Day 1 Recap The first day of Training Grounds was packed with exciting games! At this point, all 8 players are still in the running to advance to the championship bracket on Sunday. See below for a recap of yesterday's action!
Sound (2) vs. Grubby (1) DeMusliM (1) vs. Golden (2) Kane (2) vs. ViBE (1) puCK (2) vs. SeleCT (1) Sound (3) vs. ViBE (0) puCK (0) vs. Golden (3)
Day 2 Recap The second day of Training Grounds was a nail biter! Ultimately, four players emerged victorious and primed to fight in the Sunday championship bracket. + Show Spoiler [Day 2 Results] +
Grubby (2) vs. ViBE (1) DeMusliM (3) vs. SeleCT (0) Sound (2) vs. Kane (1) DeMusliM (2) vs. puCK (1) Kane (2) vs. Grubby (1) Golden (2) vs. SeleCT (1)
We are ecstatic to announce the inaugural event of our exciting 2013 Red Bull eSports season: Red Bull Training Grounds #1! The event will commence in Santa Monica, California beginning Friday June 21st and running through Sunday June 23rd and feature a prize pool of $8600.
With this premiere event, we will build upon the successes of our 2012 eSports season and kick off 2013 with a bang. Red Bull Training Grounds has been uniquely designed to offer viewers an unparalleled view into high performance gaming alongside the same great entertaining tournaments they have come to expect from our series.
Eight participating players will scrimmage in a series of round-robin matches over the course of the first two days, giving each player the opportunity to experience one another's signature tactics and evasive rebuttals. At the completion of each match, players head to the analysis booth to discuss and critique their performance, giving the audience at home a bleacher seat to the training regimes and techniques of top players, gaining strategic insight right alongside the pros. All matches in this group-play section are best of three and all three games of each will be played in full. To increase the stakes, the winner of each game in this segment of the tournament will take home an additional $100.
Day three of Red Bull Training Grounds culminates in a tournament consisting of the top four players still standing (two from each group). Reconvening for a final day of competitive play, the winner will walk away with the top prize and an invitation to a future high stakes tournament.
Be sure to follow us for live updates throughout the weekend at @redbullESPORTS.
World class play deserves world class casting, especially when there is such an emphasis on training and improvement! With that, we're happy to announce that the event will be covered by three of the best minds in the industry.
The eight participants have been invited from the cream of the eSports crop of European and North American pros.
Group 1: Grubby, Sound, Kane, ViBE
Group 2: DeMusliM, puCK, SeleCT, Golden
Red Bull Training Grounds will take place in Santa Monica, California live from Red Bull's North American Headquarters. The action-packed three day event will be covered by a studio-style production consisting of a small invite-only studio audience and unfortunately not open to the general public.
Make sure to stay tuned each day to catch all of the action! The online broadcast will kick-off on Friday at 2:00 PDT on http://www.twitch.tv/redbullESPORTS.
Day 1 - Friday June 21st - All Group 1 Matches 2:00pm PDT | 23:00 CEST | Event Begins 2:15pm PDT | 23:15 CEST | Sound vs. Grubby 3:15pm PDT | 00:15 CEST | DeMusliM vs. Golden 4:15pm PDT | 01:15 CEST | Kane vs. ViBE 5:15pm PDT | 02:15 CEST | puCK vs. SeleCT 6:15pm PDT | 03:15 CEST | Sound vs. ViBE 7:15pm PDT | 04:15 CEST | puCK vs. Golden
Day 2 - Saturday June 22nd - All Group 2 Matches 2:00pm PDT | 23:00 CEST | Event Begins 2:15pm PDT | 23:15 CEST | Grubby vs. ViBE 3:15pm PDT | 00:15 CEST | DeMusliM vs. SeleCT 4:15pm PDT | 01:15 CEST | Sound vs. Kane 5:15pm PDT | 02:15 CEST | DeMusliM vs. puCK 6:15pm PDT | 03:15 CEST | Kane vs. Grubby 7:15pm PDT | 04:15 CEST | Golden vs. SeleCT
Day 3 - Sunday June 23rd - Championship RO4 Bracket 2:00pm PDT | 23:00 CEST | Event Begins 2:15pm PDT | 23:15 CEST | Semi Finals Match 1 3:15pm PDT | 00:15 CEST | Semi Finals Match 2 4:15pm PDT | 01:15 CEST | Grand Finals
FUCK YES, this lines up so well with GSTL for me. Get home from school, take 3 hour nap, stay up to 3am till the GSTL match ends while also having the Red Bull training grounds in the middle ^^
Red Bull eSports, I feel estatic to have you officially eSports :D
Redbull's Esports site is incredible. Kudos to their team for all the articles, interviews, PC hardware highlights (Falcon Northwest style!) and the amazing photography.
I'm definetly tuning in. Husky is the best, I miss him on other tourneys. Also, it doesn't have a full-on korean lineup, given who's sponsoring it. Demuslim's demolishing on the ladder lately, been training like crazy, hope he gets at least a top4
Ok this is completely irrelevent but holy crap the players are on herman miller's aeron chairs, aka the best goddamn chair in the world (I bought one), they cost more than one grand, dat redbull money
Why does day9 keep saying timings out of his butt? "7 minutes is when T usually go double ebays"... Umm Demuslim just got his second gas, why would he go double ebay
On June 22 2013 07:33 BakedButters wrote: Why does day9 keep saying timings out of his butt? "7 minutes is when T usually go double ebays"... Umm Demuslim just got his second gas, why would he go double ebay
I really love the observer UI! So neat and includes everything that I want to see is there (including # workers). This should be the standard for observing. The only problem is when minerals / gas is over 1k, then only the first 3 numbers is shown, i.e. 104.. minerals, its impossible to know if its 10k or 1k minerals. Should be easy to fix though.
It was amazing how they did not mention at all(before the first battle which demu lost vs blings) how much the zerg had commited in lings. If demu had not failed at splitting like that, Golden was far behind on econ aswell as army.
On June 22 2013 07:47 Zarahtra wrote: It was amazing how they did not mention at all(before the first battle which demu lost vs blings) how much the zerg had commited in lings. If demu had not failed at splitting like that, Golden was far behind on econ aswell as army.
No, Golden had the better economy the entire game after the first ling run by that DeMuslim did not raise his depot wall for. It was 70+ drones vs ~45-50 scvs.
On June 22 2013 07:47 Zarahtra wrote: It was amazing how they did not mention at all(before the first battle which demu lost vs blings) how much the zerg had commited in lings. If demu had not failed at splitting like that, Golden was far behind on econ aswell as army.
No, Golden had the better economy the entire game after the first ling run by that DeMuslim did not raise his depot wall for. It was 70+ drones vs ~45-50 scvs.
