★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (12)
57%
★★★- Good game (2)
10%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
19%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
21 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Flash vs PartinG?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (3)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (9)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Soulkey?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (9)
64%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
29%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
7%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Stats vs Rain?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
7%
★★★- Good game (5)
18%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
54%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (5)
18%
28 total votes
Your vote: Recommend TY vs soO?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (8)
57%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Ace Match?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
These proleague behind the scenes are fucking hilarious, I just wish they did more of this content for SC2, last year's PL had some really awesome production value via all the video interviews from all the teams, the notable players, the team houses, all the hype videos in between each round etc.
On June 23 2014 20:26 ETisME wrote: really dislike how people use stop to last hit creeps, move around and attack at the right moment is far safer and harder for opponent to predict
Yeah I was wondering what she was doing with that, I've only ever played LoL, and that's how you do it there.
On June 23 2014 20:26 ETisME wrote: really dislike how people use stop to last hit creeps, move around and attack at the right moment is far safer and harder for opponent to predict
Yeah I was wondering what she was doing with that, I've only ever played LoL, and that's how you do it there.
I guess she's meant to be bad at the game though?
It's a popular alt method to last hit, but I just don't get why. It kinda helps you to get the feel of attack animation and the actual damage being delivered?
But I just dislike it, I find moving around is a far better choice
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
Yeah it used to be at like 1 KST I think, was easier for me to watch.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
Yeah it used to be at like 1 KST I think, was easier for me to watch.
Same. Was perfect. Pretty much exactly as I'd get home from work everyday.
Now I can generally only watch the first match of the night.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
Last year it started at 5 AM CEST.
I don't think the starting time in Europe is relevant to the live crowd ^^
That said, the start time being 6 hours later this year has probably enabled a lot of Koreans to come after work/school.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
On June 23 2014 20:40 Lunareste wrote: so glad sc2 is getting bigger, these crowds compared to last year LOL
didn't they change the time though? Like half an hour earleir or something so people can go home with the public transportation. (Not entirely sure, someone backs this up/disproves it)
I think it's a couple hours later than it was last year.. If i'm remembering correctly.
Last year it started at 5 AM CEST.
I don't think the starting time in Europe is relevant to the live crowd ^^
That said, the start time being 6 hours later this year has probably enabled a lot of Koreans to come after work/school.
Ah so it was the other way around. Makes sense for the Korean crowd though. And for me it s right during my lunch break which is kinda good :=)
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (12)
57%
★★★- Good game (2)
10%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
19%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
21 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Flash vs PartinG?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On June 23 2014 20:51 Phredxor wrote: Didn't need to take that fight really. He pushed Parting back a tiny bit, enough to save the CC, should have backed off then
Yeah i dont know why he kept running on the forcefields the base was lifted anyways
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
thats what i wanna know...i know partings super good and...protoss and stuff but...it feels like flash would be way behind even if he didn't take that fight....i don't get this....bunkers would have helped but range was done and he wouldn't have been to take his 3rd for ages....
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
FFs (also he didnt have 1/1 iirc)
Spare the balance whining please; also, he did have double forge and 1/1 on the way (i think they completed during the fight after flash was already dead)
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
FFs (also he didnt have 1/1 iirc)
Spare the balance whining please; also, he did have double forge and 1/1 on the way (i think they completed during the fight after flash was already dead)
But FF's did win that fight. Flash should've pulled back
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
FFs (also he didnt have 1/1 iirc)
Spare the balance whining please; also, he did have double forge and 1/1 on the way (i think they completed during the fight after flash was already dead)
But FF's did win that fight. Flash should've pulled back
Yeha but as i said i was away, and if someone replies with just "ff's" what else am i going to think?
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
FFs (also he didnt have 1/1 iirc)
Spare the balance whining please; also, he did have double forge and 1/1 on the way (i think they completed during the fight after flash was already dead)
It was no balance whining, wth mate. and he didnt have 1/1 when it mattered, so i dont kinda get your response.
edit: i guess the scarlett game left a bad taste on TL. edit2: doesnt matter , the games are too awesome today to get stuck in discussions i guess.
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
thats what i wanna know...i know partings super good and...protoss and stuff but...it feels like flash would be way behind even if he didn't take that fight....i don't get this....bunkers would have helped but range was done and he wouldn't have been to take his 3rd for ages....
He made all those medivacs and vikings too late, Parting got a fast colossus build and Flash did not scouted. edit: Also Parting picked free units retreating, and forcefields were good.
