For anybody who is inexperienced with the game or is not top gm level let me explain this as I have played bails over 30 times. First of all, it is common to shiftclick and then later realize you misclicked but not adjust it right away it happens.

- from playing bails, he is not a very solid player but he is generally good about map vision scouting and army countering. Look at the minimap he has most of the map covered and he missed the only logical expansion that somebody would hide and that he did not currently have vision of.

-right when he shift clicked the probe he went to attack and he started blink a pylon and a few gates I believe. Ive noticed from playing him he would have slow reactions to muta tech switch harasses while roach ling would hit one base. Most likely he had other important things to do and was not able to fix the probes scouting until later.

This is obviously not 100%, but really nothing worth accusations. Playing avilo has the tendency to lower intelligent players iq, so it is possible he was not able to click straight at the time. Hope this cleared things up a little...

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

April 18 2014 01:21 GMT

#523

yorkie with the BUUUUUUURN

Hider

Denmark9405 Posts

April 18 2014 01:22 GMT

#524

On April 18 2014 10:19 KillerDucky wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 18 2014 10:18 Hider wrote:

On April 18 2014 10:15 Waise wrote:

On April 18 2014 10:14 Hider wrote:

On April 18 2014 10:09 Musicus wrote:

On April 18 2014 10:01 Hider wrote:

wrong

On April 18 2014 09:46 Undead1993 wrote:
mb he realized that his probe didn't quite make it to the spot where it needs to and sent it back? could it be?

Muscious that's not adressing my point. Read what I wrote in my first post:

When you shiftclick a probe around the map to scout for expo your never actually gonna realize if you misshiftclicked it.

In order for people to argue that I was wrong, the argument would need to be presented in such a way that it is likely that someone actually realize when you misshiftclick scout.

I never as a player actually ever discovered when I misshiftclicked scouting, and I have never seen such a thing happen before in other games (and I watched alot alot). So to me it simply seemed that the probability as streamcheating as higher than someone realizing a misshiftclicking.

You never shiftclicked a worker via minimap and then afterwards sent the same probe back to a certain position when you realise there is still fog of war left and you didn't send it far enough? Happened to me a lot of times.

Also you are saying he sent his probe back 10 seconds afterwards, because he listened to stream, but there is several minutes delay on the stream. Btw we don't have to prove anything, you have to prove he did streamcheat. If you can't do that you should simply never throw accusations like that around. It's more serious than you might think.

Once again, I don't think you have actually written what I wrote. I never said: "Hey this guy definitely stream cheats, let's !@#$%^&* him over".

Here is what I wrote:

IMO this is a situation where streamlistening seems really really likely.

I wrote that becvause with my knowledge streamcheating seemed really likely. Then other people have weighted in with arguments against it/possible explanations, and that's all I actually ever wanted.

Regarding scouting with probe FOG --> Yes in the early game when you wanna know where you opponent starts you look very closely on the scouting probe. But later in the game, the idea of paying that much attention to a probe scouting for proxies seems a lot more unlikely - unless ofc your really really sure that he has a proxy expansions.

raising the question of cheating is tantamount to an accusation. it's like when politicians are in an election race and one of them says "now i'm not ACCUSING my opponent of being a communist, but he is wearing a red shirt today..." surely you can understand that

Yes, but you realize you can never have 100% evidence right on cheating? All you do is base stuff on probaiblities, which arises from ones knowledge in the current situation. Noone never has 100% knowledge in one situation and thus seeking other peoples opinion/knowledge can be useful in helping to estimate probabilites.

I wrote that it seemed likely he cheated, and voiced my opinion. Now with new information coming up (stream delay), its definitely seemed likely I was wrong, and I was looking for whether other people have similar experience where they have realized that their scouting worker (intended for proxies) was misshiftclicked. Because I have never in my life seen that before.

Hider have you addressed the 3 minute stream delay? Doesn't that make your accusation impossible?

Eh yes, in the exact post you quoted........ "Now with new information coming up (stream delay), its definitely seemed likely I was wrong"

Ofc it could still be possible that he send his scouting probe to scout for the proxy expo, then missed it, and then he heard through the delay that Rotterdam said Avilo had a proxy expo and thus opted to check the location once again. But I admit it seems very unlikely that anyone would bother listening to stream/having stream on external monitor with a 3 minute delay.

Thank you, this was all I wanted to hear, because I don't have experience realizing misshiftclick in such a situation before.

Waise

3165 Posts

April 18 2014 01:23 GMT

#525

koma's push and catz's counterattack both kind of failed and evened out there

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:24 GMT

#526

On April 18 2014 10:21 Undead1993 wrote:
yorkie with the BUUUUUUURN

I had to. I'm nervous I'll get flamed pretty hard but oh well

stuchiu

Fiddler's Green42661 Posts

April 18 2014 01:24 GMT

#527

You know what Catz' problem is? He didnt make 90 banelings.

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:26 GMT

#528

Glad Koma made it far this time, he's pretty damn good

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

April 18 2014 01:26 GMT

#529

On April 18 2014 10:24 stuchiu wrote:
You know what Catz' problem is? He didnt make 90 banelings.

you know what catz' advantage is? koma can't split

stuchiu

Fiddler's Green42661 Posts

April 18 2014 01:27 GMT

#530

On April 18 2014 10:26 Undead1993 wrote:

Show nested quote +

you know what catz' advantage is? koma can't split

Neo-Bomber.

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:27 GMT

#531

On April 18 2014 10:26 Undead1993 wrote:

Show nested quote +

you know what catz' advantage is? koma can't split

Yeah he can

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

April 18 2014 01:27 GMT

#532

On April 18 2014 10:27 stuchiu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Neo-Bomber.

oh shit he stepped it up spoke too soon

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:28 GMT

#533

On April 18 2014 10:27 stuchiu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Neo-Bomber.

He is like Bomber. he can split, but doesn't always do it

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:30 GMT

#534

Siphonn 2-1 (Z)

JonSnow

Siphonn advances to the ro8 to play (Z)

Hendralisk

geokilla

Canada8244 Posts

April 18 2014 01:30 GMT

#535

Everyone knows not to go mech against Protoss..

geokilla

Canada8244 Posts

April 18 2014 01:31 GMT

#536

On April 18 2014 10:28 Yorkie wrote:

Show nested quote +

He is like Bomber. he can split, but doesn't always do it

He better be able to split with 350 APM... How is that even possible?

geokilla

Canada8244 Posts

April 18 2014 01:33 GMT

#537

CatZ sending his Overlord to scout top left, only to drone scout top left and bottom right. Um... CatZ..

Yorkie

United States12612 Posts

April 18 2014 01:33 GMT

#538

There are numerous 14 and under players with the ability to type gg at the end of a game and move on, but the 26 year old Avilo just can't seem to master it

Undead1993

Germany17651 Posts

April 18 2014 01:34 GMT

#539

On April 18 2014 10:30 geokilla wrote:
https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/456964800661049344
https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/456961936706392065

Everyone knows not to go mech against Protoss..

i wish one day there will be a bo11 between avilo and sos

Shellshock

United States97276 Posts

April 18 2014 01:34 GMT

#540

On April 18 2014 10:33 Yorkie wrote:
There are numerous 14 and under players with the ability to type gg at the end of a game and move on, but the 26 year old Avilo just can't seem to master it

He's 26 hater