He had 51 drones vs 60 scvs at one time, i believe it was straight after the blings blowing up. After that ofcourse demu was fighting an uphill battle vs golden which was playing really well.
i lose to this or roach all ins so often, if u go tanks then they dont all in u end up behind and if u dont make tanks and they all in u either straight up die or u lose so much u just end up dieing later on QQ
On June 22 2013 07:55 Jknighty wrote: How do you hold an all in from zerg when u go 3 cc like that?
I think you HAVE to spot that many lings with the hellions and hope that you can get enough mines out and hope for the best hits possible. It's incredibly hard to hold, that's for sure.
On June 22 2013 07:55 Jknighty wrote: How do you hold an all in from zerg when u go 3 cc like that?
I think you HAVE to spot that many lings with the hellions and hope that you can get enough mines out and hope for the best hits possible. It's incredibly hard to hold, that's for sure.
Also a mistake by demu there was that he needs to evacuate the 1st bunker just as the blings are about to hit it. Some even just leave 1 rine inside the bunker when they see the bust coming and put the others in the bunkers behind. I mean he was dead anyway, but it would've gone slightly better for him.
On June 22 2013 08:03 Jknighty wrote: Demu is soo weird on lan.
Ladder succes doesnt mean you have lan succes.
He has online tournament success. He just makes weird mistakes on lan. Not putting up supply depots, failing to take out that hatchery when he had the chance, forgetting about 4 marines when the ling runby happened in the 3rd game.
On June 22 2013 08:03 Jknighty wrote: Demu is soo weird on lan.
Ladder succes doesnt mean you have lan succes.
lol he played fine, had he done a few things differently he could have easily won that game. he had more than enough time to snipe golden's 3rd and could have prevented golden's runbys.. these type of mistakes happen all the time
On June 22 2013 08:06 fishb00n wrote: this is no fun. blizzard fix. thx
are you serious? oO
no. I´m just getting incredibly angry everytime i see zerg play like the last two games. Looks so noobish to me. don´t know why :/
It's pretty frustrating to see Zerg players not punishing greedy Terrans as well. If you are going for triple CC's into double ebays without a tank or two, then you're practically begging the Zerg to all in.
On June 22 2013 08:11 Vertigro wrote: just LAN nerves creeping in i think, he hasn't played them in such a long time... he'll be fine im sure first game looked impressive!
He is just to greedy too. It is a bit of a reacurring problem for him tbh. On ladder he doesn't really get punished as much as he should probably(since people are trying to improve their macro games rather than their allins). He needs to build those tanks, he is good enough to make up for it :/
only way id not go 3 cc is if i get proof that the zerg is all-inning. making blind tanks or scanning is kind of like an all-in, i need to set up for the macro game, dat zerg favored metagame. ezily abusable,
Fun fact about ZvZ muta vs muta. If the opponent blind sides you with a muta and ling attack into your base and your army is on their half of the map, it is always better to go for a base trade.
Pretty interesting to see that this event only has 14k viewers atm, apparently big name casters like Day9 and Husky and fan favorite players like Grubby and Demuslim doesn't do it anymore?
On June 22 2013 08:49 TheSir wrote: Pretty interesting to see that this event only has 14k viewers atm, apparently big name casters like Day9 and Husky and fan favorite players like Grubby and Demuslim doesn't do it anymore?
Personally it's a lot harder to get hyped about an 8 player tournament. Also, I'm probably in the minority but overall this caster group doesn't really do much for me :/
On June 22 2013 08:54 Quakecomm wrote: Is there a bracket for this tourney anywhere?
On June 22 2013 08:54 openbox1 wrote: People have been up all night or morning or afternoon watching homestory cup which is a much bigger deal. You can't expect us to watch SC2 24/7 right?
On June 22 2013 09:11 iamahydralisk wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, but what's happening with Puck (Leiya)? Did she change her mind about the transition or something?
It's complicated, but most casters have just been using male pronouns since he stated he's no longer transitioning and uncertain what his gender is.
On June 22 2013 09:11 iamahydralisk wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, but what's happening with Puck (Leiya)? Did she change her mind about the transition or something?
It's complicated, but most casters have just been using male pronouns since he stated he's no longer transitioning and uncertain what his gender is.
On June 22 2013 09:11 iamahydralisk wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, but what's happening with Puck (Leiya)? Did she change her mind about the transition or something?
It's complicated, but most casters have just been using male pronouns since he stated he's no longer transitioning and uncertain what his gender is.
On June 22 2013 09:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: Fun fact: Select is on a 14 bo3 losing streak dating back to October 2012. His last Bo3 win was on October 12, 2012, which was a 2-1 vs PuMa in NASL
Oh damn, has he played any bo3 ever since he returned though?
On June 22 2013 09:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: Fun fact: Select is on a 14 bo3 losing streak dating back to October 2012. His last Bo3 win was on October 12, 2012, which was a 2-1 vs PuMa in NASL
Oh damn, has he played any bo3 ever since he returned though?
No these are his first televised matches and he's off to a good start
On June 22 2013 09:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: Fun fact: Select is on a 14 bo3 losing streak dating back to October 2012. His last Bo3 win was on October 12, 2012, which was a 2-1 vs PuMa in NASL
Oh damn, has he played any bo3 ever since he returned though?
I don't believe so? (Correct me if I'm wrong). I don't believe he has been at any competitive LAN events since his return to the scene.
On June 22 2013 09:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: Fun fact: Select is on a 14 bo3 losing streak dating back to October 2012. His last Bo3 win was on October 12, 2012, which was a 2-1 vs PuMa in NASL
Oh damn, has he played any bo3 ever since he returned though?
No these are his first televised matches and he's off to a good start
Alright then, would be pretty unfortunate if his losing streak continued.
This tournament so far is awesome. Really high-quality production and casting, no issues with the stream, and the players are world-class. Amazing experience so far.
On June 22 2013 09:55 Jollocks wrote: This tournament so far is awesome. Really high-quality production and casting, no issues with the stream, and the players are world-class. Amazing experience so far.
Um, I wouldn't rate these players anywhere close to "world class."
On June 22 2013 10:33 ref4 wrote: macro terrans are so so scary
I think it's just poor macro from Vibe (poor being relative). How can Terran have more supply then Zerg at all time, unless your Innovation. And even there, it's scary. Terran always with a supply lead, it's so insane, my mind just doesn't want to accept it.
On June 22 2013 10:33 ref4 wrote: macro terrans are so so scary
I think it's just poor macro from Vibe (poor being relative). How can Terran have more supply then Zerg at all time, unless your Innovation. And even there, it's scary. Terran always with a supply lead, it's so insane, my mind just doesn't want to accept it.
