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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals?
Like, seriously?
If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance.
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On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance.
In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong.
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On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong.
There aren't too many lower tier players in GSL so I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you mean someone like MVP Tails who got knocked out by BByong yesterday? I don't think Tails is necessarily "lower tier." He's just more of a Proleague type player due to his penchant for best of 1 games. BByong might be a little bit better, but he's not on a radically different level. Or maybe you mean that someone like Dark (who knocked out BByong) is a mediocre Zerg? I don't know much about him, but he wouldn't be in the GSL and on a major team if he were some scrub.
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There goes 1 of 4 Terrans...
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For his fanclub:
Poll: Do you think Zest will win the 2014 GSL Season 2?Yes (27) 73% No (10) 27% 37 total votes Your vote: Do you think Zest will win the 2014 GSL Season 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
I am curious what you guys think
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong.
What is wrong? Terrans getting tons of wins in SPL and then choking in Code A? It's not problem of balance, it's problem of Flash, TY, Fantasy and company who can't advance because they played bad. Can you say that SuperNova is better player than they? No. But he's in Code S for 9th time in a row.
Mvp has wrist issues, same with TaeJa, MMA and Bomber know that they won't perform in Code S, because of it they play in other regions, aLive failed because he played bad last and this season, Polt is still wrecking competition, jjakji and ForGG are still competent and InNoVation is still alive as well.
+ Terrans whine because in GomTvT and other times of Terran and Zerg domination - never there were as many top Protosses as right now. And still Terrans always whined that Protoss op, that deathball wrecks and stuff. Nothing changed about it, only skill of top Tosses grew up a lot.
And this Code S will be won by Zerg anyway, you'll see.
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On May 01 2014 23:21 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong. What is wrong? Terrans getting tons of wins in SPL and then choking in Code A? It's not problem of balance, it's problem of Flash, TY, Fantasy and company who can't advance because they played bad. Can you say that SuperNova is better player than they? No. But he's in Code S for 9th time in a row. Mvp has wrist issues, same with TaeJa, MMA and Bomber know that they won't perform in Code S, because of it they play in other regions, aLive failed because he played bad last and this season, Polt is still wrecking competition, jjakji and ForGG are still competent and InNoVation is still alive as well. + Terrans whine because in GomTvT and other times of Terran and Zerg domination - never there were as many top Protosses as right now. And still Terrans always whined that Protoss op, that deathball wrecks and stuff. Nothing changed about it, only skill of top Tosses grew up a lot. And this Code S will be won by Zerg anyway, you'll see.
Maybe it is just easier as terran to choke and play bad? What about that.
You simply say "terran players were bad at that day and the toss players are all superior mentally".
You should ask yourself if exactly that is part of the problem, terran is harder to play and thus if you don't play on your 100% lvl you just lose relatively easy to the other races?!
I get kinda angry when i read your post tbh and i am not even a terran player, i just think the current state of terran in comparison to zerg and protoss is kinda sad.
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Zest is king of the world! And probably on his way to a second GSL championship.
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On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance.
How many terrans are that you are refering to?
If you mean TY, Flash and Maru: there is a reason they got nicknames like "GOD". Because they even win when they have an inferior race. They found a way that only works for them, to work around the imbalance.
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On May 01 2014 23:30 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 23:21 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong. What is wrong? Terrans getting tons of wins in SPL and then choking in Code A? It's not problem of balance, it's problem of Flash, TY, Fantasy and company who can't advance because they played bad. Can you say that SuperNova is better player than they? No. But he's in Code S for 9th time in a row. Mvp has wrist issues, same with TaeJa, MMA and Bomber know that they won't perform in Code S, because of it they play in other regions, aLive failed because he played bad last and this season, Polt is still wrecking competition, jjakji and ForGG are still competent and InNoVation is still alive as well. + Terrans whine because in GomTvT and other times of Terran and Zerg domination - never there were as many top Protosses as right now. And still Terrans always whined that Protoss op, that deathball wrecks and stuff. Nothing changed about it, only skill of top Tosses grew up a lot. And this Code S will be won by Zerg anyway, you'll see. Maybe it is just easier as terran to choke and play bad? What about that. You simply say "terran players were bad at that day and the toss players are all superior mentally". You should ask yourself if exactly that is part of the problem, terran is harder to play and thus if you don't play on your 100% lvl you just lose relatively easy to the other races?! I get kinda angry when i read your post tbh and i am not even a terran player, i just think the current state of terran in comparison to zerg and protoss is kinda sad.