On June 23 2014 20:49 Teoita wrote: Wtf happened so far? I just tuned back in
Flash decided that bunkers aren't necessary when there's 2 base colossus knocking on your door
How did parting have a third, 1/1 and blink on the way while still killing flash other than no bunkers?
FFs (also he didnt have 1/1 iirc)
Spare the balance whining please; also, he did have double forge and 1/1 on the way (i think they completed during the fight after flash was already dead)
It was no balance whining, wth mate. and he didnt have 1/1 when it mattered, so i dont kinda get your response.
It was balance whine, hidden in a short comment as to avoid moderation, but it was a balance complaint nonetheless.
On June 23 2014 20:55 DJHelium wrote: I still consider Soulkey to be the best zerg in the world (over soO), didn't watch the games vs Maru though.
Is he still number one or has soO claimed that spot? Three GSL finals is impressive.
Soulkey struggles occassionally in ZvP nowdays and soO just simply doesn't have weak matchup, it's hilariously good. Eo Yoon Su just doesn't care, so he's probably best right now.
On June 23 2014 20:55 DJHelium wrote: I still consider Soulkey to be the best zerg in the world (over soO), didn't watch the games vs Maru though.
Is he still number one or has soO claimed that spot? Three GSL finals is impressive.
Soulkey struggles occassionally in ZvP nowdays and soO just simply doesn't have weak matchup, it's hilariously good. Eo Yoon Su just doesn't care, so he's probably best right now.
Yeah I guess he is. It's just that he doesn't give me the convincing feeling the zerg who's the best usually does (Nestea, DongRaeGu, Life and Soulkey all had it).
He does feel solid though, gives me more of a Curious kind of vibe.
On June 23 2014 20:55 DJHelium wrote: I still consider Soulkey to be the best zerg in the world (over soO), didn't watch the games vs Maru though.
Is he still number one or has soO claimed that spot? Three GSL finals is impressive.
Soulkey struggles occassionally in ZvP nowdays and soO just simply doesn't have weak matchup, it's hilariously good. Eo Yoon Su just doesn't care, so he's probably best right now.
Yeah I guess he is. It's just that he doesn't give me the convincing feeling the zerg who's the best usually does (Nestea, DongRaeGu, Life and Soulkey all had it).
He does feel solid though, gives me more of a Curious kind of vibe.
Sorry for rambling :p
Soulkey mechanics are too perfect while Nestea, DRG and Life play a more flashy style. I think SoO is not a "hardcore skill" player like Life, SoO is good micro, good macro, very good preparation and smart play and not a single weakness.
On June 23 2014 20:55 DJHelium wrote: I still consider Soulkey to be the best zerg in the world (over soO), didn't watch the games vs Maru though.
Is he still number one or has soO claimed that spot? Three GSL finals is impressive.
Soulkey struggles occassionally in ZvP nowdays and soO just simply doesn't have weak matchup, it's hilariously good. Eo Yoon Su just doesn't care, so he's probably best right now.
Yeah I guess he is. It's just that he doesn't give me the convincing feeling the zerg who's the best usually does (Nestea, DongRaeGu, Life and Soulkey all had it).
He does feel solid though, gives me more of a Curious kind of vibe.
Sorry for rambling :p
Soulkey mechanics are too perfect while Nestea, DRG and Life play a more flashy style. I think SoO is not a "hardcore skill" player like Life, SoO is good micro, good macro, very good preparation and smart play and not a single weakness.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (3)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (9)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Soulkey?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
soulkey made the critical mistake of forgetting that 2 base blink stalkers are never over until the last nexus dies edit: what an awful start to 4 potentially great matches
On June 23 2014 21:16 sparklyresidue wrote: soulkey made the critical mistake of forgetting that 2 base blink stalkers are never over until the last nexus dies edit: what an awful start to 4 potentially great matches
Parting played quite well, almost no one denies scouting this hard.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
11%
★★★- Good game (3)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (9)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
6%
18 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Zest vs Soulkey?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On June 23 2014 21:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What happened that game, I totally fell asleep at my chair?
The first part of the all-in failed pretty hard against lings and roaches. SK managed to clean up all Zests pylons.
Zest falls back and then comes back harder with more pylons. By then SK had burrow (No robo for Zest) but skipped lings. Zest just overran him with too many stalkers and zealots despite the burrow.
On June 23 2014 21:16 sparklyresidue wrote: soulkey made the critical mistake of forgetting that 2 base blink stalkers are never over until the last nexus dies edit: what an awful start to 4 potentially great matches
Parting played quite well, almost no one denies scouting this hard.
it was still an awful match, flash just insta-died. i never watch SC2 hoping for games like these.
