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On March 02 2014 20:58 Seeker wrote: I seriously do not understand the Sacsri decision. Even Dark would have been a better choice... OR FREAKING SOOOOO!!!!
:O I guess they had such good results recently (and such a strong roster to fall back on) that they wanted to give him a chance to play or something.
On March 02 2014 20:58 Seeker wrote: I seriously do not understand the Sacsri decision. Even Dark would have been a better choice... OR FREAKING SOOOOO!!!!
:O I guess they had such good results recently (and such a strong roster to fall back on) that they wanted to give him a chance to play or something.
Well he just totally blew his chance. So gratz Sacsri...
On March 02 2014 20:58 Seeker wrote: I seriously do not understand the Sacsri decision. Even Dark would have been a better choice... OR FREAKING SOOOOO!!!!
sometimes b-teamers get playing time. That's just the way it has always been. KT seems to be the only team that does not rotate
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Sentry Immortal is the longest lasting all in build in the game. Other all ins come and go, this one endures. It will be alive in LotV too, by the looks of it.
On March 02 2014 21:08 Qwerty85 wrote: Do zergs ever defend this? Because I don't remember the last time I saw it fail.
I think with a slow immortal timing like that you can win with Lair tech like infestors, swarm hosts, and probably even mutas. DRG just made too many zerglings early on - he was slightly behind economically the entire game. With no tech besides roaches and a lacklustre economy, of course he's going to lose to that.
On March 02 2014 21:08 Qwerty85 wrote: Do zergs ever defend this? Because I don't remember the last time I saw it fail.
I think with a slow immortal timing like that you can win with Lair tech like infestors, swarm hosts, and probably even mutas. DRG just made too many zerglings early on - he was slightly behind economically the entire game. With no tech besides roaches and a lacklustre economy, of course he's going to lose to that.
To be fair, it was only a slow immortal timing because DRG made so many lings early on.
On March 02 2014 21:08 Insoleet wrote: Nerf this retarded sentry / immortal combo pleaaaaaase T_T
This game has nothing to do with sentry-Immo being too strong or something. DRG was behind the whole game, his decision to make bilion of speedlings, which were denied by simply building a wall by PartinG, was what cost him the game...
On March 02 2014 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: Please don't disregard the speedling all in that DRG tried off 15 drones and the third base that got cancelled.
Yeah, absolutely not relevant to the outcome of that game /sarcasm
On March 02 2014 21:08 Qwerty85 wrote: Do zergs ever defend this? Because I don't remember the last time I saw it fail.
I think with a slow immortal timing like that you can win with Lair tech like infestors, swarm hosts, and probably even mutas. DRG just made too many zerglings early on - he was slightly behind economically the entire game. With no tech besides roaches and a lacklustre economy, of course he's going to lose to that.
To be fair, it was only a slow immortal timing because DRG made so many lings early on.
True. But there are other ways to deal with the quicker immortal timing. Either way making that many lings early on for no real purpose is what put DRG behind. Plus losing the 3rd for free didn't help.
Well at least this was quick and painless. HerO vs. JD was looking at someone being tortured and doing nothing about it. Zergs should whine more about it I guess. They practically invented it in late 2010 against terran and it always got Blizzard moving :D
On March 02 2014 21:08 Qwerty85 wrote: Do zergs ever defend this? Because I don't remember the last time I saw it fail.
I think with a slow immortal timing like that you can win with Lair tech like infestors, swarm hosts, and probably even mutas. DRG just made too many zerglings early on - he was slightly behind economically the entire game. With no tech besides roaches and a lacklustre economy, of course he's going to lose to that.
To be fair, it was only a slow immortal timing because DRG made so many lings early on.
True. But there are other ways to deal with the quicker immortal timing. Either way making that many lings early on for no real purpose is what put DRG behind. Plus losing the 3rd for free didn't help.
He didn't lose the third... He cancelled and remade at a different location.
On March 02 2014 21:08 Qwerty85 wrote: Do zergs ever defend this? Because I don't remember the last time I saw it fail.
I think with a slow immortal timing like that you can win with Lair tech like infestors, swarm hosts, and probably even mutas. DRG just made too many zerglings early on - he was slightly behind economically the entire game. With no tech besides roaches and a lacklustre economy, of course he's going to lose to that.