that is absolutely what is the problem with the game. You have to constantly harass, pressure, trade, defend, micro and macro as terran. Can't lean back. It is similar with other races but not the same: In TvP you don't watch your army 1 sec, you can die to the power of storms. Or you don't split perfectly in TvZ, then banelings might just hit your army. And as terran there is always the problem: if you trade away your whole army, you are dead, cause you cannot remake enough units fast enough. While protoss can even warpin units faster in the TERRANS main then the terran can produce units in the main, because of warpin mechanic. Between winning and losing, there is a much smaller line as terran. I don't say Z or P are very imba to terran, but I do say thx to some mechanics, toss is way more forgiving. Like blocking out things with forcefields. Or you can deathball with one army group. Defense at home? 1-2 Chargelots and a templar is enough against a 4-Medivac-Doomdrop (see flash vs rain: Flash simultanously dropped out of 4 medivacs in the main of rain, 4 medivacs in the natural, did NO damage, lost everything. How? Feedback, Storm and while the chargelots go to work rain just needs to warp in some units, there is overcharge as well if needed.)
And also thx for stating that all the best terran players and the only one who were competitive over a long period of time, have now wrist issues, while that is not a common thing with other races. Could this be even a physical proof, that terran wins are hard work?
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Rollora, you call it a problem when that's in fact what makes Terran the most fun race to watch.
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On May 02 2014 07:51 cheekymonkey wrote:
Rollora, you call it a problem when that's in fact what makes Terran the most fun race to watch.
Cheekymonkey you are 100% right, this is so 100% true. Every matchup with a Terran involved is so much more fun to watch then PvZ or the mirrors. Yeah I even enjoy TvT more. Because of the complex mechanics and because of the multitasking and awesomeness required to pull of a win with terran (slightly exagerating  ). I have to quoute you again:
On May 02 2014 07:51 cheekymonkey wrote:
Rollora, you call it a problem when that's in fact what makes Terran the most fun race to watch.
but then again it IS a problem, if the race that is most enjoyable to watch is non-existent in some leagues anymore, therefore you can't watch it anymore. It's like over night every Tawny Roberts video on the web is being deleted
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Can we please stop the Terran elitism a bit? Please guys, it's really infuriating to see this kind of comments spamming everywhere, and really, it doesn't solve anything, nor adds anything to what we should be discussing: who's our favourite player, who we think will win, current meta, how awesome Starcraft is, etc....you know, the good things.
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On May 02 2014 08:32 silvana wrote:
Can we please stop the Terran elitism a bit? Please guys, it's really infuriating to see this kind of comments spamming everywhere, and really, it doesn't solve anything, nor adds anything to what we should be discussing: who's our favourite player, who we think will win, current meta, how awesome Starcraft is, etc....you know, the good things.
I don't think its elitism. People care about the game, so they are giving their opinions and if we don't speak up now sc2 will continue to die out. if you ask any sc2 fan they will for the most part say their favorite matchups include a Terran in it, and with so few Terrans doing well; the game is getting boring fast 
Not sure how much longer sc can go on like this tbh.
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On May 03 2014 16:20 affect wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 08:32 silvana wrote:
Can we please stop the Terran elitism a bit? Please guys, it's really infuriating to see this kind of comments spamming everywhere, and really, it doesn't solve anything, nor adds anything to what we should be discussing: who's our favourite player, who we think will win, current meta, how awesome Starcraft is, etc....you know, the good things.
I don't think its elitism. People care about the game, so they are giving their opinions and if we don't speak up now sc2 will continue to die out. if you ask any sc2 fan they will for the most part say their favorite matchups include a Terran in it, and with so few Terrans doing well; the game is getting boring fast Not sure how much longer sc can go on like this tbh.
I've seen *few* threads where people discuss and give their opinions in a respectful way, without trying to make the other person feel miserable. Of course I'm all about people giving their opinions and discussing stuff. What I tried to say is that we should stop this "my race is better" attitude, and the "your achievements mean nothing because your race is OP" thing. (I'm wasting my time tho. Silly me.)
On the other hand, SC2 won't get any better with this sh*t flooding every single thread. It will only get worse. Tell me about one single person that feels better after reading all this. And the people who speak this way know it, but it seems they don't care about the game and just want to win a fight on the internet.
Meh, in the end, I ended up ranting just as everyone else -.-
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Canada16217 Posts
On May 03 2014 16:20 affect wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 08:32 silvana wrote:
Can we please stop the Terran elitism a bit? Please guys, it's really infuriating to see this kind of comments spamming everywhere, and really, it doesn't solve anything, nor adds anything to what we should be discussing: who's our favourite player, who we think will win, current meta, how awesome Starcraft is, etc....you know, the good things.