On June 23 2014 21:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What happened that game, I totally fell asleep at my chair?
Soulkey overextended for no reason at all, and lost majority of his army because of Time Warp and Force Fields, while Zest was just snowballing with his Blink Stalkers even though he basically lost the game since his first few attacks didn't do much.
Zest was never actually behind, even being down on supply. Roaches off creep just can't trade with blink stalkers if timewarp is available, all Zest needed to do was keep the creep back and wait for critical mass of stalkers. SK needed creep spread, static def at the third. Zest was winning almost the whole game.
On June 23 2014 21:18 Squat wrote: Zest was never actually behind, even being down on supply. Roaches off creep just can't trade with blink stalkers if timewarp is available, all Zest needed to do was keep the creep back and wait for critical mass of stalkers. SK needed creep spread, static def at the third. Zest was winning almost the whole game.
On June 23 2014 21:18 Squat wrote: Zest was never actually behind, even being down on supply. Roaches off creep just can't trade with blink stalkers if timewarp is available, all Zest needed to do was keep the creep back and wait for critical mass of stalkers. SK needed creep spread, static def at the third. Zest was winning almost the whole game.
I'm rather ignorant when it comes to ZvP but I don't understand either where all those "throw!" claims come from. Soulkey never had more than 40 drones, so even with the gold it's not enough to be significantly ahead against 2-bases Protoss.
On June 23 2014 21:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What happened that game, I totally fell asleep at my chair?
Soulkey overextended for no reason at all, and lost majority of his army because of Time Warp and Force Fields, while Zest was just snowballing with his Blink Stalkers even though he basically lost the game since his first few attacks didn't do much.
Isnt staying back even more risky b/c of ramp FFs and then blink into the 3rd?
On June 23 2014 21:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What happened that game, I totally fell asleep at my chair?
Soulkey overextended for no reason at all, and lost majority of his army because of Time Warp and Force Fields, while Zest was just snowballing with his Blink Stalkers even though he basically lost the game since his first few attacks didn't do much.
Isnt staying back even more risky b/c of ramp FFs and then blink into the 3rd?
Well, he traded a lot better when he was on creep and when he did let Zest to attack him instead of other way around. He also attacked like 5-10 seconds before Burrow had finished, and he could've traded a lot better with Burrow. I don't know, it was just a bunch of bad decisions from Soulkey in the last few minutes, mass Roaches against Blink Stalkers, attack off Creep, attack without Burrow, not making any lings.
On June 23 2014 21:18 Squat wrote: Zest was never actually behind, even being down on supply. Roaches off creep just can't trade with blink stalkers if timewarp is available, all Zest needed to do was keep the creep back and wait for critical mass of stalkers. SK needed creep spread, static def at the third. Zest was winning almost the whole game.
I'm rather ignorant when it comes to ZvP but I don't understand either where all those "throw!" claims come from. Soulkey never had more than 40 drones, so even with the gold it's not enough to be significantly ahead against 2-bases Protoss.
That's also important to note, Zest was ahead on workers the whole time, even with a gold that is just no sufficient income to win a battle of attrition. It's a protoss strat that works well on maps like this, set up camp outside the zerg third, keep warping in units, poke and prod until you have sufficient army size and your MSC has banked up energy. Zerg cannot drone because he has to make units non-stop as not to die. Eventually as you get enough stuff, your greater efficiency wins out.
On June 23 2014 21:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote: What happened that game, I totally fell asleep at my chair?
Soulkey overextended for no reason at all, and lost majority of his army because of Time Warp and Force Fields, while Zest was just snowballing with his Blink Stalkers even though he basically lost the game since his first few attacks didn't do much.
Isnt staying back even more risky b/c of ramp FFs and then blink into the 3rd?
Well, he traded a lot better when he was on creep and when he did let Zest to attack him instead of other way around. He also attacked like 5-10 seconds before Burrow had finished, and he could trade a lot better with Burrow. I don't know, it was just a bunch of bad decisions from Soulkey in the last few minutes, mass Roaches against Blink Stalkers, attack off Creep, attack without Burrow, not making any lings.
Good points. I didnt realized that he didnt wait for Burrow to finish, thats kinda weird.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (9)
64%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
29%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
7%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Stats vs Rain?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
Yeah I think Rain had far more Zealots so chances are his Immortals were fighting them for a while. Plus two of his immortals were off to the side fighting 4 archons and didn't get much done.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
Stats's Zealot count was too low so he didn't have anything to buffer. Strangely enough Stats had a lot of Stalkers despite not opening with Blink.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (9)
64%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
29%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
7%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Stats vs Rain?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I think that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and immortals are also less gas-intensive)
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
I think its a bit of a missconception though, Archons aren't armored, so Immortals only deal 20 damage to them. With 350 shields and 10 HP Archons are also very, very tanky, and they have aoe, which means they drain trough Immortal shields faster then usual. So now that I think of it, Archons rock.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I think that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
they both do pretty shitty against each other, but immortal wins because hardened shield
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah, and 1 Roach beats 2 Marines, conclusion Roaches are good against Marines?
