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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:02 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 SkullZ9 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:45 hipo wrote:On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:
Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.
Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?
EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles It is incredible but the most consistent player of the year is Soulkey :D In the hardest region, where JD struggled to make it in :D If you imply that JD is not at the level of WCS korea, you should maybe think of the fact that he beat the champions of season 2 and season 3 in his run this weekend I imply that JD was Code A at most when he moved to WCS AM. As all koreans, he improves fast if he wants. That's cheap. Jaedong is not like all koreans, he is special. His improvement is not normal and not all koreans can get that good just because they want. I won't list names now. Innovation went from getting crushed by Soulkey after latter going fake roach speed into 2 hatch muta against 3 CC 2 EB to crushing Life in standard game (kinda) 2-0 3 days later. And i would argue that Life was considered to have better ZvT back then.
2-0ing Life on that particular day wasn't that much of an accomplishment though 
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None of these whining Jaedong bandwagonners actually follow starcraft. If they did, they would know that sOs is the better player and has been the better player for a year and a half. They would know that he was one of the top 5 performers in proleague and finished consistently high in code S season after season. They would know that Jaedong was a mediocre player for most of his sc2 career up until 4-5 months ago when he finally showed some drastic improvement. In this sense, sOs is the veteran and Jaedong is the new kid on the block.
These are not starcraft fans, these are sheep. Yes, that was intentional. Did they even know that these two finalists were on the same BW team together?
sOs doesn't need to play with unique builds to beat anyone. His mechanics are S class and he has won plenty of games against strong opponents with standard play. He just loves to innovate.
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On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively)
I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:04 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 11:00 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 SkullZ9 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:45 hipo wrote:On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:
Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.
Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?
EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles It is incredible but the most consistent player of the year is Soulkey :D In the hardest region, where JD struggled to make it in :D If you imply that JD is not at the level of WCS korea, you should maybe think of the fact that he beat the champions of season 2 and season 3 in his run this weekend I imply that JD was Code A at most when he moved to WCS AM. As all koreans, he improves fast if he wants. That's cheap. Jaedong is not like all koreans, he is special. His improvement is not normal and not all koreans can get that good just because they want. I won't list names now. Innovation went from getting crushed by Soulkey after latter going fake roach speed into 2 hatch muta against 3 CC 2 EB to crushing Life in standard game (kinda) 2-0 3 days later. And i would argue that Life was considered to have better ZvT back then. 2-0ing Life on that particular day wasn't that much of an accomplishment though
Well, if we go with this logic, we can end up with Innovation's GSL run being a fluke :D
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btw if someone plays so good a year to become top16 and then win the god damn thing with X-1 always, why people still call him weak or "worse player" ... thats like calling the boxer who went k.o. "oh he was boxing better" ... like who the hell cares
a famous quite is "a win is a win is a win is ... a win" and thats what count
your better when you win, if you lose, you was NOT better, whatever fanboys tells ^^ in soccer last week dortmund played fantastic vs arsenal was the way better team and lost 0-1 ... sure you can say dortmund was better but ... next week no one cares anymore because well "the winner takes it all"
edit: also if i read all the whines and bs postings ... its a really rare candy handet out huh ? xD
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On November 10 2013 10:56 Louuster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. how is the beesuit not the DT?!?
Because he is the corsair!
Edit: as Stork is the reeboooo and Jangbi the original HT.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix.
Nah, sOs is CHARGELOT
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Warp Prism is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Right, that's what I meant.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:
[quote]
Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.
On November 10 2013 08:33 DiLiGu wrote:
he has zero story. He is 100% a nobody. No one cares about sOs.
sOs winning is the worst possible situation for this tournament.
On November 10 2013 09:50 DiLiGu wrote:
sOs, you're good, but I hope you choke like a first-day hooker.
On November 10 2013 10:21 DiLiGu wrote:
Who the hell is sOs?
On November 10 2013 10:23 DiLiGu wrote:
Faceless Korean takes it!
i dno kev
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On November 10 2013 11:01 marcesr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:
[quote]
sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle. I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Yeah thats what I mean. Technically you are right in what you are saying BUT complaining about the circumstances wont help anyone. I mean if you convinced people that the results etc. sucked, that would hurt the scene even more.
it's just heartbreaking to spend weeks organizing an event and bracket pool, and then watch everyone's heart sink during the finals, then watch sidebar conversations about The Office starting because it looks like "the guy that no one picked" is going to win.