To be fair, it was only a slow immortal timing because DRG made so many lings early on.
True. But there are other ways to deal with the quicker immortal timing. Either way making that many lings early on for no real purpose is what put DRG behind. Plus losing the 3rd for free didn't help.
He didn't lose the third... He cancelled and remade at a different location.
His third was delayed for a full minute, and those zealots forced DRG to keep making lings instead of saturating the third. You are never ever going to hold any protoss timing when you are either tied or behind in workers for the entire game.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
I dunno, I only really see PartinG regularly employ the wonwonwon and score good wins with it.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
The deciding factor in the game was DRG screwing up. Even if it was a super overpowered unstoppable push, that wasn't why DRG lost.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
Well if usually comes out when the Zerg does something early game to make it really hard to stop. And there have just been different variations and stuff making it stronger/hit faster etc. There are things you can do to stop it but fighting at your 3rd hatchery with 7 roaches on the field and no roach speed you are definitely going to get destroyed.
And when the Zerg goes super greedy mode it's super easy mode to win with this build if they don't know it's coming.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
Details may change and they do, but one thing remains constant. If anything, that says more about this build and its variations.
No other all in build has been this long lasting in the history of the game. Where is the 1-1-1 now? What other all in from which race has a similar success rate even in cases when it's been scouted?
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
Details may change and they do, but one thing remains constant. If anything, that says more about this build and its variations.
The complete brokenness of that build and its unstoppability across expansions (and into Starcraft 3 no doubt) must be why Protoss do it every single game for their free wins.
I hate Super. Every time I think he should do well, he plays like a foreigner and everytime I think he should get outclassed, he owns.... Now he's going to ruin my anti-team.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
Details may change and they do, but one thing remains constant. If anything, that says more about this build and its variations.
No other all in build has been this long lasting in the history of the game. Where is the 1-1-1 now? What other all in from which race has a similar success rate even in cases when it's been scouted?
I dunno if it has the same success rate when scouted but in terms of history, I think proxy 2 rax TvZ has had a longer stretch of being around/relevant.
On March 02 2014 21:26 Waxangel wrote: wow vampire is playing great against the soulgod
tbh, soulkey played safe and super hardcore cheesed him. Winning by bo1 coinflipping is not that much of an achievement...
Hardcore cheesed? Wut? DTs did nothing, Super just won with standard composition. It wasn't even a coinflip. SoulKey just lost his roaches, that was end.
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On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
Details may change and they do, but one thing remains constant. If anything, that says more about this build and its variations.
No other all in build has been this long lasting in the history of the game. Where is the 1-1-1 now? What other all in from which race has a similar success rate even in cases when it's been scouted?
I dunno if it has the same success rate when scouted but in terms of history, I think proxy 2 rax TvZ has had a longer stretch of being around/relevant.
On March 02 2014 21:26 Waxangel wrote: wow vampire is playing great against the soulgod
tbh, soulkey played safe and super hardcore cheesed him. Winning by bo1 coinflipping is not that much of an achievement...
Hardcore cheesed? Wut? DTs did nothing, Super just won with standard composition. It wasn't even a coinflip.
coinflip that went on for 20 minutes lol. how can you even win with a coinflip in pvz i guess cannonrush and proxy gates is the only thing that comes to mind
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On March 02 2014 21:30 opterown wrote: probably field your A-team next week lol SKT
The decision to send Sacscri against Swagger seems like a good one on paper. The star studded lineup of SKT should deliver victory even if they go down 1 game. The biggest wrench in the works here is that Soulkey lost, but I think SKT are still confident if they can get to the ace match.
On March 02 2014 21:26 Waxangel wrote: wow vampire is playing great against the soulgod
tbh, soulkey played safe and super hardcore cheesed him. Winning by bo1 coinflipping is not that much of an achievement...
Hardcore cheesed? Wut? DTs did nothing, Super just won with standard composition. It wasn't even a coinflip.
coinflip that went on for 20 minutes lol. how can you even win with a coinflip in pvz i guess cannonrush and proxy gates is the only thing that comes to mind
Ye, it's basically PvP. PvZ nowdays is quite predictable to say the least.