I think if Vibe stayed on 2 bases longer to pump out more lings and banes he could've hold that push from sound
i mean he is already 1 more bases than sound that creep takes eons to go away
never forget banelings and Mutas are really supply efficient. Especially when a Mine Terran meets a Muta Zerg the supply does tell as much as a Roach Zerg vs a Protoss.
And close game, always that lil burrow research missing.
On June 22 2013 11:34 ZjiublingZ wrote: I never have played Protoss but that was so, so painful to watch... Poor Puck, first 0-3 of the day and he had the game in the bag too.
On June 22 2013 11:34 ZjiublingZ wrote: I never have played Protoss but that was so, so painful to watch... Poor Puck, first 0-3 of the day and he had the game in the bag too.
Sound 3-0d ViBE
Yes, unfortunately the second Korean 3-0 of an American lol.
On June 22 2013 11:34 ZjiublingZ wrote: I never have played Protoss but that was so, so painful to watch... Poor Puck, first 0-3 of the day and he had the game in the bag too.
Sound 3-0d ViBE
Yes, unfortunately the second Korean 3-0 of an American lol.
On June 22 2013 11:47 redbullESPORTS wrote: If you missed any of the action today, you can find all of the VODs from today's group play on www.youtube.com/redbullesports.
On June 22 2013 14:11 dizzy101 wrote: With these casters, it feels like 2011 all over again. I hope the commentators have stayed up to date with the scene, not so sure about that tho.
because husky, mr bitter and day9 havent been casting events at all lately.............
On June 22 2013 14:11 dizzy101 wrote: With these casters, it feels like 2011 all over again. I hope the commentators have stayed up to date with the scene, not so sure about that tho.
Nooo select knocked out! Demu did the mvp mine drop into cloaked banshee build that got owned by innovation twice. Select defended mine drop well but wasn't ready for banshee followup.
Demu's really been liking this heavy banshee play of late. He knows that if he persists and builds more banshees than his opponent expects, he's almost guaranteed to eventually do damage, and if he does damage from the beginning (as in this case) he can build up an enormous lead - very cool to watch. I really liked that hellion/hellbat/assault viking push at the end of game 3 too.
On June 23 2013 08:13 TheDougler wrote: Does Kane think this is a monobattle?! Even just a few hydras would be nice. Swarmhosts would be better though.
or just put spores up i guess, now Sound could pickup and fly to mineral lines without a problem over and over.
Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
All are bo3 where all 3 games get played out. It's because they're 'training' or whatever. 100 dollars per map win I think.
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
They play 3 matches. So even if someone wins 2-0, they'll still play the third match, and each win is worth 100$ also
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
They play 3 matches. So even if someone wins 2-0, they'll still play the third match, and each win is worth 100$ also
This is the more appropriate way to describe it. It's not a "best of 3", because that implies the match ends if someone goes 2-0. It's not a "best of" anything, they just play 3 games, that's it.
Oh wow... so BM!
DeMuslim doesn't usually do that before the final game of the series. Forgetting his English Manners.
Demuslim looks like he's in great shape, I'm really glad, seeing that he practices a lot and streams while he's at it. I'm such a fanboy of his TvP play. What a cool guy.
On June 23 2013 08:48 Hollandrock wrote: That pick-off of the Mothership Core was incredible from DeMuslim!
Actually quite useful to know as a protoss player. I thought as long as you got the spell off there was a window where you'd lose units, but would still be safe. I swear I've had recalls where my MSC didn't make it but the rest of my army did. Weird :\
On June 23 2013 08:51 Hollandrock wrote: Oh wow... so BM!
DeMuslim doesn't usually do that before the final game of the series. Forgetting his English Manners.
Forgetting English manners, but remembering British banter?
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
They play 3 matches. So even if someone wins 2-0, they'll still play the third match, and each win is worth 100$ also
This is the more appropriate way to describe it. It's not a "best of 3", because that implies the match ends if someone goes 2-0. It's not a "best of" anything, they just play 3 games, that's it.
On June 23 2013 08:48 Hollandrock wrote: That pick-off of the Mothership Core was incredible from DeMuslim!
Actually quite useful to know as a protoss player. I thought as long as you got the spell off there was a window where you'd lose units, but would still be safe. I swear I've had recalls where my MSC didn't make it but the rest of my army did. Weird :\
Yeah, strange. Perhaps there's a slight lapse of time at the beginning during which Recall is cancelled if the MSC is destroyed.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
English is super difficult to not sound weird without pronouns.
Yeah I think it would be really awkward to try to cast a game without using pronouns when the use of them is so ingrained into your regular casting style.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
They in a multiplayer game would confuse the crap out of viewers, especially in a mirror matchup. Also, I really don't like when casters use terms or phrases like "the Protoss player, our blue protoss, etc.". It's kind of annoying. and not using pronouns would make this more of a go-to sentence filler.
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
They play 3 matches. So even if someone wins 2-0, they'll still play the third match, and each win is worth 100$ also
This is the more appropriate way to describe it. It's not a "best of 3", because that implies the match ends if someone goes 2-0. It's not a "best of" anything, they just play 3 games, that's it.
Oh wow... so BM!
DeMuslim doesn't usually do that before the final game of the series. Forgetting his English Manners.
Seems appropriate, given Puck's level of BM
I love how you bash your respective countrymen. Thats diplomatic level of manners.
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
On June 23 2013 08:38 kollin wrote: Oh yeah I forgot about that HSC, where he came out of nowhere and beat the shit out of everyone. Btw can someone explain to me this tournament's format, I don't understand why some matches are bo3, some are bo5 and some seem to just be a random number in between.
They play 3 matches. So even if someone wins 2-0, they'll still play the third match, and each win is worth 100$ also
This is the more appropriate way to describe it. It's not a "best of 3", because that implies the match ends if someone goes 2-0. It's not a "best of" anything, they just play 3 games, that's it.
Oh wow... so BM!
DeMuslim doesn't usually do that before the final game of the series. Forgetting his English Manners.
Seems appropriate, given Puck's level of BM
I love how you bash your respective countrymen. Thats diplomatic level of manners.
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
So only Korean Protosses are smart protosses?
no, but i would say smartest. Most builds are designed in Korea. Also forgot Creator, i remember Artosis saying how he figured out perfect unit ratio for PvZ + his double forge play is showing of his intelligence.
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
So only Korean Protosses are smart protosses?
no, but i would say smartest. Most builds are designed in Korea. Also forgot Creator, i remember Artosis saying how he figured out perfect unit ratio for PvZ + his double forge play is showing of his intelligence.
Well yeah , I consider Creator the smartest protoss. God, every protoss used his +3 armor 2 colossus push for a little while.
