On December 30 2014 20:37 Rollora wrote:
Fungals are still sick good, its pure lazyness and having even better tools, that Zergs don't use it on a regular base anymore... so are Brood Lords Brood Lords aren't good... They are kind of one-trick pony unit, where you can just do some timing attack if opponent didn't scout them or didn't prepare well enough. The moment you have 3+ Tempests, Brood Lords are useless. Same goes against Terran if he makes like ~10 Vikings if he scouts your Broods. That part with the one trick pony is true. But as Shown yesterday, destroying a lot of the terran while forcing him into making lots of vikings, having a lot of useless supply in the air afterwards can help and improve the lead You have to realize that if Terran had scouted those Brood Lords on time(in two games if I remember correctly), it would be over for Zerg as he would commit a lot of resources and supply to make something that will get destroyed in 10 seconds and will do almost nothing. Indeed, it forced Terrans to make Vikings while Zergs were banking resources and just made an Ultralisk switch, but as I said it worked only because of bad scouting from Terran players.
No lol, do you even watch or play lategame TvZ at all?
You can try to twist it as much as you want, but the fact of the matter remains that Zerg tech switch >>>> Terran response because of the larva inject mechanic.
It only takes ~30 seconds for broodlords to morph, and ~70 seconds total from larva -> corruptors -> broodlords. That's not nearly enough time to get out enough tempests or vikings. You would need to preemptively build 4+ stargates/starports in anticipation of a broodlord switch upon seeing a greater spire, in which case the zerg doesn't need to build any broodlords at all if no "bad scouting from Zerg players". In an even game, this put you behind both in terms of resources and multitasking.
And even if the T player did annihilate all broodlords with a cloud of vikings, they don't NEED to scout for an ultra switch because they should KNOW that it is coming 99% of the time. The problem still lies within the fact that ultra/bane/hydra will be in your face in 2 minutes, but again in an even game, you won't have enough time/resources to preemptively make those 10+ barracks with tech labs and to get out the 20 or so marauders required to deal with ultra/bane. To exacerbate the issue further, you would need to sacrifice all your vikings (trading very inefficiently) in order to free up supply - not exactly something you want as Terran as the Zerg should have a much larger bank than you do.
Just go dig through some late game TvZs involving broodlords into ultras; the Terran usually wins if he's already ahead and prepared well for the switch, but loses if the game is relatively even due to a lack of marauders.
TL;DR: When relatively even, broodlords into ultras is a pretty good way to get ahead or end the game for the zerg due to the abuse of the larva inject mechanic.
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Dammit journey you're the one on my FPL don't lose >:O
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EPT