On March 02 2014 21:14 ne4aJIb wrote: how to deal with that? muta? baneling drops?
Don't fuck up in the early game and have more units when it hits.
Looking at the success rate of the Immortal all in over the years, across expansions and patches, those poor Zerg players sure do seem to fuck up a lot, and the Protoss always plays a perfect game.
You can't compare the WoL metagame, and the way Soultrains were used back then, with how those builds work now. They are actually very different. Then again, i suppose the average viewer just watches a game and says ZOMG IMMORTALZ WON.
Details may change and they do, but one thing remains constant. If anything, that says more about this build and its variations.
No other all in build has been this long lasting in the history of the game. Where is the 1-1-1 now? What other all in from which race has a similar success rate even in cases when it's been scouted?
I dunno if it has the same success rate when scouted but in terms of history, I think proxy 2 rax TvZ has had a longer stretch of being around/relevant.
Cannon Rush.
Cannon Rush and TvZs are around long. But they have NOWHERE near the same sucsess rate.
Wolf is almost as good at predicting Games as artosis.
On March 02 2014 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote: Ah shit I missed it, what happened?
super played exceptionally well, scouted all the time, was countering every move sk made. failed dts in the beginning though, but that didn't really affect the game. he lost only 2 dts
On March 02 2014 21:30 opterown wrote: probably field your A-team next week lol SKT
The decision to send Sacscri against Swagger seems like a good one on paper. The star studded lineup of SKT should deliver victory even if they go down 1 game. The biggest wrench in the works here is that Soulkey lost, but I think SKT are still confident if they can get to the ace match.
they didn't know it was gonna be swagger though, and soulkey/parting aren't quite 100% wins
On March 02 2014 21:34 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Fantasy will attempt a cool mech into bio/mech transition again. We'll all be super interested, then Sniper will kill him. It's just what he does.
Fuck Sniper for ruining Ryungs mojo back in the day.
I saw MVP lose a game after killing a huge number of drones with BFH's in WoL during his prime so Fantasy is a billion miles ahead but can still botch this
On March 02 2014 21:44 Orcasgt24 wrote: I saw MVP lose a game after killing a huge number of drones with BFH's in WoL during his prime so Fantasy is a billion miles ahead but can still botch this
On March 02 2014 21:44 Orcasgt24 wrote: I saw MVP lose a game after killing a huge number of drones with BFH's in WoL during his prime so Fantasy is a billion miles ahead but can still botch this
On March 02 2014 21:41 Greenei wrote: ugh.. that was clearly a fake for stim.
was it? He is getting stim right after that.
he hid his second factory and the overlord didn't see it. NOW he wants a biotransition but at the earlier point of time he wanted zerg to think that any attack would be late so that he would drone. that's at least what makes more sense to me than getting concussive for no rauders and then cancelling it.
On March 02 2014 21:43 CruelZeratul wrote: Worth it? He still has 40 Drones, 3 Bases (meaning 50-60 Drones in seconds) and Fantasy doesn't have any kind of army.
On March 02 2014 21:44 Orcasgt24 wrote: I saw MVP lose a game after killing a huge number of drones with BFH's in WoL during his prime so Fantasy is a billion miles ahead but can still botch this
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Fantasy is playing beautiful Bio-Mech style, and I hope to see this more and more from Terran players. Tanks, Mines, Hellbats, Thors, Marauders, Marines, Medivacs. Amazing!
it's funny how Fantasy doesn't add one specific mech unit to his bio-composition but instead gets a few of every unit the Factory can produce. Hellions, Hellbats, Mines, Thors, Tanks
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On March 02 2014 21:49 Yello wrote: it's funny how Fantasy doesn't add one specific mech unit to his bio-composition but instead gets a few of every unit the Factory can produce. Hellions, Hellbats, Mines, Thors, Tanks
That is how terrorists operate. You gotta stay unpredictable.
On March 02 2014 21:53 Vindicare605 wrote: You know, it's admirable that MVP still has faith in DRG even with his struggles lately. Shows his team has his back.
They just need to make the team fight over the bed again and we will see a resurgence like no other
On March 02 2014 21:53 Vindicare605 wrote: You know, it's admirable that MVP still has faith in DRG even with his struggles lately. Shows his team has his back.