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
So if you dont refer to someone as gender you would have to use "it"?
On June 23 2013 08:51 sorrowptoss wrote: Demuslim looks like he's in great shape, I'm really glad, seeing that he practices a lot and streams while he's at it. I'm such a fanboy of his TvP play. What a cool guy.
Its so inspiring too! You cripple protoss with small efficient trades harassing at 2-3 places while backing it up with strong macro behind, and at the end you attack with 20-30 supply more!
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
The best compromise would probably be to say " Puck's X " for everything, puck's army, puck's reinforcements etc. I doubt the casters have any idea that they're doing anything wrong, if it makes puck uncomfortable then puck can inform them. It's not too difficult since they're playing on location in the same building.
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
So only Korean Protosses are smart protosses?
no, but i would say smartest. Most builds are designed in Korea. Also forgot Creator, i remember Artosis saying how he figured out perfect unit ratio for PvZ + his double forge play is showing of his intelligence.
Well yeah , I consider Creator the smartest protoss. God, every protoss used his +3 armor 2 colossus push for a little while.
One build wonder
Weird that Creator has fallen off in all seriousness, his defensive solidity was really impressive and I thought HoTS would have given him the tools to prosper
On June 23 2013 09:09 ImperialFist wrote: hurts my butt when i see someone with puck's mechanics beat demuslim
Exactly that, its not about balance, but the easier mechanics that protoss provides. I remember watching puck stream and see him go 1a get all of his templars sniped and then complain. It seems like Protoss has it easy with people who have inferior mechanics, but seems to reward player with good game understanding. Usually we hear 'smart' referred to protoss players like Squirtle, Puzzle, Yonghwa, Rain, Parting.
So only Korean Protosses are smart protosses?
no, but i would say smartest. Most builds are designed in Korea. Also forgot Creator, i remember Artosis saying how he figured out perfect unit ratio for PvZ + his double forge play is showing of his intelligence.
Well yeah , I consider Creator the smartest protoss. God, every protoss used his +3 armor 2 colossus push for a little while.
One build wonder
Weird that Creator has fallen off in all seriousness, his defensive solidity was really impressive and I thought HoTS would have given him the tools to prosper
I think we will see him more, all of the Prime not doing good. Once they get their old spirit back they ll come back
guess if demu can get that "taeja vision" and spots the observers so he can scan snipe them to avoid the drop plans been spoiled all the time he would be even better
I hope someone mentions to Demu to check for observers before loading medivacs. For someone that wants to outmicro his opponent, not giving this kind of information freely to his opponent is huge(esp since demu prefers to split against early engagement storms instead of using ghosts).
On June 23 2013 08:59 Shantastic wrote: Why is Bitter referring to puCK as "he/him"? Didn't she come out as MtF months ago?
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
The best compromise would probably be to say " Puck's X " for everything, puck's army, puck's reinforcements etc. I doubt the casters have any idea that they're doing anything wrong, if it makes puck uncomfortable then puck can inform them. It's not too difficult since they're playing on location in the same building.
puCK probably didn't hear any of it, and I totally agree that I think the casters don't know, but I think they should be aware of these things for the sake of anyone watching who is genderqueer and might feel uncomfortable 'cause of it.
EDIT: Sorry, just wanted to point it out; won't derail the thread with this anymore, now that the match is over.
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
The best compromise would probably be to say " Puck's X " for everything, puck's army, puck's reinforcements etc. I doubt the casters have any idea that they're doing anything wrong, if it makes puck uncomfortable then puck can inform them. It's not too difficult since they're playing on location in the same building.
puCK probably didn't hear any of it, and I totally agree that I think the casters don't know, but I think they should be aware of these things for the sake of anyone watching who is genderqueer and might feel uncomfortable 'cause of it.
I just don't understand how anyone would be uncomfortable with it. I mean it's not like they are saying it to be dicks. His gender is at best quite confusing atm, I'd expect people that are confident enough with themselves to actually change gender, to be able to handle a slight mistake like this, especially when they themselves are unsure.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
The best compromise would probably be to say " Puck's X " for everything, puck's army, puck's reinforcements etc. I doubt the casters have any idea that they're doing anything wrong, if it makes puck uncomfortable then puck can inform them. It's not too difficult since they're playing on location in the same building.
puCK probably didn't hear any of it, and I totally agree that I think the casters don't know, but I think they should be aware of these things for the sake of anyone watching who is genderqueer and might feel uncomfortable 'cause of it.
I just don't understand how anyone would be uncomfortable with it. I mean it's not like they are saying it to be dicks. His gender is at best quite confusing atm, I'd expect people that are confident enough with themselves to actually change gender, to be able to handle a slight mistake like this, especially when they themselves are unsure.
dude people can get offended by the most minor of things
like they said
" sticks and stones and nuclear warheads might incinerate me but words will hurt my fragile feelings forever"
On June 23 2013 09:52 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Hmmm will be tough for Grubby when 2/2 finishes for Kane
you underestimate zealots and FF.
Also the +2 armor for slings doesn't really change anything against zlots, it's still going to be 3 hits.
I think it's more about how well melee upgrades scale with lings' sick attack speed, which is why 2-2 lings make really short work of zealots with decent surface area. Those last forcefields were really the margin.
Loved the previous game at the end when Husky went with his standard blooper - "Those Lings are not dying" Meanwhile every ling die without killing a unit. LOL
I feel a little bad for Grubby here. He seemed well ahead after sniping the third but probably should have committed to the basetrade rather than recalling back to his third. That gave Kane time to build up this enormous number of Mutalisks.
On June 23 2013 10:12 aZealot wrote: I feel a little bad for Grubby here. He seemed well ahead after sniping the third but probably should have committed to the basetrade rather than recalling back to his third. That gave Kane time to build up this enormous number of Mutalisks.
Yeah i think he would've won the basetrade, he still had 3 bases of buildings left while Kane had only like 1.5, and immortals are so good vs buildings. Kane focused on killing workers so after the recall grubby was so behind imo
On June 23 2013 10:12 aZealot wrote: I feel a little bad for Grubby here. He seemed well ahead after sniping the third but probably should have committed to the basetrade rather than recalling back to his third. That gave Kane time to build up this enormous number of Mutalisks.
Yeah i think he would've won the basetrade, he still had 3 bases of buildings left while Kane had only like 1.5, and immortals are so good vs buildings. Kane focused on killing workers so after the recall grubby was so behind imo
Also he had dt shrine which would help a lot, esp. after sniping the lair
Edit: Or hmm maybe he made it as the base trade started...
Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
The other options are retirement or play another game (Dota, LoL) WC3 is dead and buried
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
The other options are retirement or play another game (Dota, LoL) WC3 is dead and buried
Better milk what you can from SC2, I guess
He did almost win IEM half a year ago... but yeah his HotS performance is pretty lackluster
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
I don't see it that way at all. I think he will always be highly respected as a gamer. Certainly his stream numbers remain high.
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
I don't see it that way at all. I think he will always be highly respected as a gamer. Certainly his stream numbers remain high.
He's hardly bad. Sticking around in EU premiere league and made the WCS Global Finals in WoL. Yeah he's not going to match his WC3 achievements, but really if that's your expected benchmark for him to hit you had grossly unrealistic expectations.
On June 23 2013 10:52 Darpa wrote: SO is this a losers bracket or something, Liquipedia page doesnt show any of these matches.
It's just group play. This is the last match of Group B. Select is already eliminated and Golden is already through. they are playing for the money ($100 per map)
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
The other options are retirement or play another game (Dota, LoL) WC3 is dead and buried
Better milk what you can from SC2, I guess
Why on earth would he retire if he enjoys playing? He doesn't do that bad (again back in PL), and remember he just comes of a 2? week vacation. He's player better then i thought and as long as he doing decent, he will always has his fanbase.
But hey, we heard this shit after a month Grubby started playing SC2.
On June 23 2013 10:40 KingofGods wrote: Anyone feel like Grubby's legacy keeps getting tarnished the more he plays SC2? He has a huge fan base because of his war3 days but as we get farther from those days and Grubby keeps not doing anything in SC2 I think people will start not caring.
I don't see it that way at all. I think he will always be highly respected as a gamer. Certainly his stream numbers remain high.
He's hardly bad. Sticking around in EU premiere league and made the WCS Global Finals in WoL. Yeah he's not going to match his WC3 achievements, but really if that's your expected benchmark for him to hit you had grossly unrealistic expectations.
Pretty much. He has improved a lot too, as a player. And, like others, is still figuring out HOTS. I think he is also trying to work on his own style, specifically a Protoss style for HOTS. By this I mean calculated aggression, mobility, and especially scouting (he is one of the few Protoss I see, on stream and in games, who make a point of repeatedly using hallucination for scouting). I respect him as a Protoss player, and have a great deal of respect for him as a role model for professional gamers.
Yeah select is a boss at multitasking if he gets to the mid-late game. It's a shame in the games he lost he died early so didn't have a chance to use his multitasking.
Why don't they have have every player stream and then we can choose whichever person we want to see? I really don't care to hear the commentators commentate a micro tournament.
On June 23 2013 11:24 Wombat_NI wrote: SelecT is a madman with those drops, so aggressive
He's always been like that, his macro level has always been the reason why he lost in the past. He sacrifices macro for some of the flashy/cool micro which endears him to viewers but costs him some games.
On June 23 2013 11:27 Wombat_NI wrote: Quite interesting really, the stream numbers here are not huge, but a solid 15-20k or so I've seen but the LR is pretty quiet.
Makes me wonder how many people watch these events with no knowledge of TeamLiquid and the likes
The ratio of people posting in lrs to the viewers is pretty small for every tournament really.
On June 23 2013 11:24 Wombat_NI wrote: SelecT is a madman with those drops, so aggressive
He's always been like that, his macro level has always been the reason why he lost in the past. He sacrifices macro for some of the flashy/cool micro which endears him to viewers but costs him some games.
He also has speedivacs now. Tbh I've always found him one of those players who always looks pretty good and skilled, but never really had the big breakthrough or deep tournament runs. Always a good watch though
On June 23 2013 11:27 KingofGods wrote: Why don't they have have every player stream and then we can choose whichever person we want to see? I really don't care to hear the commentators commentate a micro tournament.
Have you ever watched TLO's stream? He switches the spot he watches about 2-3 times per second. Now he himself will know what is happening wherever he goes, but you wont be so lucky, because he will be "gone" before anything happens. Switching this often nearly makes me sick and it is impossible to follow the action.
On June 23 2013 11:27 Wombat_NI wrote: Quite interesting really, the stream numbers here are not huge, but a solid 15-20k or so I've seen but the LR is pretty quiet.
Makes me wonder how many people watch these events with no knowledge of TeamLiquid and the likes
a LOT of people. TL is the hardcore community, that's the reason you can have a tournament with 15-20k viewers without many posts but you can have a night of OSL get 100000 views and 2000 responses. It's all about the level of interest to the hardcore community.
On June 23 2013 11:27 KingofGods wrote: Why don't they have have every player stream and then we can choose whichever person we want to see? I really don't care to hear the commentators commentate a micro tournament.
Have you ever watched TLO's stream? He switches the spot he watches about 2-3 times per second. Now he himself will know what is happening wherever he goes, but you wont be so lucky, because he will be "gone" before anything happens. Switching this often nearly makes me sick and it is impossible to follow the action.
The speed is fun to watch, makes you appreciate how hard they're working. Would be bad if it was the ONLY viewing option though
I was actually talking about the 8 man micro tournament they are talking about. Instead of making us vote and only having 1 view, give us all 8 and let us watch whichever we want.
Puck took that back, I can't blame anyone for not knowing what puck identifies as because he/she keeps changing his/her mind and puck isn't a prominent enough player for everyone to pay close attention to it.
Can you link that please? I have yet to see any evidence of that, unless you mean her switching her name back to puCK which means nothing. Everyone in fanclub and at ROOT still refers to her as "her" as far as I can see.
I wish Bitter would avoid the pronouns then, I guess he doesn't know :/
Come on, it's extremely annoying to have to avoid using he/she and him/her, and actually impossible to avoid using his/her, short of reformulating your whole sentences. It's not Bitter's fault Puck can't make up his mind.
It's pretty easy, just say 'they are' or 'they have' all the time and its contractions. No big deal
saying " they " doesn't work in a 1v1 starcraft match when attempting to refer to one person, it would sound extremely awkward.
I think respecting the player and their wishes/identity is the more important issue here. Inconvenience isn't exactly a great excuse.
The best compromise would probably be to say " Puck's X " for everything, puck's army, puck's reinforcements etc. I doubt the casters have any idea that they're doing anything wrong, if it makes puck uncomfortable then puck can inform them. It's not too difficult since they're playing on location in the same building.
puCK probably didn't hear any of it, and I totally agree that I think the casters don't know, but I think they should be aware of these things for the sake of anyone watching who is genderqueer and might feel uncomfortable 'cause of it.
EDIT: Sorry, just wanted to point it out; won't derail the thread with this anymore, now that the match is over.
as some one who has followed puck extensively and heard him answer this question numerous times he doesn't care if people refer to him as him/her there is no address that makes him feel uncomfortable. in fact he only started saying he preferred them not to use anything because he was tired of people continually asking him.
