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On November 10 2013 10:57 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:53 SkullZ9 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:45 hipo wrote:On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:
Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.
Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?
EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles It is incredible but the most consistent player of the year is Soulkey :D In the hardest region, where JD struggled to make it in :D If you imply that JD is not at the level of WCS korea, you should maybe think of the fact that he beat the champions of season 2 and season 3 in his run this weekend I imply that JD was Code A at most when he moved to WCS AM. As all koreans, he improves fast if he wants.
That's cheap. Jaedong is not like all koreans, he is special. His improvement is not normal and not all koreans can get that good just because they want. I won't list names now.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo.
This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really.
So it's :
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
In addition:
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively)
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:56 unigolyn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:55 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:53 unigolyn wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 castlewise wrote:
This was my first time watching the finals live. It was pretty fun. The stream was easy to find, free, and didn't have any lag. (Honestly, I think thats the kind of thing that will grow esports, irregardless of who won.) In other words, Twitch, fix your shit. Somewhat surprisingly, Twitch has worked well enough for me this weekend to keep 3 streams up simultaneously. That never happens. Probably because half of us were watching Blizzard's stream instead.
Still, there were upwards what, 115k? 125k? Viewers on the stream at one point. IEM NY lagged like hell at times and that barely scratched 90k.
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On November 10 2013 10:59 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:57 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:55 forsooth wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 Ljas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 DiLiGu wrote:
I'm soooo tired of disappointing tournaments. When was the last time someone won who anyone cared about? Around five minutes ago. Polt's WCS AM win, Mvp's WCS Europe win. I think one of the troubles with Protoss is that there's kind of a revolving door when it comes to the best players. We've had a lot of them come out of nowhere, dominate for a little while, and then fade away and not come back. Parting, Squirtle, Seed, and Rain (I'm probably missing someone) all had their moments but haven't shown championship form in a while. Now we have Dear and sOs sitting at the top of the mountain, and who knows how long they'll last? That's a lot of players coming and going over the course of just a couple years. The only real exception to the rule is MC, who had an extended period of dominance and also a great ability to win over fans with showmanship and a willingness to speak as much English as he was able to. Now look at Terran. Mvp has won championships in 3 different years, and along with Polt and Bomber has been relevant since 2011. MMA is back too, and he's also been around since 2011. MKP had his time and Innovation did too, and Maru is looking great recently, but we're still looking at those first four names in the top 16 players of the year-end tournament even after all this time. It's a stark contrast. Exactly! Thank you for getting it. Both Polt and Mvp's wins were incredible, and you nailed the situation on the head with the Protoss revolving door thing. Except my who got stuck in the revolving door cause he ate too much and now he's always there.
MC? Was that the joke you were going 5?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively)
I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
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On November 10 2013 10:58 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Great tournement...production/casting was all good,,,rushed at the end....
sOs deserved the win....Hero, Polt, Bomber and Jaedong, None could take two games off him... that is dominance!
I liken SC2 to tennis a lot....I feel Jaedong is like Murray...sooo many 2nd places,,,but eventually will make his breakthrough...
sOs is like early Djokovic...stealing the limelight from the big players (Innovation, Soulkey, Dear, Maru and Jaedong.)
Yeah, I like how you mentioned JD as Murray. See that? SC2 is becoming more like an actual sport.
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On November 10 2013 10:59 10bulgares wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it. And it's not even boring.
sos is the funniest player from his build orders ... i think every other 15 players are counted more boring when it comes to builds then sos ... its just whiners here in the thread
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On November 10 2013 10:47 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:46 Penguinator wrote:
I'm honestly depressed now. Like physically and mentally fucking depressed after watching that. I want to curl up in a warm blanket and do heroin... Why couldn't Jaedong just win? He's worked so hard... He just won 45k. Can enjoy the rest of the night with all the ladies.
it's not all about the money man. i'm pretty sure that jaedong is not very happy with this second place.
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On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:
[quote]
Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle. I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa.
Yeah thats what I mean. Technically you are right in what you are saying BUT complaining about the circumstances wont help anyone.
I mean if you convinced people that the results etc. sucked, that would hurt the scene even more.
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On November 10 2013 10:45 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:Sad. Another faceless champion. At least a Kespa player won.  GGs! Thanks ESL for this fantastic production! Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. I like good games. I don't like overhyped players. Storylines never come first. A progamer doesn't have to grow the community. A progamer has to play the game, play it well, and produce results.
Well, so you think SOS is the best and most consistent player right now ? If everytime"results are the only thing matters For you then you have to aggree.
Sports always live of its fanbase, If you cant produce a fanbase because everytime another player becomes the Champion, then you cant have popular sports. tournamets are made to find out whos the best . If everytime anotherone prooves to be the best, then you loose confidence in that sport. because how can everyone be the best .
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On November 10 2013 10:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:51 chatuka wrote:
that's like that. Styles make fights. JD isn't used a player like SOS that's willing to cheeze all in every game. a different mind set of a different player like FLash could probably crush that strat Flash? He seems even worse at dealing with that type of stuff as far as sc2 goes. He had the starsense in BW, but not so much in sc2.
flash was always good at scouting. I think that trend will continue in SC2. FLash is playing a completely different game, it's going to take time
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I'm legitimately sad 
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On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
Gateway is Huk.
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On November 10 2013 10:59 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:
[quote]
sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Are you fucking SERIOUS? You called him a faceless korean that literally 0 people care about for about 30 pages of this thread. Tell me, how did Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa all gain their hype? faeries? wizards? pixie dust?
He IS faceless compared to those stars! How can you even compare!? I never once called him "all in protoss scum" (taken from another LR thread), or once balanced whined. To imply that, coming into the tourney, he controlled more than 1% of the total fanbase is absurd.
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On November 10 2013 10:59 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:30 Jonvvv wrote:
sOs outplayed Jaedong, showing absolute brilliance in all three matchups through the tournament. I was rooting for Jaedong to take it, but you can't take anything away from sOs, well deserved champion. (Not saying Jaedong don't deserve it, but sOs was the better player) i respect your opinion, but i disagree. sometimes the better player or team loses. luck is a factor as is conditions, confidence, and mind games, psyche outs.
Implying that JD was the better player ? i doubt that, right now sOs is a better player than JD, maybe not in micro, maybe not in macro but overall yes he is...
JD can be the better player, but not right now
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On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
Hallucinated Void-Ray maybe
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter. And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon. + Show Spoiler +Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list.
nah creator can be a forge
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Time to re watch amazing series that I missed.
This should last me for a week
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:01 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I feel like we gotta slip huk in there somehow.
Warpgate?
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On November 10 2013 10:59 WarWolf wrote:
Do you guys really feel these were interesting games to watch? I mean, seriously.
Games 1 and 3 weren't but i thought 2, 4 and 5 of the finals were. Also, your question is a bit vague - overall the tournament had lots of very good (and interesting) games.
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EPT