The results are disappointing for the majority of the community - you can argue and call me a hater all you want, but it's a small minority of JD anti-fans that are posting about licking fanboy tears.
Great tournament, wish it'd had a better end. I'm out for the night.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:05 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix. Nah, sOs is CHARGELOT
CANNON
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Pretty good, at least the finals wasn't a 4-0
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:05 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:04 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 11:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 11:00 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 SkullZ9 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:45 hipo wrote:On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:
Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.
Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?
EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles It is incredible but the most consistent player of the year is Soulkey :D In the hardest region, where JD struggled to make it in :D If you imply that JD is not at the level of WCS korea, you should maybe think of the fact that he beat the champions of season 2 and season 3 in his run this weekend I imply that JD was Code A at most when he moved to WCS AM. As all koreans, he improves fast if he wants. That's cheap. Jaedong is not like all koreans, he is special. His improvement is not normal and not all koreans can get that good just because they want. I won't list names now. Innovation went from getting crushed by Soulkey after latter going fake roach speed into 2 hatch muta against 3 CC 2 EB to crushing Life in standard game (kinda) 2-0 3 days later. And i would argue that Life was considered to have better ZvT back then. 2-0ing Life on that particular day wasn't that much of an accomplishment though Well, if we go with this logic, we can end up with Innovation's GSL run being a fluke :D
Absolutely not a fluke, but Life wasn't exactly in top shape that day
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On November 10 2013 11:02 WarWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:59 10bulgares wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it. And it's not even boring. But that is what is interesting to watch, how can you enjoy sitting here and watching an easy cheese victory...
It's rarely easy. There's often a long moment when you don't know what will be the outcome of the cheese that is very enjoyable. Not always though, I agree but then it's good that the players are under pressure having to think of possible cheeses at the same time as they're trying to follow their plans. It adds spice to the play.
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On November 10 2013 11:05 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix. Nah, sOs is CHARGELOT
yeah well phoenix, archon, chargelot, one of those
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Northern Ireland25468 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix.
Clue is in the OP picture
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:05 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:05 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix. Nah, sOs is CHARGELOT CANNON
CHARGENON!?
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On November 10 2013 11:05 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:
[quote]
sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle. Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 08:33 DiLiGu wrote:
he has zero story. He is 100% a nobody. No one cares about sOs.
sOs winning is the worst possible situation for this tournament. Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 09:50 DiLiGu wrote:
sOs, you're good, but I hope you choke like a first-day hooker. i dno kev
I lold quite a bit there.
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Bisutopia19246 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:01 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:59 BisuDagger wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:55 forsooth wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 Ljas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 DiLiGu wrote:
I'm soooo tired of disappointing tournaments. When was the last time someone won who anyone cared about? Around five minutes ago. Polt's WCS AM win, Mvp's WCS Europe win. I think one of the troubles with Protoss is that there's kind of a revolving door when it comes to the best players. We've had a lot of them come out of nowhere, dominate for a little while, and then fade away and not come back. Parting, Squirtle, Seed, and Rain (I'm probably missing someone) all had their moments but haven't shown championship form in a while. Now we have Dear and sOs sitting at the top of the mountain, and who knows how long they'll last? That's a lot of players coming and going over the course of just a couple years. The only real exception to the rule is MC, who had an extended period of dominance and also a great ability to win over fans with showmanship and a willingness to speak as much English as he was able to. Now look at Terran. Mvp has won championships in 3 different years, and along with Polt and Bomber has been relevant since 2011. MMA is back too, and he's also been around since 2011. MKP had his time and Innovation did too, and Maru is looking great recently, but we're still looking at those first four names in the top 16 players of the year-end tournament even after all this time. It's a stark contrast. Exactly! Thank you for getting it. Both Polt and Mvp's wins were incredible, and you nailed the situation on the head with the Protoss revolving door thing. Except my who got stuck in the revolving door cause he ate too much and now he's always there. MC? Was that the joke you were going 5?
That gave me a good laugh  Edited the post. and Yes MC
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EPT