On June 23 2013 22:18 ibo422 wrote: Not sure if someone mentioned allready but the sound is missing in the next vod: Grubby vs. STSound - Group Play Game #1
What do you mean Sound is missing he's the one Grubby is playing against :3
On June 23 2013 22:18 ibo422 wrote: Not sure if someone mentioned allready but the sound is missing in the next vod: Grubby vs. STSound - Group Play Game #1
What do you mean Sound is missing he's the one Grubby is playing against :3
I guess one sound isn't enough for me.. need the double sound! =)
Bad move for people on a schedule. I was looking forward to at least catching the first match or two of Redbull before leaving for work. Now I get nothing. While I understand delaying for HSC to end, it could have been anticipated and included in the Redbull schedule. I've always felt that if a schedule is listed, it should be followed. That way you don't build up false expectations.
On June 24 2013 07:23 RookUK wrote: Great to see Bitter and everyone else appearing on the HSC stream - it's things like that that make SCII feel like a real community. Brilliant stuff.
Indeed, that was nice and smart move, full respect for RedBull and HSC btw
On June 24 2013 07:48 nidhogg11 wrote: I haven't been playing SC2 a lot since HoTS came out, so I would appreciate if someone could please enlighten me.
Doesn't terran air hard counter the hellbat heavy mech style?
On June 24 2013 07:47 ImperialFist wrote: its really hard to defend vs hellbats when you're Terran
It really ain't. You make mine(s) and a viking/turret. Demuslim just got behind by excellent reaper micro and went "i need something to get back in this game" and was forced to actually play aggressive. When both are making aggressive units, it's redicilous to whine when they can't defend their mineral line.
On June 24 2013 07:44 Megiddosc wrote: TvT used to be such a good matchup to watch.
It still can be. One side just has to decide to actually defend.
The problem is that you're barely rewarded for defending.
Don't know, I can defend it pretty easily without taking dmg(well dmg that puts me behind, normally I feel ahead) with a factory expand, this in mid master. I think for top pros(and especially terrans) they just prefer to be in control, hence everyone going aggression.
On June 24 2013 07:44 Megiddosc wrote: TvT used to be such a good matchup to watch.
It still can be. One side just has to decide to actually defend.
The problem is that you're barely rewarded for defending.
Don't know, I can defend it pretty easily without taking dmg(well dmg that puts me behind, normally I feel ahead) with a factory expand, this in mid master. I think for top pros(and especially terrans) they just prefer to be in control, hence everyone going aggression.
I never drop Hellbats in TvT at top50 GM and can defend them fine too, sometimes even without any SCV loss, but then I'm not ahead at all, or barely. Sometimes I even end up behind because my opponent just drops once, see I am prepared and is happy with the fact I have more invested in defence than he has in real drops.
Hellbats just make the game boring. I think it's the blue flame hellion syndrome. Drops are interesting when they can do a lot of damage but are also easy to kill. It rewards micro/strategy in getting your units in there, doing the damage, and getting out. In the Taeja vs TLO/Snute games Hellbats were pretty much invincible, and they look no better in Demuslim/Sound. And people used to bitch about marauders being invincible, LOL.
I like how Day[9] and Husky are trying to make this game seem interesting. "I've never seen anyone play mech like this!" Yeah, you've never seen someone Hellbat drop and set up a tank contain?
On June 24 2013 08:08 StarVe wrote: I haven't watched the tournament much, but they should fix the overlay. Annoying when resources are cut off if they go too high.
It's because they have the red bull logo at the bottom.
Demuslim needs to overdo the widow-mine defence, if it goes to a standard macro game demuslim will be in his comfort zone. He really needs some months on the kr ladder.
On June 24 2013 08:12 ImperialFist wrote: Demuslim needs to overdo the widow-mine defence, if it goes to a standard macro game demuslim will be in his comfort zone. He really needs some months on the kr ladder.
He probably is a slightly better player in a standard macro game. Demu's weakness is just that he isn't a particularly smart player. His gameplan is very often just kinda bad. So oftne time we see him fight from behind. Against foreigners he can still win, but against koreans this becomes too challenging.
Sound seems like the living embodiment of "when ahead, get more ahead". It's lucky that Demu usually has such a good mindset, given the circumstances.
Lol what he did last game was the exact opposite of "getting more ahead". It was much more of a "I am gonna have the time of my life owning this guy".
On June 24 2013 08:12 ImperialFist wrote: Demuslim needs to overdo the widow-mine defence, if it goes to a standard macro game demuslim will be in his comfort zone. He really needs some months on the kr ladder.
He probably is a slightly better player in a standard macro game. Demu's weakness is just that he isn't a particularly smart player. His gameplay is very often just kinda bad. So oftne time we see him fight from behind. Against foreigners he can still win, but against koreans this becomes too challenging.
On June 24 2013 08:11 KingofGods wrote: LOL Demuslim drinking a Monster at the RedBull tournament. Oversight from the staff in my opinion.
What?
lol, u didn't get it ? :D
Was there some joke I didn't get? Or was it just that people don't seem to realize that Monster sponsors EG which is why there is a can of Monster on the table Oo;;~
Seems like Demuslim needs some terran practice partners. Because he looked completely clueless there. Aside from game 2 both those openers sound did are completely standard from what Ive seen
On June 24 2013 08:19 purakushi wrote: Woot, go Korea! Though, I kind of feel bad for Demuslim, though. He got picked apart.
Just wondering, what's the Korean love all about? I see you're from USA and I saw in the HSC thread you were talking about Koreans gaining their dominance like the BW days, why be against a diversified scene with skilled players all around the world?
On June 24 2013 08:23 Delicious Insanity wrote: Man Golden looked so sad after hearing that laugh.
Aye felt bad for him. Wondering if he realized his mistake or after they switched off him. Still was hilarious, can't blame D9 from bursting out laughing
On June 24 2013 08:23 Delicious Insanity wrote: Man Golden looked so sad after hearing that laugh.
Aye felt bad for him. Wondering if he realized his mistake or after they switched off him. Still was hilarious, can't blame D9 from bursting out laughing
It was the sequence, Golden "40/40."..bit of silence.. Mr. Bitters "40/40??" and then the cackle finished it for me
Lol what he did last game was the exact opposite of "getting more ahead". It was much more of a "I am gonna have the time of my life owning this guy".
Erm, the exact opposite would be "getting more behind". Yes he was enjoying choking Demu out as much as he could, but what I mean is that he was going to every possible length in both games 1 and 2 to make a comeback totally impossible (sensor towers, lots of turrets, mines, keeping his opponent from being able to expand to fresh bases etc). It's interesting because while Terrans do have a lot of those sorts of tools, I don't think you see them used hugely often.
