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Balance whine ends now (2:03 KST). Bans will be issued (I can't believe we have to do this again...) |
On September 06 2013 05:07 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:06 Musicus wrote:On September 06 2013 05:05 Doublemint wrote:On September 06 2013 05:02 LemonyTang wrote:
SC2 is dead without Mvp. Stop talking shit - it died long ago! That's why Husky made a zombie map. Husky is on the right track then 
so the game is undead?
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On September 06 2013 05:02 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 04:59 vthree wrote:On September 06 2013 04:54 Doublemint wrote:On September 06 2013 04:48 vthree wrote:On September 06 2013 04:40 samurai80 wrote:On September 06 2013 04:34 PanzerElite wrote:On September 06 2013 04:33 samurai80 wrote:
Ooooooooh yeaahhhh Showtime !!!!! I would have been so pissed if Mvp won again with this shit. protoss detected Don't need to be a toss to think that these SCV pulls all night long are boring/ugly. Well, to be fair. The whole match up has a big issue. The MSC was added so toss could be more aggressive (Protoss couldn't move out of their base in WoL due to threat of drops). But Protoss have actually been more defensive with the MSC and just tech'ed up. The fact that map control doesn't matter at all in this match up (until late game when contesting the fourth) makes it boring as hell. Show time played well but honestly, it wasn't like he was mixing up his play much. Get upgrade, colo, have obs covering the map and defend drops. The only reason that Mvp's push in game 2 work was that Mvp got the third when it was building so that delayed the Protoss enough to hit his timing. He played very solid macro games... apart from the botched allin in the first series. And people crying so much about TvP after that series - just think about the TvT MVP played against noname. Those were basically gifted to MVP as he was in both in bad spots and noname threw the games. MVP was far from playing his A-game, lag or no lag. That is my point. A solid macro game in the current TvP meta is the P sitting in his base defending drops. There is no urgency to have 'map control'. I am not blaming showtime, he is playing to the meta. But I would prefer macro games when both sides are positioning their army to get map control and making pokes here and there. Besides the obs, showtime didn't need to move his army cross the half way point until he was maxed. That is just not entertaining to watch. To be fair, most of toss macro games look exactly like this no matter the meta. I remember there was a protoss that actually played entertaining macro game that did not involve turtling until deathball (while keeping terran busy with warp-ins, lol).
One could perhaps make a reasonable argument that the problem here is not that Protoss tend to spend a lot of time turtling and defending and then moving out once it's murder time. BW terran did this vs BW Protoss almost every game. It's that the payoff from all this suspense tends not to be as rewarding for viewers. A BW terran mech army was a thing of ponderous murder beauty but the Protoss deathball kinda just murders everything that gets with 6 range.
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On September 06 2013 05:08 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:07 Doublemint wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 Musicus wrote:On September 06 2013 05:05 Doublemint wrote:On September 06 2013 05:02 LemonyTang wrote:
SC2 is dead without Mvp. Stop talking shit - it died long ago! That's why Husky made a zombie map. Husky is on the right track then so the game is undead?
We've been playing Warcraft all along.
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On September 06 2013 04:48 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 04:40 samurai80 wrote:On September 06 2013 04:34 PanzerElite wrote:On September 06 2013 04:33 samurai80 wrote:
Ooooooooh yeaahhhh Showtime !!!!! I would have been so pissed if Mvp won again with this shit. protoss detected Don't need to be a toss to think that these SCV pulls all night long are boring/ugly. Well, to be fair. The whole match up has a big issue. The MSC was added so toss could be more aggressive (Protoss couldn't move out of their base in WoL due to threat of drops). But Protoss have actually been more defensive with the MSC and just tech'ed up. The fact that map control doesn't matter at all in this match up (until late game when contesting the fourth) makes it boring as hell. Show time played well but honestly, it wasn't like he was mixing up his play much. Get upgrade, colo, have obs covering the map and defend drops. The only reason that Mvp's push in game 2 work was that Mvp got the third when it was building so that delayed the Protoss enough to hit his timing.
Well let's just say today wasn't a great TvP day. There has definitely been much better TvPs recently. Well I guess Mvp's lag didn't help but it's his choice to stay in Korea and the result is that it wasn't pretty.
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I watched MVP play against Showtime on Whirlwind... Let's just say that I wasn't fond of the SCV pull and thought MVP should have taken a third expo. But if he did, then he would've lost anyways because Protoss deathball = GG for Terrans... It was an awfully close hold though, and MVP tried to make the best of the situation. If Showtime pulled his Probes earlier, I think he might have had an easier chance at holding it, and not barely come out on top of that engagement.
Slowly but surely giving up on SC2..
I think this isn't balance whine?
