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On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0
Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier
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On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0
That's what i thought when he said he was gonna fix it so quickly, but apparently it worked. I still have more confidence in his ZvZ, so I hope JonSnow advances
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On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think.
Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's !@#$%^&* him over".
Here is what I wrote:
IMO this is a situation where streamlistening seems really really likely.
I wrote that becvause with my knowledge back then streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted.
Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions.
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Alright, time for some heart predictions:
Bracket 1: CatZ
Bracket 2: Hendralisk
Bracket 3: qxc
Bracket 4: NonY
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0 Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier
Did it start with S and end with Mutas?
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On April 18 2014 10:11 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to proof he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think. it's especially damaging and unfair to make those accusations against a player who's contracted with a professional team. avilo can say whatever he wants and his stream fans will probably love him for it no matter what, but a pro player with a job and a work ethic has to be concerned about reputation and cheating accusations. not a classy look
also pretty sure he had pylons at the third and fourth to scout that and he just sent his probe back, maybe to stay in that spot if avilo tries a hidden expo or just to hide it in case he needs to rebuild pylons later. calling that a maphack accusation is ridiculous, you can see something similar in any game to make an excuse for maphack. Did you miss the part where bails multiple times missed hellion runbys coming or didn't realize that avilo was making two starport cloaked banshee? You would think he would realize to bring an observer or two with his army on his first attack if he was maphacking/streamcheating.
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On April 18 2014 10:14 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think. Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's fuck him over". Here is what I wrote: I wrote that becvause with my knowledge streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted. Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions.
raising the question of cheating is tantamount to an accusation. it's like when politicians are in an election race and one of them says "now i'm not ACCUSING my opponent of being a communist, but he is wearing a red shirt today..." surely you can understand that
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United States97276 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:14 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0 Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier Did it start with S and end with Mutas?
speedling viper mutas?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Catz' ZvT is his worst I think.
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And Suppy is through to the ro8 as well after a very short qualifier #1!
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:15 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:14 stuchiu wrote:On April 18 2014 10:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0 Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier Did it start with S and end with Mutas? speedling viper mutas?
Correct.
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On April 18 2014 10:14 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0 Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier Did it start with S and end with Mutas?
He asked how to beat some bullshit without swarmhosts and I typed down random good stuff
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On April 18 2014 10:16 stuchiu wrote:
Catz' ZvT is his worst I think.
Yeah, it is, unfortunately. ZvZ is his best though, and I've seen him play some damn good games against Suppy if he can get past KoMa
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United States97276 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:16 stuchiu wrote:
Catz' ZvT is his worst I think.
ZvT too standardized for CatZ
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 18 2014 10:15 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:14 Hider wrote:On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think. Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's fuck him over". Here is what I wrote: IMO this is a situation where streamlistening seems really really likely. I wrote that becvause with my knowledge streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted. Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions. raising the question of cheating is tantamount to an accusation. it's like when politicians are in an election race and one of them says "now i'm not ACCUSING my opponent of being a communist, but he is wearing a red shirt today..." surely you can understand that
RIP Michael Jackson found guilty before innocent.
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Man Avilo is laying on the tweets hot and heavy today
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On April 18 2014 10:15 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:14 Hider wrote:On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think. Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's !@#$%^&* him over". Here is what I wrote: IMO this is a situation where streamlistening seems really really likely. I wrote that becvause with my knowledge streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted. Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions. raising the question of cheating is tantamount to an accusation. it's like when politicians are in an election race and one of them says "now i'm not ACCUSING my opponent of being a communist, but he is wearing a red shirt today..." surely you can understand that
Yes, but you realize you can never have 100% evidence right on cheating? All you do is base stuff on probaiblities, which arises from ones knowledge in the current situation. Noone never has 100% knowledge in one situation and thus seeking other peoples opinion/knowledge can be useful in helping to estimate probabilites.
I wrote that it seemed likely he cheated, and voiced my opinion. Now with new information coming up (stream delay), its definitely seemed likely I was wrong, and I was looking for whether other people have similar experience where they have realized that their scouting worker (intended for proxies) was misshiftclicked. Because I have never in my life seen that before (and I watched a lot and played a lot).
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On April 18 2014 10:16 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:14 stuchiu wrote:On April 18 2014 10:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:On April 18 2014 10:10 stuchiu wrote:Was 1 day really enough to fix his ZvP? 0.0 Yeah I gave him the sickest comp' earlier Did it start with S and end with Mutas? He asked how to beat some bullshit without swarmhosts and I typed down random good stuff
Tell him ling/hydra timings! Idk why I like them so much lel
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On April 18 2014 10:17 Yorkie wrote:
Man Avilo is laying on the tweets hot and heavy today
Hit 'em up! I don't have twitter, I don't want to miss them 
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On April 18 2014 10:18 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 10:15 Waise wrote:On April 18 2014 10:14 Hider wrote:On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:
wrong
On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?
Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post: When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it. In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout. I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking. You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times. Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think. Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's !@#$%^&* him over". Here is what I wrote: IMO this is a situation where streamlistening seems really really likely. I wrote that becvause with my knowledge streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted. Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions. raising the question of cheating is tantamount to an accusation. it's like when politicians are in an election race and one of them says "now i'm not ACCUSING my opponent of being a communist, but he is wearing a red shirt today..." surely you can understand that Yes, but you realize you can never have 100% evidence right on cheating? All you do is base stuff on probaiblities, which arises from ones knowledge in the current situation. Noone never has 100% knowledge in one situation and thus seeking other peoples opinion/knowledge can be useful in helping to estimate probabilites. I wrote that it seemed likely he cheated, and voiced my opinion. Now with new information coming up (stream delay), its definitely seemed likely I was wrong, and I was looking for whether other people have similar experience where they have realized that their scouting worker (intended for proxies) was misshiftclicked. Because I have never in my life seen that before.
+ Show Spoiler +
Hider have you addressed the 3 minute stream delay? Doesn't that make your accusation impossible?
Oops I can't read haha.
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EPT