In any case, it's sad to see my favourite player get so badly outclassed. It was nice to see him in a semifinal though, even if it was only in a very small tournament.
Lol what he did last game was the exact opposite of "getting more ahead". It was much more of a "I am gonna have the time of my life owning this guy".
Erm, the exact opposite would be "getting more behind". Yes he was enjoying choking Demu out as much as he could, but what I mean is that he was going to every possible length in both games 1 and 2 to make a comeback totally impossible (sensor towers, lots of turrets, mines, keeping his opponent from being able to expand to fresh bases etc). It's interesting because while Terrans do have a lot of those sorts of tools, I don't think you see them used hugely often.
In any case, it's sad to see my favourite player get so badly outclassed. It was nice to see him in a semifinal though, even if it was only in a very small tournament.
No I don't think you understand what the getting more ahead approach implies. It implies that you minimize the probability of your opponent making a comeback, and the best way to do that is to make it possible for you to make a lot of micro/unit control mistakes and still end up winning. He exactly didn't do that. Demuslim could have had vikings patrolling area x at time x in the game and wupsie 2 thors + 2 dropships would have tied. The same thing about the doom-drop in the main, and the BC without securing air control was also likely a troll move. All of the expo taking wasn't really safe as well as they were way too vulernable too drops.
The "getting more ahead" approach is usually a very boring approach where you put up a lot of turrets/patrolling vikings/take aboslutely zero risks and make sure that the opponent can never get back. Sack scvs instead/build OC's --> get a 170 food army deathball which your opponent can't possibly beat.
Or let me ask you this; How do you explain the fact that after he just invested 1500 minerals into expos he moved out with a 150 supply attack?????? That makes zero logical sense from a miniminze probability of losing logic. Instead it was clear he just wanted to play a fast-paced game where he had lots of fun but which also had lots of risks involved.
I don't really know whether Demu get outclassed. He losses in the same manner which he has done a lot in the past and will continue to do in the future (getting outsmarted). In terms of pure mechanics though he is better than most code b koreans.
Oh my golden is going hard on the aggression and kane is greeding this might just end now. That was a bit sloppy by golden his banes exploded so often on kane's banes.
I'm pretty darn sure that this is just Kane switching style because his super early speed getting scouted. The ultra fast mass ling speed build relies completely on not being scouted in time, and Golden had that nice ovie scout early.
Honestly for Golden and Sound, it seems they are just here for the prize money and not the training. I don't see how in any possible way training here with the rest of these 6 guys (no offense to them) is better than training at the Startale house for Golden and Sound.
On June 24 2013 09:24 KingofGods wrote: Honestly for Golden and Sound, it seems they are just here for the prize money and not the training. I don't see how in any possible way training here with the rest of these 6 guys (no offense to them) is better than training at the Startale house for Golden and Sound.
This is good for them due to adjusting to the timezone and practice isn't too bad. Besides, promotion for Redbull's sponsored team and the players get exposure.
" Oh god I thought these guys were supposed to be the weak Koreans? " says the Red Bull staff as their hopes and dreams of a Grubby vs Demuslim final are smashed.
On June 24 2013 09:24 KingofGods wrote: Honestly for Golden and Sound, it seems they are just here for the prize money and not the training. I don't see how in any possible way training here with the rest of these 6 guys (no offense to them) is better than training at the Startale house for Golden and Sound.
Maybe its training for the other guys But also the public, they doing a lot of analysis/explanation during the cast.
On June 24 2013 09:30 Dodgin wrote: " Oh god I thought these guys were supposed to be the weak Koreans? " says the Red Bull staff as their hopes and dreams of a Grubby vs Demuslim final are smashed.
Nope it's a clear message, even the weakest Koreans can smash big names like demuslim and grubby, why? Because they're drinking their red bull gives them the key energy advantage for multitask and micro.
On June 24 2013 09:30 Dodgin wrote: " Oh god I thought these guys were supposed to be the weak Koreans? " says the Red Bull staff as their hopes and dreams of a Grubby vs Demuslim final are smashed.
On June 24 2013 09:24 KingofGods wrote: Honestly for Golden and Sound, it seems they are just here for the prize money and not the training. I don't see how in any possible way training here with the rest of these 6 guys (no offense to them) is better than training at the Startale house for Golden and Sound.
This is good for them due to adjusting to the timezone and practice isn't too bad. Besides, promotion for Redbull's sponsored team and the players get exposure.
On June 24 2013 09:30 Dodgin wrote: " Oh god I thought these guys were supposed to be the weak Koreans? " says the Red Bull staff as their hopes and dreams of a Grubby vs Demuslim final are smashed.
lol, but redbull sponsors Golden and Sound
They want people to watch their event more than anything else.
On June 24 2013 09:30 Dodgin wrote: " Oh god I thought these guys were supposed to be the weak Koreans? " says the Red Bull staff as their hopes and dreams of a Grubby vs Demuslim final are smashed.
Nope it's a clear message, even the weakest Koreans can smash big names like demuslim and grubby, why? Because they're drinking their red bull gives them the key energy advantage for multitask and micro.
On June 24 2013 09:58 kckkryptonite wrote: It must be really discouraging being a top foreigner and getting rolled by Code A Koreans.
I think Sound could definitely break into Code S
His multipronged attacks and macroaggressive style is refreshing and fun to watch, in addition to being very powerful. With a little more experience and practice it will happen. Bomber will show him the way to achieve it (and not the way to choke ^_^)
On June 24 2013 10:09 negativedge wrote: can we please put in the blue flame needed for +light damage on hellbats change already?
Or just do what every top Zerg does and make 4+ Queens and focus fire the Medivac.
he had 4+ queens, and he pulled the drones fast enough, but medivacs with boost are faster than drones so you can still top on top of those.
Also hellbats take so long to die that they even kill the eggs/larva/everything that comes out of the eggs.
Hellbats aren't as tough as people make out, they stay alive because of the Medivac healing and boost has a cooldown you can't just auto-assume if you run drones away they'll get chased and roasted - It's probably exactly why they didn't fit the Igniter change into the Warp Prism patch because all Dreamhack Hellbat drops were figured out.
On June 24 2013 10:27 geokilla wrote: Are Golden and Sound both B-Teamers on Startale? Because it looks like they can at least play in Code A, if not Code S?
There's a lot of players in Korea who can play at a Code A level, but qualification only has so many spots.
On June 24 2013 10:27 geokilla wrote: Are Golden and Sound both B-Teamers on Startale? Because it looks like they can at least play in Code A, if not Code S?
Golden is Code A, Sound was Code A in the previous season(qualifiers haven't happened yet for wcs kr s2)
On June 24 2013 10:27 geokilla wrote: Are Golden and Sound both B-Teamers on Startale? Because it looks like they can at least play in Code A, if not Code S?