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it's showtime baby! exactly the results i've been hoping for
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 06 2013 05:09 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 04:59 vthree wrote:On September 06 2013 04:54 Doublemint wrote:On September 06 2013 04:48 vthree wrote:On September 06 2013 04:40 samurai80 wrote:On September 06 2013 04:34 PanzerElite wrote:On September 06 2013 04:33 samurai80 wrote:
Ooooooooh yeaahhhh Showtime !!!!! I would have been so pissed if Mvp won again with this shit. protoss detected Don't need to be a toss to think that these SCV pulls all night long are boring/ugly. Well, to be fair. The whole match up has a big issue. The MSC was added so toss could be more aggressive (Protoss couldn't move out of their base in WoL due to threat of drops). But Protoss have actually been more defensive with the MSC and just tech'ed up. The fact that map control doesn't matter at all in this match up (until late game when contesting the fourth) makes it boring as hell. Show time played well but honestly, it wasn't like he was mixing up his play much. Get upgrade, colo, have obs covering the map and defend drops. The only reason that Mvp's push in game 2 work was that Mvp got the third when it was building so that delayed the Protoss enough to hit his timing. He played very solid macro games... apart from the botched allin in the first series. And people crying so much about TvP after that series - just think about the TvT MVP played against noname. Those were basically gifted to MVP as he was in both in bad spots and noname threw the games. MVP was far from playing his A-game, lag or no lag. That is my point. A solid macro game in the current TvP meta is the P sitting in his base defending drops. There is no urgency to have 'map control'. I am not blaming showtime, he is playing to the meta. But I would prefer macro games when both sides are positioning their army to get map control and making pokes here and there. Besides the obs, showtime didn't need to move his army cross the half way point until he was maxed. That is just not entertaining to watch. To be fair, most of toss macro games look exactly like this no matter the meta. I remember there was a protoss that actually played entertaining macro game that did not involve turtling until deathball (while keeping terran busy with warp-ins, lol). One could perhaps make a reasonable argument that the problem here is not that Protoss tend to spend a lot of time turtling and defending and then moving out once it's murder time. BW terran did this vs BW Protoss almost every game. It's that the payoff from all this suspense tends not to be as rewarding for viewers. A BW terran mech army was a thing of ponderous murder beauty but the Protoss deathball kinda just murders everything that gets with 6 range.
Perhaps. Never liked mech in BW for a reason of slowly murdering everything after turtling for x minutes.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it
It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes.
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in the last game there was no reason for MVP to pull his scvs imho. he had a third base up and running right?
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On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes.
Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy
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On September 06 2013 05:13 farnham wrote:
in the last game there was no reason for MVP to pull his scvs imho. he had a third base up and running right?
He didn't want to play the ghost v Templar game.
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On September 06 2013 05:13 farnham wrote:
in the last game there was no reason for MVP to pull his scvs imho. he had a third base up and running right?
Lategame would be completely unplayable with the KR-EU delay; and even without said delay, you don't want to enter this phase as a Terran.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 06 2013 05:13 farnham wrote:
in the last game there was no reason for MVP to pull his scvs imho. he had a third base up and running right?
He was planning to do SCV pull from the beginning of the game actually. I remember SuperNova doing the same build.
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On September 06 2013 05:13 farnham wrote:
in the last game there was no reason for MVP to pull his scvs imho. he had a third base up and running right?
He has to get something done before Showtime maxes on 3/3. It's incredibly hard to beat a maxed protoss army that's a full upgrade round ahead of you even with all your scvs, as was demonstrated. Showtime was able to secure 3 base with tons of upgrades and MVP was powerless to stop this, so, choo choo!!!!!!!!!!!
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On September 06 2013 05:14 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes. Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy
Why are you calling a Tempest transition "cheese"?
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On September 06 2013 05:14 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:14 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes. Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy Why are you calling a Tempest transition "cheese"?
Sarcasm
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United States97276 Posts
Wow Showtime taking out San and Mvp in WCS EU now. TT Good results for this guy though. Congrats to him
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On September 06 2013 05:15 NovaMB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:14 TheDwf wrote:On September 06 2013 05:14 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes. Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy Why are you calling a Tempest transition "cheese"? Sarcasm
Time to fix my detector!
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On September 06 2013 05:16 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:15 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:14 TheDwf wrote:On September 06 2013 05:14 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes. Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy Why are you calling a Tempest transition "cheese"? Sarcasm Time to fix my detector!
Happy birthday!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 06 2013 05:16 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 05:15 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:14 TheDwf wrote:On September 06 2013 05:14 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:12 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:06 NovaMB wrote:On September 06 2013 05:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 06 2013 05:03 Musicus wrote:
Everbody thinking that no terran besides Taeja can win without SCV pulls should watch some Happy games (warning: this will take a while). Happy vs HasuObs on daybreak. Watch it. And it was season 1, by the way. If you have time, alot of it It was not really long game though. I believe it ended around time Hasu got around 5 or so tempests. So it lasted around 40 minutes. Yeah I forgot, he basically cheesed the shit outta Happy Why are you calling a Tempest transition "cheese"? Sarcasm Time to fix my detector!
Happy b-day, at least you had your portion of terran winning TvPs :D
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EPT
