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[Up/Down] Group B WCS KR 2013 Season 2 - Page 26

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9174 Posts
May 29 2013 11:47 GMT
#501
On May 29 2013 20:38 eGoRama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


So?

Who cares who is better and who is not, can ppl just enjoy the games?

Starcraft is literally about deciding who is better via games... What do you think aligulac is all about?? Funny seeing so many esf'ers up in arms over one ridiculous troll post.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
May 29 2013 11:48 GMT
#502
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


what can I say, soon you will have a TL admin tell you what's wrong
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 11:49:16
May 29 2013 11:48 GMT
#503
On May 29 2013 20:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?


If you make opterown ragequit TL for a week again I'm gonna spam the hell out of some admin to get you a red card.

^ LOL

i'm not on tl very often lately anyway haha other than popping in to check results/premaking LRs, too busy

On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?

contribute something, haha. that is amusing, indeed
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
eGoRama
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria1542 Posts
May 29 2013 11:49 GMT
#504
On May 29 2013 20:46 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:38 eGoRama wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


So?

Who cares who is better and who is not, can ppl just enjoy the games?


The thing is that some Kespa > ESF gloaters are big BW fans who are apparently still butthurt that the BW scene ended, largely in part due to SC2, so their way of coping is to pollute threads with their baiting (this isn't unfounded speculation on my part - I've seen some posters explicitly and unabashedly admit that they're doing this to piss people off). To be clear, I don't mean in any way to generalize and accuse all BW fans of doing this because most of them are cool, reasonable people, but there are certainly a few bad apples.


Yep I know that, I am just amused how no matter what is going on, instead of talking about the games/strategy/plays the topic is changed to Kespa vs eSF bullcrap. Like every time
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2613 Posts
May 29 2013 11:49 GMT
#505
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


operown contributes to the Sc2 community more than you will ever know so please show some respect here!
and yes, your posts are hilarious to read XD
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
silentsaint
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany540 Posts
May 29 2013 11:49 GMT
#506
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


Do you try to top chisuris contradictions?
It really tied the room together.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 29 2013 11:49 GMT
#507
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


He pre-made the thread you're currently abusing
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Acer1791
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany182 Posts
May 29 2013 11:50 GMT
#508
On May 29 2013 20:45 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:43 Acer1791 wrote:
nah dont get me wrong guys, i really dont care where the player is from (didnt follow bw at all, so no real connection to kespa first) but there was a lot of hype around these guys and it build up over the last seasons of gsl with more and more kespa guys in it. now we have 2 seasons in a row a kespa guy winning gsl and it doesnt seem unlikely that this trend will continue.
i just wanted to say that the kespa training methods seem to be the better ones and esf has to step it up.

You know, if you don't like the game, you can just not watch it. You can get a ticket and watch only those games you want to at any time you want.

...or hating is awesome.


did you even read what i wrote? i guess not..
sry bro but you are the hater here i think. i just stated some facts, if you dont want to see them, ok not my fault here.
my favorite players are from esf (life, mvp, leenock, maru), but that doesnt mean i have to hate kespa. they did a great job of catching up and now they are even a little bit ahead, if you think if someones says that he is hating on everything else, youre the one who is hating after all
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
May 29 2013 11:50 GMT
#509
I admit I'm very biased towards Kespa. I just want to point out cheering for one does not automatically mean hating the other.

On May 29 2013 20:45 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:43 Acer1791 wrote:
nah dont get me wrong guys, i really dont care where the player is from (didnt follow bw at all, so no real connection to kespa first) but there was a lot of hype around these guys and it build up over the last seasons of gsl with more and more kespa guys in it. now we have 2 seasons in a row a kespa guy winning gsl and it doesnt seem unlikely that this trend will continue.
i just wanted to say that the kespa training methods seem to be the better ones and esf has to step it up.

You know, if you don't like the game, you can just not watch it. You can get a ticket and watch only those games you want to at any time you want.

...or hating is awesome.

Where is the hate on the guy you quoted anyway?
"Start yo" -FlaSh
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 29 2013 11:51 GMT
#510
gg fantasy ^^
The heart's eternal vow
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
May 29 2013 11:51 GMT
#511
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?

First, he did not call you any names.

Second, you claim you do not bait, yet you say that being in U/D is the peak of performance for eSF players. Holy generalization and stupidity in that statement.

Seriously, just stop it and do not embarrass yourself any further.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 29 2013 11:51 GMT
#512
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


lol

please stop posting, you're an embarrassment to the TL BW community. at least the other people who do this made second accounts to do it on.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 11:53:09
May 29 2013 11:52 GMT
#513
On May 29 2013 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


He pre-made the thread you're currently abusing

I mean contributing to the discussions that are going instead of talking like a smartass. If he think I'm wrong he can point out. I'm right here to learn.

What he does to this thread or even TL is irrelevant if in this case he is trolling. Say something meaningful or say nothing if you don't have one.
eGoRama
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 11:52:49
May 29 2013 11:52 GMT
#514
On May 29 2013 20:47 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:38 eGoRama wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


So?

Who cares who is better and who is not, can ppl just enjoy the games?

Starcraft is literally about deciding who is better via games... What do you think aligulac is all about?? Funny seeing so many esf'ers up in arms over one ridiculous troll post.


What?! First of all I am not esf-er or whatever you call them. Second - You can talk about so many things that invovle the game and why certain person won, not jumping on retarded topic: this group is better and shits on the other, right?
silentsaint
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany540 Posts
May 29 2013 11:52 GMT
#515
On May 29 2013 20:47 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:38 eGoRama wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


So?