They just need to make the team fight over the bed again and we will see a resurgence like no other
What DRG really needs is genius back, you can't have batman without robin.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
I think super in a PvP against Parting/Rain/Classic would have been way better for them
Its quite possible DRG is still a monster in practice in the team house or on ladder and thus they keep sending him out, but for some weird reason he can't bring his best in televised matches again.
On March 02 2014 21:53 Vindicare605 wrote: You know, it's admirable that MVP still has faith in DRG even with his struggles lately. Shows his team has his back.
They just need to make the team fight over the bed again and we will see a resurgence like no other
What DRG really needs is genius back, you can't have batman without robin.
But Genius is totally some kind of evil_professor villain.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
On March 02 2014 21:53 Vindicare605 wrote: You know, it's admirable that MVP still has faith in DRG even with his struggles lately. Shows his team has his back.
They just need to make the team fight over the bed again and we will see a resurgence like no other
What DRG really needs is genius back, you can't have batman without robin.
But Genius is totally some kind of evil_professor villain.
On March 02 2014 21:53 Vindicare605 wrote: You know, it's admirable that MVP still has faith in DRG even with his struggles lately. Shows his team has his back.
They just need to make the team fight over the bed again and we will see a resurgence like no other
What DRG really needs is genius back, you can't have batman without robin.
But Genius is totally some kind of evil_professor villain.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
10 pool and then micro like life.
More like 10 pool banelings and derp around like Shine
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
10 pool and then micro like life.
More like 10 pool banelings and derp around like Shine
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
We all know that january was like #yolo in certain situations
I want DRG to win. SK is the king of consistency, he can bounce back no matter what, but DRG feels like he needs a boost to his confidence to return to beast mode. Also, I want to see a huge upset!
On March 02 2014 21:59 mqto wrote: Zerg is 1-14 now in round 2. Life ended losing streak by beating a LoL player.
tbH the zerg lineup in PL so far has been pretty lackluster overall. They got bad matchups, or didn't get played or good players got ZvZs that don't count.
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
We all know that january was like #yolo in certain situations
January can never compete with MBC Suicidetoss vs KT chintoss. 2 teams sending rookies for the lols.
On March 02 2014 21:52 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: :O!
DRG c'mon!
This is the best MVP could hope for. Soulkey is better in ZvZ but DRG has a good shot
If DRG has studied Soulkey at all (which every Zerg in the whole world should do currently), he should know how you can shine against Soulkey's ZvZ. Basically any wellexecuted early 2game coinflip has a huge chance of working... though that is nothing special for Soulkey vs Zerg, that's just the shitty matchup.
10 pool and then micro like life.
More like 10 pool banelings and derp around like Shine
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
We all know that january was like #yolo in certain situations
January can never compete with MBC Suicidetoss vs KT chintoss. 2 teams sending rookies for the lols.
Mc apparently prepared the sickest cheese against flash and was completely surprised by stats according to interviews he's done
On March 02 2014 21:54 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite interesting to see 2 guys, who lost their matches, in Ace match.
Flash lost against Stork last week and still went out as an ace and won.
Yeah I know, that it's not that uncommon to see losing player to be an Ace, but I have never seen two losing players being fielded in the Ace match against each other.
Ace matches are decided before the match so players can prepare their builds. No team in their right mind will decide it on the spot.
Most of the time ye, but sometimes the plan isnt followed. In the last BW PL final, Flash wasnt supposed to go as ace but Flash asked to go and he faced bisu (and lost because bisu > all).
On March 02 2014 22:03 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: ok this game is over already ;x
oh great oracle who won?
If SK micros well its not a hard hold
hmm poor DRG T_T
It went a lot better than expected ;o Koreans stopped doing 10p bane cuz it loses to 15h16p if scouted and the defender has good micro even on a 2p map (this game soulkey went 15h14p). It's just a coinflip on 4p maps if they dont overlord scout you first
It'd be a lot more even if Soulkey hadn't overextended his zerglings earlier, and lost them all to speedlings. He had no army units besides queens for like 5 minutes.
