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On November 10 2013 11:01 hansonslee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:58 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Great tournement...production/casting was all good,,,rushed at the end....
sOs deserved the win....Hero, Polt, Bomber and Jaedong, None could take two games off him... that is dominance!
I liken SC2 to tennis a lot....I feel Jaedong is like Murray...sooo many 2nd places,,,but eventually will make his breakthrough...
sOs is like early Djokovic...stealing the limelight from the big players (Innovation, Soulkey, Dear, Maru and Jaedong.) Yeah, I like how you mentioned JD as Murray. See that? SC2 is becoming more like an actual sport.
tennis is a REAL sport ? ^^ when sc2 is becoming like tennis, oh god no ^^ sc2 is so much more fun ^^
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On November 10 2013 10:45 unigolyn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:43 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:42 unigolyn wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:
[quote]
sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. Wait, so "new best zerg" and "new best terran" are appropriate storylines, but "new best protoss" isn't? What the hell? In what world is sOs the "best new protoss"? Dear held that title coming into this tourney. In the world where sOs won fucking Blizzcon. That is, the actual world we're living in.
'i think KT Zest is just as good. You'll see...
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On November 10 2013 11:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:56 unigolyn wrote:On November 10 2013 10:55 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 unigolyn wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 castlewise wrote:
This was my first time watching the finals live. It was pretty fun. The stream was easy to find, free, and didn't have any lag. (Honestly, I think thats the kind of thing that will grow esports, irregardless of who won.) In other words, Twitch, fix your shit. Somewhat surprisingly, Twitch has worked well enough for me this weekend to keep 3 streams up simultaneously. That never happens. Probably because half of us were watching Blizzard's stream instead. Still, there were upwards what, 115k? 125k? Viewers on the stream at one point. IEM NY lagged like hell at times and that barely scratched 90k.
as if twitch would only lag when it has such big numbers ^^
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On November 10 2013 10:59 10bulgares wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it. And it's not even boring.
But that is what is interesting to watch, how can you enjoy sitting here and watching an easy cheese victory...
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On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
Huk is an illusion 
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On November 10 2013 10:59 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:57 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:55 forsooth wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 Ljas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 DiLiGu wrote:
I'm soooo tired of disappointing tournaments. When was the last time someone won who anyone cared about? Around five minutes ago. Polt's WCS AM win, Mvp's WCS Europe win. I think one of the troubles with Protoss is that there's kind of a revolving door when it comes to the best players. We've had a lot of them come out of nowhere, dominate for a little while, and then fade away and not come back. Parting, Squirtle, Seed, and Rain (I'm probably missing someone) all had their moments but haven't shown championship form in a while. Now we have Dear and sOs sitting at the top of the mountain, and who knows how long they'll last? That's a lot of players coming and going over the course of just a couple years. The only real exception to the rule is MC, who had an extended period of dominance and also a great ability to win over fans with showmanship and a willingness to speak as much English as he was able to. Now look at Terran. Mvp has won championships in 3 different years, and along with Polt and Bomber has been relevant since 2011. MMA is back too, and he's also been around since 2011. MKP had his time and Innovation did too, and Maru is looking great recently, but we're still looking at those first four names in the top 16 players of the year-end tournament even after all this time. It's a stark contrast. Exactly! Thank you for getting it. Both Polt and Mvp's wins were incredible, and you nailed the situation on the head with the Protoss revolving door thing. Except my who got stuck in the revolving door cause he ate too much and now he's always there.
I don't feel like PartinG or Rain are out though. They made strong showings in the wcs kr (multiple ro8+). Parting also won 10k$ in a tournament in china, dismantling everyone else and qualified brilliantly for the red bull batlegrounds.
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On November 10 2013 11:02 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow. Warpgate?
Yep, no discussion.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:00 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 SkullZ9 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:45 hipo wrote:On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:
Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.
Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?
EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles It is incredible but the most consistent player of the year is Soulkey :D In the hardest region, where JD struggled to make it in :D If you imply that JD is not at the level of WCS korea, you should maybe think of the fact that he beat the champions of season 2 and season 3 in his run this weekend I imply that JD was Code A at most when he moved to WCS AM. As all koreans, he improves fast if he wants. That's cheap. Jaedong is not like all koreans, he is special. His improvement is not normal and not all koreans can get that good just because they want. I won't list names now.
Innovation went from getting crushed by Soulkey after latter going fake roach speed into 2 hatch muta against 3 CC 2 EB to crushing Life in standard game (kinda) 2-0 3 days later. And i would argue that Life was considered to have better ZvT back then.
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On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
haha, Huk is the Gateway.
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On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
I can see him as a zealot. Didn't he start the gasless 8 gate ?
edit - oh well, if he can be a warpgate even better.
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On November 10 2013 11:01 DiLiGu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:59 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:
[quote]
Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Are you fucking SERIOUS? You called him a faceless korean that literally 0 people care about for about 30 pages of this thread. Tell me, how did Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa all gain their hype? faeries? wizards? pixie dust? He IS faceless compared to those stars! How can you even compare!? I never once called him "all in protoss scum" (taken from another LR thread), or once balanced whined. To imply that, coming into the tourney, he controlled more than 1% of the total fanbase is absurd.
Youre right, he's not as famous as those people - but I didnt question that, and you didnt answer my question. How did people become fans of those players?
Because they won shit.
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United States97276 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:02 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow. Warpgate?
rather lack of
maybe twilight council
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Northern Ireland27329 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:59 DiLiGu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:58 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:
[quote]
Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle. I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. I don't get why people even want SC to get to that level. The obnoxiousness of discussions between fans of 'real sports' is directly correlative to the big reach they have imo. The kind of discourse that happens on TL (or a similar central hub) would not be possible. You say that, because you're not a member of eliteish sites on mainstream sports (I assume). Why wouldn't you want this game to become massively financially successful?
Having to have discussions about sports with people who are 'big fans' and know shit all.
Being unable to work a shift on a Saturday or Sunday and get home to see the results spoiler free without people harping on that 'we beat your boys' as if they had something to do with it.
Niches are nice. A sustainable scene would be nice, a scene with the crass commercialism, ubiqutous and never-ending news coverage (like E-sports drama x10).
Nah yer alright.
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On November 10 2013 10:51 unigolyn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:48 Stinkie wrote:
What a bad final. Not even the games but the time after that. Just cut of the stream and thats all? Nothing more? Weird... Uh, there was a ceremony, with confetti and everything. I can't think of a single tournament that has some sort of variety hour after they crown the winner.
Yes but that was the Grad final, the thing we waited 8 months for. I expected a lot more and not just "oh, we have no time anymore, peace". ...
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VODs of the final are yet available ?!
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively)
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On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it.
lol no, just no. I can promise you theres not one single remotely succesful foreign player who thinks like that.
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On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list.
nani probe i dunno about rain here parting has insanely good ht splits imo parting gets both ht and immortal
hero obviously warpprism, and then phoenix goes to this guy who was hyped up as hell with his 2 sg phoenix build during some qualifier not sure if it was myungsik
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...as a protoss you not win tournaments with long macro games with pure skill vs zerg ... its impossible
It's not. If you feel like it is, it's your problem.
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I don't think we should be surprised that the second-place finisher in this year's WCS Korea ended up winning the global finals. Korea is by far the most competitive league. sOs is an extremely talented player, even if he wasn't the player the fans were hoping would win. That's sports.
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EPT