I don't think its elitism. People care about the game, so they are giving their opinions and if we don't speak up now sc2 will continue to die out. if you ask any sc2 fan they will for the most part say their favorite matchups include a Terran in it, and with so few Terrans doing well; the game is getting boring fast Not sure how much longer sc can go on like this tbh.
Terran Match-ups may be more entertaining are also entertaining just less so(not in a hugely major way) IMO.
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On May 01 2014 23:21 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong. What is wrong? Terrans getting tons of wins in SPL and then choking in Code A? It's not problem of balance, it's problem of Flash, TY, Fantasy and company who can't advance because they played bad. Can you say that SuperNova is better player than they? No. But he's in Code S for 9th time in a row. Mvp has wrist issues, same with TaeJa, MMA and Bomber know that they won't perform in Code S, because of it they play in other regions, aLive failed because he played bad last and this season, Polt is still wrecking competition, jjakji and ForGG are still competent and InNoVation is still alive as well. + Terrans whine because in GomTvT and other times of Terran and Zerg domination - never there were as many top Protosses as right now. And still Terrans always whined that Protoss op, that deathball wrecks and stuff. Nothing changed about it, only skill of top Tosses grew up a lot. And this Code S will be won by Zerg anyway, you'll see.
Are you seriously comparing top 3 Terran with foreigners ?
And volatile and over-prepared Bo1 to Bo3 and Bo5 ?
Assimilating global terrans underperformance with "bad luck" ?
If you want to evaluate top Terrans, compare them with the top of the other races.
And in series, bo3, preferably bo5. You don't need a degree in theoretical Statistics to understand that.
What's the bo3/bo5 win ratio of the very top T (Maru, Innovation, BByong) against the very top Z (sOO, Life, Soulkey) since Zerg adapted to the WM nerf (late 2013, 2014) ?
How many time did T take down the very top P (Zest, Parting, sOs) recently ?
The win ratio is far below 45%. Only thing which makes it 45-50% ish is the fact that top 3-5 T is competing with top 15 Z/P.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 03 2014 18:24 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 23:21 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 21:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On May 01 2014 21:29 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 01 2014 13:24 Caihead wrote:On May 01 2014 08:37 Xinzoe wrote:On May 01 2014 08:07 cheekymonkey wrote:
im getting sick of so few terrans in the gsl wow u've been sick for almost 5 months bro. poor guy Except this is pretty unprecedented, even at the most "unbalanced" instances with gomtvt and bl/infestor there were still variety of races in the finals, now we've had 18 finalists with only 2 terran and no tournament wins in 2014. I challenge you to find any period comparable. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments You really want to connect balance with amount of races in finals? Like, seriously? If Terrans can't make it to GSL but happy to grind wins in Proleague or get money in foreign tournaments/leagues, it's not problem of balance. In fact, it is. If there's only 3 to 5 Terrans in the world capable of earning wins/money vs lower tier Zerg/Protoss or even foreign tier Zerg/Protoss, there is something wrong. What is wrong? Terrans getting tons of wins in SPL and then choking in Code A? It's not problem of balance, it's problem of Flash, TY, Fantasy and company who can't advance because they played bad. Can you say that SuperNova is better player than they? No. But he's in Code S for 9th time in a row. Mvp has wrist issues, same with TaeJa, MMA and Bomber know that they won't perform in Code S, because of it they play in other regions, aLive failed because he played bad last and this season, Polt is still wrecking competition, jjakji and ForGG are still competent and InNoVation is still alive as well. + Terrans whine because in GomTvT and other times of Terran and Zerg domination - never there were as many top Protosses as right now. And still Terrans always whined that Protoss op, that deathball wrecks and stuff. Nothing changed about it, only skill of top Tosses grew up a lot. And this Code S will be won by Zerg anyway, you'll see. Are you seriously comparing top 3 Terran with foreigners ? And volatile and over-prepared Bo1 to Bo3 and Bo5 ? Assimilating global terrans underperformance with "bad luck" ? If you want to evaluate top Terrans, compare them with the top of the other races. And in series, bo3, preferably bo5. You don't need a degree in theoretical Statistics to understand that. What's the bo3/bo5 win ratio of the very top T (Maru, Innovation, BByong) against the very top Z (sOO, Life, Soulkey) since Zerg adapted to the WM nerf (late 2013, 2014) ? How many time did T take down the very top P (Zest, Parting, sOs) recently ? The win ratio is far below 45%. Only thing which makes it 45-50% ish is the fact that top 3-5 T is competing with top 15 Z/P.
I won't rate Bbyong in top-3 terran even ahead of TaeJa with wrist issue, Bomber and Polt.
And it's soO, not sOO.
Since WM nerf?
Maru always was struggling against top-Zergs, InNoVation is like losing to everyone despite who is against him from tops.
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EPT