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It's not even that huge an upset. Soulkey has dropped his share of ZvZ over the past few months and ZvZ is a very mechanical matchup which DRG excels in.
On March 02 2014 22:14 nimdil wrote: SK blidnly defended while DRG put his economy into overdrive. Not a good day for SK.
His OL was missing the hatch for so long, had he seen it he would've droned up I guess. There was absolutely no reason for his OL not to be checking the natural at that point. Losing the lings for no reason was also atrocious and didn't help.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread DRG follow up.
Soulkey was ahead after the ling/baneling all-in, and should have won from that. He got way too cautious. He really should have had his scouting overlord in the main to gauge drone count, since DRG couldn't afford to build a queen until after the all-in failed.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
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SK did too much. Either you go three queen no spine, or spine and 2 queen. He lost three drones + mining time there with just that. Add in his heavily delayed gas, and DRG was free to redrone while SK was blind.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
10 pool >15hatch>15 pool>10pool . If SoulKey opened with a 15 hatch he was at a dissadvantage ... It's really hard to defend properly and you can't defend much better then that .
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
I think I have only seen Leenock micro that well.
Soulkey microd well enough to be at a pretty large advantage till he didn't scout and completely misread the situation
On March 02 2014 22:17 Seeker wrote: Ugh... PartinG should have been the ace...
just cos you have him on FPL? haha
soulkey -1 today, sad for me
No. Cause he won his match today. Soulkey lost his match today so I'm sure he was shaken up mentally + pressure of needing to grab an ace match win or face the fact that he would be 0-2 for the day and give SKT its first loss for Round 2.
On March 02 2014 22:17 Qwerty85 wrote: SKT underestimated MVP too much. They could have sent Rain against Swagger and it would probably never even get to an ace match.
Nice to see underdogs win.
Yeah a b-teamer for a b-teamer. They even matched up. So it's even I'd say. MVP could've sent Dream or Keen 1st
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
10 pool >15hatch>15 pool>10pool . If SoulKey opened with a 15 hatch he was at a dissadvantage ... It's really hard to defend properly and you can't defend much better then that .
That's just not true lol
Here is scarlett, who afaik is probably best player who ever posts on tl's opinion on the matter
On March 02 2014 22:03 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: ok this game is over already ;x
oh great oracle who won?
If SK micros well its not a hard hold
hmm poor DRG T_T
It went a lot better than expected ;o Koreans stopped doing 10p bane cuz it loses to 15h16p if scouted and the defender has good micro even on a 2p map (this game soulkey went 15h14p). It's just a coinflip on 4p maps if they dont overlord scout you first
On March 02 2014 22:17 Seeker wrote: Ugh... PartinG should have been the ace...
just cos you have him on FPL? haha
soulkey -1 today, sad for me
No. Cause he won his match today. Soulkey lost his match today so I'm sure he was shaken up mentally + pressure of needing to grab an ace match win or face the fact that he would be 0-2 for the day and give SKT its first loss for Round 2.
I think some teams are choosing their Ace prior to the games. Atlest I remember something like that from interviews. Maybe SKT did too.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
I think I have only seen Leenock micro that well.
Soulkey microd well enough to be at a pretty large advantage till he didn't scout and completely misread the situation
Wait, your comment was that SoulKey had a BO win if he microed properly? Or the other way around?
Imo the situation was kind of even after the 8drones killed (though DRG had one or two moments were he could have done more damage and won). DRG had a baneling nest and speed started, SoulKey not even a gas, both on ~9workers. You need ~12workers to utilize a hatch+queen for drones, so SoulKey had no way to initially emphasize on the hatch he had up on DRG and couldn't prevent the hatchery from going down. But yeah, after that it went a little downhill since he didn't drone as hard as he could (missing the hatch timing) and got behind instead of being rouhgly even.
On March 02 2014 22:22 raga4ka wrote: If i was oov i would always have SoulKey and at least two of the Rain/Classic/Parting trio and alternate the last player ...
If I were oov, I would leverage SKT's power over proleague (since they are sponsoring it) to make the format bo7 so I can play SK Rain Classic PartinG Pantaji and soO everyday.
On March 02 2014 22:22 raga4ka wrote: If i was oov i would always have SoulKey and at least two of the Rain/Classic/Parting trio and alternate the last player ...