Golden is Code A, Sound was Code A in the previous season(qualifiers haven't happened yet for wcs kr s2)
Yeah people may think this way that they are at least Code A and maybe Code S, but really there are just so many players better than them.
On June 24 2013 10:27 geokilla wrote: Are Golden and Sound both B-Teamers on Startale? Because it looks like they can at least play in Code A, if not Code S?
A teamers. StarTale just has way too many Zergs (Life and Curious) to use Golden often, and they are trying to groom Panic to a good protoss. Avenge is also a great toss, and in the T department, they have Bomber, Hack and Sound which are prominent.
Bo7 in GSTL must be total shite for these players. I bet we would see them way more often in Bo9s..
Really good games in this final here, but I think Snute and Teaja in HSC were far better and also the semifinals of HSC were some of the best of the respective matchups I've ever seen with the added hype of almost having two full reverse kills.
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Great games so far, except for game 2...let's see what Sound pulls out to break even in the next game. Bel'shir Vestige not the best map for hellbat drops, but it's good enough.
Sound's problem was that he always tried to do these multipronged attacks, but he never won ANY engagements. He needs to drop more conservatively and into actually winning an engagement instead of randomly splitting his army in so many directions.
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Some men, just want to watch Zergs burn.
Inno can win even without putting on his cape to become the hellbatman
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Some men, just want to watch Zergs burn.
Hellbats
I predict once hellbats are nerfed innovation will no longer be undisputed top 3 terran.
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Some men, just want to watch Zergs burn.
Hellbats
I predict once hellbats are nerfed innovation will no longer be undisputed top 3 terran.
I'll bet you a TL+ subscription (the minimum) that he retains his top 3 spot. He's ahead of virtually every other Terran in so many ways.
On June 24 2013 10:36 Vindicare605 wrote: Dat fungal.
One fungal = dead army. lol. Not complaining just observing.
i agree .. if you also dont have fungal .. t1 stim-micro can kite your units for like forever
kiting takes substantially more apm than hitting dat F key
more apm means more fun to play although harder .. zerg is designed to be easier when not microing against around mines and hellbat since you cant a-move against them
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Some men, just want to watch Zergs burn.
Hellbats
I predict once hellbats are nerfed innovation will no longer be undisputed top 3 terran.
I'll bet you a TL+ subscription (the minimum) that he retains his top 3 spot. He's ahead of virtually every other Terran in so many ways.
Can I get in on this? lol. Innovation just abuse Hellbats in TvT moreso than any other matchup. He was a top terran even during the Lings of Liberty era. Plus there are a few terrans to challenge his top spot anyways. People are crazy to think he won't be good post-hellbat.
On June 24 2013 10:37 ref4 wrote: makes you wonder what kind of a madman Innovation must be to be able to take out even better Zergs than Golden consistently
Some men, just want to watch Zergs burn.
Hellbats
I predict once hellbats are nerfed innovation will no longer be undisputed top 3 terran.
I'll bet you a TL+ subscription (the minimum) that he retains his top 3 spot. He's ahead of virtually every other Terran in so many ways.
Can I get in on this? lol. Innovation just abuse Hellbats in TvT moreso than any other matchup. He was a top terran even during the Lings of Liberty era. Plus there are a few terrans to challenge his top spot anyways. People are crazy to think he won't be good post-hellbat.
he become top and destroyed life and other zergs before hellbats became famous .. he just became more insane as hellbats were added to his arnesal
Many thanks to Red Bull for this fun event. Looking forward to MLG Anaheim to see the ST players do well. Also looking forward to Sebastian Vettel winning the British Grand Prix next weekend!
On June 24 2013 11:06 Wintex wrote: Tbh, INnoVation shines in one aspect where he is unmatched. It is not HPM, but it is widow mine usage and control.
yeah his positioning for widow mines is scary good. But more scary is that this sort of positioning carries over into Hellvac usage. Innovations Hellbats are always there where your worker will be in a few seconds and waiting.
On June 24 2013 11:06 Wintex wrote: Tbh, INnoVation shines in one aspect where he is unmatched. It is not HPM, but it is widow mine usage and control.
yeah his positioning for widow mines is scary good. But more scary is that this sort of positioning carries over into Hellvac usage. Innovations Hellbats are always there where your worker will be in a few seconds and waiting.
real cool tournament.
He's just a overall good player, and not just "widow mine usage" or "hellbat usage." He is also very good at TvP in HotS, which widow mines and hellbat openings are seldom.
On June 24 2013 15:32 Insoleet wrote: Very sad that it was at an awful time for Europe viewers. This event looked pretty cool with not-so-known players.
this tournament was for NA region mostly. EU can watch the vods, like me
On June 24 2013 11:06 Wintex wrote: Tbh, INnoVation shines in one aspect where he is unmatched. It is not HPM, but it is widow mine usage and control.
yeah his positioning for widow mines is scary good. But more scary is that this sort of positioning carries over into Hellvac usage. Innovations Hellbats are always there where your worker will be in a few seconds and waiting.
real cool tournament.
He's just a overall good player, and not just "widow mine usage" or "hellbat usage." He is also very good at TvP in HotS, which widow mines and hellbat openings are seldom.
He is deathly efficient. No spamming, drops are sent with a few clicks and his greedy play make him ultra scary for all races :D.
OT: I hope the Redbull marketing realizes that the low viewer count comes from the HSC overlap and not from the unpopularity of SC2.
On June 24 2013 19:44 DieStar wrote: Demuslim i believed he can do top2, best stream ever
His tvt isnt good enough yet, tvp tvz are solid. I saw him against Byun, now Sound. He is solid but tvt against toptier terrans is harder for him atm. Needs some more practise Time will tell.
On June 24 2013 19:00 Wintex wrote: Anyone who loves a good TvZ should watch the finals. Full of entertaining games!
oh you didn't disappoint sick control by golden. but red bull has only loaded up 3 games on their yt channel, can i find the last 3 games somewhere? :o
Yeah what a match! I really rooted for Golden since he showed lots of personality in the analysis for another player. That's great, I don't like the too cool for school attitude. Since most sc2 players are spotty it just seems silly to act like the terminator all the time. And he had 40/40 chance to win so he beat the odds!!!!!
And I want the rest of the vods. I'm in the UK and the US guys have had all day to get the vods up. Get it done, we don't all live in the US and many people are trying to experience the finals for the first time!!! (I haven't finished them and the redbull page spoils who won looooong before I can click on the double set of links to get to the vods page to find they're even missing!) squark?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H4afxc7.png)
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PuMa in NASL![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/iC0cbU1XIJtxq.jpg)
