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On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:
[quote]
Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. Show nested quote +My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year.
you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival
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On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:
[quote]
Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival
Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about.
And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent.
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On December 19 2013 09:09 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 08:51 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. maybe the guy who made 20k last week was 50k in debt and needs another 12k? you talk like you know their financial situation He might be, though I strongly suspect it would have leaked out if Nani was that deep in debt. Not very relevant though, since another 4k would not make much of a difference. What if this showmatch had never taken place? I'm pretty sure both players would have been fine if that had been the case. This is a bonus event, with a substantial sum of prize money that exists purely because both players are already highly successful. Had this been between two struggling mid tier foreigners, I'd definitely agree the drop in bitcoin value might have been important.
lol do you know his bank manager or something?
I think you should just let it go. None of us knows what their annual salary is. you are just theory crafting on how life should be fine with 50k a year...
( I find it strange coming from a fella who lives in a country where the life standard and cost of life is so high though )
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On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
[quote]
loll wut??
now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent.
I can't believe you think they don't need money. Holy shit that is hilarious "they don't need money, he made 20k last week so he should be fine". Jesus that isn't even that much if you think long term (you have no idea how much they are making in salary, probably less then what you think it is).
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On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
[quote]
loll wut??
now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent.
Why on earth are you still trying to defend your silly point of view? Anyone can live off minimum wage to pay for food/rent/energy. Does that mean everyone should be content with that?
Fuck no!
It's anyone's right to aim to earn as much money as they can. It's especially anyone's right to save that money up. No one would realistically scoff at 8k/12k, that's just stupid. People tend to be more intelligent, they realize that saving up money means you can use it in the future.
Just because some people can earn more money than the average layman doesn't mean they shouldn't, because they did things that the average layman did not. Being a professional player in esports is very risky no matter which way you look at it, even if you're the best foreigner. Stephano made all that money not through luck but because he was simply that good.
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Fuck the "do they really need money" argument. There is a sad lack of hype in this thread about how TotalBiscuit and Idra are going to cast Scarlett stomping Naniwa's face in.
So bring the hype. And hopefully a new picture for Naniwa... the one in the OP simply is not the same quality as Scarlett. Then again, Naniwa doesn't appear to have a really good concept of showmanship beyond the awkward walk and maybe joking maybe serious how the hell can you tell BM.
Not say he hasn't gotten better... but Scarlett has improved a huge amount over what seems a shorter time.
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So, the match has been postponed or am I wrong?
Wasn't it scheduled for the 19th? Now it's 21th? Maybe I'm mixing something. o.O
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On December 19 2013 10:18 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:
[quote]
Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period.
Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent. I can't believe you think they don't need money. Holy shit that is hilarious "they don't need money, he made 20k last week so he should be fine". Jesus that isn't even that much if you think long term (you have no idea how much they are making in salary, probably less then what you think it is).
They don't need shit. People in here obviously have no concept of need and want. 20k in one week is what most 20~ yr old people make in a year. Reality please.
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I hope there will be a new thread once this starts. This one is so polluted by butthurt >< This is a momentous occasion for foreigner e-sports! Sick that the prize pool is increasing, sick that IdrA will join to cast, sick that we get to see who is better in a series at the very end of the year. SICK.
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On December 19 2013 15:31 jcroisdale wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 10:18 blade55555 wrote:On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
[quote]
i disagree...
of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm )
Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent. I can't believe you think they don't need money. Holy shit that is hilarious "they don't need money, he made 20k last week so he should be fine". Jesus that isn't even that much if you think long term (you have no idea how much they are making in salary, probably less then what you think it is). They don't need shit. People in here obviously have no concept of need and want. 20k in one week is what most 20~ yr old people make in a year. Reality please.
When you consider the dedication, time, and intelligence it takes to be a pro gamer, they're making much less than they should. Most ~20 year olds with a pro gamer skill set put in a lot less hours, and make significantly more money.
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On December 19 2013 15:09 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:
[quote]
Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period.
Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent. Why on earth are you still trying to defend your silly point of view? Anyone can live off minimum wage to pay for food/rent/energy. Does that mean everyone should be content with that? Fuck no! It's anyone's right to aim to earn as much money as they can. It's especially anyone's right to save that money up. No one would realistically scoff at 8k/12k, that's just stupid. People tend to be more intelligent, they realize that saving up money means you can use it in the future. Just because some people can earn more money than the average layman doesn't mean they shouldn't, because they did things that the average layman did not. Being a professional player in esports is very risky no matter which way you look at it, even if you're the best foreigner. Stephano made all that money not through luck but because he was simply that good.
Again, you are arguing against things never said or even insinuated, your reading comprehension seems a bit off. They, or anyone else, can make as much as they want, I don't care. I'm glad both of them got this opportunity. I do not think however, that had this event not taken place, they would have been in any kind of financial trouble. Thus, I concluded that the drop in prize money was not a big deal either way.
That's it, that was the only point. Please stop arguing fantasy strawmen, it's making you look kind of ridiculous.
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On December 19 2013 17:28 Augury wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 15:31 jcroisdale wrote:On December 19 2013 10:18 blade55555 wrote:On December 19 2013 09:25 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 09:10 ROOTFayth wrote:On December 19 2013 07:44 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:
[quote]
Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money.
No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years.
No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more.
Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it. Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain. And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact. My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year. you need the 12k if you want kids though, and they might need the money for whatever it is that their planning, it feels like your definition of "need" is based only upon survival Now who is inventing scenarios? I take what I see, two young people with an unusually high amount of disposable income for their age and low expenses, and draw the conclusion that 12k or 8k, from an event that is basically a bonus for their previous achievements, is not a big deal. You and others started invoking kids, houses, family planning and a host of other factors none of us know anything about. And yes, need in its purest form is survival, but that's not even relevant here, since none of the competitors are on the borderline of poverty, or even close. I still don't get why people bring up house prices in Australia and the US as if it's somehow pertinent. I can't believe you think they don't need money. Holy shit that is hilarious "they don't need money, he made 20k last week so he should be fine". Jesus that isn't even that much if you think long term (you have no idea how much they are making in salary, probably less then what you think it is). They don't need shit. People in here obviously have no concept of need and want. 20k in one week is what most 20~ yr old people make in a year. Reality please. When you consider the dedication, time, and intelligence it takes to be a pro gamer, they're making much less than they should. Most ~20 year olds with a pro gamer skill set put in a lot less hours, and make significantly more money.
I think they are making more than enough for playing a fucking video game, when there are people who work every day trying to save lives who make less. I realize this is a pretty insular community populated largely by adolescents without any real concept of what goes on beyond high school/college, let alone in other countries, but the last few pages are beyond just stupid. The world is full of massively overpaid people, like muscleheads who make 50 million a year from trowing a basketball or swinging a baseball bat. Esports, thankfully, is not there yet, and even our highest earners are still somewhat grounded in the same reality as the rest of us.
"lolololol you can't live off of 20k for 35 years, they need the money, u r stuped lolololol" I can't even begin to describe how moronic this is. The view some people have of what you need for a decent life is hilarious. Tip: try traveling a bit, seeing the uglier parts of the world. 500k house? That's a fantasy for most people on this planet. 8k for playing some video game for a few hours? Try telling the people I met in southern Italy, working minimum wage jobs how that is not enough. The SC community was supposedly an older, more mature esports audience, but this is frankly embarrassing.
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Wow 1235 for Scarlett and 1234 for NaNiwa, 1 vote difference when 2569 people voted is insane!
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Poll: Who takes it?
Scarlett (1242)
50%
Naniwa (1242)
50%
2484 total votes
Damn...
Also if the winner holds onto the bitcoins and by some crazy act of god its values goes up x1000 or more (again), this could be the biggest prize pool not just for a SC2 showmatch, but of any tournament... of any sport.
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Wow squat seems like an angry guy.
Anyway, I heard bitcoin just halved in value, so that affects the showmatch quite a bit, doesn't it?
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TB, I'm just curious, are you the official organizer?
Stay awesome!
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On December 19 2013 21:15 havok55 wrote:Damn... Also if the winner holds onto the bitcoins and by some crazy act of god its values goes up x1000 or more (again), this could be the biggest prize pool not just for a SC2 showmatch, but of any tournament... of any sport.
Or the lowest.
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EPT