Who cares who is better and who is not, can ppl just enjoy the games?

Starcraft is literally about deciding who is better via games... What do you think aligulac is all about?? Funny seeing so many esf'ers up in arms over one ridiculous troll post.


By claiming esf-lers (which not really exist) are up in arms over what ever could be called baiting as well
It really tied the room together.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 11:53:21
May 29 2013 11:52 GMT
#516
On May 29 2013 20:50 Acer1791 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:45 DidYuhim wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:43 Acer1791 wrote:
nah dont get me wrong guys, i really dont care where the player is from (didnt follow bw at all, so no real connection to kespa first) but there was a lot of hype around these guys and it build up over the last seasons of gsl with more and more kespa guys in it. now we have 2 seasons in a row a kespa guy winning gsl and it doesnt seem unlikely that this trend will continue.
i just wanted to say that the kespa training methods seem to be the better ones and esf has to step it up.

You know, if you don't like the game, you can just not watch it. You can get a ticket and watch only those games you want to at any time you want.

...or hating is awesome.


did you even read what i wrote? i guess not..
sry bro but you are the hater here i think. i just stated some facts, if you dont want to see them, ok not my fault here.
my favorite players are from esf (life, mvp, leenock, maru), but that doesnt mean i have to hate kespa. they did a great job of catching up and now they are even a little bit ahead, if you think if someones says that he is hating on everything else, youre the one who is hating after all

i think he quoted the wrong post, it doesn't make sense

and it's telling that there exists evidence of esf fans not hating kespa while there are some diehard fans of kespa who hate esf

On May 29 2013 20:50 NicksonReyes wrote:
I admit I'm very biased towards Kespa. I just want to point out cheering for one does not automatically mean hating the other.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:45 DidYuhim wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:43 Acer1791 wrote:
nah dont get me wrong guys, i really dont care where the player is from (didnt follow bw at all, so no real connection to kespa first) but there was a lot of hype around these guys and it build up over the last seasons of gsl with more and more kespa guys in it. now we have 2 seasons in a row a kespa guy winning gsl and it doesnt seem unlikely that this trend will continue.
i just wanted to say that the kespa training methods seem to be the better ones and esf has to step it up.

You know, if you don't like the game, you can just not watch it. You can get a ticket and watch only those games you want to at any time you want.

...or hating is awesome.

Where is the hate on the guy you quoted anyway?

of course, and i have no beef with that. you'll note that i (and others) mainly respond to trolls/baiters anyway and not people who are just happy for their favourite players

On May 29 2013 20:52 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


He pre-made the thread you're currently abusing

I mean contributing to the discussion that are going instead of talking like a smartass. If he think I'm wrong he can point out. I'm right here to learn.

What he does to this thread or even TL is irrelevant if in this case he is trolling. Say something meaningful or say nothing if you don't have one.

it only gets better!
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
May 29 2013 11:52 GMT
#517
On May 29 2013 20:48 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


what can I say, soon you will have a TL admin tell you what's wrong


There may be something wrong with his post but he's right. Kespa is the best and the gap will just keep getting bigger. That was of course inevitable and obvious to us non-newbies.

User was warned for this post
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 11:54:59
May 29 2013 11:53 GMT
#518
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


You know, it's not effective trolling if it's that obvious xD

On May 29 2013 20:52 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:48 gobbledydook wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


what can I say, soon you will have a TL admin tell you what's wrong


There may be something wrong with his post but he's right. Kespa is the best and the gap will just keep getting bigger. That was of course inevitable and obvious to us non-newbies.


Oh god, it's you again. There's something to be said about how consistently you're able to sound like an elitist ass. It's almost impressive. "us non-newbies" hahaha
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2613 Posts
May 29 2013 11:53 GMT
#519
On May 29 2013 20:52 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:47 chisuri wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:44 opterown wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote:
OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll.
About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?

please keep going, you amuse me greatly

Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?


He pre-made the thread you're currently abusing

I mean contributing to the discussion that are going instead of talking like a smartass. If he think I'm wrong he can point out. I'm right here to learn.

What he does to this thread or even TL is irrelevant if in this case he is trolling. Say something meaningful or say nothing if you don't have one.


haha XD
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9174 Posts
May 29 2013 11:53 GMT
#520
On May 29 2013 20:49 eGoRama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 20:46 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:38 eGoRama wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:36 Acer1791 wrote:
ok his post is strongly biased, but lets be honest, kespa players seem to be overall the better ones right now.
there are a few top esf players who are on par maybe, but in generell kespa > esf ( i think everyone can agree on that)


So?

Who cares who is better and who is not, can ppl just enjoy the games?


The thing is that some Kespa > ESF gloaters are big BW fans who are apparently still butthurt that the BW scene ended, largely in part due to SC2, so their way of coping is to pollute threads with their baiting (this isn't unfounded speculation on my part - I've seen some posters explicitly and unabashedly admit that they're doing this to piss people off). To be clear, I don't mean in any way to generalize and accuse all BW fans of doing this because most of them are cool, reasonable people, but there are certainly a few bad apples.


Yep I know that, I am just amused how no matter what is going on, instead of talking about the games/strategy/plays the topic is changed to Kespa vs eSF bullcrap. Like every time

For how much you and others say you hate this bullcrap, you and your fellow anti-kespa vs esf'ers have produced well over half the Kespa vs ESF related posts in this thread. Ignore the odd Kespa!!!! and stop drowning this thread in more of the shit you're complaining about.
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