If I were oov, I would leverage SKT's power over proleague (since they are sponsoring it) to make the format bo7 so I can play SK Rain Classic PartinG Pantaji and soO everyday.
I think a lot of us would be very happy if that happens. But SKT would still lose to KT
On March 02 2014 22:17 Seeker wrote: Ugh... PartinG should have been the ace...
just cos you have him on FPL? haha
soulkey -1 today, sad for me
No. Cause he won his match today. Soulkey lost his match today so I'm sure he was shaken up mentally + pressure of needing to grab an ace match win or face the fact that he would be 0-2 for the day and give SKT its first loss for Round 2.
I think some teams are choosing their Ace prior to the games. Atlest I remember something like that from interviews. Maybe SKT did too.
I think it is mainly due to maps. Since you want players to focus on the map they are getting sent out for. So you don't want everyone to also have to prepare for the Ace map as well. More efficient to have an assigned Ace.
On March 02 2014 22:16 Pangpootata wrote: MVP coach seems awkward around his players, and it's like they don't even want to look him in the eyes.
I have never seen that guy before. I guess they just hired someone after the original MVP owner/coach said "Later bro im going to LoL".
he's actually their old LoL coach who took the team to a championship D:
Huh didnt know that. I feel like maybe Samsung should have gotten that guy instead of the SC2 coach. Its just weird that a coach that has had nothing to do with the SC2 players is suddenly their new owner/coach.
On March 02 2014 22:22 raga4ka wrote: If i was oov i would always have SoulKey and at least two of the Rain/Classic/Parting trio and alternate the last player ...
If I were oov, I would leverage SKT's power over proleague (since they are sponsoring it) to make the format bo7 so I can play SK Rain Classic PartinG Pantaji and soO everyday.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
10 pool >15hatch>15 pool>10pool . If SoulKey opened with a 15 hatch he was at a dissadvantage ... It's really hard to defend properly and you can't defend much better then that .
That's just not true lol
Here is scarlett, who afaik is probably best player who ever posts on tl's opinion on the matter
On March 02 2014 22:03 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: ok this game is over already ;x
oh great oracle who won?
If SK micros well its not a hard hold
hmm poor DRG T_T
It went a lot better than expected ;o Koreans stopped doing 10p bane cuz it loses to 15h16p if scouted and the defender has good micro even on a 2p map (this game soulkey went 15h14p). It's just a coinflip on 4p maps if they dont overlord scout you first
Throwing away all those lings kinda hurt
Still takes a lot of effort to block , one mistake with the micro and you outright lose . If the 10 pool player trades ok and kills a bunch of drones it would end up about equal. As you said it could go either way , but i would rather be an the attacking side with ling/bane vs ling/drones at first isn't easy to hold .
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
I think I have only seen Leenock micro that well.
Soulkey microd well enough to be at a pretty large advantage till he didn't scout and completely misread the situation
Wait, your comment was that SoulKey had a BO win if he microed properly? Or the other way around?
Imo the situation was kind of even after the 8drones killed (though DRG had one or two moments were he could have done more damage and won). DRG had a baneling nest and speed started, SoulKey not even a gas, both on ~9workers. You need ~12workers to utilize a hatch+queen for drones, so SoulKey had no way to initially emphasize on the hatch he had up on DRG and couldn't prevent the hatchery from going down. But yeah, after that it went a little downhill since he didn't drone as hard as he could (missing the hatch timing) and got behind instead of being rouhgly even.
You don't need a baneling nest after you defend that, scouting to see what's going on determines the path he should have chosen, had he scouted the nat going up for drg and droned hard before hitting him with a bunch of roaches that would have been lights out. Drg did way better then he should have with that attack and then sk completely dropped the ball after it, and yes, the comment is that sk has a bo win if he micros properly.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
10 pool >15hatch>15 pool>10pool . If SoulKey opened with a 15 hatch he was at a dissadvantage ... It's really hard to defend properly and you can't defend much better then that .
That's just not true lol
Here is scarlett, who afaik is probably best player who ever posts on tl's opinion on the matter
On March 02 2014 22:10 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
On March 02 2014 22:07 Undead1993 wrote:
On March 02 2014 22:05 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
On March 02 2014 22:04 Undead1993 wrote:
On March 02 2014 22:03 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: ok this game is over already ;x
oh great oracle who won?
