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On December 19 2013 05:11 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 04:47 Caladan wrote:
Price money just got halfed, thanks to the Bitcoin bubble bursting right now.
5000$ is still high though. Let's hope it doesn't go down even further until tomorrow. I might be wrong, but most sites I can find seem to imply that 14 BTC is closer to $8k than $5k.
When writing, BTC was around 450$ and I was counting 12 BTC to compare it with the value mentioned in the OP.
12 * 450$ = 5400$.
Now it is 550$ = 6600$.
This currency is going so fast up and down, it's really hard to write accurate numbers of value down at the moment. That is also why it sucks as a real currency. You can't really plan with it, you can't make prices that last longer than a few hours/days, you can't just save it, and wake up the next day and have your value. You always need to be a part of the gamble.
Just watch this site: http://preev.com/
At the moment, the value goes crazy, it literally goes within *one* second 20 Dollars up and down.
But I'd say just let's ignore that stuff and focus on the match, on SC2, and I think we all agree we have a HELL OF A MATCH tomorrow. :O
Gogo Nani. :O
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more.
Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else.
Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k.
They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality.
I reallyyy doubt this.
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On December 19 2013 06:59 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 05:11 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 04:47 Caladan wrote:
Price money just got halfed, thanks to the Bitcoin bubble bursting right now.
5000$ is still high though. Let's hope it doesn't go down even further until tomorrow. I might be wrong, but most sites I can find seem to imply that 14 BTC is closer to $8k than $5k. When writing, BTC was around 450$ and I was counting 12 BTC to compare it with the value mentioned in the OP. 12 * 450$ = 5400$. Now it is 550$ = 6600$. This currency is going so fast up and down, it's really hard to write accurate numbers of value down at the moment. That is also why it sucks as a real currency. You can't really plan with it, you can't make prices that last longer than a few hours/days, you can't just save it, and wake up the next day and have your value. You always need to be a part of the gamble. Just watch this site: http://preev.com/At the moment, the value goes crazy, it literally goes within *one* second 20 Dollars up and down. But I'd say just let's ignore that stuff and focus on the match, on SC2, and I think we all agree we have a HELL OF A MATCH tomorrow. :O Gogo Nani. :O
Except it's not tomorrow lol.
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Damn, TotalBiscuit, really hyping up our foreign scene! 
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At the time of writing this, the bitcoin is valued at $583.83 per Bitcoin, and after a drastic fall has been slowly rising (and falling a bit, then rising more) Even if the bitcoin is worth $400 at the time during the showmatch, they can can just wait and see if rises. Even now I am seeing fluctuation. http://bitcointicker.co/# No one can say anything to attack the prizepool and at the moment, 583.83 * 14= $8173.62. We will see!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2013 06:59 Caladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 05:11 Zealously wrote:On December 19 2013 04:47 Caladan wrote:
Price money just got halfed, thanks to the Bitcoin bubble bursting right now.
5000$ is still high though. Let's hope it doesn't go down even further until tomorrow. I might be wrong, but most sites I can find seem to imply that 14 BTC is closer to $8k than $5k. When writing, BTC was around 450$ and I was counting 12 BTC to compare it with the value mentioned in the OP. 12 * 450$ = 5400$. Now it is 550$ = 6600$. This currency is going so fast up and down, it's really hard to write accurate numbers of value down at the moment. That is also why it sucks as a real currency. You can't really plan with it, you can't make prices that last longer than a few hours/days, you can't just save it, and wake up the next day and have your value. You always need to be a part of the gamble. Just watch this site: http://preev.com/At the moment, the value goes crazy, it literally goes within *one* second 20 Dollars up and down. But I'd say just let's ignore that stuff and focus on the match, on SC2, and I think we all agree we have a HELL OF A MATCH tomorrow. :O Gogo Nani. :O
14BTC, not 12
Other than that I agree, I think the Bitcoin discussion has been in focus too much since this was announced, though I suppose that was the idea to begin with. Nani'll take this without much trouble.
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On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. Show nested quote +They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this.
Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals.
The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett.
The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it.
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Oh well, by his logic, since they don't need it and not particularly want it, he should tell them to donate them coins to some organizations or something.