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
I think its a bit of a missconception though, Archons aren't armored, so Immortals only deal 20 damage to them. With 350 shields and 10 HP Archons are also very, very tanky, and they have aoe, which means they drain trough Immortal shields faster then usual. So now that I think of it, Archons rock.
Still, shields + the fact that Archons do rather weak damage against non bio gives immos the edge in my experience.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah but a stalker beats a hydra one on one, not in big fights. Not a good benchmark for the strength of a unit in bigger fights.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah, and 1 Roach beats 2 Marines, conclusion Roaches are good against Marines?
Doesn't work that way.
Well, it does mean that armies with a higher immo count against the archon count are usually stronger.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah but a stalker beats a hydra one on one, not in big fights. Not a good benchmark for the strength of a unit in bigger fights.
don't even think that's true anymore after the hydra buff
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah, and 1 Roach beats 2 Marines, conclusion Roaches are good against Marines?
Doesn't work that way.
Well, it does mean that armies with a higher immo count against the archon count are usually stronger.
Whenever I watch PvP where one guy has Archons, Immortals and Zealots and other guy has just Archons and Zealots, the guy without Immortals usually wins since more Archons just melts Zealots so fast that from the start it feels like just Immortals and Archons against Zealots and Archons. Of course, it depends on the positioning, Time Warps, if one guy has Sentries etc, and on a lot of other factors... but that still happened in this game.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
I think its a bit of a missconception though, Archons aren't armored, so Immortals only deal 20 damage to them. With 350 shields and 10 HP Archons are also very, very tanky, and they have aoe, which means they drain trough Immortal shields faster then usual. So now that I think of it, Archons rock.
Still, shields + the fact that Archons do rather weak damage against non bio gives immos the edge in my experience.
In low numbers immos are better, just focus the archon and everything else dies. But on big battles archon splash is much better.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
EDIT: Actually. out of all units, Immortals do the worst against Archons, since Archons are the toughest non-armored units.
An immo beats an archon one on one
Yeah, and 1 Roach beats 2 Marines, conclusion Roaches are good against Marines?
Doesn't work that way.
Well, it does mean that armies with a higher immo count against the archon count are usually stronger.
Whenever I watch PvP where one guy has Archons, Immortals and Zealots and other guy has just Archons and Zealots, the guy without Immortals usually wins since more Archons just melts Zealots so fast that from the start it feels like just Immortals and Archons against Zealots and Archons. Of course, it depends on the positioning, Time Warps, if one guy has Sentries etc, and on a lot of other factors... but that still happened in this game.
I have the opposite experience : ) But yeah, a lot of factors are important.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
Didn't move either of the sides, just a similar concave at the beginning of the fight. Result was 7 Roaches left.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
Didn't move either of the sides, just a similar concave at the beginning of the fight. Result was 7 Roaches left.
I've moved both sides close to each other so both of them can shoot and that was when 17 Marines left in the end. Well, Roaches definitely favor bigger concave where Marines favor a clumped up group, I think that is the only reason.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
Didn't move either of the sides, just a similar concave at the beginning of the fight. Result was 7 Roaches left.
I've moved both sides close to each other so both of them can shoot and that was when 17 Marines left in the end. Well, Roaches definitely favor bigger concave where Marines favor a clumped up group, I think that is the only reason.
Dwf is right, no way 30 marines without stim randomly beat down 15 roaches.
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
Didn't move either of the sides, just a similar concave at the beginning of the fight. Result was 7 Roaches left.
I've moved both sides close to each other so both of them can shoot and that was when 17 Marines left in the end. Well, Roaches definitely favor bigger concave where Marines favor a clumped up group, I think that is the only reason.
Dwf is right, no way 30 marines without stim randomly beat down 15 roaches.
That is exactly what my friend had said back then, and was in awe when 17 Marines left in the end. :D
On June 23 2014 21:38 Doublemint wrote: Very strange, usually immos do insane damage against Archons and I was quite sure stats was in a good spot. Must have let the immos fire on the zealots which is very sloppy.
No, not really?
Archons aren't armored, Immortals are pretty bad against Archons.