If SK micros well its not a hard hold
hmm poor DRG T_T
It went a lot better than expected ;o Koreans stopped doing 10p bane cuz it loses to 15h16p if scouted and the defender has good micro even on a 2p map (this game soulkey went 15h14p). It's just a coinflip on 4p maps if they dont overlord scout you first
Throwing away all those lings kinda hurt
Still takes a lot of effort to block , one mistake with the micro and you outright lose . If the 10 pool player trades ok and kills a bunch of drones it would end up about equal. As you said it could go either way , but i would rather be an the attacking side with ling/bane vs ling/drones at first isn't easy to hold .
You don't need to defend like leenock did, you just need to defend well enough to survive without being utterly crippled.
On March 02 2014 22:13 Scarecrow wrote: Soulkey screwed, DRG just droned way better
it was more than that
SoulKey defended well what was virtually a BO loss . It's really hard to defend 10pool ling/ baneling with 15 hatch , but after that he misread his follow up.
Edit: Or did he open with a 15 pool ?
He had a bo win if he microd properly
10 pool >15hatch>15 pool>10pool . If SoulKey opened with a 15 hatch he was at a dissadvantage ... It's really hard to defend properly and you can't defend much better then that .
That's just not true lol
Here is scarlett, who afaik is probably best player who ever posts on tl's opinion on the matter
On March 02 2014 22:03 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: ok this game is over already ;x
oh great oracle who won?
If SK micros well its not a hard hold
hmm poor DRG T_T
It went a lot better than expected ;o Koreans stopped doing 10p bane cuz it loses to 15h16p if scouted and the defender has good micro even on a 2p map (this game soulkey went 15h14p). It's just a coinflip on 4p maps if they dont overlord scout you first
Throwing away all those lings kinda hurt
I'm pretty sure I saw Shine used this exact same build against SK just recently and won quickly. And Shine is the master of cheese, so the build has to be very advantageous in the right circumstances. I'm certainly not good enough to question Scarlett's opinion, but this might be a special case of being on the right map against the right opponent. Who knows, maybe MVP saw that SK has trouble micro in the early game against cheese or something.
On March 02 2014 22:22 Waxangel wrote: when they said the world would end in 2014, I didn't know they meant that soO would be the best SKT Zerg
soo was top 4 of Jin Air OSL, I didn't see bisu there.
bisu isn't an SKT zerg though
soO is even more underrated now than Best was after 2009, makes top 8 / top 4 in BW / SC2, everyone just laughs it off.
After today's performance I would really expect to see soO play at least one match next week. He's always been pretty solid in SC2 PL too, I think; it actually felt a little dirty to put him on my anti.
On March 02 2014 22:40 w3c.TruE wrote: That's it, i'm not gonna buy SKT1 shirt, and all becouse they lost today to MVP. Now you have it SKT1 players, in your face!
On March 02 2014 22:43 Waxangel wrote: soO is one major's prophecized ones, he's gonna win a championship one day
Back in BW i thought that in the individual leagues Soo , Huyk , S2 were a Ro8 insurance so that Fantasy/Bisu could get to the semifinals safely with all the team kills happening .
On March 02 2014 22:40 w3c.TruE wrote: That's it, i'm not gonna buy SKT1 shirt, and all becouse they lost today to MVP. Now you have it SKT1 players, in your face!
a true fan is here
I haven't meant it seriously. But I'm pretty pissed by their (especially Soulkey's) perfomance today.
On March 02 2014 22:43 Waxangel wrote: soO is one major's prophecized ones, he's gonna win a championship one day
He was pretty close, just ran into Dear who was on fire, I think everybody blacked out the loser of that series though.
I'm pretty sure, that if Dear wouln't have won season finals afterwards, and was eliminated in group stage, like soO was, he would be blacked out too...
Parting always on anti wasn't toooo bad this time, him taking a map and his team losing I can survive. GG MVP, keep it up, way more exciting when more teams claim wins.
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Sacsri <Habitation Station> 
Swagger
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Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Ace Match
Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Ace Match
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