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On December 19 2013 07:29 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 07:22 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 07:03 opterown wrote:On December 19 2013 04:30 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 03:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. i disagree... of course theyll both make a 100k a year for 35 years playing sc... ( sarcasm ) Your disagreement has no bearing on the fact that neither of them need the money. No one is going to play this game for 35 years, or be in Esports for that long. They will move on, get regular jobs and support themselves that way. No one but an idiot would expect to live off of Esports earnings for 35 years. No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year. Want more, to buy expensive shit? Sure. But need? No. If you have food to eat, clothes to wear and a place to live, with some money to spare for hobbies and savings, you don't need more. Getting a job later in life can be difficult if you spend a lot of time in eSports, as the skills don't often carry over too well. You'll be starting tertiary education quite a few years later than everyone else. Furthermore, 50-60k may not be sufficient in many countries with a high cost of living. For example, it will be difficult to support a family and mortgage on that salary in Australia, where the average house price is at least 500k. They are in their twenties, and are making more money than most people with full time jobs and college degrees, with very low living expenses. Your definition of need is ridiculous and divorced from reality. I reallyyy doubt this. Why does someone need a house for 500k at age 20-25? Rent an apartment, hold off on getting a family, finish education, profit. Stephano probably has more money than most people his age, even with being a full time student, given how much he made off Sc2. I don't get these arguments about kids and mortgages, these guys aren't in that situation. I'm not talking about living situations in the US or Australia for average people, I'm talking about two specific individuals. The idea of being a competitive pro player is not to have a 20 year career, you do it for a few years, then move on, some special cases aside. Some people work in a restaurant or a grocery store a bit before going to university, some people play games professionally. Ideally, everyone would do part time gaming/part time school. I completely agree that Esports is a rough world and for most people, any little you can get is sorely needed. I just don't think that applies to Naniwa and Scarlett. The thing is that some people want to have kids now. Not everyone is interested in following the formulaic "rent cheap apartment, eat ramen, study, get job, then family" that society seems to be so fond of. I mean I naturally don't know if this applies to Naniwa or Scarlett, but the thing is that being pigeonholed into following a pattern post-progaming isn't something everyone would be happy with. I won't argue that either player needs an additional 4k because I don't actually know what they want to do once they're done with progaming, but arguing that they wouldn't be better off with an additional 4k or that they're not interested in winning 4k extra is a little silly - any additional money won goes toward opening up more possibilities, either during one's progaming career or after it.
Good thing no one said that then. And sure they'd be better off with another 4k, I'd be better off with 100 million euro, I think most people would. But I get by all the same, whereas a lot of people don't. I can't complain.
And yes, some people want kids now. Key word: Want. You don't need a 500k house for that. Some people actually rent an apartment even with a kid, especially when young. A friend of mine is, and they're doing fine on less than 60k a year, quite a bit less in fact.
My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle.
Amendment then: No early-mid twenties childless person without a mortgage needs more than 50-60k a year.
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On December 19 2013 07:28 opterown wrote:
My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle.
are you saying this with the assumption that their significant other does not work as well?
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10k is a lifechanging amount to some people
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On December 19 2013 07:28 opterown wrote:
My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle.
Just wondering, are you talking in Australian dollars or US?
If Australian, I have no idea the exchange rate so will refrain.
If US dollars, it's kind of doable. I mean... the median household income in the US is ~50k with ~2.5 person per household. Though, losing their jobs for too long pretty much spell disaster if they can't keep up on payments on their 30 year mortgages on 500k houses. But if it's a consistent 50-60k a year that consistently keeps up with inflation as well then it is most certainly doable. I've seen plenty of families do it all over the place. Providing a decent living for their families, nothing great, but not terrible.
Though, this is a bit of a stupid debate since we probably have our own versions of what means sensible lifestyle. I get a feeling that might be the root of the argument here.
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On December 19 2013 07:47 kc2siq wrote:
Though, this is a bit of a stupid debate since we probably have our own versions of what means sensible lifestyle. I get a feeling that might be the root of the argument here.
Very possible. My views here may be a little off kilter for a place like this. I spent time in Calcutta and Shanghai, traveled through Mexico and I got to meet people for whom this debate would be unfathomable.
For me, if you can put food on the table, clothes on your back and a roof over your head without having to count every penny you have absolutely nothing to complain about.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 19 2013 07:46 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 07:28 opterown wrote:
My main gripe is how you said "No one with any sensible lifestyle needs more than 50-60k a year." Depending on where you life, you will need more than that to support a family and buy a house, unless you're keen on never having a family and renting for life. I think aspiring for a family in a house you own is a fairly sensible lifestyle. are you saying this with the assumption that their significant other does not work as well?
even on a dual income it can still be quite difficult (well, in Australia at least). especially right now, house prices are getting ridiculous.
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who is this flix1 guy? 3k follower?
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The discussion going on in this thread now is fucking stupid. That being said, GO NANI!
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On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want.
maybe the guy who made 20k last week was 50k in debt and needs another 12k? you talk like you know their financial situation
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On December 19 2013 08:51 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 03:28 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 02:34 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On December 19 2013 01:27 Squat wrote:On December 19 2013 01:11 Sabu113 wrote:On December 19 2013 00:47 Noocta wrote:
Well now it's not the biggest prizepool for a showmatch anymore. =/ Give it 2-3 weeks. Libertarians will hype it back up again. Fundamentally it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to. Money is all about confidence. Libertarians finally being good for something I guess. I honestly don't care whether it's 12k, 6k or 5 dollars, neither of these two need the money. I just want to see them play each other. loll wut?? now pro gamers are making zillions of e-dollars? Believe it or not, but you can be financially secure without being a millionaire. Both of them are on well established teams and have made plenty of money from SC2 in winnings. A guy who just made 20k last week does not need another 12k, period. Again, the difference between need and want. maybe the guy who made 20k last week was 50k in debt and needs another 12k? you talk like you know their financial situation
He might be, though I strongly suspect it would have leaked out if Nani was that deep in debt. Not very relevant though, since another 4k would not make much of a difference. What if this showmatch had never taken place? I'm pretty sure both players would have been fine if that had been the case. This is a bonus event, with a substantial sum of prize money that exists purely because both players are already highly successful.
Had this been between two struggling mid tier foreigners, I'd definitely agree the drop in bitcoin value might have been important.
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EPT