I'm pretty sure that an immortal wins against an archon in 1vs1 (and they are also less gas-intensive)
Why would you think about it as 1v1 Scenario? 1 Roach can win against 2 Marines easily, but 30 Marines WITHOUT Stim melts 15 Roaches.
Assuming no CS, Roaches win easily.
I've tried it multiple times with my friend, and every time he was left with ~15 Marines, so no.
Without upgrades, without stim, without anything, just move and hit.
30 marines without stim, CS or medivacs will lose to 15 roaches. If your friend manages to beat up AND have 15 marines alive he should become a progamer. First hots bonjwa incoming.
Immo will win 1 v 1 against archon but Archon can hit air units, immo cant; also lots of immo not good against lots of archon cuz of splash dmg, and also Archon is tier 3 unit, immo is teir 2/ 2.5 i think??
You can even say 13.5 since one Roach is doing nothing during 10 seconds.
Ok...
Anyway, Roaches definitely wins when concave is big, but when you move them into each other(literally in almost melee range), Marines are winning since a lot of Roaches are overkilling Marines because of slow attack speed and high damage.
On June 23 2014 22:07 Superbanana wrote: SoO is soo amazing o_O
Yup, showing us how to fight late game mech. And I think that he is pretty efficient with his attacks(at least a lot more than previous Zergs that have done this...), since he is actually killing a lot of stuff, and not just losing units left and right.
TY is running out of money, soO is playing this very well. If he can't find a chink the terran's mech army, just keep pickiing away and steal their gas.
You can even say 13.5 since one Roach is doing nothing during 10 seconds.
Ok...
Anyway, Roaches definitely wins when concave is big, but when you move them into each other(literally in almost melee range), Marines are winning since a lot of Roaches are overkilling Marines because of slow attack speed and high damage.
Yes, Roaches' optimal behaviour is to stay at 4 range so they don't overkill.
But anyway, the initial point you wanted to make (some units become stronger as numbers grow) was perfectly valid.
You can even say 13.5 since one Roach is doing nothing during 10 seconds.
Ok...
Anyway, Roaches definitely wins when concave is big, but when you move them into each other(literally in almost melee range), Marines are winning since a lot of Roaches are overkilling Marines because of slow attack speed and high damage.
Yes, Roaches' optimal behaviour is to stay at 4 range so they don't overkill.
But anyway, the initial point you wanted to make (some units become stronger as numbers grow) was perfectly valid.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
7%
★★★- Good game (5)
18%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
54%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (5)
18%
28 total votes
Your vote: Recommend TY vs soO?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Ace Match?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
14%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (8)
57%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Ace Match?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
7%
★★★- Good game (5)
18%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (15)
54%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (5)
18%
28 total votes
Your vote: Recommend TY vs soO?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Ace Match?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
14%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (2)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (8)
57%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Ace Match?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
TY didn't have enough planetaries. His sim cities felt so inneficient because he was wasting minerals on turrets that kept dying. however planetaries provide extra DPS and are way, way more tanky. I felt had he invested those minerals into 2 planetaries per base he could have anchored his tanks in a unbreakable position, at least by ground.
On June 23 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: I like how Classic barely touched his hand in the end when they were high-fiving. He knows what he is up against in the GSL finals.
On June 23 2014 22:19 Destructicon wrote: TY didn't have enough planetaries. His sim cities felt so inneficient because he was wasting minerals on turrets that kept dying. however planetaries provide extra DPS and are way, way more tanky. I felt had he invested those minerals into 2 planetaries per base he could have anchored his tanks in a unbreakable position, at least by ground.
Edit: He also possibly over invested into air.
Maybe vipers are a really big thing in those games in KR and he and Hack felt, that they need this much AA.
On June 23 2014 22:19 Destructicon wrote: TY didn't have enough planetaries. His sim cities felt so inneficient because he was wasting minerals on turrets that kept dying. however planetaries provide extra DPS and are way, way more tanky. I felt had he invested those minerals into 2 planetaries per base he could have anchored his tanks in a unbreakable position, at least by ground.
Edit: He also possibly over invested into air.
would it be overpowered if planetaries can have buildable turrets on top of it that can only be attacked by air units? same as a normal turret in strength and durability.
On June 23 2014 22:34 DarkLordOlli wrote: Wooo, points for Rain and Zest, sweet! Who's bad at FPL now?!
Me
I blame the cost distribution. It was particularly awful this round.
Cost distribution is about the same as the last rounds, it's just that a lot of players that did well last rounds suck this round and teams are playing their bench more making it more difficult to be worth the value.
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Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Ace Match
Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Ace Match
